Kindred Coercion

Can you use it (in sup) to change in your favor the votes of a vampire who abstained from voting ?

Orpheus wrote: > > Can you use it (in sup) to change in your favor the votes of a vampire who > abstained from voting ? No. You can only change the way a vampire votes (yea or nay). You can't march the vampire to the forum and make him cast his votes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3D2CAA33...@white-wolf.com... > Orpheus wrote: > > > > Can you use it (in sup) to change in your favor the votes of a vampire who > > abstained from voting ? > > No. > > You can only change the way a vampire votes (yea or nay). You can't march > the vampire to the forum and make him cast his votes. Why not? It seems like it would make sense (though it would reverse precedent) for this to work. Likewise Astrid Thomas could force any Tremere in the game to vote as she does, rather than letting them abstain if they want - seems like that would be more in the spirit of what the designers had in mind. It's legal to Telepathic Vote Counting (or Demonstration or Quentin) to "cancel" the votes of a vampire who's currently already abstaining, right? So why not to "force" the votes of a vampire currently abstaining? I can't see any major problems with allowing it, and I don't think it'd be out of flavor for Dominate (or Kindred Manipulation) to be able to march a voter down to the forum. :-) Josh forced avotening

In message <agia5u$lt5qq$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>, Joshua Duffin <jtdu...@yahoo.com> writes: >It's legal to Telepathic Vote Counting (or Demonstration or >Quentin) to "cancel" the votes of a vampire who's currently >already abstaining, right? Not quite. Telepathic Vote Counting forces a vampire to abstain. It *can* cancel the vampire's votes - if the vampire is already voting. It doesn't cancel the votes of a vampire who is currently abstaining, because there are no votes to cancel. -- James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D I am woman. Here, me raw. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 13D7E668C3695D623D5D

"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:NHDne77G...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > In message <agia5u$lt5qq$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>, Joshua Duffin > <jtdu...@yahoo.com> writes: > >It's legal to Telepathic Vote Counting (or Demonstration or > >Quentin) to "cancel" the votes of a vampire who's currently > >already abstaining, right? > > Not quite. > > Telepathic Vote Counting forces a vampire to abstain. It *can* cancel > the vampire's votes - if the vampire is already voting. It doesn't > cancel the votes of a vampire who is currently abstaining, because there > are no votes to cancel. Right, TVC is now written "abstains from voting". Quentin and Demonstration still say "cancel the votes of any vampire". So, can they be used on a vampire not currently casting any votes it may or may not possess? And if so, why not superior Kindred Coercion on a vampire not currently casting any votes? If Quentin and Demonstration work on "not currently voting" vampires then it seems clear that inferior Kindred Coercion should also work - "Cancel the votes of X vampires". And superior KC is written "As above, but change the votes of the affected vampires to votes of your choice". So it seems to me that it's intended to be usable under the same circumstances as inferior Kindred Coercion, which should be the same circumstances as Quentin or Demonstration. LSJ? And, if Quentin/Demonstration can't be used on a "not currently voting vampire", why not? Josh coercive

Joshua Duffin wrote: > > "James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message > news:NHDne77G...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk... > > In message <agia5u$lt5qq$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de>, Joshua Duffin > > <jtdu...@yahoo.com> writes: > > >It's legal to Telepathic Vote Counting (or Demonstration or > > >Quentin) to "cancel" the votes of a vampire who's currently > > >already abstaining, right? > > > > Not quite. > > > > Telepathic Vote Counting forces a vampire to abstain. It *can* cancel > > the vampire's votes - if the vampire is already voting. It doesn't > > cancel the votes of a vampire who is currently abstaining, because there > > are no votes to cancel. > > Right, TVC is now written "abstains from voting". Quentin and > Demonstration still say "cancel the votes of any vampire". > > So, can they be used on a vampire not currently casting any votes > it may or may not possess? And if so, why not superior Kindred Yes. > Coercion on a vampire not currently casting any votes? If Quentin They can be. But that won't force the vampire to vote. It will only set the state (yea or nay) of any votes the vampire does cast. > and Demonstration work on "not currently voting" vampires then it > seems clear that inferior Kindred Coercion should also work - > "Cancel the votes of X vampires". And superior KC is written "As 'K > above, but change the votes of the affected vampires to votes of > your choice". So it seems to me that it's intended to be usable > under the same circumstances as inferior Kindred Coercion, which > should be the same circumstances as Quentin or Demonstration. Yes. But none of them force the vampire to vote. Some force him to abstain and others set/change the way the votes that are cast are cast. > LSJ? And, if Quentin/Demonstration can't be used on a "not > currently voting vampire", why not? Moot. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> above, but change the votes of the affected vampires to votes of >> your choice". So it seems to me that it's intended to be usable >> under the same circumstances as inferior Kindred Coercion, which >> should be the same circumstances as Quentin or Demonstration. > >Yes. But none of them force the vampire to vote. Some force him to >abstain and others set/change the way the votes that are cast are >cast. Just to make sure: I take it that Astrid's ability trumps Kindred Coercion on some other Tremere? Since: Astrid's ability is "activated" when votes are tallied. [RTR 20001020] Astrid votes in favor. Cardano votes (something). If you Coerce Cardano to vote against, Astrid will cause him to vote her way when the vote is tallied? Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: > I take it that Astrid's ability trumps Kindred Coercion on some other Tremere? > Since: > > Astrid's ability is "activated" when votes are tallied. [RTR 20001020] > > Astrid votes in favor. Cardano votes (something). If you Coerce Cardano to vote > against, Astrid will cause him to vote her way when the vote is tallied? Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020711224234...@mb-ct.aol.com... > I take it that Astrid's ability trumps Kindred Coercion on some other Tremere? > Since: > > Astrid's ability is "activated" when votes are tallied. [RTR 20001020] > > Astrid votes in favor. Cardano votes (something). If you Coerce Cardano to vote > against, Astrid will cause him to vote her way when the vote is tallied? Of course, if Astrid (and other Tremere voters are on the table) and you're not coercing Astrid, you're doing something wrong. :) Xian

>Of course, if Astrid (and other Tremere voters are on the table) and you're >not >coercing Astrid, you're doing something wrong. :) Ok, fine. Astrid, Blythe the Prince of Rome, and Mustafa Tremere Justicar are on the table. All you have is Luccia Paciola (so you can't Coerce Astrid since she's older). Happy? Halcyan 2