Harbingers of Skulls Preview Is Up

It just got there. I'd been refreshing the page all day... :) http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/BLhos.html -- Robert Goudie Chairman, V:EKN rob...@vtesinla.org

> It just got there. I'd been refreshing the page all day... :) It's because you mixed up : BLOODlines and DEADlines (which is close when speaking of vampires...). ;-) [ quoted text not captured ]

"Robert Goudie" <rrgo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Yb1B7.3050$AQ6.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>... > It just got there. I'd been refreshing the page all day... :) Yeah... no kidding, I've been doing the same... > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/BLhos.html And for those too lazy to go to the website: *begin Quote* The Harbingers of Skulls cards mix well with the Ventrue anititribu and the Nagaraja. They are even strong enough, if maybe a bit too costly in terms of capacity, to be played in a single-clan deck (although their small number would mean having multiples of each in the crypt). <Mix well with !Ventrue eh? Ok... a few !Ventrue have Aus, if I'm not mistaken... but how many of them have Necromancy? I wonder if we'll see an 11 cap HoS...> Egothha Harbinger of Skulls. 7 capacity obf AUS FOR NEC Sabbat: During your untap phase, if Egothha is ready, your prey burns the top card of his or her library. If that card is a master card, Egothha gains 1 blood. <Exciting... who else has Nec and Obf? There's a few... Notice also his plethora of abilities... nice to see a guy with all 3 in clan disc. at sup. another one and a nifty ability> As Egothha's special ability indicates, the Harbingers of Skulls have a tendency toward resource denial (like library destruction). <Maybe combined with some Nos. library denial? Hmm... sharing none of the clan abilities, either way... hmm...> *End Quote* Out of here. ~Screaming Vermillian

vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote in message news:<f987c6cd.01102...@posting.google.com>... > "Robert Goudie" <rrgo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Yb1B7.3050$AQ6.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>... > > It just got there. I'd been refreshing the page all day... :) > > Yeah... no kidding, I've been doing the same... > > > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/BLhos.html > This time the timezone didn't help us! (snip description of HoS) > Notice also his plethora of abilities... nice to see a guy with all 3 > in clan disc. at sup. another one and a nifty ability> Don't you think that necromancy is becoming very strong compared with the other indipendent discipline? Almost noone outside the respective clan has Serpentis or chemistry or quietus, that means few or no choice in deck building when choosing disciplines. Necromancy is becoming as common as one of the base discipline. Anyone knows or suspect of a bloodline whit serpentis-auspex? Andrea

>Don't you think that necromancy is becoming very strong compared with >the other indipendent discipline? >Almost noone outside the respective clan has Serpentis or chemistry or >quietus, that means few or no choice in deck building when choosing >disciplines. >Necromancy is becoming as common as one of the base discipline. >Anyone knows or suspect of a bloodline whit serpentis-auspex? I definitely agree. Necromancy and the Giovanni (which is already possible the best Independent) will perhaps be above and beyond the other Indies after Bloodlines. And all for no better reason than "that's what the RPG is like" IMHO. Halcyan 2

Andrea wrote: >Don't you think that necromancy is becoming very strong compared with >the other indipendent discipline? Well. It is more widespread, though that does not necessarily make it any stronger than, say, auspex. I rather like it this way, since Necromancy is (to me) more interesting than those other disciplines, thematically. >Almost noone outside the respective clan has Serpentis or chemistry or >quietus, that means few or no choice in deck building when choosing >disciplines. >Necromancy is becoming as common as one of the base discipline. >Anyone knows or suspect of a bloodline whit serpentis-auspex? No, but there is an entire subclan with the disciplines of for, pre, ser. They are called the Aabt Kindred, and there are as many of them as you wish. Ravnos are supposed to have a sub-clan called the Phuri-Dae, or some such. They have Aus instead of For, but I don't know that much about them. They might be included in the game in some future date. -- John Whelan.

