Succubus club trading Q

1. How are trades made from hand? I think there is a rule about not being allowed to show cards to other players. Do one have to discuss the trading open for all players to hear, or can one leave the room? (in tournament of course) 2. Is it allowed to trade vampires. 3. What happens if I get control of a tapped card (i.e. Barrens) in my untap? Can I untap it and use it right away? 4. Is it allowed to trade the club itself? If so, two or more players could use cards that act in the masterphase, like Palatial estate... 5. What does the last sentence mean? Really? Example! Succubus Club [Jyhad, V:TES] Cardtype: Master Master: unique location. Methuselahs can give you pool, and you can give them pool. You can trade cards from your hand or in play. These trades can only happen during your untap phase and cannot result in any Methuselah having less than his or her hand size. Any additional terms can be established, but none are enfoced by the rules.

Henke wrote: > > 1. How are trades made from hand? I think there is a rule about not being > allowed to show cards to other players. Do one have to discuss the trading > open for all players to hear, or can one leave the room? (in tournament of > course) Open discussion. > 2. Is it allowed to trade vampires. Controlled vampires, yes. Vampires from the ash heap, uncontrolled region, or crypt? no. > 3. What happens if I get control of a tapped card (i.e. Barrens) in my > untap? Can I untap it and use it right away? No. There's nothing to indicate that you get to untap it. And untapping all your cards was the first thing that happens in your untap phase, before you get to trade in new stuff via Succeubus Club. [4] > 4. Is it allowed to trade the club itself? If so, two or more players could > use cards that act in the masterphase, like Palatial estate... Yes. > 5. What does the last sentence mean? Really? Example! As in your example of trading the Club itself back and forth - you've established additional terms ("and you'll trade it back to me on your turn") which are not enforced by the rules (your trading partner is free to keep it for herself on her turn instead of trading it back to you). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>> 1. How are trades made from hand? I think there is a rule about not being >> allowed to show cards to other players. Do one have to discuss the trading >> open for all players to hear, or can one leave the room? (in tournament of >> course) > >Open discussion. When, after open discussion, you trade cards, does this mean you can give the other Methusaleh a different card instead? (i.e. would does count as unenforcable?) >As in your example of trading the Club itself back and forth - you've >established >additional terms ("and you'll trade it back to me on your turn") which are >not enforced by the rules (your trading partner is free to keep it for >herself >on her turn instead of trading it back to you). How enforcable is a straightforward trade? For example, if you say "You give me your Hunting Ground and then I'll give you my Barrens." Since you say the "and then" which implies later, could you take the HG and renege on the deal? On the other hand, if you agree to trade thetwo simulataneously, could you still try to accept the HG while keeping the Barrens? Thanks! Halcyan 2

Halcyan 2 wrote: [uncited quotation snipped] > When, after open discussion, you trade cards, does this mean you can give the > other Methusaleh a different card instead? (i.e. would does count as > unenforcable?) No. Only the "additional term" are not enforced. You trade what you trade. > How enforcable is a straightforward trade? For example, if you say "You give me > your Hunting Ground and then I'll give you my Barrens." Since you say the "and > then" which implies later, could you take the HG and renege on the deal? On the > other hand, if you agree to trade thetwo simulataneously, could you still try > to accept the HG while keeping the Barrens? Thanks! The trade is the trade. It is enforced. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 18:49:33 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >Halcyan 2 wrote: >[uncited quotation snipped] >> When, after open discussion, you trade cards, does this mean you can give the >> other Methusaleh a different card instead? (i.e. would does count as >> unenforcable?) >No. Only the "additional term" are not enforced. You trade what you trade. and if i say "i give you a parthenon and you didn't bleed me" is a trade or an additional term?, is then enforced by the rules? bye! Geb

Geb wrote: [Re: Succubus Club] > and if i say "i give you a parthenon and you didn't bleed me" is a > trade or an additional term?, is then enforced by the rules? Additional term, by explicit card text on Succubus Club. [ quoted text not captured ]

> Henke wrote: >> >> 1. How are trades made from hand? I think there is a rule about not being >> allowed to show cards to other players. Do one have to discuss the trading >> open for all players to hear, or can one leave the room? (in tournament of >> course) > > Open discussion. You could, of course, agree to trade all 7 cards in your hand for all 7 cards in their hand, which would be looking only at "your" cards, but cut through all the crap, and allow you to make private trades. Of course, they might not give the cards BACK to you if they really like them, but that's another matter. >> 3. What happens if I get control of a tapped card (i.e. Barrens) in my >> untap? Can I untap it and use it right away? > > No. There's nothing to indicate that you get to untap it. And untapping > all your cards was the first thing that happens in your untap phase, before > you get to trade in new stuff via Succeubus Club. [4] But you can use "during your untap" effects, yes? You could borrow a Hunting ground, gain the blood, and then give it back, yes? Perhaps in trade for first borrowing and putting a blood on their Powerbase:Chicago and then giving it back? -- Pat Ricochet Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta

Pat Ricochet wrote: > >> 3. What happens if I get control of a tapped card (i.e. Barrens) in my > >> untap? Can I untap it and use it right away? > > > > No. There's nothing to indicate that you get to untap it. And untapping > > all your cards was the first thing that happens in your untap phase, before > > you get to trade in new stuff via Succeubus Club. [4] > > But you can use "during your untap" effects, yes? You could borrow a > Hunting ground, gain the blood, and then give it back, yes? Perhaps in > trade for first borrowing and putting a blood on their Powerbase:Chicago and > then giving it back? Yes, other untap-phase effects can be ordered as you wish [4]. Note: there's nothing that forces you to honor the agreement to "trade it back", either. [ quoted text not captured ]