Crypt:
Huitzilopochtli x4
Giotto Verducci x2
Mary the Black
Sargon
Pochtli x4
Masters:
Info Highway x5
Golconda
Giants Blood
Dominate x4
Heidleburg Castle
Blood Doll x2
Library
Trap x8
Fear of the Below x8
Thoughts Betrayed x8
Boxed In x30
Swallowed by the Night x12
Rush x10
Here's the skinny:
Trap + Superior Fear of the Void Below = Deck decimation!
Theoretically, the "discard a card" element from FotVB and Trap mean
the victim will have half their library decimated in no time. Thoughts
Betrayed means they don't hit you (pray for no ranged weapons!).
Pochtli is there solely to recharge the deck. That's it!
So I win a prize, or something, right?
DH
> Theoretically, the "discard a card" element from FotVB and Trap mean
> the victim will have half their library decimated in no time. Thoughts
> Betrayed means they don't hit you (pray for no ranged weapons!).
And pray for none of the not so uncommon Carrion Crows.
--
johannes walch
v:ekn germany - http://www.vekn.de
johanne...@vekn.de
dave...@hotmail.com (hamdamcwa) wrote in message news:<9e10847c.03010...@posting.google.com>...
>snip<> Theoretically, the "discard a card" element from FotVB and Trap mean
> the victim will have half their library decimated in no time. Thoughts
> Betrayed means they don't hit you (pray for no ranged weapons!).
And you would go through your own deck too.
> Pochtli is there solely to recharge the deck. That's it!
>
> So I win a prize, or something, right?
Only if you make a deck that would work without depleting yourself:)
Something with meathook.
Good luck mate, many have tried.
>
> DH
D.
> >snip<
>
> > Theoretically, the "discard a card" element from FotVB and Trap mean
> > the victim will have half their library decimated in no time. Thoughts
> > Betrayed means they don't hit you (pray for no ranged weapons!).
>
> And you would go through your own deck too.
Yes, but at a rate 1/3 less than the opposing meth (since FotVB only
robs them of a card and Trap lasts for 3 rounds i.e. 3 cards from the
opposing meth).
> > Pochtli is there solely to recharge the deck. That's it!
> >
> > So I win a prize, or something, right?
>
> Only if you make a deck that would work without depleting yourself:)
> Something with meathook.
Meathook doesn't work since it only works at close range so you would
need to make range close. V tricky with FotVB in play.
No, it should work providing bad things don't happen (environmental or
weapons).
However, it is "shaky".
DH
dgarcia...@hotmail.com (Nova_Arpad) wrote in message news:<7785c31c.03010...@posting.google.com>...
[ quoted text not captured ]
And many have failed. Right, Carl ? :)
> > > So I win a prize, or something, right?
> >
> > Only if you make a deck that would work without depleting yourself:)
> > Something with meathook.
>
> Meathook doesn't work since it only works at close range so you would
> need to make range close. V tricky with FotVB in play.
The best 'deck-idea' seen sofar with this trick was build on Caelean.
Caelean played :
Superior Dominate Skill card
Sargon Fragment or another Necro Skill card
Ex Nihilio
Meat Hook
Clan Impersonation Tremere Anti
Got Superior Daemonion from Infernal Pact
(could also impersonate Baali and be sanguinily instructed, but that
required a baali and 2 succesfull sanguine instructions)
Then Caelean Bum's rushes
Thoughts Betrayed and Fear of the Void superior.
Set the range to close with Caelean Ability.
Strike with the meat hook for 0 damage due to the nihilio
Opponent discard a card
You don't take damage due to the Meat hook.
There is a press from the hook
etc etc... till your opponent has no more cards you allow combat to
end by not setting range (scary moment there, at first glance we
weren't sure you could end this combat, looping the entire game :)
But you have to agree the setup for this one is well... a little out
of scope.
There is another variant to this trick, also stupid, as it requires the
whole deck to perform and it *doesn't* oust your prey.
