rule question LSJ

I was wondering how to rule on a situation: A player equips with a leather jacket, he forgets to untap his vamp at the end of his turn... Is it too late? (I though so) but the other player stated that untaping is a must action so you have to untap your vamp even if your turn is done... I have seen a similar argument concerning the edge... where some players consider that they can take the edge or the 1 blood at any time during their turn... I always played with the sequence "untap" "edge" "master"... and if you forget to take the edge too bad you lost it this turn... (some players play on the wording: "may take the edge..." anyways hope you can confirm (or not) my ruling -- Hugues Bertrand Prince of Montreal www.geocities.com/princedemontreal princede...@yahoo.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Although I have no official standing, it's been my experience that it's up to the mercy of the group you're playing with if you forget something during your turn. Most will be forgiving if you take your pool from the edge during your master or minion phase instead of untap. Also, even though hunting grounds are mandatory, once the time has long since passed, it's probably too late. I think in a tourney situation, you may just be out of luck though. -Brian "Packer" <princede...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:8rp266$ego$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

After all the recent glop, I feel the need to state out front: I AIN'T THE NET.REP. I DON'T SPEAK FOR NOBODY. I'M JUST ME. That said, ... let's see if I can get one right. <user is still embarrassed about Spying Mission> On Sun, 08 Oct 2000 05:54:15 GMT, Packer <princede...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I was wondering how to rule on a situation: >A player equips with a leather jacket, he forgets to untap his vamp at >the end of his turn... Is it too late? (I though so) but the other >player stated that untaping is a must action so you have to untap your >vamp even if your turn is done... card text: "If a minion successfully equips with Leather Jacket, untap that minion at the end of the turn." To me, this means "you WILL untap that minion", not "you MAY untap that minion." We usually play that if you blow one of your "may" actions/effects, such as moving blood to or from a Blood Doll, or gaining one for the Edge, and it's past that phase, you're screwed - think more carefully next time. But "must" actions such as a Leather Jacket, etc. we usually hold to be "retro" - so if it's your grandprey's turn and you suddenly realize "Damn, that vamp should've been untapped", then he untaps with no real harm done, since he should have been untapped anyway. (It can also work against you - if someone is trying to Mind Numb your guy, you can't "forget" to untap from the LJ. =) >I have seen a similar argument concerning the edge... where some >players consider that they can take the edge or the 1 blood at any time >during their turn... I always played with the (head shake) It can happen anytime during your untap phase, since you may order events during your untap, but it certainly can't happen OUTSIDE your untap. =) >sequence "untap" "edge" "master"... and if you forget to take the edge >too bad you lost it this turn... (some players play on the >wording: "may take the edge..." Rules text: "4. Untap ...If you have the Edge, you may take one blood counter from the blood bank and add it to your pool." 'may' means 'may' to us, not 'must'. In our little Corner O' The World, if you don't do a "may" action during the right phase, you chose not to and can't change your mind later. We relax this a lot for the new players who play with us since they tend to have enough trouble just remembering the PHASES, but will enforce it on ourselves just as a reminder to use our stinkin' little heads when we play. ...which didn't stop me from trying to play Direct Intervention during my own turn at least 3 different times during Dragon*Con's Sabbat Draft. Aieee! -- Derek "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

Packer <princede...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I was wondering how to rule on a situation: > A player equips with a leather jacket, he forgets to untap his vamp at > the end of his turn... Is it too late? (I though so) but the other > player stated that untaping is a must action so you have to untap > your vamp even if your turn is done... Well, the untapping is mandatory, but it is also mandatory that it happen at a certain time. How you handle such procedural errors is up to your group. The V:EKN penalty guidelines include the following in section 114: When the error is noticed and no significant game actions have taken place, the error should be corrected. If any significant game actions have taken place (such as moving to the next player's turn) it may be better to leave the game undisturbed or impose some other game sanction (loss of a pool, for instance) since players have made play decisions based on the present state of the game. It is important that the player committing the infraction receive no benefit in the game for doing so. > I have seen a similar argument concerning the edge... where some > players consider that they can take the edge or the 1 blood at > any time during their turn... I always played with the sequence > "untap" "edge" "master"... and if you forget to take the edge > too bad you lost it this turn... (some players play on the > wording: "may take the edge..." Gaining a pool during your untap for controlling the Edge is optional. If you leave your untap phase and begin your minion phase or master phase, then you can't go back and collect the one pool. House rules typically provide some leniency here, according to other posts in thread (as well as my own experience). But in a VEKN tournament, such leniency is not allowed. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]