[LSJ] Path of Lilith / Rotschreck

If I have a Path of Lilith in play and send my opponent to torpor w/Rotschreck, can I tap the Path and put a torture counter on the opposing minion? Two schools of thought here, and I'd like to keep my ruling consistent. Thanks.

>If I have a Path of Lilith in play and send my opponent to torpor >w/Rotschreck, can I tap the Path and put a torture counter on the >opposing minion? No. The opposing minion is not going to torpor during combat. And it's not your minion that's sending the opposing minion to torpor. Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[quote]No. The opposing minion is not going to torpor during combat. And it's not your minion that's sending the opposing minion to torpor.[/quote] Not going to torpor during combat? I'm inclined to disagree. Rotschreck is played during strike announcement, which is _certainly_ during combat. Rotschreck states - "Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor." Furthermore, The Path of Lilith states - "When a non-Camarilla vampire you control sends an opposing vampire to torpor in combat, you may tap this card to put a torture counter on the opposing vampire." The Path requires two things - 1. a non-Camarilla vampire 2. to send an opposing vampire to torpor in combat. As we can see from playing Rotschreck, it _is_ during combat and the opposing minion _is_ sent to torpor. The Path does not specify _how_ the opposing minion was sent to torpor other than "during combat". Therefore I must conclude that the two requirements of The Path of Lilith are met when using Rotschreck.

mrsa...@hotmail.com wrote: > Not going to torpor during combat? I'm inclined to disagree. > Rotschreck is played during strike announcement, which is _certainly_ > during combat. > > Rotschreck states - > > "Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict > aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be > successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and > sent to torpor." Right. It ends combat. And then it sends the target to torpor. After combat ends. (Which is why Amaranth cannot be played after Rotschreck.) [ quoted text not captured ]

On 11 Dec 2004 17:28:53 -0800, mrsa...@hotmail.com scrawled: [snip] >Furthermore, The Path of Lilith states - > >"When a non-Camarilla vampire you control sends an opposing vampire to >torpor in combat, you may tap this card to put a torture counter on the >opposing vampire." > >The Path requires two things - > >1. a non-Camarilla vampire > >2. to send an opposing vampire to torpor in combat. > >As we can see from playing Rotschreck, it _is_ during combat and the >opposing minion _is_ sent to torpor. The Path does not specify _how_ >the opposing minion was sent to torpor other than "during combat". >Therefore I must conclude that the two requirements of The Path of >Lilith are met when using Rotschreck. also it must be sent to torpor _by_ your non-cam vampire. therefore i conclude that environmental damage sending the vamp to torpor (such as, say, drawing out the beast during the press step or weather control before range) would not allow you to tap the path. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

Thanks for elaborating. The Path of Lilith just went down a few notches on my list.