rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Questions for Rulemongers!

13 messages from 8 participants · 28 July 1996 – 31 July 1996
original thread on Google Groups

Bradley Kellogg

Last night in a game, a question came up over the card Brujah Debate. I was playing a Ravnos deck and I Sensory Depped my prey's largest capacity brujah. The Brujah Debate says that the largest capacity vamp has to tap and with the sensory dep, he couldn't. What happens? Does the card fizzle? Does he meet the requirement of tapping? Thanks. Next question: What is a hand stike? This may sound like a stupid question, but some of the equipment say + X hand damage. Is that a "hand strike?" What about the card dodge, is it a hand strike? Last question: The rom gypsy can give +1 stealth to a ravnos. Is this a plus one stealth action or can my prey block the gypsy's action. If so, which combat comes first? Just dazed and confused, Br...@kellco.com

L. Scott Johnson

Bradley Kellogg <br...@rahul.net> writes: > Last night in a game, a question came up over the card Brujah Debate. I >was playing a Ravnos deck and I Sensory Depped my prey's largest capacity >brujah. The Brujah Debate says that the largest capacity vamp has to >tap and with the sensory dep, he couldn't. What happens? Does the card >fizzle? Does he meet the requirement of tapping? Thanks. He taps his Brujah (who is already tapped because of Sensory Dep.). This tapping is a side effect, not a cost, so the fact that it is performed on an already tapped Brujah doesn't negate any of the other effects of the Debate, so "yes" he meets the tapping requirements. >Next question: What is a hand stike? This may sound like a stupid >question, but some of the equipment say + X hand damage. Is that a "hand >strike?" What about the card dodge, is it a hand strike? Any "+1 hand damage" should be a hand strike, except for Tiger Claw's which has been ruled not to be a hand strike. And any "Strike: ..." that doesn't say "use your hand strike for +X damage" is *not* a hand strike. This includes most weapons, all Dodges, etc. >Last question: The rom gypsy can give +1 stealth to a ravnos. Is this a >plus one stealth action or can my prey block the gypsy's action. If so, >which combat comes first? It is not an action, any more than tapping the Backways to give a Gangrel stealth would be an action. Tapping for an effect is never an action unless the card says it is. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | "Criminal Lawyer" is redundant. http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Petri Wessman

On 29 Jul 1996 11:47:16 GMT, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) said: >> Next question: What is a hand stike? This may sound like a stupid >> question, but some of the equipment say + X hand damage. Is that a "hand >> strike?" What about the card dodge, is it a hand strike? L> Any "+1 hand damage" should be a hand strike, except for Tiger Claw's L> which has been ruled not to be a hand strike. And any "Strike: ..." L> that doesn't say "use your hand strike for +X damage" is *not* a hand L> strike. This includes most weapons, all Dodges, etc. I'm not the one who asked the original question, but after reading the above I'm a bit confused. So if I use a Bastard Sword (+1 hand damage) it's a hand strike, but if I use Tiger's Claws (+2 hand damage) it's not? Hmmmm. If someone plays an Immortal Grapple, can you still use a bastard sword? Tiger's claws? What about if someone plays Wolf's Claws, what weapons can you modify with it? What about Blood Agony (the card says something like "all hand and melee weapon strikes are aggravated")? Could someone post a definition for the terms "hand strike" and "melee weapon", please? ...and also clear up what modifiers (Wolf's Claws, Blood Agony, +X damage) can be used with which? I'm running a small Jyhad tournament next week, and I'd like to minimize the confusion :-} //Petri

The Corrupter

On 29 Jul 1996, Petri Wessman wrote: > On 29 Jul 1996 11:47:16 GMT, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) said: > > Any "+1 hand damage" should be a hand strike, except for Tiger Claw's > > which has been ruled not to be a hand strike. And any "Strike: ..." > > that doesn't say "use your hand strike for +X damage" is *not* a hand > > strike. This includes most weapons, all Dodges, etc. > I'm not the one who asked the original question, but after reading the > above I'm a bit confused. So if I use a Bastard Sword (+1 hand damage) > it's a hand strike, but if I use Tiger's Claws (+2 hand damage) it's > not? Hmmmm. Bastard sword says "Strike: +1 hand damage" ...thus a bastard sword strike does that much (+1 hand damage). However, most of the potence strikes say "use your hand at +x" or are not strikes giving +x to hand damage. They are a little different. > If someone plays an Immortal Grapple, can you still use a bastard > sword? Tiger's claws? No, and no. >What about if someone plays Wolf's Claws, what > weapons can you modify with it? Your hands, only. No equipment. > What about Blood Agony (the card says > something like "all hand and melee weapon strikes are aggravated")? This would affect both hand and melee strikes... > Could someone post a definition for the terms "hand strike" and "melee > weapon", please? ...and also clear up what modifiers (Wolf's Claws, > Blood Agony, +X damage) can be used with which? I'm running a small > Jyhad tournament next week, and I'd like to minimize the confusion :-} A hand strike is any non-ranged strike from a minion that can be made without the aid of cards. Other cards can modify this number (typically Potence cards), but if they are strike cards, they will likely be said to be modifying hand strikes, or they aren't hand strikes. As a more specific answer, there is no equipment that can be used and considered a hand strike. @ The Corrupter - Adrian Lee Sullivan @ GAT/CS/WS R+++* r(+)>++ # Gamer Coffee-Addict Scripter Author # C(+++)$ USX+$ N++ e+* @#$ Comments ? sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu $#@ tv(+)> X++ b++(+++) @#$ <http://cslab.uwlax.edu/~sulli_al/jyhad> $#@ PS+&-+ PE&-&++ z*+?

