LotN: First Impressions

So I opened up a box of boosters today, and am pretty impressed. As noted elsewhere, in one box, I got: -33 different rares (1 each of 30, 2 each of 3 of them). -2 or 3 of each vampire. I didn't get 4 of any. I got 1 of a couple. -About 5 of each common. I got 6 of a bunch. I didn't get 7 of any. I got 3 of a few of them. I think I averaged 2 each of the Uncommon/Vampire slot cards that weren't vampires. A nice distribution, and no weird packs. In terms of the cards themselves: -Narrow Minds: I expect that this card will show up all the time, in the sense that every deck in the game that doesn't have bounce should probably be packing one of these. -Tye Cooper: Notable due to the apparent general shift in card text to include the Imbued getting hosed by things--he allows you to burn a non-ready minion as a (D) action, rather than a vampire in torpor or whatever. A good sign. -Set's Curse: Good, generally useful Ally hosing. Of which there seems to be a good deal. -Sheepdog: Weird. Isn't at +1 stealth. -Cobra Fangs: More good, generally useful anti-ally tech. Notable for having likely my favorite art in the set, due to Mike Chaney totally channeling Mike Mignola (It's totally Rasputin!) -Nest of Eagles: More movement in the direction of generally useful and effective bleed reduction. Which I am wildly pro. -Street Cred: Seems like it'll be hard to use in general, but man, what a totally hysterical illustration. -Resist Earth's Grasp: Further proof that no one will *ever* expect Alacrity! -Undying Tenacity: Just like Undead Persistance, but doubles as a press--no more need for Trap! A lot of good art, good production, and lot of good new cards. Very nice. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html "Find hungry samurai." -The Old Man

[ quoted text not captured ] > p...@lightlink.comhttp://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html > > "Find hungry samurai." > -The Old Man Everything else I can agree with. But I don't think Nest of Eagles is an effective bleed reduction card. Reduce the bleed for 1 is almost useless, and it has no other effects. Unless you expect a lot of weenie horde or ally horde, I don't see much use. And "expecting" those things is not enough for this card to make it in a lot of decks I think. Too many restrictions, some of them are not that bad or really cornercase, but still a lot of restrictions. I get the non-body essence of the Wraiths to get through walls and the knowledge of the Assamites of the location and weaknesses of the Alamut, hell, maybe they just don't want to attack it. I even get the Flying thing so no benefit from walls. But the capacity less than 6? they're smarter and find the door knob? Everyone +6 cap knows everything about the Alamut? and the defenses are that bad? Just to not doing it too powerful? I'd prefer have reduction for 2 without conditional, maybe it'd be too powerful but I don't think that as it is written it's effective or generally useful, not more than the cards we had. Rafa

On Sep 27, 4:15 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > So I opened up a box of boosters today, and am pretty impressed. As > noted elsewhere, in one box, I got: > > -33 different rares (1 each of 30, 2 each of 3 of them). Exactly the same as I got! 17 rares missing fater the 1st display. After 2nd it was down to 9. After the 3rd only one was missing. Card distribution seemed to be good, but soem rares seem to be somewhat harder to get than others so perhaps some are R1's and some R2's? At least me and workmate had a problem finding a Malajit Chandramouli... All in all great to see improvement in this department (no apparent card distribution cockups) The set also seems like a fun one -good job! Cheers, janne/Lönkka www.ahmametal.com www.myspace.com/iwearnohelmet

On 27 Sep., 10:34, lon...@dlc.fi wrote: > On Sep 27, 4:15 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > Card distribution seemed to be good, but soem rares seem to be > somewhat harder to get than others so perhaps some are R1's and some > R2's? > At least me and workmate had a problem finding a Malajit > Chandramouli... Got 1 Malajit out of 4 booster boxes. Maybe you are right with the R1/ R2 thing. I also got only 1 Cobra Fangs.

lon...@dlc.fi wrote: > Card distribution seemed to be good, but soem rares seem to be > somewhat harder to get than others so perhaps some are R1's and some > R2's? All LotN rares are the same rarity.

