rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Ancient Hearts, DS, and Hidden Strength

15 messages from 10 participants · 04 June 1996 – 10 June 1996
original thread on Google Groups

Everett Littles

What's the deal with all these locations in the new expansion set being able to be burnt as D actions. What ever happened to just playing cards like Rampage, Arson, or Unnatural Disaster? Just making a point because I think it's pretty lame. Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is? Card reads. Fortitude card Prevent X+1 damage Bold As above, with an optional press. X is blood off the vampire. This seems pretty lame to me. Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what it looks like. Everett Littles Cal Poly SLO Business MIS http://www.calpoly.edu/~elittles/park.html Clan Ravnos Home Page

Tobin Lopes x6486

Everett Littles (elit...@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu) wrote: : What's the deal with all these locations in the new expansion set being : able to be burnt as D actions. What ever happened to just playing cards : like Rampage, Arson, or Unnatural Disaster? Just making a point because : I think it's pretty lame. If you notice a lot of the newer locations are more powerful than the original set locales. Originals were KRCG,INFO HIGHWAY, HUNTING GROUNDS, etc. Not a lot of very specific purpose cards. The Grand Temple of Set let you take control of a fricking vamp from your prey for gosh's sake. I'd say that that's pretty powerful for 2 or 3 pool(I think). : Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is? : Card reads. : Fortitude card : Prevent X+1 damage : Bold As above, with an optional press. : X is blood off the vampire. : This seems pretty lame to me. Any other word you have to decribe disappointing cards? Think of HS this way: An inferior fort. vamp can prevent torn signpost/fists o' death/undead strength combo. I.E. if people play combos like this against you than they end up playing two or three cards while you play only one to counter them. It's not a heart-stopping card. But it is useful. : Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what : it looks like. This is the BEST use. Hey you can even pull the fangs after they have trieed to inflict a 7 pt. hand damage strike, oops, I prevent that after striking hand and I'll Pull YOUR fangs. : Everett Littles Cal Poly SLO Business MIS : http://www.calpoly.edu/~elittles/park.html : Clan Ravnos Home Page Tobin -tpl

Daniel Hoffman

>What's the deal with all these locations in the new expansion set being >able to be burnt as D actions. What ever happened to just playing cards >like Rampage, Arson, or Unnatural Disaster? Just making a point because >I think it's pretty lame. I think everyone can agree that it is pretty lame. Pool costs are often far too high on burnable locations. Burnablity makes the location less likely to be stolen and usually only your predator will burn the location unless you are winning. I think burnable locations should all have a cost to play of zero considering their temporary nature. Isn't spending your master phase and a card enough cost? Was making more cards like Oxford University and Wasserschloss Anif, Austria really necessary? (pay 3 pool for a vote or pay 2 pool for a burnable blood doll) >Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is? >Fortitude card >Prevent X+1 damage >Bold As above, with an optional press. >X is blood off the vampire. >This seems pretty lame to me. Its just a better version of Indomitability. Lame is Death of My Conscience... a mostly inferior version of Fists of Death unless you spend 5 cards that aren't replaced until after combat and then only if you can actually use the +4/+8 damage. Furthermore it can only be used by older vampires so you can't get Lupo or Koko doing 5 damage which might actually be a worthwhile use of the card.

Daniel Hoffman

In article <4p3rf8$j...@fcnews.fc.hp.com> tob...@fc.hp.com (Tobin Lopes x6486) writes: >If you notice a lot of the newer locations are more powerful than the >original set locales. Originals were KRCG,INFO HIGHWAY, HUNTING GROUNDS I would consider very few locations more powerful than KRGC, Infohighway, and HGs. Only Heidelburg Castle comes to mind and look, it can't be d-burned either. >etc. Not a lot of very specific purpose cards. The Grand Temple of Set let >you take control of a fricking vamp from your prey for gosh's sake. I'd >say that that's pretty powerful for 2 or 3 pool(I think). Its pretty powerful but poor clans need good cards to entice people to play them. >Any other word you have to decribe disappointing cards? Think of HS this >way: An inferior fort. vamp can prevent torn signpost/fists o' >death/undead strength combo. Okay how does losing 6 blood instead of 7 "prevent" this combo? That is if you have 6 blood otherwise you still go to torpor. >: Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what >: it looks like. >This is the BEST use. Hey you can even pull the fangs after they have >trieed to inflict a 7 pt. hand damage strike, oops, I prevent that after >striking hand and I'll Pull YOUR fangs. The card you are looking for is Skin of Steel, instead of losing 6 blood you only lose 1.

