rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Two Questions...

8 messages from 5 participants · 16 May 1995 – 19 May 1995
original thread on Google Groups

James R. McClure Jr.

umle...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Colin Lee) wrote: >#1 A vampire has an assault rifle...in combat he\she plays >blur(superior)...does the vampire dish out a horrendous 12 >points of damage...or do you only get to shoot once and then >use the other 2 for normal(?) hand strikes...? Peace Colin, Yes, you can use an Assault Rifle as your Additional Strike(s). Yes, you can do 12 damage that way. >#2 When a vampire gets an additional strike does that vampire >get to use additional strike cards...ie Long Range, Blur(superior) >could the vamp throw 3 sewer lids doing a total of 9 damage (or worse >yet throw three cars??) Yes, you may play any legal strike card for each Addditional Strike that you have. Yes, you can throw three sewer lids [or three cards, if at long range on the second or subsequent round of combat] >And finally could someone explain Trap to me...in detail? It seems >a bit confusing... The Trap card does two things. 1) counts the number of rounds that have passed in which NO combat cards have been played (when this number reaches three the Trap card expires) and 2) "plays" a Press to continue combat during the Press stage until one (or both) of the combatants goes to torpor or the Trap expires. Nil carborundum illigitimi, James R. McClure Jr. The OS/2 Apostle <insert disclaimer here>

Owen Reynolds

>And finally could someone explain Trap to me...in detail? It seems >a bit confusing... I'll add some more questions: o When it thinks about adding a press, does it count the current round as being over? This is a tricky one, since the answer most people use is actually "yes." Rounds 2, 3 and 4 happen with no cards played, and then at the end of 4, the Trap is assumed to count round 4 as being over, when it clearly isn't (since pressing to continue is part of the round.) o Do they have to be consequetive(sp?)? Is this rules lawyering or have we been making Trap be faaar more powerful than it was meant to be. o Do the presses froom a Trap count as being your presses? It's your card, so maybe they should. That would mean you can't press to end your own trap (which would balance the card a bit more considering it often replaces 2-4 presses in someone's deck.)

L. Scott Johnson

In article <3p9rr4$h...@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, Colin Lee <umle...@cc.umanitoba.ca> wrote: >#1 A vampire has an assault rifle...in combat he\she plays >blur(superior)...does the vampire dish out a horrendous 12 >points of damage...or do you only get to shoot once and then >use the other 2 for normal(?) hand strikes...? A weapon can be used for a strike any number of times in a round, so yes - 12 damage. (Except Shotgun and Chainsaw - card text). > >#2 When a vampire gets an additional strike does that vampire >get to use additional strike cards...ie Long Range, Blur(superior) >could the vamp throw 3 sewer lids doing a total of 9 damage (or worse >yet throw three cars??) Strike cards may be used for every strike, so yes - 9 damage (12 from cars), with 3 optional presses if superior. > >And finally could someone explain Trap to me...in detail? It seems >a bit confusing... The Trap provides each round with a Press (to continue). It will only provide one such press each round. If either minion wishes to cancel the press (with a Press (to end)), that's perfectly acceptable. The trap will provide its Press provided that the current round is *not* the third consecutive round which has passed since the last round in which a Methuselah played a card (playing the Trap itself counts as a card played, so a minimum of four rounds of combat will occur if no further cards are played). Going to torpor or playing Strike: Combat Ends or tapping the Elysium or Mariel will end the combat outright. -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger | and subject to card text

Shane Travis

Owen Reynolds (reyn...@cs.iastate.edu) wrote: : >And finally could someone explain Trap to me...in detail? It seems : >a bit confusing... : I'll add some more questions: : o When it thinks about adding a press, does it count the current round : as being over? The official take on Trap is this (assume no combat cards are played after the first round): Turn 1: Trap played, so at least one card was played. Trap provides a press. Turn 2: No cards played. First turn with no cards. Trap provides a press. Turn 3: No cards played. Second turn with no cards. Trap provides a press. Turn 4: No cards played. Third turn with no cards. Conditions fulfilled, so Trap provides no presses. This is the official answer from the DT. Yes, a case can (easily) be made that there should be _five_ rounds of combat if no cards are played, (since the 'check for press' part of the round is still part of the round) but the ruling says four. : o Do they have to be consequetive(sp?)? Is this rules lawyering or : have we been making Trap be faaar more powerful than it was meant : to be. Yes: turns must be consecutive. If two turns pass and then a card is played, the 'counter' resets to zero. : o Do the presses froom a Trap count as being your presses? The presses from a Trap are not considered to be played bye either player, but rather are provided by the card itself. This means that either player can play a press to end combat, with first choice going (as always) to the acting player. Shane H.W. Travis | Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for tra...@duke.usask.ca | thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Hebrews 13:2

James R. McClure Jr.

reyn...@cs.iastate.edu (Owen Reynolds) wrote: >o When it thinks about adding a press, does it count the current round > as being over? > > This is a tricky one, since the answer most people use is actually >"yes." Rounds 2, 3 and 4 happen with no cards played, and then at the >end of 4, the Trap is assumed to count round 4 as being over, when it >clearly isn't (since pressing to continue is part of the round.) Peace Owen, This is the official ruling on Trap, that is: it last four rounds if no one else plays any other cards. If you can't acccomplish something in four rounds, then you deck isn't designed for combat and shouldn't have Traps in it. >o Do they have to be consequetive(sp?)? Is this rules lawyering or > have we been making Trap be faaar more powerful than it was meant > to be. Yes, the three turns must be consequetive (sp). Yes, Trap is powerful. >o Do the presses froom a Trap count as being your presses? > > It's your card, so maybe they should. That would mean you can't >press to end your own trap (which would balance the card a bit more >considering it often replaces 2-4 presses in someone's deck.) No, the presses come from the Trap itself. The 'owner' of the Trap may press to end combat. [ quoted text not captured ]

