Yet more rules questions

Despite having a set of erratas/rulings in hand, I still get asked questions by players that either confuse me or stump me.... 1) When *exactly* is the sup version of the Psyche (cel, VtES uncommon) card played? Recently we had an instance where combat occurred where one minion had a Raptor in play. At the end of combat, which would come first: a) the opportunity to re-draw the lost card in response to the Raptor b) the opportunity to play Psyche to begin combat again I thought that b) would come before a) ??? 2) From the rulings given, and from previous discussions here onthe group I understand that all cards played that modify hand damage do not apply to strikes with melee weapons. However, what about the base hand damage of a vampire? If a vampire with +1 hand damage (base) strikes with a Bang Nakh (weapon, AH common) then would not his base damage count to make the strike a total of 4 damage? I would like to think that this is the case. If the above is true then what about vampires whose base hand damage is aggravated (e.g. Thetmes)? Would the agg pass through to the melee weapon or not? 3) Can the card Contract (master, AH common) be played by a methuselah before any vampires come into play? The card does not state any pre-requisites except naming an Assamite. This would indicate that an Assamite can be named, regardless of whether he is play, or who brings him into play. ??? 4) When *exactly* can you play damage modifiers to a strike? I was under the impression that cards such as Wolf Claws (prot, VtES common) could be played at any point up until the strike itself is announced. Some players claim they can play such cards after the strikes by both vampires have been announced. This makes absolutely no sense to me. Can someone clarify this, and state their reasoning? 5) The damage for the card Drawing out the Beast (ani, VtES common) is resolved at the end of the round. Hence I would assume that all normal *and* agg damage is resolved during strike resolution *before* the DotB damage, correct? ??? 6) I think I've asked this before but I'd just like to check. The blood loss/gain from Theft of Vitae (tha, VtES/Sabbat common) is resolved before normal strike damage, correct? ??? Thanks, Mike Nudd VEKN Prince of London mi...@vekn.org.uk ; mi...@darkness.org.uk

On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:57:29 GMT, mi...@vekn.org.uk (Mike Nudd) wrote: >Despite having a set of erratas/rulings in hand, I still get asked >questions by players that either confuse me or stump me.... > >1) When *exactly* is the sup version of the Psyche (cel, VtES >uncommon) card played? Recently we had an instance where combat >occurred where one minion had a Raptor in play. At the end of combat, >which would come first: > >a) the opportunity to re-draw the lost card in response to the Raptor >b) the opportunity to play Psyche to begin combat again You redraw your lost card when combat ends. Psyche's card text states "only usable at the end of a combat", so would be played AFTER combat had ended. I would say you redraw the card, and then someone can play Psyche to restart combat. >2) From the rulings given, and from previous discussions here onthe >group I understand that all cards played that modify hand damage do >not apply to strikes with melee weapons. Not necessarily. Undead Strength specifically states "hand or melee weapon". Torn Signpost modifies base hand damage (strength), so you would gain its bonus when striking with a melee weapon as well. If it increases hand damage, it can apply to a melee weapon. If it ALTERS hand damage (say, to make it aggravated), it doesn't work with a weapon anymore. >However, what about the base hand damage of a vampire? If a vampire >with +1 hand damage (base) strikes with a Bang Nakh (weapon, AH >common) then would not his base damage count to make the strike a >total of 4 damage? I would like to think that this is the case. Yep. Right first try. >If the above is true then what about vampires whose base hand damage >is aggravated (e.g. Thetmes)? Would the agg pass through to the melee >weapon or not? Nope. His HANDS are aggravated, not his Bang-Up Knockers. This is complicated by the use of "hand damage" to mean both "strength" and "hand damage" itself =/ In one instance, it refers to an accumulative amount. In the other, it refers to the TYPE of damage... "Thetmes inflicts aggravated hand damage" meaning that when he hits with his hands, it's agg for some reason. Maybe he has the creeping funky-funk or something. >3) Can the card Contract (master, AH common) be played by a methuselah >before any vampires come into play? The card does not state any >pre-requisites except naming an Assamite. This would indicate that an >Assamite can be named, regardless of whether he is play, or who brings >him into play. (headshake) You need to have the Assamite to be named in play. I believe there is an official clarification to this effect. >4) When *exactly* can you play damage modifiers to a strike? I was >under the impression that cards such as Wolf Claws (prot, VtES common) >could be played at any point up until the strike itself is announced. >Some players claim they can play such cards after the strikes by both >vampires have been announced. This makes absolutely no sense to me. >Can someone clarify this, and state their reasoning? You can modify with something like Wolf Claws at any time *before* strike resolution. This includes the period after strikes have been announced, and before strike resolution begins. So yes, you can hand-strike for 1, your opponent DOESN'T dodge, and then you pull out the Claws on him. IANLSJ (sic), so I don't know his original reasoning. It doesn't seem terribly unbalanced currently because the Gangrel are kinda hosed in combat anyway - and with Protean being so clan-specific, it's not difficult to look at the vampire you're in combat with and say "Gee, i wonder if that'll be aggravated." It's similar to looking at the minion bleeding you for 1 and saying "Gee, he's got superior Dominate. I wonder if this bleed will REALLY be for 1?" I would suspect that the original reasoning is that card text stated "remainder of the round", so as long as you played it BEFORE the strike resolution phase started, it would be aggravated during that phase. >5) The damage for the card Drawing out the Beast (ani, VtES common) is >resolved at the end of the round. Hence I would assume that all normal >*and* agg damage is resolved during strike resolution *before* the >DotB damage, correct? Spot on. If your 2-cap vamp takes 3 agg and one DotB, he burns his two blood, goes to torpor, and takes an additional point that doesn't matter since it's normal and he's already in torpor. >6) I think I've asked this before but I'd just like to check. The >blood loss/gain from Theft of Vitae (tha, VtES/Sabbat common) is >resolved before normal strike damage, correct? 'Steal blood' resolves when it happens. say a full 3-cap w/THA is in combat. Your opponent strikes-hands for 1. You steal 2 blood from him. He loses the blood THEN, and you gain it. Any excess drains off immediately, so you are still at 3 blood. Now all strike damage resolves; he has 0 damage, you have 1, and you burn 1 blood to heal it - you're at 2, and he's down 2 blood. -- Derek Deafness never kept composers from hearing the music. It only stopped them hearing the distractions.