Huiztlipochtli
Sargon fragment or necro skill card
ex nihilo (strength based strikes deal 0 damage, take no damage from
non-aggro strikes)
concordance (nullifies the +1 stealth from ex nihilo and grants
invulnerability treating aggro damage as normal damage)
Clan impersonate to nosferatu
Storm sewers
Perform nasty actions eager to be blocked tapping storm sewers (mind rape?),
if blocked, combat will be set up at close range due to storm sewers.
thoughts+meat hook+fear of the void below. Discard the whole deck and hand
unless opponent vampire has pot to burn meat hook or a press to end combat.
Tom
"Rubbe" <ru...@pandora.Be> escribió en el mensaje
news:aa2c2398.03010...@posting.google.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
"hamdamcwa" <dave...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9e10847c.03010...@posting.google.com...
> Library
>
> Trap x8
> Fear of the Below x8
> Thoughts Betrayed x8
> Boxed In x30
> Swallowed by the Night x12
> Rush x10
>> Trap + Superior Fear of the Void Below = Deck decimation!
I'm still befuddled as to how the combat is proceeding beyond
three rounds provided by the trap, unless you then press to continue
with boxes in for a couple of rounds after the trap expires. (or
perhaps you're only looking for three rounds?)
Or perhaps you're maneuvering into close range once in
a while with the swallowed by nights?
Perhaps increase the number of traps, at the expense of the boxed in.
Every combat play two traps then in the 2nd round and the second
round after the trap is renewed, Press to end with the boxed in. The
combat will continue due to the 2nd trap. Alternatively could sub Taste
of vitae in and taste on the second round of the trap for zero blood
Play zip gun in the third round?
It just seems a waste to set up a three card combo (Rush, fear, Trap)
to inflict no damage, and get them to loose the same number of cards
that you do.
-JTP
Better yet, Dodge evey third round.
(15 Boxed in, 15 Dodge? )
Then just in case they do pull out
a concealed or disguised gun it will
get you out of there until you can use
FotVB's press to end.
-JTP
ru...@pandora.Be (Rubbe) wrote in message news:<aa2c2398.03010...@posting.google.com>...
> > > > So I win a prize, or something, right?
> > >
> > > Only if you make a deck that would work without depleting yourself:)
> > > Something with meathook.
> >
> > Meathook doesn't work since it only works at close range so you would
> > need to make range close. V tricky with FotVB in play.
>
> The best 'deck-idea' seen sofar with this trick was build on Caelean.
> Caelean played :
> Superior Dominate Skill card
> Sargon Fragment or another Necro Skill card
> Ex Nihilio
> Meat Hook
> Clan Impersonation Tremere Anti
> Got Superior Daemonion from Infernal Pact
> (could also impersonate Baali and be sanguinily instructed, but that
> required a baali and 2 succesfull sanguine instructions)
There are a few other tricks:
Tremere anti (for instance, Ian), or any other vampire, could also
use: Vial of Elder vitae, possibly in combination with Heidelburg,
Magic of the smith, Pier 13, etc.
Not better, but it opens another sketchy avenue of possibility.
!Nos gang tactics is also an option.
It's real tricky - I've tried a Baali with Nossie Princes deck, back
in the day when 5th was still what it was, with minion taps to keep
the infernal cost at bay. But I could never complete the combo
successfully (maybe not enough dedication to the combo, but heck, just
the combo won't oust anything.)
Hmmm you've got me thinking again, though. What if you play a bunch of
storage annexes, and pier 13. Store parts of the combo as needed in
the annexes, conserve minion actions by using the pier to equip
(sargon fragment, meat hook, vials?)... maybe that will allow the use
of enough other cards in the library to do something other than deck
destruction? Of course, this way, deck destruction will only happen
late in the game.
Hmmm....
Tobias
Deventer
"John P." <verg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<7IhT9.18000$7_.7...@news1.mts.net>...
> "hamdamcwa" <dave...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9e10847c.03010...@posting.google.com...
> > Library
> >
> > Trap x8
> > Fear of the Below x8
> > Thoughts Betrayed x8
> > Boxed In x30
> > Swallowed by the Night x12
> > Rush x10
> >
> > Trap + Superior Fear of the Void Below = Deck decimation!
First Off, I mis-selected the card:
Should be Dead End Alley so that there is an instant replace. Makes a
helluva difference.
