Friends,
This is one of those sure to be asked questions that come up every once
in a while. I did not find an exhaustively written ruling on this in
Scott's archives so here goes:
First off, a new guy in our group, we'll call him Rude Boy, made a fuss
every time I tried to use this card. He seems to think that it is unusable
unless I also play WwEF. Clearly insane, I think.
I think we can at least say this: The vampire using the card must be a prince
or justicar and must be tapped.
Here is the situation. I'm tapped out. My predator tries to bleed me at 0
stealth. Can I play Domain? Usually one cannot add intercept unless the
acting vampire adds stealth. Does the +2 intercept on Domain prohibit me
from using it, then? Rude Boy says definitely yes.
The second situation was: Predator tries to use Hospitality Tradition. I say
no way and attempt to intercept using the Domain Tradition, using it w/o
WwEF on a tapped prince. No more stealth was added so we go into combat.
Is this correct? Rude Boy said no but I ignored him...
Thanks.
Brian Tandy
Domain is a reaction that can only be used by a tapped prince or justicar.
That vampire untaps, and attempts to block the action at +2 intercept.
It can thus only be used if you actually need to increase the reacting
vampire's intercept. If it is used successfully, the blocking procedure
continues normally, including going into combat if the block is ultimately
successful.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
bta...@bernard.ma.utexas.edu (Brian Tandy) wrote:
>First off, a new guy in our group, we'll call him Rude Boy, made a fuss
>every time I tried to use this card. He seems to think that it is unusable
>unless I also play WwEF. Clearly insane, I think.
Peace Brian,
No, 2nd Trad is a stronger WwEF (and can be used while untapped).
>I think we can at least say this: The vampire using the card must be a prince
>or justicar and must be tapped.
No, you don't have to be tapped.
>Here is the situation. I'm tapped out. My predator tries to bleed me at 0
>stealth. Can I play Domain? Usually one cannot add intercept unless the
>acting vampire adds stealth. Does the +2 intercept on Domain prohibit me
>from using it, then? Rude Boy says definitely yes.
Yes, you may untap and intercept.
>The second situation was: Predator tries to use Hospitality Tradition. I say
>no way and attempt to intercept using the Domain Tradition, using it w/o
>WwEF on a tapped prince. No more stealth was added so we go into combat.
>Is this correct? Rude Boy said no but I ignored him...
Yes, you may untap and intercept.
Nil carborundum illigitimi,
James R. McClure Jr.
The OS/2 Apostle
<insert disclaimer here>
Domain may *not* be played by an untapped prince or justicar. This is
the ruling on the Jyhad card, and spelled out in the V:TES text.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 20 Jun 1995, Thomas R Wylie wrote:
>
> Domain is a reaction that can only be used by a tapped prince or justicar.
> That vampire untaps, and attempts to block the action at +2 intercept.
> It can thus only be used if you actually need to increase the reacting
> vampire's intercept. If it is used successfully, the blocking procedure
> continues normally, including going into combat if the block is ultimately
> successful.
>
>> Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
>
>
>
Hi Tom,
This may sound a little dense, but it sounds like my group has
been playing this card wrong, so I better double check. If someone is
taking a zero stealth action (say a bleed) then this card is not useable
to untap and block?
Algustas
*****I would rather loose in a cause that will some day win, than win in
a cause that will some day lose!***** Woodrow Wilson
On 20 Jun 1995, Thomas R Wylie wrote:
>
> Domain is a reaction that can only be used by a tapped prince or justicar.
> That vampire untaps, and attempts to block the action at +2 intercept.
> It can thus only be used if you actually need to increase the reacting
> vampire's intercept. If it is used successfully, the blocking procedure
> continues normally, including going into combat if the block is ultimately
> successful.
Huh...
So I CAN'T block a zero stealth bleed, but I CAN block a +2 stealth
bleed? What about a +1 stealth bleed? I thought I understood this card,
but now I'm confused.
---------
Paul Schaaf
sch...@u.washington.edu
Paul Schaaf <sch...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>On 20 Jun 1995, Thomas R Wylie wrote:>> Domain is a reaction that can only be used by a tapped prince or justicar.
>> That vampire untaps, and attempts to block the action at +2 intercept.
>> It can thus only be used if you actually need to increase the reacting
>> vampire's intercept. If it is used successfully, the blocking procedure
>> continues normally, including going into combat if the block is ultimately
>> successful.>>So I CAN'T block a zero stealth bleed, but I CAN block a +2 stealth
>bleed? What about a +1 stealth bleed? I thought I understood this card,
>but now I'm confused.
>
It's simple: you can only use 2nd Tradition if you have a tapped Prince
with less intercept than the acting Minion (who you don't control) has
stealth.
Acting Prince Use 2nd
Stealth Tapped Tradition?
------- ------- ----------
1. 0 N N
2. 0 Y N
3. +X (X>0) N N
4. +X (X>0) Y Y
Princes are only capable of policing their domain when they are tired
and when the perpetrators are being careful.
Well rested Princes cannot police their domain.
Princes cannot Police their domain against sloppy outsiders.