Owen Reynolds

>>o When [trap] thinks about adding a press, does it count the current round >> as being over? >This is the official ruling on Trap, that is: it last four rounds if no one >else plays any other cards. I'm not the first person to ask this -- does anyone know if the DT is aware they are reading the card wrong? Otherwise they could come out tomorrow and say "our mistake -- we just realized combat lasts for 5 rounds after actually reading the card. Sorry." Don't get me wrong -- I think 3 extra rounds are plenty, but the silly card plainly says 4 extra ones once you think about it. >If you can't acccomplish something in four rounds, >then you deck isn't designed for combat and shouldn't have Traps in it. I actually have a weenie-bleeder deck that uses Undead Persistance/ Trap/Rapid-Healing as a way of dealing with blockers I really don't like. With luck, of course, I'll get my opponent to even play the Trap, thus my 3rd question. And, yes, it is rude to insult someone's Jyhad deck merely because they asked a question. >>o Do they have to be consequetive(sp?)? Is this rules lawyering or >> have we been making Trap be faaar more powerful than it was meant >> to be. >Yes, the three turns must be consequetive (sp). Yes, Trap is powerful. Is this a DTR, though? The card works perfectly well if Trap merely counts any 3 rounds. Pretend you're playing someone who sees it this way. What do you say to them to convince them it must be 3 rounds in a row? I can't think of anything. >>o Do the presses froom a Trap count as being your presses? >No, the presses come from the Trap itself. The 'owner' of the Trap may press >to end combat. This makes it more clear to me that under a consistant reading, you _cannot_ press to end your own Trap. Under that logic, a press to continue comes from a DeadEnd that I played. The owner of the DeadEnd may then press to end combat. The only workable definition of "your" as in "You cannot cancel your own presses/maneuvers" seems to be "coming from a card that you control."

Shane Travis

Owen Reynolds (reyn...@cs.iastate.edu) wrote: : I'm not the first person to ask this -- does anyone know if the DT : is aware they are reading the card wrong? Otherwise they could come out : tomorrow and say "our mistake -- we just realized combat lasts for 5 : rounds after actually reading the card. Sorry." We mere mortals cannot fathom the intricate and convoluted workings of the DT, but this is definitely the ruling. As to why... Better to ask them what the latest ruling is on Rotschreck. :-) : >Yes, the three turns must be consequetive (sp). Yes, Trap is powerful. : Is this a DTR, though? The card works perfectly well if Trap merely : counts any 3 rounds. CTR states that three consecutive rounds must pass. : Pretend you're playing someone who sees it this way. What do you say : to them to convince them it must be 3 rounds in a row? I can't think of : anything. Because it is worded ambiguously and there had to be a decision made somewhere? Seriously, there should really be no problem with a house rule stating that the rounds need not be consecutive. Look at it this way; in either case, there are going to be at least four rounds of combat. Since no cards are played (or the round doesn't count) then little or no damage is going to be prevented in those four specific rounds (Flak Jacket notwithstanding...) This means that each vampire will likely take at least 4 blood worth of damage, which will send smaller/wounded vamps to Torpor. I have only ever seen 2 Traps play out to completion without either Vamp going to torpor; usually the person who plays it is ready to take advantage of it or the Trap is ended by someone with a press. : >>o Do the presses froom a Trap count as being your presses? : >No, the presses come from the Trap itself. The 'owner' of the Trap may press : >to end combat. : This makes it more clear to me that under a consistant reading, you : _cannot_ press to end your own Trap. Consistent with _what_, pray tell? : Under that logic, a press to continue : comes from a DeadEnd that I played. The owner of the DeadEnd may then : press to end combat. Fallacious reasoning. Trap is played _on the combat_, whereas all other presses are played _by a minion_. Very different kettle of fish. Card Text: "Combat automatically has a press, only usable to continue combat each round. This continues until 3 rounds of combat pass with no cards being played." Again, from the DT - the press in this combat is provided by the Trap Card, and not the Meth. The card is very specifically worded; if it meant to give the playing Meth a press, it would say something like, "Methuselah playing the Trap has one press per round, only usable to continue combat." It does not say that, and so this is not what happens. [ quoted text not captured ]

Jonathan Ackerman

>#1 A vampire has an assault rifle...in combat he\she plays >blur(superior)...does the vampire dish out a horrendous 12 >points of damage...or do you only get to shoot once and then >use the other 2 for normal(?) hand strikes...? The card says that it is 4R EACH STRIKE. >#2 When a vampire gets an additional strike does that vampire >get to use additional strike cards...ie Long Range, Blur(superior) >could the vamp throw 3 sewer lids doing a total of 9 damage (or worse >yet throw three cars??) For each STRIKE you can play a strike card. O------------------O-------------------------O----------------------O |Jonathan Ackerman | Email: ja...@iconz.co.nz | File Not Found. | | | Snail: 7a Polygon Road | Should I Fake It ? | | | O------------------O-------------------------O----------------------O