(I knew what I meant, I just got it wrong).
> I'm still befuddled as to how the combat is proceeding beyond
> three rounds provided by the trap, unless you then press to continue
> with boxes in for a couple of rounds after the trap expires. (or
> perhaps you're only looking for three rounds?)
Trap kicks in. On the 3rd round you play a press. Combat continues for
another 2 rounds. On the third round you play a press. Rinse and
repeat. In the meantime, your opponent has burned 3 library cards.
> Or perhaps you're maneuvering into close range once in
> a while with the swallowed by nights?
They are there to bug out to long and stay at long.
> Perhaps increase the number of traps, at the expense of the boxed in.
> Every combat play two traps then in the 2nd round and the second
> round after the trap is renewed, Press to end with the boxed in. The
> combat will continue due to the 2nd trap. Alternatively could sub Taste
> of vitae in and taste on the second round of the trap for zero blood
> Play zip gun in the third round?
>
> It just seems a waste to set up a three card combo (Rush, fear, Trap)
> to inflict no damage, and get them to loose the same number of cards
> that you do.
The whole point is to run your opponent out of deck in one combat. In
thoery, assuming you perpetually pull up the presses, you will keep
going until you burn about 33 cards (total) and your opponent burns
90. You take no damage, but screw him right up.
I think to reasonably work, the library need to include Aura Readings,
maybe a gun or two (and disguised weapons) and maybe a taste or two.
DH
"John P." <verg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2XhT9.18014$7_.7...@news1.mts.net>...
> Better yet, Dodge evey third round.
> (15 Boxed in, 15 Dodge? )
Fair idea, except I'd use Staredown for the insant replace and the
S:CE in case it gets too hot in there.
> Then just in case they do pull out
> a concealed or disguised gun it will
> get you out of there until you can use
> FotVB's press to end.
More worried about Carrion Crows to be honest
DH
"hamdamcwa" <dave...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9e10847c.03011...@posting.google.com...
> Should be Dead End Alley so that there is an instant replace. Makes a
> helluva difference.
Ahhh.. the light is dawning
> Trap kicks in. On the 3rd round you play a press. Combat continues for
> another 2 rounds. On the third round you play a press. Rinse and
> repeat. In the meantime, your opponent has burned 3 library cards.
I was misreading trap. I was thinking that if prior to the press
step on the third round no cards had been played, the trap would
disappear. I see now that the trap remains, it just does not provide
a press. Interesting.
<snip>
> The whole point is to run your opponent out of deck in one combat. In
> thoery, assuming you perpetually pull up the presses, you will keep
> going until you burn about 33 cards (total) and your opponent burns
> 90. You take no damage, but screw him right up.
with my new-found understanding of trap I now understand.
-JTP
Rubbe wrote:
> The best 'deck-idea' seen sofar with this trick was build on
> Caelean. Caelean played :
> Superior Dominate Skill card
> Sargon Fragment or another Necro Skill card
> Ex Nihilio
> Meat Hook
> Clan Impersonation Tremere Anti
> Got Superior Daemonion from Infernal Pact
> (could also impersonate Baali and be sanguinily instructed, but that
> required a baali and 2 succesfull sanguine instructions)
> Then Caelean Bum's rushes
> Thoughts Betrayed and Fear of the Void superior.
> Set the range to close with Caelean Ability.
> Strike with the meat hook for 0 damage due to the nihilio
> Opponent discard a card
> You don't take damage due to the Meat hook.
> There is a press from the hook
> etc etc... till your opponent has no more cards you allow combat to
> end by not setting range (scary moment there, at first glance we
> weren't sure you could end this combat, looping the entire game :)
Then Hasina Kesi blocks the bums and destroys the meat hook with first
strike. You run to the toilets to cry alone =)
[ quoted text not captured ]
With an Ex-Nihilo on, Cailean gets +1 stealth on each of his actions, so it will
be a bit difficult for Hasina to block him. In addition, Cailean has OBF, so he
will be able to choose a suitable target for his Bum's Rush ;-P
Greetings,
Damnans
[ quoted text not captured ]
okay, replace Hasina by gengis or tom ;)
The idea itself is quite interesting, but i just wanted to point out that
the inherent burn clause of the meat hook makes it too fragile =/
[ quoted text not captured ]
Yup. However Elder Impersonation would be very helpful in this case.
