Hidden Lurker Question

Hello, just some questions about Hidden Lurker (HL). 1. Can you play two Hidden Lurker (sequentially) against the same minion in the same round ? 2. If the HLed minion has a gun, can he maneuver to long with the inherent maneuver of the gun, even when he has no strike (as the HL states) ? 3. If player 1 HLed with minion B minion C of player 2, can player 2 play a fast reaction with minion D against minion A, who made the action which initiated the whole mess ? Bye Ralf ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Gravel and glass on the bottom of my feet I bruised my heels on the swollen street We were girls in bars, boys on the town Bumping like a pinball off a careless crowd" Indigo Girls, "Joking" ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralf Lammert E-Mail : lam...@uni-paderborn.de

lam...@uni-paderborn.de (Ralf Lammert) writes: >1. Can you play two Hidden Lurker (sequentially) against >the same minion in the same round ? No. Hidden Lurker can only be played after the *acting* minion has just completed combat (Jyhad card text). When WotC "fixed" the action-symbol misprint on the Jyhad version, they reqorded the card in an attempt to clarify it. They succeeded only in breaking the card in a multitude of new ways, and have diligently issued errata to make the new card work as the Jyhad version would have if the Jyhad version had been an action modifier. So, even though the new wording doesn't restrict Lurker to only one per action, the parallel is still restricted in the new Fast Reaction, and the original (correct) card text from Jyhad was so restricted. Therefore, since WotC seems to want the card to function properly, assume that all the necessary errata exists to make it work just like the Jyhad Version with the action modifier symbol. >2. If the HLed minion has a gun, can he maneuver to long >with the inherent maneuver of the gun, even when he >has no strike (as the HL states) ? Not on the first round (since using the maneuver means choosing a strike, and he doesn't have a strike to choose). >3. If player 1 HLed with minion B minion C of player 2, >can player 2 play a fast reaction with minion D against >minion A, who made the action which initiated the whole >mess ? Hurm. Unknown. By card text (VtES), no - but D could play Fast Reaction to enter combat with B. By card text (Jyhad), yes, although that was certainly not the intent. To clear all the air on this, I'd suggest tossing in a little ruling/clarification (house rule) that: If combat occurs and one of the combatants is neither the acting minion nor the blocking minion (and the action had been blocked), then both the acting minion and the blocking minion are no longer the acting minion and the blocking minion, respectively. That is, the acting minion is only the acting minion during the action and the block-induced combat (if any). And the blocking minion is only the blocking minion during the block and the block-induced combat. This would eliminate the confusion and restore the intent of the cards implicitly, without undoing rulings on Psyche-FormMist, BumRush-FormMist, etc. Then the answer to your question would be: "No, Hidden Lurker would pre-empt the opportunity to play Fast Reaction." Discussion? -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | He who laughs last http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | thinks slowest Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

>just some questions about Hidden Lurker (HL). >1. Can you play two Hidden Lurker (sequentially) against >the same minion in the same round ? No, 1. Hidden lurker may be played to enter combat with a blocking minion that just completed combat with a acting minion. A second Hidden Lurker may not be played since you dont enter combat with a blocking minion. (Hidden lurker may not be blocked). 2. Hidden Lurker is played as a Action modifier, and you may not play more than one action modifier of the same type after an action. >2. If the HLed minion has a gun, can he maneuver to long >with the inherent maneuver of the gun, even when he >has no strike (as the HL states) ? If you cant use the strike, then you cant use the manuver. Same goes with all strikes and weapons including Manouvers and strikes. Not that if your strike get cancelled after the manouver is used, then you have no strike. >3. If player 1 HLed with minion B minion C of player 2, >can player 2 play a fast reaction with minion D against >minion A, who made the action which initiated the whole >mess ? Yes he can. I belive that the Hidden Lurker goes first since the Hidden Lurker is done on the acting vampires side. It doesnt matter thou, since the Fast Reacting vampire dont beat up the Hidden Lurker.

staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se (staffan.bengtsson) writes: >2. Hidden Lurker is played as a Action modifier, and you may not play >more than one action modifier of the same type after an action. The limit is one of a given action modifier per action per minion. So, this wouldn't restrict the play of multiple Lurkers by multiple vampire (a la superior Cloak the Gathering). [ quoted text not captured ]

On 10-Feb-97, lam...@uni-paderborn.de (Ralf Lammert) writes: >1. Can you play two Hidden Lurker (sequentially) against >the same minion in the same round ? No. Hidden Lurker can only be played after the *acting* minion has just completed combat (Jyhad card text). The text of Hidden Lurker (with all errata/rulings built in) is (*): Hidden Lurker. Action Modifier. Obfuscate. Usable only by an untapped vampire other than the acting minion after the acting minion is blocked and combat is over. Tap this vampire. This vampire now enters combat with the blocking minion. The first round of combat, the blocking minion cannot use any strikes. Superior: As above, but with an optional press. >3. If player 1 HLed with minion B minion C of player 2, >can player 2 play a fast reaction with minion D against >minion A, who made the action which initiated the whole >mess ? No, Hidden Lurker would pre-empt the opportunity to play Fast Reaction. (Fast Reaction must be played as soon as the combat involving the acting minion is ended - but the acting Methuselah gets first chance at playing cards, so Hidden Lurker takes precedence.) -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@regency.wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) wrote: : Hidden Lurker. Action Modifier. Obfuscate. : Usable only by an untapped vampire other than the acting minion after the : acting minion is blocked and combat is over. Tap this vampire. This : vampire now enters combat with the blocking minion. The first round of : combat, the blocking minion cannot use any strikes. : Superior: As above, but with an optional press. By this ruling based text, Hidden Lurker could not be used after a successful Bum's Rush, however by the original card text, a successful block was not necessary to HL. Is this the case, or can two minions, in effect, jump in on the same bum's rush? -Wallpaper Paste for all those useless cards

[ quoted text not captured ] By the original (Jyhad) card text, it required a block. This is still the case, since Rules Team has been issuing errata toward making the new card (with card text stemming from the fact that it was an action) function "properly" as an action modifier and mirror its cousin, Fast Reaction (which also requires a block). [ quoted text not captured ]