Did you notice something ? Having Egothha as your predator is a Giovanni's dreams come true !!! As you play with your ash heap, and he puts many new cards in it, he gives you more opportunities to play interesting cards, even if you have to take one action for it. For all the non-Nec clans, though, he can be a nightmare... I find the "resource denial" theme to be quite interesting, and hope (but I trust Steve et all...) the other HoS will go the same direction with interesting variations... > Well. It is more widespread, though that does not necessarily make it any > stronger than, say, auspex. Speaking of which, I still don't knwo how to use all these guys with Aus / Nec... > I rather like it this way, since Necromancy is (to me) more interesting than > those other disciplines, thematically. > >Necromancy is becoming as common as one of the base discipline. Good (?). And now, for the first time, a Sabbat Clan has it !! Do you think there will be new, maybe more aggressive, Nec cards, for the 2 (3 ?) new paths of the Bloodlines ? > No, but there is an entire subclan with the disciplines of for, pre, ser. They > are called the Aabt Kindred, and there are as many of them as you wish. There will be the Baali with Obf / Pre, so maybe they don't have Ser but they'll mix quite well with the FoS. > Ravnos are supposed to have a sub-clan called the Phuri-Dae, or some such. > They have Aus instead of For, but I don't know that much about them. They > might be included in the game in some future date. I doubt it, or maybe as an ally. If so, they would have been in Bloodlines...

(sbip) > > Ravnos are supposed to have a sub-clan called the Phuri-Dae, or some such. > > They have Aus instead of For, but I don't know that much about them. They > > might be included in the game in some future date. > > I doubt it, or maybe as an ally. If so, they would have been in > Bloodlines... In fact, some Ravnos we already know master inferior auspex (about 5 of them including Givra, Gitane, spider Killer, Tereza...) It's enough to build a ravnos auspex deck with Revelation, Psychic projection, Fast Reaction... inferior Aus is quite weak but yu can still work it out. reyda

[ quoted text not captured ] And Potence is more common than Obtenebration (because of the RPG). So long as the cards are balanced, though, that should be just fine. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>Don't you think that necromancy is becoming very strong compared with >the other indipendent discipline? >Almost noone outside the respective clan has Serpentis or chemistry or >quietus, that means few or no choice in deck building when choosing >disciplines. >Necromancy is becoming as common as one of the base discipline. >Anyone knows or suspect of a bloodline whit serpentis-auspex? It's possible that Serpents of Light (!FoS), !Assamites, and !Ravnos will someday make their way into the CCG. That would give quantity if, possibly, not significantly more variety besides bringing in far more Sabbat users of the same disciplines. I was thinking generally about some of the rarer disciplines (CCGwise). To not penalize building around one of the disciplines, one might expect them to be more flexible than the common disciplines. Obtenebration, Vicissitude both fit this model. Dementation, OTOH, doesn't. Strong discipline but narrow, with hardly any combat options. Neither does Dominate, which it has similarities to, but Dominate is just better and is so much easier to mix with other disciplines. Yet, looks like Malks will start getting Dementation, so Dem may either move out of the hard to find group or may get some new stuff to make it more flexible.

>> Ravnos are supposed to have a sub-clan called the Phuri-Dae, or some such. >> They have Aus instead of For, but I don't know that much about them. They >> might be included in the game in some future date. > >I doubt it, or maybe as an ally. If so, they would have been in >Bloodlines... ? Why would they be in bloodlines? They are a sub-clan, like the "city gangrel". All one need do to introduce them is print one or two "atypical" Ravnos with Aus instead of For. It does not require much fanfare. As someone else pointed out, we already have enough auspex Ravnos to make an auspex Ravnos deck semi viable. The Ravnos already have Tsigane, who fits the Phuri-Dae discipline profile. A single 6-cap vampire with ANI AUS CHI would be a significant boost to Auspex Ravnos decks.. For all we know, such a vampire MIGHT be included in bloodlines, in keeping with the final nights tradition of 1 vampire for each clan. .

