What's the deal with all these locations in the new expansion set being
able to be burnt as D actions. What ever happened to just playing cards
like Rampage, Arson, or Unnatural Disaster? Just making a point because
I think it's pretty lame.
Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is?
Card reads.
Fortitude card
Prevent X+1 damage
Bold As above, with an optional press.
X is blood off the vampire.
This seems pretty lame to me.
Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what
it looks like.
Everett Littles Cal Poly SLO Business MIS
http://www.calpoly.edu/~elittles/park.html
Clan Ravnos Home Page
Everett Littles (elit...@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu) wrote:
: What's the deal with all these locations in the new expansion set being: able to be burnt as D actions. What ever happened to just playing cards
: like Rampage, Arson, or Unnatural Disaster? Just making a point because
: I think it's pretty lame.
If you notice a lot of the newer locations are more powerful than the
original set locales. Originals were KRCG,INFO HIGHWAY, HUNTING GROUNDS,
etc. Not a lot of very specific purpose cards. The Grand Temple of Set let
you take control of a fricking vamp from your prey for gosh's sake. I'd
say that that's pretty powerful for 2 or 3 pool(I think).
: Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is?: Card reads.
: Fortitude card
: Prevent X+1 damage
: Bold As above, with an optional press.
: X is blood off the vampire.
: This seems pretty lame to me.
Any other word you have to decribe disappointing cards? Think of HS this
way: An inferior fort. vamp can prevent torn signpost/fists o'
death/undead strength combo. I.E. if people play combos like this against
you than they end up playing two or three cards while you play only one to
counter them. It's not a heart-stopping card. But it is useful.
: Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what
: it looks like.
This is the BEST use. Hey you can even pull the fangs after they have
trieed to inflict a 7 pt. hand damage strike, oops, I prevent that after
striking hand and I'll Pull YOUR fangs.
: Everett Littles Cal Poly SLO Business MIS: http://www.calpoly.edu/~elittles/park.html
: Clan Ravnos Home Page
Tobin
-tpl
>What's the deal with all these locations in the new expansion set being
>able to be burnt as D actions. What ever happened to just playing cards
>like Rampage, Arson, or Unnatural Disaster? Just making a point because
>I think it's pretty lame.
I think everyone can agree that it is pretty lame. Pool costs are often
far too high on burnable locations. Burnablity makes the location less likely
to be stolen and usually only your predator will burn the location unless you
are winning. I think burnable locations should all have a cost to play of
zero considering their temporary nature. Isn't spending your master phase and
a card enough cost? Was making more cards like Oxford University and
Wasserschloss Anif, Austria really necessary? (pay 3 pool for a vote or pay 2
pool for a burnable blood doll)
>Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is?>Fortitude card
>Prevent X+1 damage
>Bold As above, with an optional press.
>X is blood off the vampire.
>This seems pretty lame to me.
Its just a better version of Indomitability. Lame is Death of My
Conscience... a mostly inferior version of Fists of Death unless you spend 5
cards that aren't replaced until after combat and then only if you can
actually use the +4/+8 damage. Furthermore it can only be used by older
vampires so you can't get Lupo or Koko doing 5 damage which might actually be
a worthwhile use of the card.
In article <4p3rf8$j...@fcnews.fc.hp.com> tob...@fc.hp.com (Tobin Lopes x6486) writes:
>If you notice a lot of the newer locations are more powerful than the
>original set locales. Originals were KRCG,INFO HIGHWAY, HUNTING GROUNDS
I would consider very few locations more powerful than KRGC, Infohighway, and
HGs. Only Heidelburg Castle comes to mind and look, it can't be d-burned
either.
>etc. Not a lot of very specific purpose cards. The Grand Temple of Set let
>you take control of a fricking vamp from your prey for gosh's sake. I'd
>say that that's pretty powerful for 2 or 3 pool(I think).
Its pretty powerful but poor clans need good cards to entice people to play
them.
>Any other word you have to decribe disappointing cards? Think of HS this
>way: An inferior fort. vamp can prevent torn signpost/fists o'
>death/undead strength combo.
Okay how does losing 6 blood instead of 7 "prevent" this combo? That is if
you have 6 blood otherwise you still go to torpor.
>: Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what
>: it looks like.>This is the BEST use. Hey you can even pull the fangs after they have
>trieed to inflict a 7 pt. hand damage strike, oops, I prevent that after
>striking hand and I'll Pull YOUR fangs.
The card you are looking for is Skin of Steel, instead of losing 6 blood you
only lose 1.
On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Everett Littles wrote:
> Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is?> Card reads.> Fortitude card
> Prevent X+1 damage
> Bold As above, with an optional press.
Daniel Hoffman (???I think..) wrote:
> Okay how does losing 6 blood instead of 7 "prevent" this combo? That
> is if you have 6 blood otherwise you still go to torpor.
