We were playing a twisted variant of Jyhad last night and some general
questions came up:
+ Can you commit suicide (transfer all of your pool to a minion with a
Blood Doll, for example)?
+ Archon: the card reads "any vampire". Can a meth with an Archon
attack his/her own vampires?
+ Malkavian Prank: the card says "each Methuselah". Does the meth
playing the card also take 1-4 blood and "guess" the amount?
//Petri
Petri Wessman (Petri....@hut.fi) wrote:
: We were playing a twisted variant of Jyhad last night and some general
: questions came up:: + Can you commit suicide (transfer all of your pool to a minion with a
: Blood Doll, for example)?
This is a time-honored practice in our group (though a more usual way
to do it is by transferring to uncontrolled vampires). Sort of like
mana-burn suicides in That Other Game.
: + Archon: the card reads "any vampire". Can a meth with an Archon
: attack his/her own vampires?
Why not? I can think of several situations in which I'd like to see
one of my own vampires torpored, and if my opponent keeps dodging out
of the way I might want to do it myself.
: + Malkavian Prank: the card says "each Methuselah". Does the meth: playing the card also take 1-4 blood and "guess" the amount?
Nope. The Malk player only joins the party in Game of Malkav.
- Neil
--
nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu, lentus in umbra | nudus ara, sere nudus...
in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
Petri....@hut.fi (Petri Wessman) writes:
>We were playing a twisted variant of Jyhad last night and some general
>questions came up:>+ Can you commit suicide (transfer all of your pool to a minion with a
> Blood Doll, for example)?
Of course. Calling a Domain Challenge to oust yourself as well as
your Prey is not unheard of in my group. And there's the old example
of ousting yourself by equipping with Vast Wealth and drawing an
equipment that costs too much.
>+ Archon: the card reads "any vampire". Can a meth with an Archon
> attack his/her own vampires?
Well, A, it has errata that the attack is a (D) action, and as
such cannot be directed toward your own cards. And, B, you can
never get into combat with nor Bleed yourself under any circumstances.
>+ Malkavian Prank: the card says "each Methuselah". Does the meth
> playing the card also take 1-4 blood and "guess" the amount?
Heh. I'm sure the answer is no. It says "guess how much is in each
Methuselah's hand", but it starts with "All *other* Methuselahs hold between
1 and 4 blood" [emphasis mine]. So, while you could guess for yourself, you
would not be holding anything - and so would gain or lose zero, respectively.
Good try, though :-)
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and
http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text.
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:>>>+ Archon: the card reads "any vampire". Can a meth with an Archon
>>> attack his/her own vampires?>>Well, A, it has errata that the attack is a (D) action, and as
>>such cannot be directed toward your own cards. And, B, you can
>>never get into combat with nor Bleed yourself under any circumstances.>Well, neither of those is technically impossible. The card set is just
>engineered to avoid that sort of thing, is all.
Eh?
You have said "(D) actions cannot be directed at oneself unless card text
indicates that it can be self-directed <4ar27a$q...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>".
Was that a mistake?
And are you saying that some card may eventually allow me to attack
my own minion? Combat with oneself is patently against the mechanics
of the game.
As far as Bleeding yourself, that is a longstanding rule:
From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie)
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
Subject: DESIGN TEAM RULINGS: 5/9/95
Date: 9 May 1995 07:17:48 GMT
Message-ID: <3on4us$l...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
5) If an action card such as Computer Hacking provides a directed
bleed, you may bleed any player other than yourself.
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>>>...B, you can>>>never get into combat with nor Bleed yourself under any circumstances.>>Well, neither of those is technically impossible. The card set is just
>>engineered to avoid that sort of thing, is all.>Eh?
>You have said "(D) actions cannot be directed at oneself unless card text
>indicates that it can be self-directed <4ar27a$q...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>".
>Was that a mistake?
No. As I said, the card set is just *engineered* to avoid attacking
your own minions, and a large part of that is making all attacks directed.
>And are you saying that some card may eventually allow me to attack
>my own minion? Combat with oneself is patently against the mechanics
>of the game.
It's against the design of the game, but not against the mechanics of the
game. While I doubt we would print a card that simply let you attack your
own minions, if someone found a tortured combination of three or four cards
that wound up letting you attack one of your own, there wouldn't be any
(meta)rule stopping you.
>As far as Bleeding yourself, that is a longstanding rule:> 5) If an action card such as Computer Hacking provides a directed
> bleed, you may bleed any player other than yourself.
Again, it's a design issue, not a mechanics issue. While we don't intend
to ever let you flatly bleed yourself, there wouldn't be anything stopping
obscure card combos from allowing this.
