House rules - net.personality-generated.

Additions and Suggestions should be sent to: sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu Please include the text "house rule" in the subject line. NOTE: Some rules are mix-n-match, some are mutually exclusive. Take what you want and ignore the rest. House Rules =========== Fixing what's Broken -------------------- Bringing unbalancing cards into line, making the game playable. o. Reaction cards can be played by Minions controlled by a Methuselah other than the Methuselah controlling the acting Minion, even on your own turn. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] o. Cards which cannot be used by vampires going to torpor (Pulled Fangs, Amaranth) cannot be used by a vampire burned in combat, either. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Bonding - only one of Bonding, Condition, or Threats Card may be used during a single action. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Charming Lobby - use as an action to call a vote at +1 stealth. If successful, call a vote by playing a Political Action card or by naming a vote allowed by a card in play. If the vote succeeds, the next vote will pass as well. [LSJ] [JHJ] use as an action to call a vote at +1 stealth. If successful, a vote is called to determine whether the next vote will pass. A successful vote means the next vote called will pass automatically. [CSA] Conditioning - see Bonding. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Monacle of Clarity - may not refer to future questions, answers, statements, nor commands. If it invokes a relationship (p -> q), then the answerer is free to make p true without regard to her ability to make the relationship agree with her answer. Once p is true, the answerer becomes bound to make the relationship agree with her answer, if possible. [LSJ] [JHJ] Threats - see Bonding. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Clarifications and Design Considerations ---------------------------------------- Correcting rules that work satisfactorily to begin with (includes wallpaper). o. An action with the (D) symbol is directed, and can only be blocked by the target Methuseleh or the target card's controller. An action without the (D) symbol is undirected and can only be blocked by the acting Methuseleh's prey or predator. An action not directed against another Methuselah is considered undirected. The presence or absence of the (D) symbol has no effect on determination of legal targets. [CSA] [LSJ] [JHJ] o. Master Out-of-Turn cards may be played whenever appropriate in lieu of you next Master Phase, as per the rulebook. [LSJ] [JHJ] o. Definition of "same action". For the purposes of cards that prohibit the "same action", if an action defined in the rulebook (bleed, equip, recruit ally, recruit retainer, political action, hunt, encounter vampire in torpor, leave torpor) is accomplished more than once, it is considered the same action even if the target changes or a different action card is used. Likewise, any such action accomplished without a card is considered the same as the same action accomplished with an action card. [CSA] o. No more than one of any particular action modifier may be played or used during any particular action, even if the acting minion changes. This does not apply to minions that are not the acting minion when they play the card. [CSA] o. Combat cannot occur with a vampire in torpor. Diablerie is possible if the opposing minion is a ready vampire, otherwise nothing happens. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] o. Strike: Combat Ends resolves during normal strike resolution (still cancelling first strikes). If the opposing strike is also: End Combat, then both have their usual effect. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] o. Only Methuselehs other than the acting Methuseleh may use additional political action cards for votes. [CSA] Blood Rage - requires (th) not (fo). [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Brujah Frenzy - may be played only on a Ready Brujah. Can only send the Acting Brujah into combat with a Ready Minion. [LSJ] [CSA] Chainsaw - is a melee weapon [CSA] [LX] [JC] does 3 damage each strike. Only usable once per round. [JHJ] Concealed Weapon - does not require (ob). [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Day Operation - is unblockable, even with the aid of Eagle's Sight. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Deflection - replace the superior version with "as above, plus the reacting vampire can pay 1 blood and not be tapped by Deflection" [CSA] Eagle's Sight - allows only the attempt to block. Attempting to block an unblockable action is futile. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Earth Meld - costs 1 blood from the acting vampire. [CSA] Elder Kindred Network - has no effect on a successful Referendum. [TOM] [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Enchant Kindred - is at +1 stealth when attempting the superior version. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Faceless Night - taps any minion who attempted to block when the action becomes blocked or when the action resolves, as appropriate. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Fame - affects the controller of the card that did the damage that caused the vampire to enter torpor. If the vampire is sent to torpor by a special card, such as Day Operation, it affects the controller of that card. [CSA] Form of Mist - costs 1 blood from the vampire playing it. [CSA] Freak Drive - costs 2 blood from the acting vampire. [CSA] Frenzy - may be played even if you have no Minions involved in the Combat. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Lextalionis - may be called when a Methuselah has gained a victory point since the start (untap) of your last turn. [LSJ] [JHJ] [CSA] Majesty - costs 1 blood from the vampire playing it. [CSA] Misdirection - Costs 2X but still taps X minions. [CSA] Obedience - costs 1 blood from the reacting vampire. [CSA] Parity Shift - may only redistribute pool up to the difference between the selected Methuselah's pool and your own pool. [LSJ] [CSA] Sport Bike - is not optional. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Taste of Vitae - only one of these may be played per minion per round. [LSJ] [CSA] [LX] [JHJ] only counts blood lost by healing damage. [CSA] [LSJ] [LX] is only usable at close range. [CSA] [LSJ] The 2nd Tradition - may be used by an untapped Prince/Justicar for +2 intercept. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] The 5th Tradition - may not be used to refill the acting vampire [CSA] Wake with Evening's Freshness - costs 1 blood from the reacting vampire. [CSA] Game World Considerations -------------------------- Changes to make the card game feel like, or reflect the mechanics of, the "real" world (where vampires exist, of course). o. Actions by vampires in torpor can be blocked by Kindred ONLY. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] o. Transferring equipment from a vampire in torpor can be done by Kindred ONLY. [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Chainsaw - begins each combat "off". Does 3 damage each strike if it began the round of combat "on". The minion holding it may use a Strike: start chainsaw to turn the chainsaw "on". Strike: start chainsaw is unaffected by Strike: dodge. [LSJ] Chantry - may be applied during Untap, not Master phase. [LSJ] Haven Uncovered - does not prevent its victim from being attacked in torpor. [LSJ] Rotshreck - must target a vampire actually targetted by an act which would cause aggravated damage. If the act is unperformed (due to Combat Ends or steal/destroy equipment with first strike, e.g.), Rotshreck may not be used. This does not apply if the damage is foiled (by dodge, fortitude, Merril Molitor, Blood Rage/Fury, e.g.) [LSJ] [JHJ] is played only during damage resolution. May take into account damage occurring by means other than strikes, such as Weather Control. [CSA] may be played any time the possibility of taking aggravated damage exists. [LX] Zip Gun - is a Weapon, but not a Weapon: Gun. (It may not use ammunition). [CSA] ---------- [CSA] - Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) [JC] - Joseph Cochran [JHJ] - J. Hunter Johnson (jhun...@io.com) [LSJ] - L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) [LX] - Larrx - (la...@acs.bu.edu) [TOM] - Thomas R Wylie, WotC Net.Rep (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu)

Scott writes: >Deflection - replace the superior version with "as above, plus the reacting > vampire can pay 1 blood and not be tapped by Deflection" > [CSA] Maybe a good place to note the "official" errata, that it's paid for by vampire blood and not pool. >Fame - affects the controller of the card that did the damage that caused > the vampire to enter torpor. If the vampire is sent to torpor by a > special card, such as Day Operation, it affects the controller of that > card. > [CSA] Burn the Fame when the famous vampire goes to torpor. A one-shot deal. >Misdirection - Costs 2X but still taps X minions. > [CSA] 2 times X, or 2 + X? 1 + X maybe, but it's still better left alone altogether. >Parity Shift - may only redistribute pool up to the difference between the > selected Methuselah's pool and your own pool. > [LSJ] [CSA] Boo hiss. >Zip Gun - is a Weapon, but not a Weapon: Gun. (It may not use ammunition). > [CSA] ??? Last I checked, a Zip gun was simply an improvised gun. They still need ammo. Any ammo could be fired a normal gun could use, they just tend to blow up/backfire/not work. A bad argument to put down to "realism". Alec -- Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu http://astrowww.astro.indiana.edu/personnel/ahabig/ Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.