On Sep 27, 3:47 am, Kozkak <tecpat...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Everything else I can agree with. But I don't think Nest of Eagles is > an effective bleed reduction card. Reduce the bleed for 1 is almost > useless, and it has no other effects. Well, ya know, except for reducing the bleed by 3 in a very wide range of situations. The reduction of 1 is a nice "you can always cycle this card in case you don't have anyone to reduce by 3", but I suspect the ability to reduce bleeds by 3 will come up more than you'd expect. > Unless you expect a lot of weenie horde or ally horde, When do you *not* expect a weenie and/or ally horde? Which I suspect is the crux of the issue with the card. It reduces by 3 a bleed if it comes from an ally or a vampire with capacity below 6. The Imbued are allies. And are very effective. And keep winning tournaments. All the time. Such that folks are all like "nerf the Imbued!". Consequently, it is reasonable to expect that the Imbued will show up. Vampires with a capcity below 6? Show up all the time. I can't think of a single game of VTES I have played, well, ever, where like half the vampires at the table weren't 5 and smaller. And not 'cause they were in weenie horde decks. But 'cause 5 caps are incredibly cost effective (as you generally get 2 superior disciplines that you are using for the lowest possible price), generally speaking, so they show up all the time. I mean, like, yeah, if your local play group only ever uses huge vampires for whatever reason, then sure, it isn't going to see a lot of play. But in general, bleeds from vampires with a capacity of less than 6 happen all the time. And the Imbued are pretty common these days (heck, I have Beatrice Trembelay in, like, 6 otherwsie completely non Imbued decks currently). -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] I had a bit of an odd box with my first one. Only two duplicate rares, copies of all vampires and uncommons, but got no copies of 10 different commons. Not a big deal cause I suspect it will not be repeated in future boxes, just odd though. But it is statistically possible. -John P.

Peter D Bakija wrote: > > -Narrow Minds: I expect that this card will show up all the time, in the > sense that every deck in the game that doesn't have bounce should > probably be packing one of these. Yep, this is the card of the set for mine. I'm somewhat surprised the DNR clause wasn't a bit harsher, but won't lose any sleep over it. > -Street Cred: Seems like it'll be hard to use in general, but man, what > a totally hysterical illustration. I didn't get a single Street Cred in two entire booster boxes! I've seen the illustration though and agree. Also agreed about it being a bit corner case. Would have been a much better card if it was free IMHO - a superior discipline card should usually swing two net pool/blood. I'd also like to single out Mercury's Arrow for a bit of a "wtf?" moment. Strike:3R for celerity? Quite out of character for the discipline. Did we really need CEL/guns without the guns? Overall though I'm very impressed with many of the cards in the set. Great job. Appolonius.

On 27 sep, 07:11, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > On Sep 27, 3:47 am, Kozkak <tecpat...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Everything else I can agree with. But I don't think Nest of Eagles is > > an effective bleed reduction card. Reduce the bleed for 1 is almost > > useless, and it has no other effects. > > Well, ya know, except for reducing the bleed by 3 in a very wide range > of situations. The reduction of 1 is a nice "you can always cycle this > card in case you don't have anyone to reduce by 3", but I suspect the > ability to reduce bleeds by 3 will come up more than you'd expect. > > > Unless you expect a lot of weenie horde or ally horde, > > When do you *not* expect a weenie and/or ally horde? Which I suspect > is the crux of the issue with the card. It reduces by 3 a bleed if it > comes from an ally or a vampire with capacity below 6. The Imbued are > allies. And are very effective. And keep winning tournaments. All the > time. Such that folks are all like "nerf the Imbued!". Consequently, > it is reasonable to expect that the Imbued will show up. Vampires with > a capcity below 6? Show up all the time. I can't think of a single > game of VTES I have played, well, ever, where like half the vampires > at the table weren't 5 and smaller. And not 'cause they were in weenie > horde decks. But 'cause 5 caps are incredibly cost effective (as you > generally get 2 superior disciplines that you are using for the lowest > possible price), generally speaking, so they show up all the time. I know it's really easy to cycle it (although you have to be untapped and all) but you don't include them just because they're easy to cycle, do you? And don't get me wrong I do think that DT are creating effective cards for bleed reduction and I like it, I just don't think this is one of them. I think Aversion, Truth in Ink or Keep it Simple are just better. For example, and I know everything is different for each situation, but would you prefer this instead of TiI or KiS if you were using BH Assamites? or you'd mix them? > I mean, like, yeah, if your local play group only ever uses huge > vampires for whatever reason, then sure, it isn't going to see a lot > of play. But in general, bleeds from vampires with a capacity of less > than 6 happen all the time. And the Imbued are pretty common these > days (heck, I have Beatrice Trembelay in, like, 6 otherwsie completely > non Imbued decks currently). > > -Peter Maybe it's effective, I'm not sure, so I'm going to ask you this knowing a bit about the kind of decks you like to play, I mean combat decks. You think you'll use this card much? I'll try it out and if it is effective I'll admit it publicly :-) Rafa

