rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

New preview... Trifles

31 messages from 19 participants · 25 April 2003 – 28 April 2003
original thread on Google Groups

Jozxyqk

Introducing the concept of a "Trifle": A Master that gives you an additional MPA after you play it. Interesting that the description specifically mentions The Coven, which would be a subtle change to that card. Trifles are limited to one per turn, but the Coven didn't have any such restriction except for the no-self-contestation rule. The Trifle they show is not that interesting (another way to "Go Anarch"), but it shows the new look of Master cards, which is pretty. The whole card is the green marble of the sidebar, making new Masters definitely stand out. Next up: "3-way". Kinky.

Eryx

I also like the colour scheme. Very nice, but is that going to be for Master cards in general or just Master: Trifle cards? As for the Trifle ability, it allows you to play it as your master card and it gives you a free MPA afterwards? I'm not putting it down, but why was this done? Why not just leave it as a standard Master card? Curious is all. :) ------------------------- Love is what we're born with. Fear is what we learn here.

Curevei

>As for the Trifle ability, it allows you to play it as your master card and >it >gives you a free MPA afterwards? > >I'm not putting it down, but why was this done? Why not just leave it as a >standard Master card? Curious is all. With a rule that allows you to go anarch and an action card that untaps you that does the same, why would you ever waste a precious master slot on going anarch? The trifles are analogous (due to the very different draw mechanics) to cantrips in Magic. Take a weak effect but reduce some of its real cost.

XZealot

"Eryx" <colind...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030425102315...@mb-m15.aol.com... > I also like the colour scheme. Very nice, but is that going to be for Master > cards in general or just Master: Trifle cards? > > As for the Trifle ability, it allows you to play it as your master card and it > gives you a free MPA afterwards? > > I'm not putting it down, but why was this done? Why not just leave it as a > standard Master card? Curious is all. :) The obvious answer is because it is not worth a MPA. It does far less than Ascendance and therefore is not worth an MPA. -- Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

XZealot

"Curevei" <cur...@aol.commetal> wrote in message news:20030425122131...@mb-m23.aol.com... > >As for the Trifle ability, it allows you to play it as your master card and > >it > >gives you a free MPA afterwards? > > > >I'm not putting it down, but why was this done? Why not just leave it as a > >standard Master card? Curious is all. > > With a rule that allows you to go anarch and an action card that untaps you > that does the same, why would you ever waste a precious master slot on going > anarch? It is not so precious when it gives you a free MPA. It makes it quite nice > The trifles are analogous (due to the very different draw mechanics) to > cantrips in Magic. Take a weak effect but reduce some of its real cost. Just like Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones said,"That is a nice analogy, but like all analogies it is wrong." [ quoted text not captured ]

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

On 25 Apr 2003 14:23:15 GMT, colind...@aol.com (Eryx) wrote: >I also like the colour scheme. Very nice, but is that going to be for Master >cards in general or just Master: Trifle cards? I would guess that all the new master cards will have this color scheme, primarily due to the outcry post-Camarilla Edition. >As for the Trifle ability, it allows you to play it as your master card and it >gives you a free MPA afterwards? > >I'm not putting it down, but why was this done? Why not just leave it as a >standard Master card? Curious is all. :) I think Trifles are looking pretty cool. It should shake up some deck designs that have a tendency to choke on masters. Curious to see what other Trifle cards are heading our way. Do we currently have any other Trifle-type card in print other than "The Coven"? Nothing else comes to mind off hand. BernieTime Lansing, Michigan

Jozxyqk

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam wrote: > Do we currently have any other Trifle-type card in print other than "The > Coven"? Nothing else comes to mind off hand. Almost.. With a little clever wording, "The Parthenon: Master. unique trifle location. Tap to gain an extra Master Phase Action during your Master Phase. The Parthenon comes into play tapped." Of course, this would preclude playing the Parthenon and the Coven (or another trifle) in the same turn, so it's not the same. But it's close.