:House Rules :=========== :o. Reaction cards can be played by Minions controlled by a Methuselah : other than the Methuselah controlling the acting Minion, even on : your own turn. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] By what's written, you can't play reaction cards during any of your minions actions, therefore the 'even on your own turn' is redundant. [SEB] :o. Cards which cannot be used by vampires going to torpor (Pulled Fangs, : Amaranth) cannot be used by a vampire burned in combat, either. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Included in the card text, but sure. [SEB] :Bonding - only one of Bonding, Condition, or Threats Card may be used : during a single action. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Again, as stated on card. [SEB] :Charming Lobby - use as an action to call a vote at +1 stealth. If : successful, a vote is called to determine whether the next vote will : pass. A successful vote means the next vote called will pass : automatically. : [CSA] Agreed, but the next vote could be anything, even a bloodhunt, and called by anyone. [SEB] :Conditioning - see Bonding. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Agreed. [SEB] :Monacle of Clarity - may not refer to future questions, answers, statements, : nor commands. If it invokes a relationship (p -> q), then the answerer is : free to make p true without regard to her ability to make the relationship : agree with her answer. Once p is true, the answerer becomes bound to make : the relationship agree with her answer, if possible. : [LSJ] [JHJ] Stopped playing with this card, not worth the hassle. [SEB] :Threats - see Bonding. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Agreed. [SEB] Parity Shift - As on card text. Parity not polarity. The change in parity doesn't have to be just a stablizing shift. One can take a much blood as there are methusalaa in the game. [SEB] :Clarifications and Design Considerations :---------------------------------------- :o. An action with the (D) symbol is directed, and can only be blocked by : the target Methuseleh or the target card's controller. An action : without the (D) symbol is undirected and can only be blocked by the : acting Methuseleh's prey or predator. An action not directed against : another Methuselah is considered undirected. The presence or absence : of the (D) symbol has no effect on determination of legal targets. : [CSA] [LSJ] [JHJ] Agreed. [SEB] :o. Master Out-of-Turn cards may be played whenever appropriate in lieu : of you next Master Phase, as per the rulebook. : [LSJ] [JHJ] Just not during your turn. [SEB] :o. Definition of "same action". For the purposes of cards that prohibit : the "same action", if an action defined in the rulebook (bleed, equip, : recruit ally, recruit retainer, political action, hunt, encounter : vampire in torpor, leave torpor) is accomplished more than once, it is : considered the same action even if the target changes or a different : action card is used. Likewise, any such action accomplished without a : card is considered the same as the same action accomplished with an : action card. : [CSA] Nope, I disagree. Action types are listed in the rulebook. Actions are designated by the card titles (text). I my 'Govern the unaligned' (bleed) is stopped (say with obediance, and I am forbidden to perform the same action, I can not 'Govern the unaligned' again. But I could try 'Legal Manipulations' (bleed) Different card. As well, equip with 'Laptop' is a different action from equip with 'Sport Bike'. [SEB] :o. No more than one of any particular action modifier may be played or : used during any particular action, even if the acting minion changes. : This does not apply to minions that are not the acting minion when they : play the card. : [CSA] To counter Mask of a Thousand Faces, I presume. Sure. [SEB] :o. Combat cannot occur with a vampire in torpor. Diablerie is possible : if the opposing minion is a ready vampire, otherwise nothing happens. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Addenum: Otherwise the acting minion stays in Torpor and is tapped. Any cost associated with the action are still spent. (ie. -2 blood) :o. Strike: Combat Ends resolves during normal strike resolution (still : cancelling first strikes). If the opposing strike is also: End Combat, : then both have their usual effect. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Agreed. [SEB] :o. Only Methuselehs other than the acting Methuseleh may use additional : political action cards for votes. : [CSA] No. My Voting deck needs this. Also, my votes are precious enough, that I wouldn't be tossing them in to rock a vote, unless I really need to. Besides, at best (with no voting vampires ready) I could get 1 vote for the original political action, and 7 others by this means alone. More with Bewitching Oration et. al. Anyone wanting to hold a hand with 7 vote cards in it, is going to be walked through like you wouldn't believe in the circle I play in. (Lots of rush decks). [SEB] :Blood Rage - requires (th) not (fo). : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Why? (I disagree) [SEB] :Brujah Frenzy - may be played only on a Ready Brujah. Can only send the : Acting Brujah into combat with a Ready Minion. : [LSJ] [CSA] I agree with the second part, but I disagree with the first. (see discussion on Brujah Frenzy vs. leaving Topor.) I think a Brujah leaving Torpor, who freaks out, and goes after someone else, deserves to be diablerized as the action originally taken allows (if blocked) so the minion targeted by the enraged Brujah just commits diablerie or not, it's their choice. :Chainsaw - is a melee weapon : [CSA] [LX] [JC] Disagreed. By the physics of how chainsaws work, swinging it harder into something, will not induce more damage. They tend to bind, and stall. (I've cut wood before - in case your wondering) Therefore declaring it a melee weapon, will not allow Lucky Blows, or Undead Strengths etc. [SEB] : does 3 damage each strike. Only usable once per round. : [JHJ] Disagreed. [SEB] :Concealed Weapon - does not require (ob). : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Uncertain. [SEB] :Day Operation - is unblockable, even with the aid of Eagle's Sight. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Agreed. [SEB] :Deflection - replace the superior version with "as above, plus the reacting : vampire can pay 1 blood and not be tapped by Deflection" : [CSA] Disagree. Leave as is. [SEB] :Eagle's Sight - allows only the attempt to block. Attempting to block an : unblockable action is futile. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Agreed. [SEB] :Earth Meld - costs 1 blood from the acting vampire. : [CSA] Disagree. [SEB] :Elder Kindred Network - has no effect on a successful Referendum. : [TOM] [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Given in card text. [SEB] :Enchant Kindred - is at +1 stealth when attempting the superior version. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Disagree. [SEB] :Faceless Night - taps any minion who attempted to block when the action : becomes blocked or when the action resolves, as appropriate. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Given in card text. [SEB] :Fame - affects the controller of the card that did the damage that caused : the vampire to enter torpor. If the vampire is sent to torpor by a : special card, such as Day Operation, it affects the controller of that : card. : [CSA] Disagree. Card should stand as is. [SEB] :Form of Mist - costs 1 blood from the vampire playing it. : [CSA] Disagree. [SEB] :Freak Drive - costs 2 blood from the acting vampire. : [CSA] Uncertain. [SEB] :Frenzy - may be played even if you have no Minions involved in the Combat. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Agreed. Can even play on your own vampire, if you're blocking someone else's action. [SEB] :Lextalionis - may be called when a Methuselah has gained a victory point : since the start (untap) of your last turn. : [LSJ] [JHJ] [CSA] Disagree. Card text stands. (Why would you be giving anyone victory points during your last turn?) [SEB] :Majesty - costs 1 blood from the vampire playing it. : [CSA] Disagree. (would cost two blood for superior version) [SEB] :Misdirection - Costs 2X but still taps X minions. : [CSA] Disagree. [SEB] :Obedience - costs 1 blood from the reacting vampire. : [CSA] Disagree. [SEB] :Sport Bike - is not optional. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Why? (just because you own one, doesn't mean you have to use it.) [SEB] :Taste of Vitae - only one of these may be played per minion per round. : [LSJ] [CSA] [LX] [JHJ] Addenum: ...per minion, per round of combat. (played during press phase, like pulled fangs.) [SEB] : only counts blood lost by healing damage. : [CSA] [LSJ] [LX] As in card text. (can't steal blood and then taste it as well - stolen blood isn't given to the thief until the press round, and may mean that it happens in Torpor) : is only usable at close range. : [CSA] [LSJ] Uncertain. (leaning towards agreement) [SEB] :The 2nd Tradition - may be used by an untapped Prince/Justicar for +2 : intercept. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] As card text. 'Prince or Justicar. +2 intercept. Usable by a tapped vampire that untaps and attempts to block.' (Nothing saying 'only' a tapped vampire, so both un/tapped may use card.) [SEB] :The 5th Tradition - may not be used to refill the acting vampire : [CSA] Uncertain. [SEB] :Wake with Evening's Freshness - costs 1 blood from the reacting vampire. : [CSA] Disagreed. [SEB] :Game World Considerations :-------------------------- Note: 'Game World' :o. Actions by vampires in torpor can be blocked by Kindred ONLY. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] I believe this one is in the rules. [SEB] :o. Transferring equipment from a vampire in torpor can be done by : Kindred ONLY. : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] Re: Encounter vampire in torpor, then take some equipment. (only works if you control both vampires.) [SEB] :Chainsaw - begins each combat "off". Does 3 damage each strike if it : began the round of combat "on". The minion holding it may use a Strike: : start chainsaw to turn the chainsaw "on". Strike: start chainsaw is : unaffected by Strike: dodge. : [LSJ] Disagree. A minion can draw a .44 Magnum, and fire accurately in the time it takes someone to punch them, simultaneously taking enough damage to turn them into dust. So why only Chainsaws, why not have 'Strike: Draw Weapon' for everything. (Of course undead strength may kill you while you are pulling out the Saturday Night Special, but that's the price you pay.) While you're at it, how do guns allow manuevers? (Is it to say you never got close enough for hand-to-hand in the first place, or does the gun somehow allow you to teleport?) If it's the first one, why do some strikes usable at long range only not allow manuevers? ie. I should be able to whack your vampire in the teeth with a sewer lid before s/he gets close enough to tear me to pieces. [SEB] Sorry about the flame. :) It does seem that you're rather frightened of Chainsaws though. :Chantry - may be applied during Untap, not Master phase. : [LSJ] Disagree. [SEB] :Haven Uncovered - does not prevent its victim from being attacked in torpor. : [LSJ] Disagreed. (If they are in Torpor, you can already encounter them. And, Combat does not occur in Torpor anyways.) [SEB] :Rotshreck - must target a vampire actually targetted by an act which would : cause aggravated damage. If the act is unperformed (due to Combat Ends or : steal/destroy equipment with first strike, e.g.), Rotshreck may not be : used. This does not apply if the damage is foiled (by dodge, fortitude, : Merril Molitor, Blood Rage/Fury, e.g.) : [LSJ] [JHJ] The targeting is silly. (Why specify, it's inherit in the rules) We don't play with this, too much flip-flopping. (My personal opinion is that the text is wrong. Should read 'Rotschreck: Master: out-of-turn. Play when a _vampire_ attempts to use aggravated damage against a _minion_, whether successfully or not. Combat ends before damage is resolved. That vampire (meaning the one attempting aggravated damage) is put in Torpor, tapped, with this card on it. During the vampire's next untap phase, burn this card instead of untapping the vampire.' [SEB] : may be played any time the possibility of taking aggravated damage exists. : [LX] Agreed. [SEB] :Zip Gun - is a Weapon, but not a Weapon: Gun. (It may not use ammunition). : [CSA] Disaggree. (I do think that Dragons Breath Rounds in a Zip-Gun should do some Aggravated damage to the minion using it though.) [SEB] :---------- :[CSA] - Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) :[JC] - Joseph Cochran :[JHJ] - J. Hunter Johnson (jhun...@io.com) :[LSJ] - L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) :[LX] - Larrx - (la...@acs.bu.edu) :[TOM] - Thomas R Wylie, WotC Net.Rep (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu) [SEB] - Sebastian Romu (3s...@qlink.queensu.ca)

In article <3meals$s...@knot.queensu.ca>, Romu Sebastian J B <3s...@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote: >:Bonding - only one of Bonding, Condition, or Threats Card may be used >: during a single action. >: [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] >Again, as stated on card. [SEB] The official ruling handed down by Tom is that only one TYPE of B/C/T can be used. This means that via Mask of 1000 Faces, two Conditionings (for example) can be used. Our house rule is that only one CARD from the set can be used. That's the difference. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK

Joseph Cochran (js...@discus.ise.vt.edu) scribbles: :>:Bonding - only one of Bonding, Condition, or Threats Card may be used :>: during a single action. :>: [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] :>Again, as stated on card. [SEB] : The official ruling handed down by Tom is that only one TYPE of :B/C/T can be used. This means that via Mask of 1000 Faces, two :Conditionings (for example) can be used. Our house rule is that only :one CARD from the set can be used. That's the difference. Like it says ' only one of B..., Cond..., Thr... _Card_ ...' not _Cards_ So pick one of the three and only play one card. Like any other action modifiers, ie. Faceless Night, or Lost in Crowds. You can only play one of each card type on a single action, and the B,C,T's distinction is to stop All three (one of each) from being played on a single action for +6 bleed and +1 stealth. Seb.