The Corrupter

On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Everett Littles wrote: > Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is? > Card reads. > Fortitude card > Prevent X+1 damage > Bold As above, with an optional press. Daniel Hoffman (???I think..) wrote: > Okay how does losing 6 blood instead of 7 "prevent" this combo? That > is if you have 6 blood otherwise you still go to torpor. It is a more versatile version of the Jyhad FOR card that prevents 1/as above with a press. After all, you can spend 0 and prevent 1, or spend more and survive large amounts of aggravated. Its one advantage over skin of steel is that you do not necessarily have to lose 1 blood. "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu Spoutingly yours 8^) # $ GAT/CS/O/WS R+++* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ t X++&-- 5->? e+*>++++ PS+&-+ @ # PE&++&- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ N++(+) K+>++++ w---$>? M++$ r(+) z*+? 3.1# @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$

Everett Littles

On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Daniel Hoffman wrote: > I think everyone can agree that it is pretty lame. Pool costs are often > far too high on burnable locations. Burnablity makes the location less likely > to be stolen and usually only your predator will burn the location unless you > are winning. I think burnable locations should all have a cost to play of > zero considering their temporary nature. Isn't spending your master phase and > a card enough cost? Was making more cards like Oxford University and > Wasserschloss Anif, Austria really necessary? (pay 3 pool for a vote or pay 2 > pool for a burnable blood doll) I agree. I hate the idea of shelling out all this pool just to have a phat chance of getting a location burned. Plus when you are playing Ventrue decks and all your vamps are hellza large pool become very precious to your really quick. > > >Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is? > >Fortitude card > >Prevent X+1 damage > >Bold As above, with an optional press. > >X is blood off the vampire. > >This seems pretty lame to me. > > Its just a better version of Indomitability. Lame is Death of My > Conscience... a mostly inferior version of Fists of Death unless you spend 5 > cards that aren't replaced until after combat and then only if you can > actually use the +4/+8 damage. Furthermore it can only be used by older > vampires so you can't get Lupo or Koko doing 5 damage which might actually be > a worthwhile use of the card. I still think that it's pretty weak. Especially since there are some kick ass new potence and protean cards.

WildStar

Daniel Hoffman wrote: > > In article <4p3rf8$j...@fcnews.fc.hp.com> tob...@fc.hp.com (Tobin Lopes x6486) writes: > >If you notice a lot of the newer locations are more powerful than the > >original set locales. Originals were KRCG,INFO HIGHWAY, HUNTING GROUNDS > > I would consider very few locations more powerful than KRGC, Infohighway, and > HGs. Only Heidelburg Castle comes to mind and look, it can't be d-burned > either. > I'd have to say Parthenon and Tomb of Ramses III are right up there, now.. they're incredible to have in almost any situation... > >etc. Not a lot of very specific purpose cards. The Grand Temple of Set let > >you take control of a fricking vamp from your prey for gosh's sake. I'd > >say that that's pretty powerful for 2 or 3 pool(I think). > > Its pretty powerful but poor clans need good cards to entice people to play > them. > I wouldn't call the Setitites a poor clan.. no one is better at stealing your vampires.. (except maybe Ventrue..).. and they can still stealth/bleed you with presence/obfuscate... > >Any other word you have to decribe disappointing cards? Think of HS this > >way: An inferior fort. vamp can prevent torn signpost/fists o' > >death/undead strength combo. > > Okay how does losing 6 blood instead of 7 "prevent" this combo? That is if > you have 6 blood otherwise you still go to torpor. > > >: Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what > >: it looks like. > > >This is the BEST use. Hey you can even pull the fangs after they have > >trieed to inflict a 7 pt. hand damage strike, oops, I prevent that after > >striking hand and I'll Pull YOUR fangs. > > The card you are looking for is Skin of Steel, instead of losing 6 blood you > only lose 1. Yeah... I'vefound the only real advantage of this card is that it's a press for Fortitude... not that many Fortitiude decks really wnat to press.... WyldStar

PDB6

Hidden Strength is an odd card in terms of game design, as while Jyhad has so far done a really good job of avoiding many problems Magic has, Hidden Strength is an example of a card that is just far and away strictly better than another card, a problem that WOTC has avowed to avoid at all costs. Hidden Strength, while it seems to be an odd sort of "why does it exist" card, is in every way better than Indomitability with no extra cost. With Hidden Strength, there is no need to ever use Indomitability again. It is now a "Wallpaper" card. WOTC just took Chainsaw out of the card mix, because Sawed off Shotgun was far and away just better than Chainsaw with no extra cost. The reason you would use Hidden Strength is because it is better than Indomitibility. Without paying any blood, HS has the exact same effect as Indomitibility, but you can also pay blood for extra damage prevention if needed, making it better than Indomitability which does not have this ability. As damage prevention goes, it is not quite as good as Skin of Steel, but it does give a Press, and you don't NEED to pay the one blood you do to use Skin of Steel, but it is completely better than Indomitability. To reason to make current useful cards obsolete, especially when Chainsaw and Concealed Weapon were removed for the very reason that they were obsolete in the face of similar cards. HS should not exist, or there should be a version that duplicates Unflinching Persistance in the same manner to replace them both, or HS should be changed in some manner, but I can't think of a way to fix it without making it inferior to Skin of Steel. Maybe have it prevent X+2 damage, and you need to spend at least 1 blood. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "Nothing vanishes without a trace. Burn it!" -Smoking Man