It is a more versatile version of the Jyhad FOR card that prevents 1/as
above with a press.
After all, you can spend 0 and prevent 1, or spend more and survive large
amounts of aggravated. Its one advantage over skin of steel is that you
do not necessarily have to lose 1 blood.
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On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Daniel Hoffman wrote:
> I think everyone can agree that it is pretty lame. Pool costs are often
> far too high on burnable locations. Burnablity makes the location less likely
> to be stolen and usually only your predator will burn the location unless you
> are winning. I think burnable locations should all have a cost to play of
> zero considering their temporary nature. Isn't spending your master phase and
> a card enough cost? Was making more cards like Oxford University and
> Wasserschloss Anif, Austria really necessary? (pay 3 pool for a vote or pay 2
> pool for a burnable blood doll)
I agree. I hate the idea of shelling out all this pool just to have a
phat chance of getting a location burned. Plus when you are playing
Ventrue decks and all your vamps are hellza large pool become very
precious to your really quick.
>
> >Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is?> >Fortitude card
> >Prevent X+1 damage
> >Bold As above, with an optional press.> >X is blood off the vampire.
> >This seems pretty lame to me.
>
> Its just a better version of Indomitability. Lame is Death of My
> Conscience... a mostly inferior version of Fists of Death unless you spend 5
> cards that aren't replaced until after combat and then only if you can
> actually use the +4/+8 damage. Furthermore it can only be used by older
> vampires so you can't get Lupo or Koko doing 5 damage which might actually be
> a worthwhile use of the card.
I still think that it's pretty weak. Especially since there are some
kick ass new potence and protean cards.
Daniel Hoffman wrote:
>
> In article <4p3rf8$j...@fcnews.fc.hp.com> tob...@fc.hp.com (Tobin Lopes x6486) writes:
> >If you notice a lot of the newer locations are more powerful than the
> >original set locales. Originals were KRCG,INFO HIGHWAY, HUNTING GROUNDS
>
> I would consider very few locations more powerful than KRGC, Infohighway, and
> HGs. Only Heidelburg Castle comes to mind and look, it can't be d-burned
> either.
>
I'd have to say Parthenon and Tomb of Ramses III are right up there, now..
they're incredible to have in almost any situation...
> >etc. Not a lot of very specific purpose cards. The Grand Temple of Set let
> >you take control of a fricking vamp from your prey for gosh's sake. I'd
> >say that that's pretty powerful for 2 or 3 pool(I think).
>
> Its pretty powerful but poor clans need good cards to entice people to play
> them.
>
I wouldn't call the Setitites a poor clan.. no one is better at stealing your
vampires.. (except maybe Ventrue..).. and they can still stealth/bleed you
with presence/obfuscate...
> >Any other word you have to decribe disappointing cards? Think of HS this
> >way: An inferior fort. vamp can prevent torn signpost/fists o'
> >death/undead strength combo.
>> Okay how does losing 6 blood instead of 7 "prevent" this combo? That is if
> you have 6 blood otherwise you still go to torpor.
>> >: Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what
> >: it looks like.
>
> >This is the BEST use. Hey you can even pull the fangs after they have
> >trieed to inflict a 7 pt. hand damage strike, oops, I prevent that after
> >striking hand and I'll Pull YOUR fangs.
>
> The card you are looking for is Skin of Steel, instead of losing 6 blood you
> only lose 1.
Yeah... I'vefound the only real advantage of this card is that it's a press
for Fortitude... not that many Fortitiude decks really wnat to press....
WyldStar
Hidden Strength is an odd card in terms of game design, as while Jyhad has
so far done a really good job of avoiding many problems Magic has, Hidden
Strength is an example of a card that is just far and away strictly better
than another card, a problem that WOTC has avowed to avoid at all costs.
Hidden Strength, while it seems to be an odd sort of "why does it exist"
card, is in every way better than Indomitability with no extra cost. With
Hidden Strength, there is no need to ever use Indomitability again. It is
now a "Wallpaper" card. WOTC just took Chainsaw out of the card mix,
because Sawed off Shotgun was far and away just better than Chainsaw with
no extra cost.
The reason you would use Hidden Strength is because it is better than
Indomitibility. Without paying any blood, HS has the exact same effect as
Indomitibility, but you can also pay blood for extra damage prevention if
needed, making it better than Indomitability which does not have this
ability. As damage prevention goes, it is not quite as good as Skin of
Steel, but it does give a Press, and you don't NEED to pay the one blood
you do to use Skin of Steel, but it is completely better than
Indomitability.
To reason to make current useful cards obsolete, especially when Chainsaw
and Concealed Weapon were removed for the very reason that they were
obsolete in the face of similar cards. HS should not exist, or there
should be a version that duplicates Unflinching Persistance in the same
manner to replace them both, or HS should be changed in some manner, but I
can't think of a way to fix it without making it inferior to Skin of
Steel. Maybe have it prevent X+2 damage, and you need to spend at least 1
blood.