In article <3mgph5$a...@knot.queensu.ca>, Romu Sebastian J B <3s...@qlink.queensu.ca> wrote: >Joseph Cochran (js...@discus.ise.vt.edu) scribbles: >:>:Bonding - only one of Bonding, Condition, or Threats Card may be used >:>: during a single action. >:>Again, as stated on card. [SEB] > >: The official ruling handed down by Tom is that only one TYPE of >:B/C/T can be used. This means that via Mask of 1000 Faces, two >:Conditionings (for example) can be used. Our house rule is that only >:one CARD from the set can be used. That's the difference. > >Like it says ' only one of B..., Cond..., Thr... _Card_ ...' not _Cards_ That's not what the card says. That's our house rule. RTFC. > >So pick one of the three and only play one card. Like any other action >modifiers, ie. Faceless Night, or Lost in Crowds. You can only play one >of each card type on a single action, and the B,C,T's distinction is to stop >All three (one of each) from being played on a single action for +6 bleed >and +1 stealth. Again, officially, it's one modifier per minion per action. Combined with the official interpretation from Tom (note that on the actual B/C/T cards it does not specify card or type), this means that by using Mask of 1000 Faces, you can OFFICIALLY use two Conditionings on the same action. I am not arguing the right or wrong of this, but it *IS* the official ruling. The house rule limits it to one card. [ quoted text not captured ]

3s...@qlink.queensu.ca (Romu Sebastian J B) writes: >:o. Reaction cards can be played by Minions controlled by a Methuselah >: other than the Methuselah controlling the acting Minion, even on >: your own turn. >: [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] >By what's written, you can't play reaction cards during any of your >minions actions, therefore the 'even on your own turn' is redundant. >[SEB] Other minions can act on your turn via the Madness Network. >:o. Cards which cannot be used by vampires going to torpor (Pulled Fangs, >: Amaranth) cannot be used by a vampire burned in combat, either. >: [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] >Included in the card text, but sure. [SEB] Look again! >:Bonding - only one of Bonding, Condition, or Threats Card may be used >: during a single action. >: [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] >Again, as stated on card. [SEB] Indeed. However, WotC managed to rule you can play multiple Conditionings via the Mask. >:Charming Lobby - use as an action to call a vote at +1 stealth. If >: successful, a vote is called to determine whether the next vote will >: pass. A successful vote means the next vote called will pass >: automatically. >: [CSA] >Agreed, but the next vote could be anything, even a bloodhunt, and called >by anyone. [SEB] Absolutely. Per the card. >:o. Definition of "same action". For the purposes of cards that prohibit >: the "same action", if an action defined in the rulebook (bleed, equip, >: recruit ally, recruit retainer, political action, hunt, encounter >: vampire in torpor, leave torpor) is accomplished more than once, it is >: considered the same action even if the target changes or a different >: action card is used. Likewise, any such action accomplished without a >: card is considered the same as the same action accomplished with an >: action card. >: [CSA] >Nope, I disagree. Action types are listed in the rulebook. Actions are >designated by the card titles (text). I my 'Govern the unaligned' >(bleed) is stopped (say with obediance, and I am forbidden to perform the >same action, I can not 'Govern the unaligned' again. But I could try >'Legal Manipulations' (bleed) Different card. As well, equip with >'Laptop' is a different action from equip with 'Sport Bike'. >[SEB] Can be argued either way. The restriction on Change of Target and regular Obedience is basically irrelevant by your definition. It becomes, basically, "if hunting, may not hunt again". >:o. Only Methuselehs other than the acting Methuseleh may use additional >: political action cards for votes. >: [CSA] >No. My Voting deck needs this. Also, my votes are precious enough, that >I wouldn't be tossing them in to rock a vote, unless I really need to. >Besides, at best (with no voting vampires ready) I could get 1 vote for >the original political action, and 7 others by this means alone. More >with Bewitching Oration et. al. Anyone wanting to hold a hand with 7 vote >cards in it, is going to be walked through like you wouldn't believe in >the circle I play in. (Lots of rush decks). >[SEB] Has anybody tried weenie political decks there?. Just haul the rushees out of torpor. >:Blood Rage - requires (th) not (fo). : [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] >Why? (I disagree) [SEB] It's a Thaumaturgy skill in the Roleplaying game; there's 1 too many fo skills and 1 too few th. >:Chainsaw - is a melee weapon >: [CSA] [LX] [JC] >Disagreed. By the physics of how chainsaws work, swinging it harder into >something, will not induce more damage. They tend to bind, and stall. >(I've cut wood before - in case your wondering) Therefore declaring it a >melee weapon, will not allow Lucky Blows, or Undead Strengths etc. >[SEB] This is in the Wallpaper section, not the Logical section. Why would you ever take a chainsaw over a Shotgun? It doesn't compare well with Bastard Sword either. >:Concealed Weapon - does not require (ob). >: [LSJ] [CSA] [JHJ] >Uncertain. [SEB] There's 1 too many ob cards. And how many disicipline cards refer to the using minion, with no superior? >:Fame - affects the controller of the card that did the damage that caused >: the vampire to enter torpor. If the vampire is sent to torpor by a >: special card, such as Day Operation, it affects the controller of that >: card. >: [CSA] >Disagree. Card should stand as is. [SEB] Even WotC thinks this card is too good and restricts it. >:Lextalionis - may be called when a Methuselah has gained a victory point >: since the start (untap) of your last turn. >: [LSJ] [JHJ] [CSA] >Disagree. Card text stands. (Why would you be giving anyone victory >points during your last turn?) >[SEB] On your vote. >:Majesty - costs 1 blood from the vampire playing it. >: [CSA] >Disagree. (would cost two blood for superior version) [SEB] Rather than arguing all the "untap" cards, I suggest you take a heavy bleed Ventrue deck, stick in 20 Majesties (no kidding) and a couple of Deflections, take out all combat, and see what happens. Don't try it too often; they'll kick you out of your play group. >:Misdirection - Costs 2X but still taps X minions. >: [CSA] >Disagree. [SEB] Again, even WotC sees the need to fix this card. >:Taste of Vitae - only one of these may be played per minion per round. >: [LSJ] [CSA] [LX] [JHJ] >Addenum: ...per minion, per round of combat. (played during press >phase, like pulled fangs.) >[SEB] The addendum would have to be "play during press phase, or at end of combat" >: only counts blood lost by healing damage. >: [CSA] [LSJ] [LX] >As in card text. (can't steal blood and then taste it as well - stolen >blood isn't given to the thief until the press round, and may mean that >it happens in Torpor) The DTR has officially ruled that you CAN taste stolen blood. Sigh. At least tasting spent blood remains in the air. >:Zip Gun - is a Weapon, but not a Weapon: Gun. (It may not use ammunition). >: [CSA] >Disaggree. (I do think that Dragons Breath Rounds in a Zip-Gun should do >some Aggravated damage to the minion using it though.) >[SEB] Won't work. Use it on the second shot. Kind of silly, anyway. Do you agree that Zip-DBR is a problem? :---------- :[CSA] - Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com) :[JC] - Joseph Cochran :[JHJ] - J. Hunter Johnson (jhun...@io.com) :[LSJ] - L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) :[LX] - Larrx - (la...@acs.bu.edu) :[TOM] - Thomas R Wylie, WotC Net.Rep (aa...@cats.ucsc.edu) [SEB] - Sebastian Romu (3s...@qlink.queensu.ca) Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)