A Prince has an even harder time policing his domain if he is unfortunate
enough to have recruited a Raven Spy, since now the outsider must go
to +2 stealth before the prince can invoke the 2nd Tradition.
Makes sense to me.
--
-----
L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine
Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger | and subject to card text
In article <3s73js$f...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>
>Domain is a reaction that can only be used by a tapped prince or justicar.
>That vampire untaps, and attempts to block the action at +2 intercept.
>It can thus only be used if you actually need to increase the reacting
>vampire's intercept. If it is used successfully, the blocking procedure
>continues normally, including going into combat if the block is ultimately
>successful.
So: what you are saying is that the 2nd Tradition produces Two effects:
Unatping and +2 intercept - both of which *must* be used in order to play
the card.
Unlike Superior Bonding (which produces two effects: +1 bleed and +1 stealth,
but may be used even if stealth is not yet required).
And, the kicker, unlike Anarch Troublemaker - which *can* be used (according to
the DT who rule that only part of a card effect need be used in order to
use the card) to only part of its effect - tapping only one minion.
Subject: Revised Jyhad FAQ: 4/18/95 version
Date: 18 Apr 1995 23:01:44 GMT
>First an important overall ruling: A card can be played, even if
>only part of its requirements are covered. For example Anarch
>Troublemaker can be played even if your prey only has one vampire
>in play. Please note that this is completely opposite how we rule
>on Magic cards. (12/2)
To be consistent (something the DT hates to be) - you should be able to
play 2nd tradtion for either untapping or +2 intercept or both, as
needed - just like the card is worded (in Jyhad - not the "fixed" wording
of V:tES).
[ quoted text not captured ]
Paul Schaaf <sch...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> On 20 Jun 1995, Thomas R Wylie wrote:> >
> > Domain is a reaction that can only be used by a tapped prince or
> > justicar. That vampire untaps, and attempts to block the action at
> > +2 intercept. It can thus only be used if you actually need to increase
> > the reacting vampire's intercept. If it is used successfully, the
> > blocking procedure continues normally, including going into combat if
> > the block is ultimately successful.> Huh...> So I CAN'T block a zero stealth bleed, but I CAN block a +2 stealth
> bleed? What about a +1 stealth bleed? I thought I understood this
> card, but now I'm confused.
Furthermore, if the tapped prince has a sports bike, does the bleed have
to be +2 stealth before he can use Domain to intercept???
---
Eric Pettersen
pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu (NeXTmail capable)
lsc...@crl.com (L. Scott Johnson) wrote:
>Subject: Revised Jyhad FAQ: 4/18/95 version
>Date: 18 Apr 1995 23:01:44 GMT
>>>First an important overall ruling: A card can be played, even if
>>only part of its requirements are covered. For example Anarch
>>Troublemaker can be played even if your prey only has one vampire
>>in play. Please note that this is completely opposite how we rule
>>on Magic cards. (12/2)>
>
>To be consistent (something the DT hates to be) - you should be able to
>play 2nd tradtion for either untapping or +2 intercept or both, as
>needed - just like the card is worded (in Jyhad - not the "fixed" wording
>of V:tES).
Peace Scott,
Excellent point!
[ quoted text not captured ]
L. Scott Johnson <lsc...@crl.com> wrote:
>So: what you are saying is that the 2nd Tradition produces Two effects:
>Unatping and +2 intercept - both of which *must* be used in order to play
>the card.
Yes. It says "Only usable by a tapped vampire...", so can only be used
by one that is tapped. The rules say you can only play an intercept card
if you actually need to raise your intercept. Therefore both conditions
can be met.
>Unlike Superior Bonding (which produces two effects: +1 bleed and +1 stealth,
>but may be used even if stealth is not yet required).
You actually cannot play a stealth card unless someone attempts to block,
and you need to exceed their intercept value. But since you can just go
ahead and play Bonding for +1 bleed, this doesn't matter normally.
>And, the kicker, unlike Anarch Troublemaker - which *can* be used(according to>the DT who rule that only part of a card effect need be used in order to
>use the card) to only part of its effect - tapping only one minion.
Because there is no general rule regulating the use of tapping effects
(as there is with intercept and stealth), and AT doesn't say that it
cares whether both minions are there, or untapped.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Eric Pettersen <pe...@homer.ucsf.edu> wrote:
>Furthermore, if the tapped prince has a sports bike, does the bleed have
>to be +2 stealth before he can use Domain to intercept???
No, because using equipment is optional. You can decline to use
Sport Bike if you want to use other intercept sources.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>To be consistent (something the DT hates to be) - you should be able to
>play 2nd tradtion for either untapping or +2 intercept or both, as
>needed - just like the card is worded (in Jyhad - not the "fixed" wording
>of V:tES).
And to me the DUMB wording on the card makes it unclear what the card does,
" +2 intercept. Usable by a tapped vampire that untaps to block."
To me the statement "Usable by a vampire that untaps to block" means
the vampire must untap to use this card. wouldn't
"Usable by a tapped vampire. The vampire may attempt to block an action as
if untapped at +2 intercept" be much more clear.
Or I guess to more accuratly reflect Tom's ruling.