> The idea itself is quite interesting, but i just wanted to point out that
> the inherent burn clause of the meat hook makes it too fragile =/
That's true. Perhaps, there is a way (unknown to me) to give your prey control
of an ally, who would become a perfect target for Cailean's Bum's Rush. Then
there would be no worry about the opposing minion having Potence.
Greetings,
Damnans
>There is a press from the hook
>etc etc... till your opponent has no more cards you allow combat to
>end by not setting range (scary moment there, at first glance we
>weren't sure you could end this combat, looping the entire game :)
>
Yep. One of the most powerful abilities of Ex Nihilo + Meat Hook means you can
potentially continue a combat forever (causing a timeout in a tourney or lots
of mad people in a casual game)...
Halcyan 2
halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2)
sez:
> Yep. One of the most powerful abilities of Ex Nihilo + Meat Hook means you can
> potentially continue a combat forever (causing a timeout in a tourney or lots
> of mad people in a casual game)...
>
>
> Halcyan 2
would continuing to take your unproductive press now be another
example of stalling under judges guide 162? it is a little different
than the example, but... the question might be worth asking(?)
specifically, this part seems to be crucial: "... A player need not be
playing slowly to be guilty of stalling. If the player is just
performing idle activity for no purpose other than to take advantage
of a time limit, this can also be considered stalling {snip example.}"
entirety:
162. Cheating - Stalling
Definition:
A player intentionally plays slowly in order to take advantage of the
time limit. Refer to section 141 for unintentional slow play.
Examples:
(A) A player has no options available to significantly affect the
game, and spends several minutes "thinking" about what to do.
(B) A player whose library is known to have no more equipment in it
takes actions via Vast Wealth to use the remaining time in the round
searching and shuffling the library for the purpose of preventing his
opponent from getting another turn.
Philosophy:
If it is clear that a player is stalling, he or she should face a
serious penalty. A player need not be playing slowly to be guilty of
stalling. If the player is just performing idle activity for no
purpose other than to take advantage of a time limit, this can also be
considered stalling (e.g. using Vast Wealth on every turn even when no
more equipment can be found just to spend time "searching" the library
and shuffling it.) In addition to issuing any appropriate penalties to
the stalling player, the judge may add an appropriate amount of time
to the round to compensate for time lost due to stalling. The time
added should not be more than the approximate amount of time lost due
to the stalling violation. Any time added to the round must be
immediately announced.
Penalty:
Game loss.
==good night, johnboy...
{waltons and dark shadows themes play simultaneously}
spinney99 wrote:
>
> halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2)
> sez:
>
> > Yep. One of the most powerful abilities of Ex Nihilo + Meat Hook means you can
> > potentially continue a combat forever (causing a timeout in a tourney or lots
> > of mad people in a casual game)...
> >
> >
> > Halcyan 2
>
> would continuing to take your unproductive press now be another
> example of stalling under judges guide 162?
Yes.
Once it is determined that the combat "cycle" produces no result (no
change in game state), it would be stalling to continue the cycle.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schreef in bericht
news:3E24092C...@white-wolf.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
I so terribly want to disagree on that ... Since it's a legal combo, I think
it should be allowed or banned from tournament. If I off my first prey and
then stall using the above mentioned combo, I think I should be considered
table winner.
--
http://vtes.sentientbeings.com - V:TES Collection and Deck builder
http://www.finalfantasygoodies.nl - Final Fantasy Collectibles.
intGod wrote:
> I so terribly want to disagree on that ... Since it's a legal combo, I think
> it should be allowed or banned from tournament. If I off my first prey and> then *STALL* using the above mentioned combo, I think I should be considered
> table winner.
(emphasis added)
Then you should check the rule spinney99 quoted to see where your
error lies. Hint: it's emphasized above.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schreef in bericht
news:3E241276...@white-wolf.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Yes, I know. But illegal stalling is losing your cards every five seconds,
adjusting your glasses, standing up to get a drink, e.g. things that have
nothing to do with the game.