[ quoted text not captured ] well TiI only reduces bleeds from vampires and KiS needs stealth to reduce anything, so both of them are useless against imbued...

On Sep 27, 10:56 pm, Appolonius <appolon...@jyhad.com> wrote: > Peter D Bakija wrote: > > > -Narrow Minds: I expect that this card will show up all the time, in the > > sense that every deck in the game that doesn't have bounce should > > probably be packing one of these. > > Yep, this is the card of the set for mine. I'm somewhat surprised the > DNR clause wasn't a bit harsher, but won't lose any sleep over it. > > > -Street Cred: Seems like it'll be hard to use in general, but man, what > > a totally hysterical illustration. > > I didn't get a single Street Cred in two entire booster boxes! I've seen > the illustration though and agree. Also agreed about it being a bit > corner case. Would have been a much better card if it was free IMHO - a > superior discipline card should usually swing two net pool/blood. The one blood cost is practically negligible if you are running Taste of Vitae to go with your Potence combat.

On Sep 27, 11:56 pm, Appolonius <appolon...@jyhad.com> wrote: > Yep, this is the card of the set for mine. I'm somewhat surprised the > DNR clause wasn't a bit harsher, but won't lose any sleep over it. Well, I think it is reasonable (the DNR) if you figure that the general idea is for the card to show up all the time--kind of an ad- hoc worldwide hosing of bounce. Which, in reality, I'd expect to happen--this card really seems like it will show up in every deck ever that doesn't have bounce in it. And as an Iconnu Event, isn't enabling all the Gehenna madness. > I didn't get a single Street Cred in two entire booster boxes! I've seen > the illustration though and agree. Also agreed about it being a bit > corner case. Would have been a much better card if it was free IMHO - a > superior discipline card should usually swing two net pool/blood. Agreed. > I'd also like to single out Mercury's Arrow for a bit of a "wtf?" > moment. Strike:3R for celerity? Quite out of character for the > discipline. Did we really need CEL/guns without the guns? Well, consider that it costs a blood (I think--it does right?)--you are playing 1 to manuever (1 blood), 1 to Blur (2 blood) and 2 more for 2 more MAs (2 more blood). So you are spending 4 blood to really wail on someone. Yeah, you could taste it back, but if they Crow you or Gun you, you might end up in torpor first. And it takes a lot of cards. And really, is it going to be *that* much more effective than a weenie CEL/pot deck with a whole lot of Pursuit and Sewer Lids? -Peter

