Sniper Rifle V.S. Drawing out the Beast

Does anybody know the answer to this one? When blocking you can set the range using the Sniper rifle but what if the other player plays a Drawing out the Beast can I still set the range although I can't use the sniper rifle?

[ quoted text not captured ] Acting meth has precedence. Sorrow --- "Happiness sucks" -me

> When blocking you can set the range using the Sniper rifle but what if > the other player plays a Drawing out the Beast can I still set the > range although I can't use the sniper rifle? You can't use equipment -- the set range aspect of the Sniper Rifle would still count as using equipment. So no, you cannot. The Fanboy

ebo...@hotmail.com (Emile Bosman) wrote in message news:<cbf416fb.0109...@posting.google.com>... [ quoted text not captured ] I know for sure Dotb wins : the other guy doesn't get the opportunity to set the range. JC

> > Does anybody know the answer to this one? > > When blocking you can set the range using the Sniper rifle but what if > > the other player plays a Drawing out the Beast can I still set the > > range although I can't use the sniper rifle? > I know for sure Dotb wins : the other guy doesn't get the opportunity > to set the range. Except that the set range power of the Sniper Rifle isn't used during the "establish range" phase of combat; that phase of combat is skipped altogether. As such, it is used "before range is determined", just as DotB. Since they are both used during the same phase of combat, the acting meth has precedence. Sorrow --- I keep telling them that I think they're out to get me. They ask me if I feel remorse and I answer, "Why of course! There's so much more I could have done if they'd let me!" So it's Rorschach and Prozac and everything is groovy

> Except that the set range power of the Sniper Rifle isn't used during the > "establish range" phase of combat; that phase of combat is skipped altogether. > As such, it is used "before range is determined", just as DotB. Since they are > both used during the same phase of combat, the acting meth has precedence. > > Sorrow Of course, I agree with you, but the set range ability of the sniper rifle can only be used by a blocking minion, which of course means that the acting minion is the one playing the drawing out the beast. So, there is only one situation where this will come into play, and therefore the sniper rifle never gets to set range to long. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

In message <_uLp7.8347$5j7.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, X_Zealot <x_ze...@bellsouth.net> writes >> Except that the set range power of the Sniper Rifle isn't used during the >> "establish range" phase of combat; that phase of combat is skipped >altogether. >> As such, it is used "before range is determined", just as DotB. Since >they are >> both used during the same phase of combat, the acting meth has precedence. >> >> Sorrow > >Of course, I agree with you, but the set range ability of the sniper rifle >can only be used by a blocking minion, which of course means that the >acting minion is the one playing the drawing out the beast. Though they may not necessarily have used it. Acting Meth: "Nothing pre-range from me." Blocking Meth: "Set range to long from the Sniper Rifle." Acting Meth: "Ack. Oh, I forgot my Barrens. Discard Telepathic Counter. Coo, I drew Drawing out the Beast." -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Close your eyes so you don't feel them EBD690ECD7A1F They don't need to see you cry B457CA213D7E6 I can't promise I will heal you, but if you want to I will try 68C3695D623D5D

> Of course, I agree with you, but the set range ability of the sniper rifle > can only be used by a blocking minion, which of course means that the > acting minion is the one playing the drawing out the beast. So, there is > only one situation where this will come into play, and therefore the sniper > rifle never gets to set range to long. Indeed. That's why I didn't say the Sniper Rifle gets precedence, but instead the acting meth gets precedence. See James Coupe's example scenario. Sorrow --- "I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection." - Narrator

On 18 Sep 2001 07:42:01 -0700, jan-christoph...@cre.fr (JC) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] DotB does not beat Cailean or Shadow Step, which both set range without using equipment and without maneuvering -- see DotB's card text. But DotB's prohibition against using equipment stops a Sniper Rifle cold, because you can't use the Rifle or any of its features (such as the 'set range'). -- Derek AGITATOR, n. A statesman who shakes the fruit trees of his neighbors -- to dislodge the worms.

Sorrow wrote: > > > Does anybody know the answer to this one? > > When blocking you can set the range using the Sniper rifle but what if > > the other player plays a Drawing out the Beast can I still set the > > range although I can't use the sniper rifle? > > Acting meth has precedence. Correct. Both "set range" and "DotB" effects are used "before range is determined", so acting Meth gets first shot at playing one of these effects. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>In message <_uLp7.8347$5j7.1...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, >>> Except that the set range power of the Sniper Rifle isn't used during the >>> "establish range" phase of combat; that phase of combat is skipped >>altogether. >>> As such, it is used "before range is determined", just as DotB. Since >>they are >>> both used during the same phase of combat, the acting meth has precedence. >>> >>> Sorrow >> >>Of course, I agree with you, but the set range ability of the sniper rifle >>can only be used by a blocking minion, which of course means that the >>acting minion is the one playing the drawing out the beast. > >Though they may not necessarily have used it. > >Acting Meth: "Nothing pre-range from me." >Blocking Meth: "Set range to long from the Sniper Rifle." >Acting Meth: "Ack. Oh, I forgot my Barrens. Discard Telepathic Counter. > Coo, I drew Drawing out the Beast." Here's a better scenario for you. Acting Methuselah: "Nothing Pre-Range from me" Blocking Minion: "I play Disguised Weapon to arm with a Sniper Rifle, and immediately use its special power to set the range to long" Acting Methuselah: "OK. I play DOtB. Wish I had done so in the first place, but I didn't want to get hit for +1 hand damage at short range". -- John Whelan

In message <20010922045544...@mb-fv.news.cs.com>, Nystulc <nys...@cs.com> writes >Acting Methuselah: "Nothing Pre-Range from me" >Blocking Minion: "I play Disguised Weapon to arm with a Sniper > Rifle, and immediately use its special power to set the range >to long" Card text says: "If the bearer blocks an action" After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not block an action. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D When all the world seemed to sleep, why, why did you go? EBD690ECD7A1F Was it me? Was it you? B457CA213D7E6 Questions in a world of blue. 68C3695D623D5D

James Coupe wrote: >Card text says: > > "If the bearer blocks an action" > >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not >block an action. He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he satisfies the requirements of playing the effect regardless of whether he was the bearer when the block began.. He is still blocking, the combat being part of the resolution of the block. The only way one could get around this conclusion is to rule that the effect must always be played OUTSIDE of combat during the block attempt stage -- but it does not seem to me that the card has any such explicit restriction.. LSJ? -- John Whelan

Nystulc wrote: > James Coupe wrote: > >Card text says: > > > > "If the bearer blocks an action" > > > >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not > >block an action. > > He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did. Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks. > satisfies the requirements of playing the effect regardless of whether he was > the bearer when the block began.. > > He is still blocking, the combat being part of the resolution of the block. Combat is part of the block, yes. > The only way one could get around this conclusion is to rule that the effect > must always be played OUTSIDE of combat during the block attempt stage -- but > it does not seem to me that the card has any such explicit restriction.. > > LSJ? I'm not sure what you mean by that OUTSIDE of combat part. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: >Nystulc wrote: >> James Coupe wrote: >> >Card text says: >> > >> > "If the bearer blocks an action" >> > >> >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not >> >block an action. >> >> He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he > >He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did. > >Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an >action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks. Hmm. But he *is* blocking, is he not? The blocking minion? Had card text been "if the bearer is blocking an action" would your ruling then have been different? . [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: >Nystulc wrote: >> James Coupe wrote: >> >Card text says: >> > >> > "If the bearer blocks an action" >> > >> >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not >> >block an action. >> >> He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he > >He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did. > >Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an >action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks. Hmm. But he *is* blocking, is he not? The blocking minion? Had the card read "if the bearer is blocking an action" would your ruling have been different? >> satisfies the requirements of playing the effect regardless of whether he >was >> the bearer when the block began.. >> >> He is still blocking, the combat being part of the resolution of the block. > >Combat is part of the block, yes. > >> The only way one could get around this conclusion is to rule that the >effect >> must always be played OUTSIDE of combat during the block attempt stage -- >but >> it does not seem to me that the card has any such explicit restriction.. >> >> LSJ? > >I'm not sure what you mean by that OUTSIDE of combat part. I merely assumed that if you interepreted the cards use of the present tense to mean that requirements for playing the effect are past by the time combat starts, this necessarily leads to the conclusion that the effect must be played before combat starts. -- John Whelan

Nystulc wrote: > > LSJ wrote: > >Nystulc wrote: > >> James Coupe wrote: > >> >Card text says: > >> > > >> > "If the bearer blocks an action" > >> > > >> >After you have brought the card into play via DW, the bearer does not > >> >block an action. > >> > >> He is in fact the bearer, and he does in fact block. Seems to me that he > > > >He "did" in fact block. But he wasn't a bearer when he did. > > > >Card text isn't "if bearer blocked an action...", it's "if bearer blocks an > >action...". Present tense. He must be the bearer when he blocks. > > Hmm. But he *is* blocking, is he not? The blocking minion? Had card text > been "if the bearer is blocking an action" would your ruling then have been > different? . Present perfect tense, yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

Nystulc wrote: > LSJ wrote: > >> The only way one could get around this conclusion is to rule that the > >effect > >> must always be played OUTSIDE of combat during the block attempt stage -- > >but > >> it does not seem to me that the card has any such explicit restriction.. > >> > >> LSJ? > > > >I'm not sure what you mean by that OUTSIDE of combat part. > > I merely assumed that if you interepreted the cards use of the present tense to > mean that requirements for playing the effect are past by the time combat > starts, this necessarily leads to the conclusion that the effect must be played > before combat starts. No. He can set range during the resulting combat. See also Guard Dogs - the manuever is not used "before combat starts". [ quoted text not captured ]