[LSJ]: giving up titles possible?

A question from a newbie, it's nowhere in the rulebook so I guess the answer is no... but I'll ask anyway. Is it possible for a titled vampire to willingly give up his or her title even though it's not contested or replaced by another title? Would be a perfectly normal thing to do in life.. i mean undeadness. "I'm fed up with all the hassle of being prince, I'm off to Florida. Find another moron to rule you"

"Teeka" <teeka_...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht news:26a7375f.03091...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] I don't think you can. A related question: I have Ulugh Beg (or Anastazidi) in play, but REALLY want another of my Tremere to be justicar. Can I call the Tremere Justicar vote and target another of my vamps, even though I already have the Justicar in play? Or is this covered by the self-contestation rule. If yes, how exactly, since I never contest anything before the vote has passed, which is not something that I have full control of. Can I just have the already in play Justicar forfeit his title and appoint a new one as Justicar. If so, can the original Justicar vote in the referendum. The same question goes of course for a Praxis Seizure of a prince title you already control.

Teeka wrote: > A question from a newbie, it's nowhere in the rulebook so I guess the > answer is no... but I'll ask anyway. > > Is it possible for a titled vampire to willingly give up his or her > title even though it's not contested or replaced by another title? No. Neither can a vampire arbitrarily burn blood, nor can a Methuselah arbitrarily burn pool, even if doing so would be advantageous. > Would be a perfectly normal thing to do in life.. i mean undeadness. > "I'm fed up with all the hassle of being prince, I'm off to Florida. > Find another moron to rule you" RPG/backstory isn't a firm foundation for rulings. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On 11 Sep 2003 16:54:57 -0700, teeka_...@hotmail.com (Teeka) wrote: >A question from a newbie, it's nowhere in the rulebook so I guess the >answer is no... but I'll ask anyway. >Is it possible for a titled vampire to willingly give up his or her >title even though it's not contested or replaced by another title? Not without changing to a sect that is inappropriate for their title. >Would be a perfectly normal thing to do in life.. i mean undeadness. >"I'm fed up with all the hassle of being prince, I'm off to Florida. >Find another moron to rule you" There is no abdicate action currently in the game. The closest you can get is Clan Impersonation to a clan in the opposing sect. See the Anarchs rulebook or the online rulebook here: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/ Section 10 for the following quote. "If a vampire with a title changes clans or sects to a clan or sect inappropriate for his title, he loses the benefit of the title until his clan or sect changes appropriately. If he receives a new title, or if his title is contested (see Contested Titles, sec. 4.2), he immediately yields the old title. " This is the only way you can choose to lose a title as an action. Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

Ulugh Beg II wrote: > I have Ulugh Beg (or Anastazidi) in play, but REALLY want another of my > Tremere to be justicar. > Can I call the Tremere Justicar vote and target another of my vamps, > even though I already have the Justicar in play? Yes. > Or is this covered by the self-contestation rule. If yes, how exactly, > since I never contest anything before the vote has passed, which is not > something that I have full control of. See the rules on contesting. > Can I just have the already in play Justicar forfeit his title and > appoint a new one as Justicar. If so, can the original Justicar vote in > the referendum. The current Justicar can, if ready, cast his votes. > The same question goes of course for a Praxis Seizure of a prince title > you already control. Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]

> > > Would be a perfectly normal thing to do in life.. i mean undeadness. > > "I'm fed up with all the hassle of being prince, I'm off to Florida. > > Find another moron to rule you" > > RPG/backstory isn't a firm foundation for rulings. If it was the Sabbat would be totally different in the card game. There really is nothing that approximates the Sabbat pack element. Oh sure there's a Pack Tactics card and a Vaulderie. But it just isn't the same as a pack of Sabbat attacking a Camarilla elder. But it works nonetheless.

teeka_...@hotmail.com (Teeka) writes: > Is it possible for a titled vampire to willingly give up his or her > title even though it's not contested or replaced by another title? > Would be a perfectly normal thing to do in life.. i mean undeadness. > "I'm fed up with all the hassle of being prince, I'm off to Florida. > Find another moron to rule you" A Camarille Prince *can* do that. He just needs to play a card: Command of the Harpies. He can target himself and try to pass the referendum. A Sabbat Arcbishop can bugger his responsibilities using Excommunication. And any Sabbat or Camarilla titled vampire or an Anarch Baron can give up his title using Out of the Frying Pan and/or Into the Fire, as appropriate. But that could be too exessive for the RPG element you're looking for. -- hg@ It's better to open your mouth and appear stupid, iki.fi than to hold it shut and keep thinking you know it all.

> A Camarille Prince *can* do that. He just needs to play a card: Command of > the Harpies. He can target himself and try to pass the referendum. > > A Sabbat Arcbishop can bugger his responsibilities using Excommunication. > > And any Sabbat or Camarilla titled vampire or an Anarch Baron can give up his > title using Out of the Frying Pan and/or Into the Fire, as appropriate. But > that could be too exessive for the RPG element you're looking for. When a titled vampire changes sects, they do not lose their title. They simply lose the ability to use their title, i.e. The baron joins the Camarilla with a Writ of Acceptance, then the writ gets stolen,destroyed etc. He is then considered independent, regains the use of his 'title' and has 2 votes, David

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:31:16 -0400, "Metropolis" <do...@umich.edu> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] As far as i can tell from reading section 10 of the rulebook, independant vampires' titles are not tied to their sect, and they still have their use of the 'one/two votes' even when in the Camarilla or Sabbat. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

salem wrote: > As far as i can tell from reading section 10 of the rulebook, > independant vampires' titles are not tied to their sect, and they > still have their use of the 'one/two votes' even when in the Camarilla > or Sabbat. Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]