On Sep 28, 1:32 am, Kozkak <tecpat...@hotmail.com> wrote: > I know it's really easy to cycle it (although you have to be untapped > and all) but you don't include them just because they're easy to > cycle, do you? No, you are just happy that the card was designed to always be playable. > And don't get me wrong I do think that DT are creating > effective cards for bleed reduction and I like it, I just don't think > this is one of them. Fair enough. I mean, again, if you don't ever see bleeds from 5 cap and smaller vampires and/or the Imbued, then the card is a coaster. But experience tells me that the opportunity cost for Nest of Eagles is pretty low. > For example, and I know everything is different for > each situation, but would you prefer this instead of TiI or KiS if you > were using BH Assamites? or you'd mix them? If I were making an Assamite deck that wanted bleed reduction, and had reliable BH, I'd probably mix them 50/50 (Truth and Nest) if for no other reason then being able to stack them for -5 reduction... > Maybe it's effective, I'm not sure, so I'm going to ask you this > knowing a bit about the kind of decks you like to play, I mean combat > decks. You think you'll use this card much? I don't really play the Assamites, so no. But if I did, and I was making a deck that wanted bleed reduction? I'd certainly use some-- maybe 6-8 in a deck, maybe 6 Nest and 6 Truth if I had a bunch of BH in the deck. -Peter

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:09:55 -0700, Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: >On Sep 27, 11:56 pm, Appolonius <appolon...@jyhad.com> wrote: >> Yep, this is the card of the set for mine. I'm somewhat surprised the >> DNR clause wasn't a bit harsher, but won't lose any sleep over it. > >Well, I think it is reasonable (the DNR) if you figure that the >general idea is for the card to show up all the time--kind of an ad- >hoc worldwide hosing of bounce. Which, in reality, I'd expect to >happen--this card really seems like it will show up in every deck ever >that doesn't have bounce in it. And as an Iconnu Event, isn't enabling >all the Gehenna madness. I see it as being a boon to Stealth/Power Bleeders too. That's what I was considering it for. Force your prey to expend more resources to push you on. And if it's a Gio style "block denial" deck, you're not as worried about hitting anyone but your prey. And if your Pred has to expend more to bounce to you, there's a plus too. Morgan Vening

On Sep 28, 9:34 am, Morgan Vening <mor...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 05:09:55 -0700, Peter D Bakija > I see it as being a boon to Stealth/Power Bleeders too. That's what I > was considering it for. Force your prey to expend more resources to > push you on. And if it's a Gio style "block denial" deck, you're not > as worried about hitting anyone but your prey. And if your Pred has to > expend more to bounce to you, there's a plus too. Oh, sure--I suspect that this card is going to be *huge* for power bleed decks, except that power bleed decks often also include bleed bounce themselves (due to generally having dom or AUS), so it will make their offense stronger while making their defense weaker. Unless they then shift to Narrow Minds and Telepathic Counter as bleed defense... In any case, I'd be surprised if this card does not show up (or at least have a potential to show up, i.e. be in a deck at the table) in, like, every game ever played for the rest of eternity. -Peter

