[LSJ]: 2 sudden reversals + Anson/Rumours

A quick question. If I (for whatever reason) have two master phases, can I play two OOT-masters (2 suddens, for example)? In 1.6.2 it only says: "You may not play a second out-of-turn card against the same master phase". But since I have a second master phase, can I play my second OOT-master against that second (different) master phase? I think the answer is no, because you gain that second master phase _during_ your masterphase, but an official ruling would be helpful. Or maybe Ansons/RoG text is totally irrelevant, because an OOT-master counts against your next master _phase_, and the above two cards give you an additional master phase _action_. Still, a ruling would clear things up. Thanks in advance, Jeroen du Chatinier

Jeroen du Chatinier <jero...@hotmail.com> wrote: > A quick question. > If I (for whatever reason) have two master phases, can I play two > OOT-masters (2 suddens, for example)? > In 1.6.2 it only says: "You may not play a second out-of-turn card > against the same master phase". But since I have a second master > phase, can I play my second OOT-master against that second (different) > master phase? There is only ever one Master Phase per turn. Anson,etc only give you extra Master Phase *Actions*. Therefore there's currently no way in the game to play more than one out-of-turn Master in the same 'round'.

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<a4hkc.4363$Xj6....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>... > Jozxyqk wrote: > > Jeroen du Chatinier <jero...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>If I (for whatever reason) have two master phases, can I play two > >>OOT-masters (2 suddens, for example)? > > >>In 1.6.2 it only says: "You may not play a second out-of-turn card > >>against the same master phase". But since I have a second master > >>phase, can I play my second OOT-master against that second (different) > >>master phase? > > > > There is only ever one Master Phase per turn. > > Anson,etc only give you extra Master Phase *Actions*. > > > > Therefore there's currently no way in the game to play more than one > > out-of-turn Master in the same 'round'. > > Correct. ******** So, if I play an OOT-master, does that mean that I can not play any masters at all even if I got a second master phase action with Anson/RoG/Parthenon? Jeroen du Chatinier

On 30 Apr 2004 01:06:25 -0700, jero...@hotmail.com (Jeroen du Chatinier) scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] it's all spelled out pretty clear in that thing...umm...with the paper and the ink...erm....oh yeah, the rulebook! p19 of BH rulebook, at the top. "If you have played an out-of-turn master card against this master phase, then you gain one fewer master phase actions than normal" p13 "you may not play a second out-of-turn card against the same master phase" reading the whole sections with their context clarifies things even more. :D salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] No. It means what it says: One cannot play more than one out-of-turn Master in the same "round". -- [ quoted text not captured ]

Jeroen du Chatinier wrote: > > A quick question. > > If I (for whatever reason) have two master phases, can I play two > OOT-masters (2 suddens, for example)? > > In 1.6.2 it only says: "You may not play a second out-of-turn card > against the same master phase". But since I have a second master > phase, can I play my second OOT-master against that second (different) > master phase? In addition to the technical explaination for this that others have contributed, I'll point something out for you: Since people tend to think of using an OOT master at the penalty of a master phase action in the next master phase, it's natural to assume you're "borrowing" you next master phase action. Therefore, a lot of people naturally make the leap that if you have two master phase actions in the next turn, you ought to be able to borrow against both of them, right? (Well, of course, a strict reading of the rules does not support this, but aside from that...) ...except that you're assuming you'll even HAVE two master phases come the next round. Anson can be torporize, The Parenthenon can be burnt or stolen, Rumors of Gehenna can be voted off the island by the time your next master phase rolls around. Such a reading of the rules fails to address what happens if you've played two OOT masters and then lost your extra master phase action come the time you're expected to pay for them. Fred

> ...except that you're assuming you'll even HAVE two master phases come > the next round. Anson can be torporize, The Parenthenon can be burnt > or stolen, Rumors of Gehenna can be voted off the island by the time > your next master phase rolls around. Such a reading of the rules fails > to address what happens if you've played two OOT masters and then lost > your extra master phase action come the time you're expected to pay for > them. This is all hypothetical, since (as you point out) this isn't how the OoT master rule being discussed works, but the above situation doesn't always apply - there is a guaranteed way of getting an additional master phase that cannot be lost before the next master phase, which is by using Synesios' special: Independent: Synesios has 2 votes. You may pay a pool when you play a Master: Out-of-Turn card to gain an extra Master Phase Action in your next master phase. Synesios cannot use cards that require Celerity. Scarce. Synesios' special takes effect once you pay for it, so even if he burns before your next master phase you still get the extra MPA. So the 'you can't play a OoT master against your extra MPA because you might lose it if Anson/Rumors/Parthenon etc is burnt/stolen/etc' argument wouldn't apply to that case. But it doesn't really matter as the rules limit OoT masters to one against each master phase anyway, as you say :-) - Rafe

> In addition to the technical explaination for this that others have > contributed, I'll point something out for you: [snip] > Since people tend to think of using an OOT master at the penalty of > a master phase action in the next master phase, it's natural to assume > you're "borrowing" you next master phase action. [snip] > and then lost > your extra master phase action come the time you're expected to pay for > them. But then again playing one OOT Master is also "unsafe" borrowing of your (metusalehs) next master phase action. You might be ousted before your next turn begins. Payback is not guaranteed. Whatever ;-) -- johannes walch