> Ravnos are supposed to have a sub-clan called the Phuri-Dae, or some such. > They have Aus instead of For, but I don't know that much about them. They > might be included in the game in some future date. Actually, some are already in the game. As normal Ravnos. Look at Tsigane. There's a second lineage of Ravnos, the Urmen, that have Presence instead of Animalism. They're also included -- check out Ankla Hotep. Fanboy, harbinger of useless Ravnos trivia

texas...@yahoo.com (The Fanboy) wrote in message > There's a second lineage of Ravnos, the Urmen, that have Presence > instead of Animalism. They're also included -- check out Ankla Hotep. Thanks. Never heard of them, and I like to know all the atypical sub-clans. But I never heard of the Aabt Kindred either, until the card was released. Are they mentioned in any sourcebooks? > Fanboy, harbinger of useless Ravnos trivia Hmm. As a Harbinger of useless Trivia, would you like to help me complete or correct my list of atypical subclans? Here's my list. The ones in quotes are not derived from WW Background materials in any direct way but are simply names for groups that can be observed in the card game. Cel Obf Qui Assamite (Std.) Aus Cel Qui (?) Assamite Vizier Aus Cel Tha (?) Assamite Sorcerors Cel Pot Pre Brujah (Std.) Cel Dom Pot "Euro Brujah" ANI FOR PRO Gangrel (Std.) CEL OBF PRO City Gangrel (Sabbat) ANI OBF PRO Greek Gangrel Dom Nec Pot Giovanni (Std.) Aus For Nec Harbingers Aus Dom Nec Nagaraja Dom Obt Pot Lasombra Aus Dem Obf Malkavians (Std.) Aus Dom Obf Mnemosyne Malks Ani Obf Pot Nosferatu Ani Chi For Ravnos (Std.) Ani Aus Chi Phuri Dae Chi For Pre Urmen Obf Pre Ser Followers of Set (Std.) For Pre Ser "Aabt Kindred" Pot Pre Ser Warriors of Set Aus Cel Pre Toreador (Std.) Aus For Pre "Masochists" Aus Cel Pro "Sculptors" Aus Dom Tha Tremere (Std.) Aus Pre Tha Telyavelic Tremere Ani Aus Vic Tzimisce (Std.) Ani Aus Dom Old Tzimisce Ani Aus Tha Koldunic Tzimisce Ani Pot Vic Baratovich Tzimisce Dom For Pre Ventrue (Std.) Aus Dom For "Investors" (Sabbat) I also note that the only Sabbat Ravnos, currently, is an atypical with Pro instead of For. I wonder if this will be a trend, such that the Sabbat Ravnos will be a definable subgroup in game terms.

>> There's a second lineage of Ravnos, the Urmen, that have Presence >> instead of Animalism. They're also included -- check out Ankla Hotep. > >Thanks. Never heard of them, and I like to know all the atypical >sub-clans. But I never heard of the Aabt Kindred either, until the >card was released. Are they mentioned in any sourcebooks? Aabt Kindred are in the 2nd Edition book: Berlin By Night. Halcyan 2

> > Thanks. Never heard of them, and I like to know all the atypical > sub-clans. But I never heard of the Aabt Kindred either, until the > card was released. Are they mentioned in any sourcebooks? Aabbt Kindred are mentioned in Berlin by Night, appropriately enough, they are Nefertiti's guardians. John Bell

>Aabbt Kindred are mentioned in Berlin by Night, appropriately enough, >they are Nefertiti's guardians. Yup. They are Embraced snakes (fortunately, they later changed the rules to prevent Embracing animals). Nefertiti's a 4th gen Follower who's bent on taking control of Berlin by setting up a false "Caine." Unlike Kemintiri, Nefertiti is a "good" Follower of Set (as in she actively works to further the objectives of her clan). Ankla Hotep is like a 5th gen Ravnos. Nefertiti has a grudge against him because he seduced her and stole some stuff like a few thousand years ago (back when she was still mortal). Anyway, Ankla Hotep went into torpor when the Lusitania sunk. Nefertiti found him, and brainwashed him into believing he's Caine. And some Bane Mummy created some magical amulet to enhance Ankla's Chimerstry to Antediluvian levels to convince everyone else. Wilhelm Waldburg is also from that book (though he appears in DS). He's actually only Prince of *East* Berlin. His sire, Gustav something is Prince of West Berlin. (I guess that's where the contesting special comes from). He's actually much weaker in the RPG book though. Let's just hope that the new Cam base set prints new Justicars, and Karl Schrekt is the Tremere one! (Not that lame Anistaz di'Geb or whatever his name is). Halcyan 2