"Usable only by a tapped vampire. The vampire may attempt to block an action
as untapped with +2 intercept. Only ussable if intercept is required to
block the action."
Why can't they write cards that are clear as to what we do.
Well, if the did my Jyhad group would have nothing to argue about
Steven Bauer
email:ba...@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu
On 21 Jun 1995, Thomas R Wylie wrote:
> You actually cannot play a stealth card unless someone attempts to block,
> and you need to exceed their intercept value. But since you can just go
Edited for Television
>
>
> Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Hi Tom,
Does this mean that if I have 3 different cards in my hand that
will give me +1 stealth and the minion attempting to block has +1
intercept, that I can not play these cards sequentially to gain more
stealth than he has intercept? If I understand you correctly you are
saying the stealth must all come from one source.
Algustas
*****Whoever can suprize well must conquer.***** John Paul Jones
In article <3s9t2j$t...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>,
Thomas R Wylie <aa...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>L. Scott Johnson <lsc...@crl.com> wrote:>>So: what you are saying is that the 2nd Tradition produces Two effects:
>>Unatping and +2 intercept - both of which *must* be used in order to play
>>the card.>>>And, the kicker, unlike Anarch Troublemaker - which *can* be used(according to
>>the DT who rule that only part of a card effect need be used in order to
>>use the card) to only part of its effect - tapping only one minion.>
>Because there is no general rule regulating the use of tapping effects
>(as there is with intercept and stealth), and AT doesn't say that it
>cares whether both minions are there, or untapped.
No one is talking about tapping effects. There *is* a general rule (I'll
quote it again for those with strong delete keys) for cards with multiple
requirements:
>First an important overall ruling: A card can be played, even if
>only part of its requirements are covered.
Anarch Trouble: Tap one minion, the other one, or both.
2nd Tradition: +2 intercept, untap, or untap with +2 intercept.
(The card didn't say "Only usable by a tapped... until the DT made the
incorrect ruling)
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <3s9jjr$o...@cgl.ucsf.edu>,
Eric Pettersen <pe...@homer.ucsf.edu> wrote:
>Paul Schaaf <sch...@u.washington.edu> wrote:>> On 20 Jun 1995, Thomas R Wylie wrote:
>> > Domain is a reaction that can only be used by a tapped prince or
>> > justicar. That vampire untaps, and attempts to block the action at
>> > +2 intercept. It can thus only be used if you actually need to increase
>> > the reacting vampire's intercept. If it is used successfully, the
>> > blocking procedure continues normally, including going into combat if
>> > the block is ultimately successful.>>> So I CAN'T block a zero stealth bleed, but I CAN block a +2 stealth
>> bleed? What about a +1 stealth bleed? I thought I understood this
>> card, but now I'm confused.>>Furthermore, if the tapped prince has a sports bike, does the bleed have
>to be +2 stealth before he can use Domain to intercept???
No, because the sport bike is optional (because it is equipment).
If he has a raven spy (Retainers are not optional), then yes.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article
<Pine.ULT.3.91j.95062...@stein1.u.washington.edu>, Paul
Schaaf <sch...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> On 20 Jun 1995, Thomas R Wylie wrote:
>
> >
> > Domain is a reaction that can only be used by a tapped prince or justicar.
> > That vampire untaps, and attempts to block the action at +2 intercept.
> > It can thus only be used if you actually need to increase the reacting
> > vampire's intercept. If it is used successfully, the blocking procedure
> > continues normally, including going into combat if the block is ultimately
> > successful.
>> Huh...>
> So I CAN'T block a zero stealth bleed, but I CAN block a +2 stealth
> bleed? What about a +1 stealth bleed? I thought I understood this card,
> but now I'm confused.
So it appears, with that card. To block a 0-stealth bleed, use WwEF.
J. Andrew Lipscomb <ew...@chattanooga.net, them...@delphi.com>
PGP keys by request
Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian.
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes:
>Domain may *not* be played by an untapped prince or justicar. This is
>the ruling on the Jyhad card, and spelled out in the V:TES text.
Why can you not use it when your Prince/Justicar is untapped? I would
have thought that, like Anarch Trouble Maker, you could use just part
of the card text...
chris
Algustas <cfr...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> Does this mean that if I have 3 different cards in my hand that
>will give me +1 stealth and the minion attempting to block has +1
>intercept, that I can not play these cards sequentially to gain more
>stealth than he has intercept? If I understand you correctly you are
>saying the stealth must all come from one source.
You can keep playing stealth cards over and over again, until or unless your
minion's stealth exceeds the intercept of the minion presently attempting
to block it. The inverse applies to playing intercept cards.
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]
Though I don't particularly agree with the ruling, I certainly can explain
the difference in the two situations. The DTR is saying that you can
waste part of the _effects_ of a card, not ignore part of the
prerequisites for playing the card, i.e. they are saying that for 2nd
Tradition:
Prerequisites
----------------
1) Prince / Justicar
2) tapped
3) attempting to block
4) must need additional intercept to block
Effects
---------
1) +2 intercept
2) untapped
Most of us don't agree with #2 and #4 being prerequisites.
[ quoted text not captured ]