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] It would also allow you to "use" the Parthenon when you put it into play and contest it, something that is not currently possible. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Ped Xing

colind...@aol.com (Eryx) wrote in message news:<20030425102315...@mb-m15.aol.com>... > I also like the colour scheme. Very nice, but is that going to be for Master > cards in general or just Master: Trifle cards? > > As for the Trifle ability, it allows you to play it as your master card and it > gives you a free MPA afterwards? > > I'm not putting it down, but why was this done? Why not just leave it as a > standard Master card? Curious is all. :) What interests me is not so much the extra MPA, but the fact that there is now basically 3 ways to become an anarch: the new Garalics Legacy, the Go Anarch action card, and, as indicated in the preview of Go Anarch, an inate, non-card-based ability that will cost blood.. Is this too many? -Matt

James Coupe

In message <20030425122131...@mb-m23.aol.com>, Curevei <cur...@aol.commetal> writes: >>As for the Trifle ability, it allows you to play it as your master card and >>it >>gives you a free MPA afterwards? >> >>I'm not putting it down, but why was this done? Why not just leave it as a >>standard Master card? Curious is all. > >With a rule that allows you to go anarch and an action card that untaps you >that does the same, why would you ever waste a precious master slot on going >anarch? Actions can be blocked. If you're packing stealth for whatever you want to do, you might not be able to generate enough, reliably, to be comfortable getting lots of actions through. For instance, if you play Gangrel (picking a clan with some stealth, but not an Obfuscate clan), you might be able to scramble together enough stealth to get a Fee Stake done, but not be able to grab enough stealth to get a Go Anarch or a default action through as well. (Remembering that Earth Control and Rapid Change cost blood, too.) It puts you out of harm's way for Condemnation: Doomed, too. Additionally, the default action costs blood. This card doesn't. Keeping blood on minions can be very, very useful. We don't know what cards will exist that will make Anarchs useful. It's possible that there might be, say, some sort of mechanism somewhere that operates based on how many Anarchs you control.[0] Why would this matter? Well, if it is like that, you could play a Galaric's Legacy on an Infernal vampire, without having to untap them. Similarly, any vampire who has been Sensory Deprivated, or Pentexed, or something like that. There might even be Anarch cards for reactions. So a tapped Infernal vampire could become Anarch and still play them (if they exist). Kooky. Other obvious problem cases include Seeds of Corruption, taking more blood off you. If you look to the Brujah for good anarchs, you might still find good use for Brujah Debate. Tapped Brujah -> no actions to take. (Potentially.) Influence out Brujah -> Next turn + Trifle + Brujah Debate -> Tapped but Anarch-y Brujah. Then there's the metagame aspect. If people don't pack much in the way of Sudden Reversal (and there isn't a Temporis fiend on the table), and tend to pack Direct Intervention instead, Galaric's Legacy is a much safer bet. Conversely, if they *do* pack Sudden Reversal a lot, Go Anarch or the built-in action might be better. It might suck, it might not. Judge which one's best for your environment. [0] I'm thinking something akin to Power Structure, Consanguineous Boon etc, but for Anarchs, perhaps. Maybe some sort of rampaging riot they can inflict, or similar. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Lucky that my breasts are small and humble, EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 So you don't confuse them with mountains. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

Jozxyqk

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Jozxyqk wrote: >> berni...@attbi.comholdlespam wrote: >>>Do we currently have any other Trifle-type card in print other than "The >>>Coven"? Nothing else comes to mind off hand. >> >> Almost.. >> With a little clever wording, >> "The Parthenon: Master. unique trifle location. Tap to gain an extra >> Master Phase Action during your Master Phase. The Parthenon comes into >> play tapped." >> >> Of course, this would preclude playing the Parthenon and the Coven (or >> another trifle) in the same turn, so it's not the same. But it's close. > It would also allow you to "use" the Parthenon when you put it into play > and contest it, something that is not currently possible. In the Parthenon's case, I see how that changes things, but: If there were a hypothetical Trifle that were Unique, when it came into play to contest, you would never get that additional MPA? That part of the card would fizzle?