Let me emphasize: I don't expect us to ever allow a player to attack his or
her own minions, or bleed his or her own pool. But that's purely a design
issue, not a mechanics issue.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote:
[lots of explaination omitted]
>Let me emphasize: I don't expect us to ever allow a player to attack his or
>her own minions, or bleed his or her own pool. But that's purely a design
>issue, not a mechanics issue.
Peace Thom,
Well, you should make it a rule that (D) actions can NEVER be directed at
yourself. This prevents/eliminates all sorts of silliness. Being able
to attack yourself could easily be distorted as could bleeding oneself.
Nil carborundum illigitimi,
James R. McClure Jr.
The OS/2 Apostle
<insert disclaimer here>
L. Scott Johnson <sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>>+ Archon: the card reads "any vampire". Can a meth with an Archon
>> attack his/her own vampires?>Well, A, it has errata that the attack is a (D) action, and as>such cannot be directed toward your own cards. And, B, you can>never get into combat with nor Bleed yourself under any circumstances.
Well, neither of those is technically impossible. The card set is just
engineered to avoid that sort of thing, is all.
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote:
: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
: >Well, neither of those is technically impossible. The card set is just: >engineered to avoid that sort of thing, is all.: Eh?: As far as Bleeding yourself, that is a longstanding rule:: From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie): Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
: Subject: DESIGN TEAM RULINGS: 5/9/95
: Date: 9 May 1995 07:17:48 GMT
: Message-ID: <3on4us$l...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>:
: 5) If an action card such as Computer Hacking provides a directed: bleed, you may bleed any player other than yourself.
Yeah, but what if you direct the bleed at your predator, and they deflect
it to you? In which case you would bleed yourself, wouldn't you?
-James
Hi James,
On 10 Jan 1996, James Puzzo wrote:
>
> L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote:
> : aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
> :> : 5) If an action card such as Computer Hacking provides a directed
> : bleed, you may bleed any player other than yourself.
>
> Yeah, but what if you direct the bleed at your predator, and they deflect
> it to you? In which case you would bleed yourself, wouldn't you?
>
Actually, I belive both of the bleed bounce cards say that you
can't deflect - misdirect it back at the acting Methuselah.
Algustas
*****If there is a wrong way to do something, then someone will do
it.***** Edward A. Murphy, Jr.
In article <4cuu63$1...@hermes.louisville.edu>,
jmcc...@e-mail.kdp-baptist.louisville.edu says...
>
>aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote:
>[lots of explaination omitted]>>Let me emphasize: I don't expect us to ever allow a player to attack his or
>>her own minions, or bleed his or her own pool. But that's purely a design
>>issue, not a mechanics issue.>
>Peace Thom,
>
>Well, you should make it a rule that (D) actions can NEVER be directed at
>yourself. This prevents/eliminates all sorts of silliness. Being able
>to attack yourself could easily be distorted as could bleeding oneself.
It's be handy for getting rid of Charnas though... :)
Richard
--
"A Smith & Wesson beats four aces"
ric...@onechip.co.uk
jam...@gw.digibd.com (James Puzzo) writes:
>L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote:>: As far as Bleeding yourself, that is a longstanding rule:>: 5) If an action card such as Computer Hacking provides a directed
>: bleed, you may bleed any player other than yourself.>Yeah, but what if you direct the bleed at your predator, and they deflect
>it to you? In which case you would bleed yourself, wouldn't you?
Sure, except that card text on deflection expressly prohibits this, as well.
There is currently no convolution of cards and/or other events that will
permit you to bleed yourself, even though the rules don't disallow the
possibility of future card convolutions doing so.
[ quoted text not captured ]
James R. McClure Jr. (jmcc...@e-mail.kdp-baptist.louisville.edu) wrote:
: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote:
: [lots of explaination omitted]
: >Let me emphasize: I don't expect us to ever allow a player to attack his or
: >her own minions, or bleed his or her own pool. But that's purely a design
: >issue, not a mechanics issue.: Peace Thom,: Well, you should make it a rule that (D) actions can NEVER be directed at
: yourself. This prevents/eliminates all sorts of silliness. Being able
: to attack yourself could easily be distorted as could bleeding oneself.:
Good idea,
but then they would have to change the card text on at least
Rampage. In the next Edition, maybe?