Shawn F. Carnes

Bradley Kellogg wrote: > Last night in a game, a question came up over the card Brujah Debate. I > was playing a Ravnos deck and I Sensory Depped my prey's largest capacity > brujah. The Brujah Debate says that the largest capacity vamp has to > tap and with the sensory dep, he couldn't. What happens? Does the card > fizzle? Does he meet the requirement of tapping? Thanks. Sensory Dep. states that the vampire does not untap as normal (this is the superior version of the text). Regardless of Sensory Dep., the vampire should tap because of Brujah Debate. Sensory Dep. does not prevent a vampire from tapping, just from untapping during the untap phase. > Next question: What is a hand stike? This may sound like a stupid > question, but some of the equipment say + X hand damage. Is that a "hand > strike?" What about the card dodge, is it a hand strike? A hand strike is one that does not make use of a ranged weapon. Dodge is not a "hand strike" card, but is used to completely evade an opponent's strike by using your own. > Last question: The rom gypsy can give +1 stealth to a ravnos. Is this a > plus one stealth action or can my prey block the gypsy's action. If so, > which combat comes first? The ability the Rom Gypsy has is not an action, so it really can't be blocked. > Just dazed and confused, > Br...@kellco.com -- ********************************************************************** * Shawn F. Carnes sw...@wizards.com * * Game Designer and Developer Wizards of the Coast, Inc. * ********************************************************************** * The opinions I express are mine, not Wizards of the Coast's. * ********************************************************************** * "We cannot rest, knowing that The Captain and Tennille are in good * * health!" --Milk and Cheese * **********************************************************************

Eric Pettersen

Petri....@hut.fi (Petri Wessman) wrote: > On 29 Jul 1996 11:47:16 GMT, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott > Johnson) said: > > > Any "+1 hand damage" should be a hand strike, except for Tiger Claw's > > which has been ruled not to be a hand strike. And any "Strike: ..." > > that doesn't say "use your hand strike for +X damage" is *not* a hand > > strike. This includes most weapons, all Dodges, etc. > > I'm not the one who asked the original question, but after reading the > above I'm a bit confused. So if I use a Bastard Sword (+1 hand damage) > it's a hand strike, but if I use Tiger's Claws (+2 hand damage) it's > not? Hmmmm. I must have missed this one, too. I'm absolutely certain you're correct (you are, after all, the Rules Monger) , but could you repost the ruling that clarifies that Tiger's Claws is not hand damage so that I can save it for posterity? :-) --Eric

Herve Guillemet

L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote: : Hand strike: any strike done without the aid of a 'strike' card, or : with the aid of a 'strike: use hand...' card. And what is a 'strike' card ? The only unambiguous 'strike' cards I can think of are cards that specify : "Strike: <effect>". Weapon do not say that. Take Kali's Fang, for exemple: "Minion with this weapon inflicts 2 aggravated damage with each strike." Shouldn't the definition be more something like: Hand strike: any strike done without the aid of a 'Strike:' card and without using a 'Weapon' card, unless the card specify 'use hand...'. == Hervé Guillemet

L. Scott Johnson

sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) writes: >>Could someone post a definition for the terms "hand strike" and "melee >>weapon", please? ...and also clear up what modifiers (Wolf's Claws, >>Blood Agony, +X damage) can be used with which? I'm running a small >>Jyhad tournament next week, and I'd like to minimize the confusion :-} >Hand strike: any strike done without the aid of a 'strike' card, or >with the aid of a 'strike: use hand...' card. Correction/addendum: Make that "any non-ranged strike done without...", ranged strikes aren't hand strikes (unless some future card has explicit text to the contrary). >-- >L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | In theory there is no difference >http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | between theory and practice. >Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | In theory there is no difference http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | between theory and practice. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