James Coupe

In message <51ecf271.03042...@posting.google.com>, Ped Xing <ped_...@hotmail.com> writes: >What interests me is not so much the extra MPA, but the fact that >there is now basically 3 ways to become an anarch: the new Garalics >Legacy, the Go Anarch action card, and, as indicated in the preview of >Go Anarch, an inate, non-card-based ability that will cost blood.. Is >this too many? Options are rarely inherently bad. Also: we've had various things for the Indies to change sect (Writ of Acceptance, the votes) over a couple of sets... shoving all the options into the one themed set seems reasonable. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Jozxyqk wrote: > If there were a hypothetical Trifle that were Unique, when it came into > play to contest, you would never get that additional MPA? That part of the > card would fizzle? You would get the MPA. [ quoted text not captured ]

vermillian

colind...@aol.com (Eryx) wrote in message news:<20030425102315...@mb-m15.aol.com>... > I also like the colour scheme. Very nice, but is that going to be for Master > cards in general or just Master: Trifle cards? > > As for the Trifle ability, it allows you to play it as your master card and it > gives you a free MPA afterwards? > > I'm not putting it down, but why was this done? Why not just leave it as a > standard Master card? Curious is all. :) Because its a subpar ability. Imagine a master card that gives a vampire you control of capacity lesser than 5 one blood? Not so hot. I'd want MY MPA back, too. ~SV

vermillian

Oh.. and they're also trying to stimulate usage of Anarch... giving you lots of ways to become one, that are relatively free, is a good way to do this, and makes them slightly more competative. ~SV

mgreen02

> It puts you out of harm's way for Condemnation: Doomed, too. > Ah yes. The Condemnation: Doomed metagame decision. Strong. mattgreen. -- Direct access to this group with http://web2news.com http://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Sacha

> > What interests me is not so much the extra MPA, but the fact that > there is now basically 3 ways to become an anarch: the new Garalics > Legacy, the Go Anarch action card, and, as indicated in the preview of > Go Anarch, an inate, non-card-based ability that will cost blood.. Is > this too many? I guess the point is to make it as accessable as possible since they haven't released any vampires that inherently have the Anarch status (and rumor says that there aren't any with this inherent status). Would it be prudent to release a set of cards that you generally can't use except under the more than rare occation? I figure it is important to have a number of options that aren't really crappy to allow you to use these cards. Hopefully they make it worthwhile to become an Anarch... The Fee states bit looks very interesting, but what else goes with it? Pc.

salem

ped_...@hotmail.com (Ped Xing) wrote in message news:<51ecf271.03042...@posting.google.com>... [sni] > What interests me is not so much the extra MPA, but the fact that > there is now basically 3 ways to become an anarch: the new Garalics > Legacy, the Go Anarch action card, and, as indicated in the preview of > Go Anarch, an inate, non-card-based ability that will cost blood.. Is > this too many? they probably could have done without the innate cardless action at this rate. however, i am assuming playtesters found that they really really needed to become anarchs to do whatever it is anarch decks do, and putting in enough go anarch and galaric's legacy meant the decks didn't do that 'thing'. but i still think trifle should have been a mechanic to stop the game for a cake break. :) salem.

Sten During

James Coupe wrote: > In message <51ecf271.03042...@posting.google.com>, Ped Xing > <ped_...@hotmail.com> writes: > >>What interests me is not so much the extra MPA, but the fact that >>there is now basically 3 ways to become an anarch: the new Garalics >>Legacy, the Go Anarch action card, and, as indicated in the preview of >>Go Anarch, an inate, non-card-based ability that will cost blood.. Is >>this too many? > > > Options are rarely inherently bad. > > Also: we've had various things for the Indies to change sect (Writ of > Acceptance, the votes) over a couple of sets... shoving all the options > into the one themed set seems reasonable. > And Sargon in an Enticement-deck definitely prefers Go Anarch to Garalics Legacy as you'd get the opportunity to do Enticement three times in a round. Hmm, Writ of Acceptance and Sargon *grin* Sten During

Jozxyqk

Sacha <paul...@hotmail.com> wrote: > I guess the point is to make it as accessable as possible since they > haven't released any vampires that inherently have the Anarch status > (and rumor says that there aren't any with this inherent status). ...except Jeremy MacNeil Advanced, who we've already seen?