Peter D Bakija
PD...@aol.com
"Nothing vanishes without a trace.
Burn it!"
-Smoking Man
On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, WildStar wrote:
> Daniel Hoffman wrote:
[Re: Hidden Strength vs. 7 damage]
> > The card you are looking for is Skin of Steel, instead of losing 6 blood you
> > only lose 1.> Yeah... I'vefound the only real advantage of this card is that it's a press
> for Fortitude... not that many Fortitiude decks really wnat to press....
Hidden Strength is a superior version of the Jyhad Fortitude card (whose
name eludes me) that prevents one/prevents one with a press. You can
spend 0 and prevent 1, or spend 6 and prevent 7. It has some versatility
that Skin of Steel doesn't have: namely, it can be played by empty
vampires.
As for pressing, who says you need to press to continue.
[ quoted text not captured ]
pd...@aol.com (PDB6) writes:
>The reason you would use Hidden Strength is because it is better than
>Indomitibility. Without paying any blood, HS has the exact same effect
as
>Indomitibility, but you can also pay blood for extra damage prevention if
>needed, making it better than Indomitability which does not have this
>ability. As damage prevention goes, it is not quite as good as Skin of
>Steel, but it does give a Press, and you don't NEED to pay the one blood
>you do to use Skin of Steel, but it is completely better than
>Indomitability.
While HS may wallpaper Indomitability in practice, it is not entirely
superior. Indomitability can be used for a press alone, but HS is ONLY
"prevent damage with an optional press". So if your opponent does not do
you damage, HS cannot press. With an offensive Fortitude deck, or
fighting non-damage types like Tremere blood theft, HS could be markedly
inferior. In any case, if your opponent pops out an additional press in
the press phase, Indomitability can help you but HS can't.
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
In article <Pine.A32.3.91.960604...@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu>,
Everett Littles <elit...@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu> wrote:
>
>Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is?>Card reads.>Fortitude card
>Prevent X+1 damage
>Bold As above, with an optional press.
>X is blood off the vampire.
>This seems pretty lame to me.>Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what
>it looks like.
It's a better version of one of the standard fortitude cards (unflinching
persistance? I forget: the one with the press). Keep in mind that you
needn't spend any blood on it. True, the extra ability (basicly to
change aggravated damage to blood loss) isn't that great, but then again
I can think of a couple of games where it would have saved my ass.
>
>Everett Littles Cal Poly SLO Business MIS
-Jasper
--
/\ Jasper Phillips (Pit Fiend) ______,....----,
/VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|==================="""""""""""" ___,..-'
`^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|======================----------""""""
\/ http://www.cs.orst.edu/~philljas/
In article <4pa4s1$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams)
writes:
>While HS may wallpaper Indomitability in practice, it is not entirely
>superior. Indomitability can be used for a press alone, but HS is ONLY
>"prevent damage with an optional press". So if your opponent does not do
>you damage, HS cannot press. With an offensive Fortitude deck, or
>fighting non-damage types like Tremere blood theft, HS could be markedly
>inferior. In any case, if your opponent pops out an additional press in
>the press phase, Indomitability can help you but HS can't.
Can't you pay 0 and prevent 1 with an optional press?
Gary S.
On 8 Jun 1996, Gary Schwartz wrote:
> In article <4pa4s1$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams)
> writes:
>
> >While HS may wallpaper Indomitability in practice, it is not entirely
[Snip]
> Can't you pay 0 and prevent 1 with an optional press?
Yes, but you can't merely press if you don't have damage to prevent
(examples: against Tremere, or having drawn the card and already
prevented all damage)
[ quoted text not captured ]
schw...@math.uiuc.edu (Gary Schwartz) writes:
>In article <4pa4s1$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com
(CurtAdams)
>writes:>>While HS may wallpaper Indomitability in practice, it is not entirely>>superior. Indomitability can be used for a press alone, but HS is ONLY
>>"prevent damage with an optional press".>Can't you pay 0 and prevent 1 with an optional press?
As I understand it, no, because you can't play a prevent damage card
unless there's damage to prevent. Notice the wording of Indomitability:
"Press, or prevent 1 damage with an optional press". It's very precise.
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> writes:
>On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Everett Littles wrote:>> Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is?
>> Card reads.
>> Fortitude card
>> Prevent X+1 damage
>> Bold As above, with an optional press.>It is a more versatile version of the Jyhad FOR card that prevents 1/as
>above with a press.
Except that the Jyhad version's Superior also allows you to Press without
preventing damage. More versatile / less versatile? Nah - just balanced.
--
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http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | surly to rise.
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