"John B. Whelan" <nys...@cs.com> wrote > Hmm. As a Harbinger of useless Trivia, would you like to help me > complete or correct my list of atypical subclans? Here's my list. > The ones in quotes are not derived from WW Background materials in any > direct way but are simply names for groups that can be observed in the > card game. There are many sub-clans not listed here though not all have a V:tES analog. I'll list what I remember FYI. I don't have my books here at work though so please forgive me if I am slighlty off. > Cel Obf Qui Assamite (Std.) > Aus Cel Qui (?) Assamite Vizier > Aus Cel Tha (?) Assamite Sorcerors Assamite Sorcerers have OBF QUI THA I believe. > Cel Pot Pre Brujah (Std.) > Cel Dom Pot "Euro Brujah" Euro-Brujah are a strictly V:tES phenomenon. In the RPG, I think the only distinction between Old World Brujah and their North American counterparts is age and attitude towards the Camarilla. Most European Brujah are old, respected and often Princes. I don't think DOM is a common fixture though IIRC. > ANI FOR PRO Gangrel (Std.) > CEL OBF PRO City Gangrel (Sabbat) > ANI OBF PRO Greek Gangrel There are Aquatic Gangrel who are by far the silliest clan subset I have ever seen. They live in the ocean and take on features of fish. The role-playing opportunities just bowl one over don't they? I believe the new Gangrel clanbook mentioned that the original Gangrel to land in North America took on OBF as a clan discipline though I can't recall what it replaced (almost certainly not PRO). Additionally, the Ahrimanes are considered a bloodline offshoot of the Gangrel clan. > Dom Nec Pot Giovanni (Std.) > Aus For Nec Harbingers > Aus Dom Nec Nagaraja Harbingers are not a subset of the Giovanni; in fact the rumour is that it may be the other way around :) The Cappadocians who were one of the original 13 clans was replaced from within by the Giovanni family. Some Cappadocians escaped the pogroms and it is rumoured that they eventually became the Harbingers, which explains why they are so pissed off. Nagaraja are not a subset of the Giovanni AFAIK. They are just an independent bloodline with no known progenitor clan. > Dom Obt Pot Lasombra The Kiasyd *are* a bloodline offshoot of the Lasombra. They came about as a result of an experiment with the blood of the Fae. I think Marconius was the name of the original progenitor of the Kiasyd... he used to be a Lasombra or something like that. Kiasyd have different disciplines based on which version of the RPG yoy check. The original bloodline had OBT, NEC and Mytherceria, which is a unique discipline to the Kiasyd. The 3rd edition of the RPG had their disciplines as: DOM, OBT and Mytherceria. I seem to recall AUS in some configuration but dfdon't quote me on that... > Obf Pre Ser Followers of Set (Std.) > For Pre Ser "Aabt Kindred" > Pot Pre Ser Warriors of Set There is a new offshoot of the Setites that are based in Central America. Their disciplines are OBF, PRE and PRO. Neither they or the Setites know that they share a common clan. > Ani Aus Vic Tzimisce (Std.) > Ani Aus Dom Old Tzimisce > Ani Aus Tha Koldunic Tzimisce > Ani Pot Vic Baratovich Tzimisce The THA that Koldunic practice is completely different from the standard THA. I'm not sure that it would qualify as the same discipline. Bratovich are vicious vicious vicious > Dom For Pre Ventrue (Std.) > Aus Dom For "Investors" (Sabbat) > > I also note that the only Sabbat Ravnos, currently, is an atypical > with Pro instead of For. I wonder if this will be a trend, such that > the Sabbat Ravnos will be a definable subgroup in game terms. Additionally, and possibly irrelevantly... The Daughters of Cacophany are thought to be a subset of either the Toreador or Malkavians. There is a reference to a wayward Toreador in one of the Dark Ages books which alludes to the creation of the DoC. The Salubri and Salubri Antitribu are basically the same clan but with different discipline subsets. The main clan became the 'Healers' with AUS FOR and Obeah while an offshoot became the 'Warriors' with AUS FOR and Valeren. The Warriors joined up with the Sabbat within the last 5 years which allows them to stop being hunted by the Tremere (Tremere diablerized Saulot and then hunted down the remainder of the clan) and start kicking their sorcerous butts instead. Of course, this also means that the Salubri are not the subset of the Tremere, but the other way around. The Samedi are probably an offshoot of the Cappadocians who also survived the Giovanni pogrom. For your purposes, I guess they would qualify as a subset of Giovanni as would the HoS. The Baali are a bit of a mystery but legend attributes them as being an offshoot of the Salubri, despite their similar discipline spread to the Setites and that whole 'We're eeeevil!' thing. The Blood Brothers have always confused me... I think they were created by either the !Tremere or Tzimisce but were created using !Brujah... maybe? Halcyan will know this. I seem to recall him correcting me on this issue. The Gargoyles were created by the Tremere in the Dark Ages to help defend themselves from every other clan, but mostly the Tzimisce. They were created as slaves from the Gangrel, Nosferatu and Tzimisce in some weirdo ritual. They eventually revolted against the Tremere and many joined the Sabbat though some still serve their Tremere masters. Hope this helps...