In the case of the combo, I'm still playing. And playing. And playing. And
playing. And playing. It could of course be considered stalling, but it's
also a flaw in the design. Either the combo should be banned, or one of both
cards should be outlawed.
Or am I being too much of a binary being ? :P
[ quoted text not captured ]
> Yes, I know. But illegal stalling is losing your cards every five seconds,
> adjusting your glasses, standing up to get a drink, e.g. things that have
> nothing to do with the game.> In the case of the combo, I'm still playing. And playing. And playing. And
> playing. And playing. It could of course be considered stalling, but it's
> also a flaw in the design. Either the combo should be banned, or one of both
> cards should be outlawed.> Or am I being too much of a binary being ? :P
"Stalling" has nothing to do with the specific actions, it has to do with the
intent. If you are doing something specifically so the round will go to time,
then you're illegally stalling. And not exactly making friends either.
intGod wrote:
> Yes, I know. But illegal stalling is losing your cards every five seconds,
> adjusting your glasses, standing up to get a drink, e.g. things that have
> nothing to do with the game.
>
> In the case of the combo, I'm still playing. And playing. And playing. And
> playing. And playing. It could of course be considered stalling, but it's
> also a flaw in the design. Either the combo should be banned, or one of both
> cards should be outlawed.
>
> Or am I being too much of a binary being ? :P
Not binary enough, I'd say.
Illegal stalling also covers "performing idle activity for no purpose other
than to take advantage of a time limit", as spinney99 quoted.
The activity (pressing and pressing and pressing ...) serves no purpose once
it is shown that nothing is accomplished by that (no cards are played, no
blood is lost, etc.).
[ quoted text not captured ]
> Illegal stalling also covers "performing idle activity for no purpose
other
> than to take advantage of a time limit", as spinney99 quoted.
>
> The activity (pressing and pressing and pressing ...) serves no purpose
once
> it is shown that nothing is accomplished by that (no cards are played, no
> blood is lost, etc.).
Granted. No further questions.
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ wrote:
> intGod wrote:
>>>Yes, I know. But illegal stalling is losing your cards every five seconds,
>>adjusting your glasses, standing up to get a drink, e.g. things that have
>>nothing to do with the game.
>>
>>In the case of the combo, I'm still playing. And playing. And playing. And
>>playing. And playing. It could of course be considered stalling, but it's
>>also a flaw in the design. Either the combo should be banned, or one of both
>>cards should be outlawed.
>>
>>Or am I being too much of a binary being ? :P>
>
> Not binary enough, I'd say.
>
> Illegal stalling also covers "performing idle activity for no purpose other
> than to take advantage of a time limit", as spinney99 quoted.
>
> The activity (pressing and pressing and pressing ...) serves no purpose once
> it is shown that nothing is accomplished by that (no cards are played, no
> blood is lost, etc.).
>
Hmm, ok so I have a weeniedeck with no combat-defence. 20 minutes left
of the round. I know I only have Forgotten Labyrinth left so I start
playing Auktarsis Persecution as my only action with the explicit goal
to force the table to timeout by literally soaking it with pool. Let's
assume I'm able to dump two of those on the table each turn and that I
have vote-lock.
Illegal play?
Sten During
Sten During wrote:
> Hmm, ok so I have a weeniedeck with no combat-defence. 20 minutes left
> of the round. I know I only have Forgotten Labyrinth left so I start
> playing Auktarsis Persecution as my only action with the explicit goal
> to force the table to timeout by literally soaking it with pool. Let's
> assume I'm able to dump two of those on the table each turn and that I
> have vote-lock.
>
> Illegal play?
No. The game state changed dramatically.
You played card(s).
Pool totals changed.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>I so terribly want to disagree on that ... Since it's a legal combo, I think
>it should be allowed or banned from tournament. If I off my first prey and
>then stall using the above mentioned combo, I think I should be considered
>table winner.
Also, you need at lesat 2 VP's (not 1.5) to get a Table Win.
Halcyan 2