Petri....@hut.fi (Petri Wessman) writes: >On 29 Jul 1996 11:47:16 GMT, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) said: >>> Next question: What is a hand stike? This may sound like a stupid >>> question, but some of the equipment say + X hand damage. Is that a "hand >>> strike?" What about the card dodge, is it a hand strike? >L> Any "+1 hand damage" should be a hand strike, except for Tiger Claw's >L> which has been ruled not to be a hand strike. And any "Strike: ..." >L> that doesn't say "use your hand strike for +X damage" is *not* a hand >L> strike. This includes most weapons, all Dodges, etc. >I'm not the one who asked the original question, but after reading the >above I'm a bit confused. So if I use a Bastard Sword (+1 hand damage) >it's a hand strike, but if I use Tiger's Claws (+2 hand damage) it's >not? Hmmmm. No, neither is a hand strike. The Sword falls under the "any strike: that doesn't say 'use your hand...'" rule (above). Tiger Claws should be a hand strike by card text, but has been ruled not to be, hence the exception noted above. >If someone plays an Immortal Grapple, can you still use a bastard >sword? Tiger's claws? What about if someone plays Wolf's Claws, what >weapons can you modify with it? What about Blood Agony (the card says >something like "all hand and melee weapon strikes are aggravated")? No. No. None. All hand strikes and melee weapon strikes. >Could someone post a definition for the terms "hand strike" and "melee >weapon", please? ...and also clear up what modifiers (Wolf's Claws, >Blood Agony, +X damage) can be used with which? I'm running a small >Jyhad tournament next week, and I'd like to minimize the confusion :-} Hand strike: any strike done without the aid of a 'strike' card, or with the aid of a 'strike: use hand...' card. Melee weapon: any card that says "melee weapon" on it. [ quoted text not captured ]

Eric Pettersen

pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu (Eric Pettersen) wrote: > I must have missed this one, too. I'm absolutely certain you're correct > (you are, after all, the Rules Monger) , but could you repost the ruling > that clarifies that Tiger's Claws is not hand damage so that I can save it > for posterity? :-) Please forget this above. I had a brain spasm. Of course TC is not hand damage. I've cancelled the original. --Eric

L. Scott Johnson

pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu (Eric Pettersen) writes: >Petri....@hut.fi (Petri Wessman) wrote: >> On 29 Jul 1996 11:47:16 GMT, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott >> Johnson) said: >> >> > Any "+1 hand damage" should be a hand strike, except for Tiger Claw's >> > which has been ruled not to be a hand strike. And any "Strike: ..." >> > that doesn't say "use your hand strike for +X damage" is *not* a hand >> > strike. This includes most weapons, all Dodges, etc. >> >> I'm not the one who asked the original question, but after reading the >> above I'm a bit confused. So if I use a Bastard Sword (+1 hand damage) >> it's a hand strike, but if I use Tiger's Claws (+2 hand damage) it's >> not? Hmmmm. >I must have missed this one, too. I'm absolutely certain you're correct >(you are, after all, the Rules Monger) , but could you repost the ruling >that clarifies that Tiger's Claws is not hand damage so that I can save it >for posterity? :-) Subject: Re: Is a strike with Bang Nakh or Bstrd Swd a hand strike or no? From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Date: 1996/06/28 Message-Id: <4r1h43$4...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> References: <4qg2r8$m...@NNTP.MsState.Edu> <4qupar$g...@huey.csun.edu> Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-Cards.jyhad Using Bang Nakh's ability is considered to be striking with a weapon, so it cannot be combined with other weapons. [ quoted text not captured ]

Derick Lyle

The Corrupter wrote: > > On 29 Jul 1996, Petri Wessman wrote: > > > On 29 Jul 1996 11:47:16 GMT, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) said: > > > > Any "+1 hand damage" should be a hand strike, except for Tiger Claw's > > > which has been ruled not to be a hand strike. And any "Strike: ..." > > > that doesn't say "use your hand strike for +X damage" is *not* a hand > > > strike. This includes most weapons, all Dodges, etc. > > > I'm not the one who asked the original question, but after reading the > > above I'm a bit confused. So if I use a Bastard Sword (+1 hand damage) > > it's a hand strike, but if I use Tiger's Claws (+2 hand damage) it's > > not? Hmmmm. > > Bastard sword says "Strike: +1 hand damage" > ...thus a bastard sword strike does that much (+1 hand damage). > > However, most of the potence strikes say "use your hand at +x" or are not > strikes giving +x to hand damage. They are a little different. > > > If someone plays an Immortal Grapple, can you still use a bastard > > sword? Tiger's claws? > > No, and no. > > >What about if someone plays Wolf's Claws, what > > weapons can you modify with it? > > Your hands, only. No equipment. > > > What about Blood Agony (the card says > > something like "all hand and melee weapon strikes are aggravated")? > > This would affect both hand and melee strikes... > > > Could someone post a definition for the terms "hand strike" and "melee > > weapon", please? ...and also clear up what modifiers (Wolf's Claws, > > Blood Agony, +X damage) can be used with which? I'm running a small > > Jyhad tournament next week, and I'd like to minimize the confusion :-} > > A hand strike is any non-ranged strike from a minion that can be made > without the aid of cards. Other cards can modify this number (typically > Potence cards), but if they are strike cards, they will likely be said to > be modifying hand strikes, or they aren't hand strikes. > > As a more specific answer, there is no equipment that can be used and > considered a hand strike. Yeah? What about wooden stake? -- Dirk. Is that a dagger I see before me? Well, no, its just a small fruit knife really.

L. Scott Johnson

In article <31FEC7...@colly.com.au>, Derick Lyle <dl...@colly.com.au> wrote: >The Corrupter wrote: >[Weapons' strikes are not hand strikes] >Yeah? What about wooden stake? (I general, you don't need 49 lines of quoted message to add your one-line stand alone question). Wooden Stake's strike is not a hand strike. It just does damage equal to hand damage (possibly aggravated if hand damage is greater than one).