>The THA that Koldunic practice is completely different from the standard >THA. I'm not sure that it would qualify as the same discipline. Yeah. "Thaumaturgy" is a very strange term. Sometimes it is just used as a generic grouping for all sorts of blood magics, though usually it refers to the Tremere's magic based on a Hermetic paradigm. Technically, Koldunic Sorcery, Assamite Sorcery, and Setite Sorcery are considered separate disciplines. But since Assamite Sorcery is also just represented with THA (in Jyhad/VTES), Koldunic Sorcery will most likely be as well. >The Daughters of Cacophany are thought to be a subset of either the Toreador >or Malkavians. There is a reference to a wayward Toreador in one of the Dark >Ages books which alludes to the creation of the DoC. It's in the Toreador section in Libellus Sanguinous II. >The Salubri and Salubri Antitribu are basically the same clan but with >different discipline subsets. The main clan became the 'Healers' with AUS >FOR and Obeah while an offshoot became the 'Warriors' with AUS FOR and >Valeren. The Warriors joined up with the Sabbat within the last 5 years >which allows them to stop being hunted by the Tremere (Tremere diablerized >Saulot and then hunted down the remainder of the clan) and start kicking >their sorcerous butts instead. Not exactly true. There were originally two different lines (Healers and Warriors). But the Warriors didn't just up and join the Sabbat. The Tremere pogrom was quite thorough and in the end there were only like 7 Salubri. These Salubri rarely Embraced and when they did, they eventually had their childe diablerize them (so it kept the number around 7). However, one of these Salubri decided to go renegade. He Embraced a bunch of mortals and joined the Sabbat to fight the Tremere. >Of course, this also means that the Salubri are not the subset of the >Tremere, but the other way around. Yep, the Tremere are technically a subset bloodline of the Salubri. (Though the original Tremere clan members were true Caitiff). >The Baali are a bit of a mystery but legend attributes them as being an >offshoot of the Salubri, despite their similar discipline spread to the >Setites and that whole 'We're eeeevil!' thing. Yeah. The Salubri, Baali, and Tremere all closely related. >The Blood Brothers have always confused me... I think they were created by >either the !Tremere or Tzimisce but were created using !Brujah... maybe? >Halcyan will know this. I seem to recall him correcting me on this issue. I'm actually not a complete expert on the Blood Brothers. But I recall that they were originally created jointly by both the !Tremere and the Tzimisce. >The Gargoyles were created by the Tremere in the Dark Ages to help defend >themselves from every other clan, but mostly the Tzimisce. They were created >as slaves from the Gangrel, Nosferatu and Tzimisce in some weirdo ritual. >They eventually revolted against the Tremere and many joined the Sabbat >though some still serve their Tremere masters. Well, I wouldn't say that "many" joined the Sabbat. I'd be inclined to say that the majority who escaped are content to remain Independent. Also, originally Gargoyles were only created with the Tremere ritual (that the great Goratrix developed). Gargoyles can also Embrace (though it's an ugly, nasty process). But recent rumours indicate that Gargoyles can breed (eggs or something)? Halcyan 2