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:15:33 -0400, Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote: > So I opened up a box of boosters today, and am pretty impressed. As > noted elsewhere, in one box, I got: > > -33 different rares (1 each of 30, 2 each of 3 of them). > > -2 or 3 of each vampire. I didn't get 4 of any. I got 1 of a couple. > > -About 5 of each common. I got 6 of a bunch. I didn't get 7 of any. I > got 3 of a few of them. I think I averaged 2 each of the > Uncommon/Vampire slot cards that weren't vampires. > > A nice distribution, and no weird packs. Ok, it seems you got lucky. Or I got unlucky. I opened 2 boxes and got 41 of the 50 rares - out of 72 cards. I have quite some doubles, triples, even some quadruples, and still miss a fifth of the rares. In terms of vampires, I got a reassuring 4 of everything except some of the really useful-looking guys I wanted to build decks on like Seterpenre (of whom I only got 2 copies). I did manage to get 5-6 copies of some of the less useful looking guys - the winner is Stephen Milliner at 7 copies. > In terms of the cards themselves: I'm pretty impressed by most of the actual cards, though. The print quality is good, the cards are really deck-concept-opening in some cases, and also trying to fill in some gaps one way or another. I'm mostly happy with them. Some specific points: 1. I really dig how we have some OOCs common enough to base decks on. We have 3 Ravnos with CHI DEM FOR, for example, which is just something that absolutely needs a deck built around it. 2. I don't really dig the general tendency to have some vampires so weird discipline spreads that they need a deck build around them... e.g. Durga Syn. IMHO moving away from star decks is a better way, as those decks tend to be too fragile. 3. I'm not too happy with the illustrations in the set. The characters are mostly plain ugly - not ugly in the cool vampirish kind of sense, but in the just plain ugly sense. There are some superb illustrations in there as well - e.g. Alu, Ganesh, Thucimia, Belle Equitone, etc. 4. The library card illustrations are ok, and I did see some eye-candy that is just excellent, e.g. Promis, Eternals, Nest of Eagles, Street Cred (sheer hilarity), etc. 5. I'm not happy with the way the old power-curve cards are being dethroned. Specials to burn Blood Dolls, cards to burn Hunting Grounds... And of course Vessel. I'm pretty unhappy about that card. I'm afraid it will kill Blood Dolls, which might be a good thing overall, but I honestly doubt it. Time will tell... 6. I've mixed feelings regarding the reprints. Some of them I whole-heartedly welcome - e.g. you can never have too many Weighted Walking Sticks, Pursuits, Black Sunrises, Apparitions. But for my taste I saw too much of reprinting cards that are ok, but not in high demand to begin with, being of narrow use like Crocodile Temple, which you either don't plan to use at all, or could probably trade for it already. Creating excess supply just depreciates the card and makes sure most of the copies in circulation will stay unused. E.g. similar situation with the Paths - 1 copy would be ok, I think, in each deck, but to have 2 copies in most of them? I'm not putting in more than 1-2 paths in the average Ravnos deck even if I plan to use costly cards... I don't see how I'll be able to use (or trade away), say, 4 Path of Paradox cards (assuming buying only 2 starters). Still overall I think this was a good set. I'm looking forward to building some decks from these cards, they got me swarming with ideas. -- Regards, Daneel

"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message news:optzfsc1...@news.chello.hu... > On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:15:33 -0400, Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> > wrote: > >> So I opened up a box of boosters today, and am pretty impressed. As >> noted elsewhere, in one box, I got: >> >> -33 different rares (1 each of 30, 2 each of 3 of them). >> >> -2 or 3 of each vampire. I didn't get 4 of any. I got 1 of a couple. >> >> -About 5 of each common. I got 6 of a bunch. I didn't get 7 of any. I >> got 3 of a few of them. I think I averaged 2 each of the >> Uncommon/Vampire slot cards that weren't vampires. >> >> A nice distribution, and no weird packs. > > Ok, it seems you got lucky. Or I got unlucky. I opened 2 boxes and got > 41 of the 50 rares - out of 72 cards. I have quite some doubles, > triples, even some quadruples, and still miss a fifth of the rares. I expect that's entirely possible no matter how hard White Wolf's printer tries to spread the distribution. They can deliberately pack 36 consectutive rares in 36 consecutive boosters that occupy a single booster box but if you buy two booster boxes which begin near the same part of the set order of packed rares (which I expect must exist since that's the only reasonably easy way to insure smooth distribution of rares) then you'll get a lot of doubles between the two boxes. > 6. I've mixed feelings regarding the reprints. Some of them I > whole-heartedly welcome - e.g. you can never have too many > Weighted Walking Sticks, Pursuits, Black Sunrises, Apparitions. Ahem...Conditionings! Haven't been reprinted since CE. I was also happy to see a few of the better "effectively" rarer-than-rare cards from Third Edition that should be freely available, like Wash and Frontal Assault. There were some other things I saw in Los Angeles (like Shambling Hordes) that made me happy but, alas, no Unmasking nor Heart of Nizchetus. I plug my ears to drown out the screaming to reprint these overpriced, underprinted rares. :-P > But for my taste I saw too much of reprinting cards that are > ok, but not in high demand to begin with, being of narrow use > like Crocodile Temple, which you either don't plan to use at > all, or could probably trade for it already. Creating excess > supply just depreciates the card and makes sure most of the > copies in circulation will stay unused. E.g. similar situation > with the Paths - 1 copy would be ok, I think, in each deck, > but to have 2 copies in most of them? I'm not putting in more > than 1-2 paths in the average Ravnos deck even if I plan to > use costly cards... I don't see how I'll be able to use (or > trade away), say, 4 Path of Paradox cards (assuming buying > only 2 starters). You don't think you can move Path of Paradox?!? Holy shit, I can't believe it! Path of Paradox and Path of Bone were rares in Final Nights - and they're hardly narrow cards. (I put 7 Path of Paradox in one of my Ravnos Sensory Deprivation decks.) Remember, between the Final Nights rares and these precon decks are the entire supply of Ravnos and Giovanni Paths for every Ravnos/Giovanni deck in existance! I'm sorry, printing two copies of Path of Paradox and Bone was hardly going out on a limb. Anyway, to get back to your main point, don't forget people bash White Wolf when the starter decks don't play worth shit in limited tournaments. They have to be at least somewhat coherent and balanced in their content besides addressing the players' needs for card reprints. I'd guess its a difficult, damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't kind of job to choose what goes in them. > Still overall I think this was a good set. I'm looking forward > to building some decks from these cards, they got me swarming > with ideas. Agreed. I like this set. Fred