Derek Ray wrote: > On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:57:29 GMT, mi...@vekn.org.uk (Mike Nudd) wrote: > >Despite having a set of erratas/rulings in hand, I still get asked > >questions by players that either confuse me or stump me.... > > > >1) When *exactly* is the sup version of the Psyche (cel, VtES > >uncommon) card played? Recently we had an instance where combat > >occurred where one minion had a Raptor in play. At the end of combat, > >which would come first: > > > >a) the opportunity to re-draw the lost card in response to the Raptor > >b) the opportunity to play Psyche to begin combat again > > You redraw your lost card when combat ends. Psyche's card text states > "only usable at the end of a combat", so would be played AFTER combat > had ended. I would say you redraw the card, and then someone can play > Psyche to restart combat. Correct. Psyche is played after combat, by which time your hand size is no longer reduced. > >2) From the rulings given, and from previous discussions here onthe > >group I understand that all cards played that modify hand damage do > >not apply to strikes with melee weapons. > > Not necessarily. Undead Strength specifically states "hand or melee > weapon". Torn Signpost modifies base hand damage (strength), so you > would gain its bonus when striking with a melee weapon as well. If it > increases hand damage, it can apply to a melee weapon. If it ALTERS > hand damage (say, to make it aggravated), it doesn't work with a > weapon anymore. > > >However, what about the base hand damage of a vampire? If a vampire > >with +1 hand damage (base) strikes with a Bang Nakh (weapon, AH > >common) then would not his base damage count to make the strike a > >total of 4 damage? I would like to think that this is the case. > > Yep. Right first try. > > >If the above is true then what about vampires whose base hand damage > >is aggravated (e.g. Thetmes)? Would the agg pass through to the melee > >weapon or not? > > Nope. His HANDS are aggravated, not his Bang-Up Knockers. > > This is complicated by the use of "hand damage" to mean both > "strength" and "hand damage" itself =/ In one instance, it refers to > an accumulative amount. In the other, it refers to the TYPE of > damage... "Thetmes inflicts aggravated hand damage" meaning that when > he hits with his hands, it's agg for some reason. Maybe he has the > creeping funky-funk or something. Correct. See the revised rulebook for clairification on these points. [6.4.5] > >3) Can the card Contract (master, AH common) be played by a methuselah > >before any vampires come into play? The card does not state any > >pre-requisites except naming an Assamite. This would indicate that an > >Assamite can be named, regardless of whether he is play, or who brings > >him into play. > > (headshake) You need to have the Assamite to be named in play. I > believe there is an official clarification to this effect. Correct. Playing Cards * If a card targets (chooses, selects, is played on, etc.) another card, then the card can only be played if an appropriate target is available. Examples: Strike: Steal/Destroy Equipment/Weapon cannot be used if the opposing minion doesn't have a suitable Equipment/Weapon to be destroyed/stolen. [RTR 28-SEP-1998] > >4) When *exactly* can you play damage modifiers to a strike? I was > >under the impression that cards such as Wolf Claws (prot, VtES common) > >could be played at any point up until the strike itself is announced. > >Some players claim they can play such cards after the strikes by both > >vampires have been announced. This makes absolutely no sense to me. > >Can someone clarify this, and state their reasoning? > > You can modify with something like Wolf Claws at any time *before* > strike resolution. This includes the period after strikes have been > announced, and before strike resolution begins. So yes, you can > hand-strike for 1, your opponent DOESN'T dodge, and then you pull out > the Claws on him. > > IANLSJ (sic), so I don't know his original reasoning. That ruling [12-JAN-1996] predates my affiliation with Wizards of the Coast [24-FEB-1997]. But *a* rationalization is: You can see the strike coming (a hand being drawn back, for instance), but (unless the opposing vamp chooses to make a show of the claw beforehand) you won't see the claws until they scratch you. Similarly for ammo: you can see that a gun is being aimed/fired at you, but you won't know what kind of ammo is being used until it rips into you (or bounces off of you :-) > >5) The damage for the card Drawing out the Beast (ani, VtES common) is > >resolved at the end of the round. Hence I would assume that all normal > >*and* agg damage is resolved during strike resolution *before* the > >DotB damage, correct? > > Spot on. If your 2-cap vamp takes 3 agg and one DotB, he burns his > two blood, goes to torpor, and takes an additional point that doesn't > matter since it's normal and he's already in torpor. Correct. > >6) I think I've asked this before but I'd just like to check. The > >blood loss/gain from Theft of Vitae (tha, VtES/Sabbat common) is > >resolved before normal strike damage, correct? > > 'Steal blood' resolves when it happens. say a full 3-cap w/THA is in > combat. Your opponent strikes-hands for 1. You steal 2 blood from > him. He loses the blood THEN, and you gain it. Any excess drains off > immediately, so you are still at 3 blood. Now all strike damage > resolves; he has 0 damage, you have 1, and you burn 1 blood to heal it > - you're at 2, and he's down 2 blood. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.geocities.com/vtesrep Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Thanks for the help people Mike Nudd VEKN Prince of London mi...@vekn.org.uk [ quoted text not captured ]