Martin
--
Martin Engelhardt mer...@fim1.informatik.uni-mannheim.de
GB/GCS d? p+ c++++(++) l u+ e++/* m+(-) s /+ !n h f++ !g w- t++ r++ y@
jam...@gw.digibd.com (James Puzzo) wrote:
->
-> L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote:
-> : As far as Bleeding yourself, that is a longstanding rule:
->
-> : From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie)
-> : Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
-> : Subject: DESIGN TEAM RULINGS: 5/9/95
-> : Date: 9 May 1995 07:17:48 GMT
-> : Message-ID: <3on4us$l...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
-> :
-> : 5) If an action card such as Computer Hacking provides a directed
-> : bleed, you may bleed any player other than yourself.
->
-> Yeah, but what if you direct the bleed at your predator, and they deflect
-> it to you? In which case you would bleed yourself, wouldn't you?
->
The text of Deflection disallows this.
--Eric
mer...@pips01.informatik.uni-mannheim.de (Martin Engelhardt) wrote:
>James R. McClure Jr. (jmcc...@e-mail.kdp-baptist.louisville.edu) wrote:
>: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote:
>: [lots of explaination omitted]
>: >Let me emphasize: I don't expect us to ever allow a player to attack his or
>: >her own minions, or bleed his or her own pool. But that's purely a design
>: >issue, not a mechanics issue.
>>: Well, you should make it a rule that (D) actions can NEVER be directed at
>: yourself. This prevents/eliminates all sorts of silliness. Being able
>: to attack yourself could easily be distorted as could bleeding oneself.
>:
>Good idea,
>
>but then they would have to change the card text on at least
>Rampage. In the next Edition, maybe?
Peace Martin,
We already play Rampage as an undirected action at +1 stealth, when used
on one of the locations you control, though I've yet to see a reason to.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <4d0s09$d...@gw.dgii.com>, jam...@gw.digibd.com (James Puzzo) writes:
>
> L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu) wrote:
> : aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
> : >Well, neither of those is technically impossible. The card set is just
> : >engineered to avoid that sort of thing, is all.
>
> : Eh?
>> : As far as Bleeding yourself, that is a longstanding rule:
>> : From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie)> : Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad> : Subject: DESIGN TEAM RULINGS: 5/9/95> : Date: 9 May 1995 07:17:48 GMT> : Message-ID: <3on4us$l...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
> :> : 5) If an action card such as Computer Hacking provides a directed> : bleed, you may bleed any player other than yourself.
>> Yeah, but what if you direct the bleed at your predator, and they deflect> it to you? In which case you would bleed yourself, wouldn't you?
>> -James
>
There is not a single 'deflection' type card that is able to deflect a bleed to
the bleeding methuselah.
-X
dj...@ttacs1.ttu.edu wrote:
: There is not a single 'deflection' type card that is able to deflect
: a bleed to the bleeding methuselah.
That's what I get for not double checking the card text first. But what about
(which one is it... I think it's...) blood bond? The one where you pay for
a bleed to a Methusaleh and later may force them to pay for a bleed to you?
In a > 2 player game, this seems to be the best use for the card (blood bond
your predator if your prey ever bleeds them). However, this would force
your predator to "bleed" themselves. Is this an exception? Or would you
simply not consider this "bleeding"?
-James
[ quoted text not captured ]
This is Major Boon. It merely changes who pays for the bleed, not who is
being bled. So, while you could wind up paying for a bleed undertaken
by one of your minions, you would not be being bled by that minion.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <4ddtbs$1...@gw.dgii.com>, jam...@gw.digibd.com (James Puzzo) writes:
> dj...@ttacs1.ttu.edu wrote:
>
> : There is not a single 'deflection' type card that is able to deflect
> : a bleed to the bleeding methuselah.
>
> That's what I get for not double checking the card text first. But what about
> (which one is it... I think it's...) blood bond? The one where you pay for
> a bleed to a Methusaleh and later may force them to pay for a bleed to you?
> In a > 2 player game, this seems to be the best use for the card (blood bond
> your predator if your prey ever bleeds them). However, this would force
> your predator to "bleed" themselves. Is this an exception? Or would you
> simply not consider this "bleeding"?
>> -James
>
The card of which you speak is the Major Boon:
M:OOT
Play this card to take another Methuselah's blood pool loss due to a bleed
(must be at least 1 blood). Modifiers to the bleed can be played after you
play this card. In the future you can force the rescued Methuselah to take a
loss due to a bleed against you. This boon is then burned.
Nowhere in the text of the card does it state or imply that it cannot
be used against the methuselah you rescued, so I would have to say that it is
an exception to the rule. The 'deflection' type cards I was referring to are:
Deflection, Telepathic Misdirection...and maybe a couple of others which are
MINION cards, not master. Basically, what I am trying to say is that minions
are not powerful enough to redirect a bleed to the bleeding methuselah.
However, MASTERS (methuselahs) are powerful enough.