On Sep 29, 6:20 pm, Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote: > Ok, it seems you got lucky. Or I got unlucky. I opened 2 boxes and got > 41 of the 50 rares - out of 72 cards. I have quite some doubles, > triples, even some quadruples, and still miss a fifth of the rares. > > In terms of vampires, I got a reassuring 4 of everything except some > of the really useful-looking guys I wanted to build decks on like > Seterpenre (of whom I only got 2 copies). I did manage to get 5-6 > copies of some of the less useful looking guys - the winner is > Stephen Milliner at 7 copies. > Same here. After two booster boxes, I have: Rares: 0-3 of each. 0: Command the Legion, Mokole Blood, Poison the Well of Life, and Trophy: Library. 3: The Black Throne, Powerbase: Savannah, and Retain the Quick Blood. Uncommons: 4-6 of each except: Jamal (2), Seterpenre (2), and Stephen Milliner (7). Commons: 9-12 of each except: Army of Apparitions (5), Fillip (5), Street Cred (5), Undying Tenacity (6). Using my limited knowledge of card printing (and my strong knowledge of Statistics), I'm guessing that these guys are the four corners of the Common Sheet. Good news is that AoA and Fillip are also in the starters. Bad news is that Dream World, Eluding the Arms of Morpheus, Murmur of the False Will, and Revelation of Ecstasy would have made far better choices. -- - Gregory Stuart Pettigrew

On Sep 30, 4:49 pm, "gpettig...@gmail.com" <gpettig...@gmail.com> wrote: > Same here. After two booster boxes, I have: > > Rares: 0-3 of each. > 0: Command the Legion, Mokole Blood, Poison the Well of Life, and > Trophy: Library. > 3: The Black Throne, Powerbase: Savannah, and Retain the Quick Blood. > > Uncommons: 4-6 of each except: > Jamal (2), Seterpenre (2), and Stephen Milliner (7). > > Commons: 9-12 of each except: > Army of Apparitions (5), Fillip (5), Street Cred (5), Undying Tenacity > (6). > > Using my limited knowledge of card printing (and my strong knowledge > of Statistics), I'm guessing that these guys are the four corners of > the Common Sheet. Good news is that AoA and Fillip are also in the > starters. Bad news is that Dream World, Eluding the Arms of Morpheus, > Murmur of the False Will, and Revelation of Ecstasy would have made > far better choices. > > -- > - Gregory Stuart Pettigrew PS - http://trade.mahasamatman.com/VTES/ is updated with Lords of the Night.

I'm very surprised there is so little talk about Agent of Power. I'm going gaga over this card. You can leverage it with bloodlines. You can leverage it with anarchs. You can go nuts with Ian Forestal. You can use it with those vampires with miscellaneous thn. Every vampire that you went, "well if only he had that at superior..." now works. It's a trifle. You can always play it as long as you have a ready vampire. You can use it to *bluff* a conditioning "yes, naming dominate." It's limited, but it's a huge improvement over Elder Vitae, etc... Cheers, Dai

On Sep 29, 7:19 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > "Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message > > news:optzfsc1...@news.chello.hu...> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 21:15:33 -0400, Peter D Bakija > > <p...@lightlink.com> > > > > > wrote: > > >> So I opened up a box of boosters today, and am pretty impressed. As > >> noted elsewhere, in one box, I got: > > >> -33 different rares (1 each of 30, 2 each of 3 of them). > > >> -2 or 3 of each vampire. I didn't get 4 of any. I got 1 of a couple. > > >> -About 5 of each common. I got 6 of a bunch. I didn't get 7 of any. I > >> got 3 of a few of them. I think I averaged 2 each of the > >> Uncommon/Vampire slot cards that weren't vampires. > > >> A nice distribution, and no weird packs. > > > Ok, it seems you got lucky. Or I got unlucky. I opened 2 boxes and got > > 41 of the 50 rares - out of 72 cards. I have quite some doubles, > > triples, even some quadruples, and still miss a fifth of the rares. > > I expect that's entirely possible no matter how hard White Wolf's > printer tries to spread the distribution. They can deliberately pack > 36 consectutive rares in 36 consecutive boosters that occupy a single > booster box but if you buy two booster boxes which begin near the same > part of the set order of packed rares (which I expect must exist since > that's the only reasonably easy way to insure smooth distribution of > rares) then you'll get a lot of doubles between the two boxes. > I went to the printers in Dallas for the collation/sorting step for Lords of the Night. 3 days of tweaking the distribution till it was satisfactory. It can't ever be perfect, but I tried to get it as close as possible. Oscar Garza Organized Play Coordinator CCP NA|White Wolf

On Oct 1, 3:21 pm, OrgPlay <orgp...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > I went to the printers in Dallas for the collation/sorting step for > Lords of the Night. 3 days of tweaking the distribution till it was > satisfactory. It can't ever be perfect, but I tried to get it as close > as possible. > > Oscar Garza > Organized Play Coordinator > CCP NA|White Wolf Hands-on quality control, thats the way!!!! Congrats on an awesome expansion...

[ quoted text not captured ] It's even more negligible if you are using Mitru the Hunter or Miller Delmardigan. Either one can Arrow for free, Blur for free, two more Arrows for free. 9 Damage, from multiple strikes (i.e. beats dodge), at close or long, for no cost. Beaten by grapple and TB but that's about it. How about a combat module along the lines of: 20 Arrow 8 Blur 12 Psyche Maybe a few sideslip for aggropoke? Or just Flak Jacket / Guardian Angel...

[ quoted text not captured ] Yeah I guess it's kinda cool. I can see some use for it in decks that are using outferiors of bloodlines cards; occassionally you can throw someone a curveball and name the inferior bloodline discipline. Unfortunately, most of the outferior effects are complete crap, but there are a few great ones out there, like Clotho's Gift. Use it to bring out your weenie horde... or sometimes name Temporis and use it as a govern down!! Or Rockheart; I know a guy who uses it nicely with Valerius Maior to get an additional strike. Give Valerius Vis for a turn and his Rockhearts can now either be a dodge, or a prevent, up to you! Ian Forestal could be interesting, especially with the bloodlines disciplines that are massively powerful at super, like Obeah and Temporis (hmm has the time finally come for the Quicksilver Contemplation deck, people?). Is this generally worth a card slot though? Not sure, time will tell.

On Oct 2, 9:56 am, leon.tran...@gmail.com wrote: > On Sep 28, 5:29 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: [Street Cred discussion] > > The one blood cost is practically negligible if you are running Taste > > of Vitae to go with your Potence combat. > > It's even more negligible if you are using Mitru the Hunter or Miller > Delmardigan. Except that they have absolutely no Street Cred unless you give them Potence first... even if they can Blur and Mercury's Arrow all day. Personally, I'm not big on the Blur + Arrow/no need for guns Celerity combat idea. Blur is going to give you a lot of strikes, and I'd rather not rely on having strike cards for all those strikes[1]. With Blur, I want a reliable source of lots of ranged strikes... and that's what guns are. Brent Ross [1] Not to mention that you forgot maneuvers in your package... superior Arrow is just 3R damage, only the inferior 1R comes with a maneuver, meaning that you'd probably be doing 7 damage, not 9 when you pull off that 4 card combo.

On Sep 30, 4:49 pm, "gpettig...@gmail.com" <gpettig...@gmail.com> wrote: > Uncommons: 4-6 of each except: > Jamal (2), Seterpenre (2), and Stephen Milliner (7). > > Commons: 9-12 of each except: > Army of Apparitions (5), Fillip (5), Street Cred (5), Undying Tenacity > (6). > > Using my limited knowledge of card printing (and my strong knowledge > of Statistics), I'm guessing that these guys are the four corners of > the Common Sheet. Good news is that AoA and Fillip are also in the > starters. Bad news is that Dream World, Eluding the Arms of Morpheus, > Murmur of the False Will, and Revelation of Ecstasy would have made > far better choices. Just thought I'd add that that's probably a good guess. There's certainly something up with these particular cards, because the two boxes I have exhibit the same pattern: - remarkably low Army, Fillip, Street Cred, Undying Tenacity - 1 Jamal and 1 Seterpenre in each box (and Stephen was one of 5 vampires tied at the top at 6) - my rares are a bit different than yours but that's a very small sample anyways. Someone out there has to be getting a lot of these "pseudo-rare" cards. By the looks of things it appears that patterns in this set occur in blocks, which is going to make it hard to trade locally to fill those gaps at least in the short term. At the very least, the printer should probably look at what's special about these cards... it's very much a pattern, just not one that's as bad as those Vampire filled boxes we've heard about. Oh, and one other oddity to note: my Ravnos starter was short one Durga Syn. So if you haven't carefully checked your starters, you might want to at least run a quick count because there might be problems there. Brent Ross

On Oct 3, 11:40 pm, bwross wrote: > On Sep 30, 4:49 pm, "gpettig...@gmail.com" wrote: > > > Uncommons: 4-6 of each except: > > Jamal (2), Seterpenre (2), and Stephen Milliner (7). > > > Commons: 9-12 of each except: > > Army of Apparitions (5), Fillip (5), Street Cred (5), Undying Tenacity > > (6). > > > Using my limited knowledge of card printing (and my strong knowledge > > of Statistics), I'm guessing that these guys are the four corners of > > the Common Sheet. (...) > Just thought I'd add that that's probably a good guess. There's > certainly something up with these particular cards, because the two > boxes I have exhibit the same pattern: > - remarkably low Army, Fillip, Street Cred, Undying Tenacity > - 1 Jamal and 1 Seterpenre in each box (and Stephen was one of 5 > vampires tied at the top at 6) After my first box, I noticed a similar pattern: - I have 5-6 of every common, except Quick Jab and Resist Earth's Grasp (4), Street Cred (2), and Undying Tenacity (0) - the latter two being remarkably under the box average. - I have 2-4 of almost every vampire. 2 is the most common occurence, for 31 vampires. The only exceptions are precisely Jamal and Seterpenre, with only 1 copy each. > - my rares are a bit different than yours but that's a very small > sample anyways. - I got 35 distinct rares, which is almost perfect distribution-wise. - I got two copies of each library uncommon, which I believe is pretty good. In this regard, it was one of the best boxes I've ever opened. Great job, Oscar and WW. Abraço, Luiz Mello Brazil VTES NC -- IV Brazilian National Championship Vitória, October 12th to 14th, 2007 http://cbr2007.vtesbrasil.com