James Coupe

In message <293af2cc.03042...@posting.google.com>, salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> writes: >however, i am assuming playtesters found that they really really >needed to become anarchs to do whatever it is anarch decks do, and >putting in enough go anarch and galaric's legacy meant the decks >didn't do that 'thing'. Well, not necessarily. It's quite possible that there are options there for the Anarchs set and friends, but also other options which tie in better with previous clans. The extra options afford a certain amount of creativity when it comes to, say, Sabbat clans from sets gone by, for instance. I'm fairly certain the idea is to go a different way to Bloodlines. A new set with kooky ideas, but at the same time allowing it to integrate seamlessly with previous cards, whereas Bloodlines is - intentionally - a bit of a bolt-on to previous clans/decks. [ quoted text not captured ]

Ashenbach

Hi All I have one question for you englishmen :) : What the hell means the word trifle? I suppose that it is not a WoD term like Camarilla or Röstchrek (i dindt ever known how i must write this word xD). If anyone knowns the meaning pliz post it. PD: Sorry if my english is poor, im spanish :) Happy Bleeding!

James Coupe

In message <8b63da3e.0304...@posting.google.com>, Ashenbach <Ashe...@iespana.es> writes: >What the hell means the word trifle? Besides the dessert, it's something that's a nothing, hardly any effort at all. That's why you get a free MPA. "2. a. Hence, A matter of little value or importance; ‘a thing of no moment’ (J.); a trivial, paltry, or insignificant affair. " (The OED.) [ quoted text not captured ]

Andrew S. Davidson

On 26 Apr 2003 02:51:01 -0700, Ashenbach wrote: >I have one question for you englishmen :) : >What the hell means the word trifle? It's "a dessert typically consisting of plain or sponge cake soaked in sherry, rum, or brandy and topped with layers of jam or jelly, custard, and whipped cream".

reyda

mgreen02 wrote: ||| It puts you out of harm's way for Condemnation: Doomed, too. ||| || || Ah yes. The Condemnation: Doomed metagame decision. Strong. =)

berni...@attbi.comholdlespam

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 13:23:43 +0100, Andrew S. Davidson <a...@csi.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] The other half of the definition from Dictionary.Com 1. Something of little importance or value. 2. A small amount; a jot 3. Dessert (as per above) Not to be confused with a Truffle which is similar but different. 1. Any of various fleshy, ascomycetous, edible fungi, chiefly of the genus Tuber, that grow underground on or near the roots of trees and are valued as a delicacy. 2. Any of various chocolate confections, especially one made of a mixture including chopped nuts, rolled into balls and covered with cocoa powder. I'm just glad we ended up with the term Trifle, instead of saaay "Jot". BernieTime "What's that you have in your hand? I have a Mansion and a Jot"

Sacha

Jozxyqk <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message news:<q1kqa.380966$Zo.88550@sccrnsc03>... [ quoted text not captured ] Macneil is inherhently an independent. You need to bring out both copies of him to make him an anarch. Pc.

Talonz

paul...@hotmail.com (Sacha) wrote in message news:<818c06e0.0304...@posting.google.com>... > I guess the point is to make it as accessable as possible since they > haven't released any vampires that inherently have the Anarch status > (and rumor says that there aren't any with this inherent status). > And that would be tantamout to producing a Cam set without any Cam vampires in it. Silly really. I do hope they put out a mix of anarchs, cams, sabaat, etc. T

Snapcase

In article <76d1d5ef.0304...@posting.google.com>, talonz51 @hotmail.com says... [ quoted text not captured ] Not to mention the Advanced Jeremy Mcneill is an anarch, so they obviously made at least _one_. -- -Snapcase

Hardy Range

Snapcase <shotgu...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.191648673...@news.optonline.net>... [ quoted text not captured ] Not exactly... The new, Advanced Jeremy MacNeill is just an independent vampire when you bring him out. He only becomes an Anarch (and a Baron) when you stack him with his other, Camarilla Edition self. And that, in my opinion, is not a really easy way to get the Anarch status onto a vamp... Hardy Range http://www.vekn.de

Eryx

>> Not to mention the Advanced Jeremy Mcneill is an anarch, so they >> obviously made at least _one_. Juggler (Brujah) is also on the preview list of vampires, and in the Chicago by Night books Juggler is an anarch. So far, we've seen two Brujah and the Gangrel. The Gangrel are just independent. As the rest of the clan vamps are named I'm sure we'll see more Anarch minions. ------------------------- Love is what we're born with. Fear is what we learn here.