The Corrupter

On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, WildStar wrote: > Daniel Hoffman wrote: [Re: Hidden Strength vs. 7 damage] > > The card you are looking for is Skin of Steel, instead of losing 6 blood you > > only lose 1. > Yeah... I'vefound the only real advantage of this card is that it's a press > for Fortitude... not that many Fortitiude decks really wnat to press.... Hidden Strength is a superior version of the Jyhad Fortitude card (whose name eludes me) that prevents one/prevents one with a press. You can spend 0 and prevent 1, or spend 6 and prevent 7. It has some versatility that Skin of Steel doesn't have: namely, it can be played by empty vampires. As for pressing, who says you need to press to continue. [ quoted text not captured ]

CurtAdams

pd...@aol.com (PDB6) writes: >The reason you would use Hidden Strength is because it is better than >Indomitibility. Without paying any blood, HS has the exact same effect as >Indomitibility, but you can also pay blood for extra damage prevention if >needed, making it better than Indomitability which does not have this >ability. As damage prevention goes, it is not quite as good as Skin of >Steel, but it does give a Press, and you don't NEED to pay the one blood >you do to use Skin of Steel, but it is completely better than >Indomitability. While HS may wallpaper Indomitability in practice, it is not entirely superior. Indomitability can be used for a press alone, but HS is ONLY "prevent damage with an optional press". So if your opponent does not do you damage, HS cannot press. With an offensive Fortitude deck, or fighting non-damage types like Tremere blood theft, HS could be markedly inferior. In any case, if your opponent pops out an additional press in the press phase, Indomitability can help you but HS can't. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

Jasper Phillips

In article <Pine.A32.3.91.960604...@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu>, Everett Littles <elit...@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu> wrote: > >Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is? >Card reads. >Fortitude card >Prevent X+1 damage >Bold As above, with an optional press. >X is blood off the vampire. >This seems pretty lame to me. >Only good against a hell of alot of aggravated, or at least that's what >it looks like. It's a better version of one of the standard fortitude cards (unflinching persistance? I forget: the one with the press). Keep in mind that you needn't spend any blood on it. True, the extra ability (basicly to change aggravated damage to blood loss) isn't that great, but then again I can think of a couple of games where it would have saved my ass. > >Everett Littles Cal Poly SLO Business MIS -Jasper -- /\ Jasper Phillips (Pit Fiend) ______,....----, /VVVVVVVVVVVVVV|==================="""""""""""" ___,..-' `^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|======================----------"""""" \/ http://www.cs.orst.edu/~philljas/

Gary Schwartz

In article <4pa4s1$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) writes: >While HS may wallpaper Indomitability in practice, it is not entirely >superior. Indomitability can be used for a press alone, but HS is ONLY >"prevent damage with an optional press". So if your opponent does not do >you damage, HS cannot press. With an offensive Fortitude deck, or >fighting non-damage types like Tremere blood theft, HS could be markedly >inferior. In any case, if your opponent pops out an additional press in >the press phase, Indomitability can help you but HS can't. Can't you pay 0 and prevent 1 with an optional press? Gary S.

The Corrupter

On 8 Jun 1996, Gary Schwartz wrote: > In article <4pa4s1$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) > writes: > > >While HS may wallpaper Indomitability in practice, it is not entirely [Snip] > Can't you pay 0 and prevent 1 with an optional press? Yes, but you can't merely press if you don't have damage to prevent (examples: against Tremere, or having drawn the card and already prevented all damage) [ quoted text not captured ]

CurtAdams

schw...@math.uiuc.edu (Gary Schwartz) writes: >In article <4pa4s1$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) >writes: >>While HS may wallpaper Indomitability in practice, it is not entirely >>superior. Indomitability can be used for a press alone, but HS is ONLY >>"prevent damage with an optional press". >Can't you pay 0 and prevent 1 with an optional press? As I understand it, no, because you can't play a prevent damage card unless there's damage to prevent. Notice the wording of Indomitability: "Press, or prevent 1 damage with an optional press". It's very precise. Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)

L. Scott Johnson

The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> writes: >On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Everett Littles wrote: >> Plus, can anyone tell me what the purpose of Hidden Strength is? >> Card reads. >> Fortitude card >> Prevent X+1 damage >> Bold As above, with an optional press. >It is a more versatile version of the Jyhad FOR card that prevents 1/as >above with a press. Except that the Jyhad version's Superior also allows you to Press without preventing damage. More versatile / less versatile? Nah - just balanced. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Surly to bed, http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | surly to rise. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |