LSJ- More Saulot Abuse

Saulot with Enkil Cog taps Enkil Cog at the end of his predators turn to Spirit Marionette his preys vampire. Since it is not his minion phase, the Spirit Marrionetted vampire can not bleed During Saulot's untap phase, he Khobar Tower's the Spirit Marionetted minion Is this correct?

[ quoted text not captured ] Assuming your predator doesn't take an action after he gets the impulse back, yes. Card text on Spirit Marionette: "+1 stealth action. (D) Take control of any ready untapped minion until the end of the next action. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt." -witness1

witness1 wrote: > On Jan 20, 12:04 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: >> Saulot with Enkil Cog taps Enkil Cog at the end of his predators turn >> to Spirit Marionette his preys vampire. >> >> Since it is not his minion phase, the Spirit Marrionetted vampire can >> not bleed >> >> During Saulot's untap phase, he Khobar Tower's the Spirit Marionetted >> minion >> >> Is this correct? > > Assuming your predator doesn't take an action after he gets the > impulse back, yes. Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, if Saulot is your prey and has Enkil Cog on him, you *must* leave either no minions untapped or 2 minions untapped. Otherwise you're in for a world of hurt.

[ quoted text not captured ] Just came here to point out that minion steal is broken, not Heidelberg Castle. Jeff

[ quoted text not captured ] What makes you believe it isn't correct? Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Las Vegas NAQ 2009! http://members.cox.net/vtesinlv/

[ quoted text not captured ] Not the fact that the prey (presumably) left all his minions tapped? Not the fact that most minion stealing (and most actions) need either a bunch of stealth or for you to leave all your minions tapped for them to succeed? No wonder Ben Peal wins so much! BlackDiamond(TM) is broken! p.s. I thought they printed Waaaambulance in a previous set! ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

>> Just came here to point out that minion steal is broken, not >> Heidelberg Castle. > > Not the fact that the prey (presumably) left all his minions tapped? Actually having all minions tapped is probably the best defense against Spirit Marionette played via Enkil Cog. As you probably know, the target of the SM action has to be untapped. It's pretty hard for Saulot alone to untap *and* steal a minion during the single action allowed by EC. -- -bur

[ quoted text not captured ] Saulot with Malks, wooohooo!

[ quoted text not captured ] Saulot stealing a fortitude minion from your prey draining blood off him via heidelberg and then hunting with daring is the dawn is nifty too :)

[ quoted text not captured ] Saulot stealing, heidelberging to one, then bleeding with fore of will and daring inf is very cute...

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm not sure how that would work either... Your predator acts with his last minion. During his action, one of your Malks plays Babble to untap one of his minions. He now has a minion untapped... so he acts with that minion. Even if it's just to hunt, he can almost always take some sort of action. Of course, Restricted Vitae would help... but that assumes there aren't other table actions they can take. Barring Restricted Vitae, the only way to keep them from acting is to make them very afraid of being blocked by Saulot. But it's always preferrable to have your minion borked in combat than to have them stolen by your prey and removed from the game in a way that gives your prey X pool... So really, if your prey has Saulot with Enkil Cog, you either leave 2 minions untapped, or none, always.

[ quoted text not captured ] Pray for stupid prey? ;)

>So really, if your prey has Saulot with Enkil Cog, you > either leave 2 minions untapped, or none, always. Since your minions come into play untapped, once you see Saulot with the Enkil Cog, you can not influence any more minions into play. So Saulot wins by being able to influence more minions into play than anyone else.

On Jan 20, 9:41 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > Saulot with Enkil Cog taps Enkil Cog at the end of his predators > > turn to Spirit Marionette his preys vampire. > > > Since it is not his minion phase, the Spirit Marrionetted vampire > > can not bleed > > > During Saulot's untap phase, he Khobar Tower's the Spirit > > Marionetted minion > > > Is this correct? > > What makes you believe it isn't correct? The fact that it is relatively easy to accomplish and highly abusive make it mandatory for me to ask.

[ quoted text not captured ] You can't bleed with Force of Will as Spirit Marionette only steals UNTAPPED minions.

[ quoted text not captured ] While 1 > 0 (making the "none" difficult to pull off if you bring out a new minion in your influence phase), sources tell me that 1 < 2 meaning you could leave one already-influenced guy standing when you plan on bringing a new guy out in your influence phase to make 2. Unless Saulot is out with the Cog before you get any minions. Then you may be in trouble.

[ quoted text not captured ] oh yah. sucks, another diabolical plot foiled by my archenemy, Karhd Tekst. Damn Karhd Tekst...

[ quoted text not captured ] Isn't this all moot? The guy you influenced out this turn can't take an action to cause the Spirit Marionette effect to end before Saulot's untap, but that doesn't matter because Saulot can't steal the newly influenced minion during your influence phase either. Saulot can always steal the minion his prey influences out, but as long as one of his grand-prey, grand-predator, or predator takes an action before Saulot gets another turn, the Khobar Tower trick fails. Sure, if Saulot's the only ready minion (or very close to it), nobody can ever influence another vamp, but he costs 11, Khobar Towers requires a Setite, and Saulot has to bleed *his prey* successfully to get a Cog. If he gets the setup *and* kills enough other minions to make it work *and* has enough Spirit Marionette to make the trick work reliably, the table can still get around it by influencing several new minions out in the same round. -witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] Saulot can steal ANY untapped minion at the end of his PREDATOR'S MINION PHASE with Enkil Cog and feed them into the KHOBAR TOWERS and there is NOTHING that you can do about it with NEUTRAL GUARD unless you are playing DI/DL or you control an 11cap. So if anyone OTHER than Saulot's predator influences ANY vampires into play, then barring DI/DL effect there is very little you can do to prevent this. So if you are his PREY/GRANDPREY/GRANDPREDATOR, you risk getting your newly influenced minion liquidated into pool for Saulot's controller BEFORE you get the chance to tap him. So if it takes 4 turns to influence Saulot into play with a Small FoS (let's say 5 turns) then you can threaten any player's new vampire with liquidation from turn 6 on into the game. ...but you may think that is reasonable and fun

witness1 wrote: > Isn't this all moot? The guy you influenced out this turn can't take > an action to cause the Spirit Marionette effect to end before Saulot's > untap, but that doesn't matter because Saulot can't steal the newly > influenced minion during your influence phase either. Saulot can > always steal the minion his prey influences out, but as long as one of > his grand-prey, grand-predator, or predator takes an action before > Saulot gets another turn, the Khobar Tower trick fails. Ah, that, too.

On Jan 21, 12:30 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Saulot can steal ANY untapped minion at the end of his PREDATOR'S > MINION PHASE with Enkil Cog and feed them into the KHOBAR TOWERS and > there is NOTHING that you can do about it with NEUTRAL GUARD unless > you are playing DI/DL or you control an 11cap. He cannot feed them into Khobar Towers unless his Predator has no untapped minions _after_ he plays Spirit Marionette, no matter whose minion he takes. Because Saulot cannot do anything "at the end of his predator's minion phase"; he does it "after his predator has declared he is done taking actions." Because the moment Saulot finishes acting, the predator gets to resume his minion phase, including taking more actions. And a single action taken by his predator reverts control of the stolen minion right back to the orignal owner. > So if anyone OTHER than Saulot's predator influences ANY vampires into > play, then barring DI/DL effect there is very little you can do to > prevent this. You can say "Hey, leave a guy untapped, Saulot's predator?" Because (again, since you do not seem to comprehend this) Saulot cannot take a minion without giving your predator the chance to act again and revert the stolen minion. > So if you are his PREY/GRANDPREY/GRANDPREDATOR, you risk getting your > newly influenced minion liquidated into pool for Saulot's controller > BEFORE you get the chance to tap him. Yes, that is true. On the other hand, if you are anyone at the table, you risk Saulot - without the Enkil Cog - pulling the "give you a fortitude master, steal you unblockably, heidleburg and then bleed you burning you" trick that has been around for literally years. And your minion would be just as burned before you get the chance to tap him. > So if it takes 4 turns to influence Saulot into play with a Small FoS > (let's say 5 turns) then you can threaten any player's new vampire > with liquidation from turn 6 on into the game. And if your predator has a single minion that he intends to leave untapped as a counter to this, your threat to anyone but your predator is utterly and wholly without teeth. -John Flournoy

> > Saulot can steal ANY untapped minion at the end of his PREDATOR'S > MINION PHASE with Enkil Cog and feed them into the KHOBAR TOWERS and > there is NOTHING that you can do about it with NEUTRAL GUARD unless > you are playing DI/DL or you control an 11cap. > > So if anyone OTHER than Saulot's predator influences ANY vampires into > play, then barring DI/DL effect there is very little you can do to > prevent this. Any of the gazillion ways to steal or burn a location (which Khobar Towers is) also neuters this strategy, btw, as does Sudden/Washing the master action to bring it into play. -John Flournoy

On Jan 21, 12:44 pm, John Flournoy <carne...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jan 21, 12:30 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > Saulot can steal ANY untapped minion at the end of his PREDATOR'S > > MINION PHASE with Enkil Cog and feed them into the KHOBAR TOWERS and > > there is NOTHING that you can do about it with NEUTRAL GUARD unless > > you are playing DI/DL or you control an 11cap. > > He cannot feed them into Khobar Towers unless his Predator has no > untapped minions _after_ he plays Spirit Marionette, no matter whose > minion he takes. <snip everything that John wrote, that I agree with> Right! So when your predator only has 1 minion left untapped. Saulot taps Enkil Cog, interupts your predator's turn, and Spirit Marionette's him to feed him into the Khobar Towers. Of course Saulot's predator could leave two minions untapped FOR THE REST OF THE GAME to foil this play. F U N > > So if anyone OTHER than Saulot's predator influences ANY vampires into > > play, then barring DI/DL effect there is very little you can do to > > prevent this. > > You can say "Hey, leave a guy untapped, Saulot's predator?" Because > (again, since you do not seem to comprehend this) Saulot cannot take a > minion without giving your predator the chance to act again and revert > the stolen minion. See above to see what happens when Saulot's predator "leaves a guy untapped" > And if your predator has a single minion that he intends to leave > untapped as a counter to this, your threat to anyone but your predator > is utterly and wholly without teeth. Nope, you are just providing ammunition for Saulot See above to see what happens when Saulot's predator "leaves a guy untapped"

[ quoted text not captured ] I think it was worth asking. However, it's also fairly trivially easy to counter as this deck's predator (make sure you will have a minion left to act after Saulot does), and reasonably easy to counter as anybody else on the table (burn or steal the location). This particular trick was able to be set up roughly equivalently the moment Saulot was printed (Saulot CI's to Malkavian, puts the madness network out and proceeds from there). It certainly wasn't being "highly abused" over the last three years - only a very few Saulot decks have won tournaments, and none of them were even trying to set up a Khobar trick. Thus, I fail to see how this has suddenly gotten so much _more_ abusive than it was in the past - especially since the rule about 'actions that take place on other people's turns' has been changed/ clarified, making it significantly _easier_ to foil (since Saulot cannot prevent his predator from having a chance to act again, unlike in the past where MMNetwork actions could not have subsequent actions by the predator.) -John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, if you have it in your hand on the turn that it comes into play, but if not then Saulot can do ALOT of damage prior to someone playing a card that destroys/steals a location.

On Jan 21, 12:30 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > So if it takes 4 turns to influence Saulot into play with a Small FoS > (let's say 5 turns) then you can threaten any player's new vampire > with liquidation from turn 6 on into the game. Later than that, because you still have to get Enkil Cog onto Saulot, and there's no guarantee that you'll be able to successfully, immediately bleed your prey with him - if your prey bounces or reduces your bleeds with Saulot (which may very well happen a lot of the time), it may be significantly later than that before you can get a Cog onto him to start making any sort of threat. -John Flournoy

On Jan 21, 1:54 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > On Jan 21, 12:44 pm, John Flournoy <carne...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jan 21, 12:30 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > > Saulot can steal ANY untapped minion at the end of his PREDATOR'S > > > MINION PHASE with Enkil Cog and feed them into the KHOBAR TOWERS and > > > there is NOTHING that you can do about it with NEUTRAL GUARD unless > > > you are playing DI/DL or you control an 11cap. > > > He cannot feed them into Khobar Towers unless his Predator has no > > untapped minions _after_ he plays Spirit Marionette, no matter whose > > minion he takes. > > <snip everything that John wrote, that I agree with> > > Right! So when your predator only has 1 minion left untapped. Saulot > taps Enkil Cog, interupts your predator's turn, and Spirit > Marionette's him to feed him into the Khobar Towers. Of course > Saulot's predator could leave two minions untapped FOR THE REST OF THE > GAME to foil this play. F U N Or, starting the turn Saulot's controller has the entire combo in play, everyone can tap out all of their minions every turn (and still be able to influence out more minions safely, contrary to your comments above). -witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] Correction - when someone besides Saulot's predator influences a minion, Saulot's predator will need to leave 2 minions untapped. -witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] How can you influence out more minions safely? They come into play untapped? They are vulnerable until they get a chance to tap. How do you tap your newly influenced vampire (barring card effects such as Gran Madre di Dio, Italy) before Saulot gets a chance at them?

[ quoted text not captured ] Right, so 1 player, Saulot's predator, effectively doesn't get to play as he has to leave 2 of his minions untapped to foil the Saulot combo. So Saulot's predator gets to play with his thumb up his butt for 2 hours. Are we having fun yet?

On Jan 21, 12:54 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > And if your predator has a single minion that he intends to leave > > untapped as a counter to this, your threat to anyone but your predator > > is utterly and wholly without teeth. > > Nope, you are just providing ammunition for Saulot > > See above to see what happens when Saulot's predator "leaves a guy > untapped" This is true, but not my point. You specifically mentioned how Saulot can threaten people who are not your predator. My point is that if you are one of those players, that threat can be countered by cutting a deal with Saulot's predator in some fashion, and if the predator is willing to do so, Saulot has no easy ability to threaten you. Yes, he can continue to threaten his predator in such a circumstance - but not anybody else, unless the predator allows it. -John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] Assuming Saulot has _both_ drawn his combo promptly, and found a way to get the Cog into play (which is by no means guaranteed, and certainly not guaranteed to work as soon as possible.) -John Flournoy

XZealot wrote: > Right, so 1 player, Saulot's predator, effectively doesn't get to play > as he has to leave 2 of his minions untapped to foil the Saulot combo. > > So Saulot's predator gets to play with his thumb up his butt for 2 > hours. Are we having fun yet? There are just so many different ways that things can go wrong for the Saulot deck that I don't think it's going to be such a huge issue. But by all means, go nuts and see if you can break it. I imagine it will be quite nasty when it goes off, but then a lot of combos are. That's why people play combos, rather than just GtU all the time. -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] Of course, unless Saulot is consistently drawing ways to untap (freak drives, or other methods) Saulot is -also- sitting with his thumb up his butt, remaining untapped in the hopes that he'll be able to pull this trick off. In fact, I'd expect that most of the time this deck is likely to give Saulot's prey a very, very free hand - he certainly isn't going to block much, because it quickly gets expensive to continually block and yet be untapped for the predator's turn. -John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] let's not forget other people playing cards on Saulot. Like Bum's Rush. Or the Saulot player being bled for 15 before Saulot even comes out. or...etc. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] I, personally, don't consider it 'relatively easy to accomplish'. But I am happy for people to ask these sorts of qns. :) [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, there IS minor irritation. But thats only minorly irritating...

[ quoted text not captured ] There's a couple of ways to do it, but they all generally require blood expenditures (thus the quickly gets expensive part.) Minor Irritation's a good answer, though; I always assume it requires a blood. -John Flournoy

> > Or, starting the turn Saulot's controller has the entire combo in > > play, everyone can tap out all of their minions every turn (and still > > be able to influence out more minions safely, contrary to your > > comments above). > > How can you influence out more minions safely? They come into play > untapped? They are vulnerable until they get a chance to tap. > > How do you tap your newly influenced vampire (barring card effects > such as Gran Madre di Dio, Italy) before Saulot gets a chance at them? You don't have to tap them. You just have to have one person take one action between the time when Saulot can steal them and the Saulot players untap phase. So I guess nobody at the table except Saulot's predator can be guaranteed to safely influence a new minion, if the predator wishes. > > Correction - when someone besides Saulot's predator influences a > > minion, Saulot's predator will need to leave 2 minions untapped. > > Right, so 1 player, Saulot's predator, effectively doesn't get to play > as he has to leave 2 of his minions untapped to foil the Saulot combo. > > So Saulot's predator gets to play with his thumb up his butt for 2 > hours. Are we having fun yet? Someone's influencing a new minion every turn for 2 hours? Plus, if the new minion is small enough, or controlled by your own predator, it might be in your interest to let your prey eat it. And all of this ignores every other kind of interaction that might stop Saulot from doing his trick. Besides all the various mechanisms already mentioned in the thread, there are: rushing and beating the heck out of Saulot contesting Enkil Cog tapping Saulot with master cards or actions Pentex Subversion I'm sure you could come up with others if you tried. -witness1

On Jan 21, 2:44 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > Right, so 1 player, Saulot's predator, effectively doesn't get to play > as he has to leave 2 of his minions untapped to foil the Saulot combo. > > So Saulot's predator gets to play with his thumb up his butt for 2 > hours. Are we having fun yet? Not quite. It's a multiplayer game... if one player has a table winning combo out (or just something annoying like a bunch of Events) it will be in the interests of most of the other players to see them gone. In this situation, Saulot's predator is the ultimate controller in any ultimatum games that other players might pull to make him do anything... if you aren't playing ball, you better be tapping out because Saulot's predator doesn't have to bail you out (sometimes it's okay to let your prey bloat, especially when it's at the expense of players you can't deal with). So Saulot's predator is far from not playing for 2 hours... he may not be taking as many actions or playing as many cards, but he should be making up for that by continuously trying to negotiate Saulot off the table. Brent Ross

Salem <kell...@hotmail.com> wrote: >let's not forget other people playing cards on Saulot. Like Bum's Rush. > >Or the Saulot player being bled for 15 before Saulot even comes out. This is worth remembering. Any vampire with OBE coming out is, basically, planning to steal your vampires. Even if this isn't true, assume it's true. It's pretty much the power play. If an OBE vampire comes out and you can't handle that, remember that you can't gain more VPs if you're dead. So be prepared to back-oust the player, and negotiate with other people appropriately. A Dem deck can KS backwards. A politics deck can throw damage backwards. A rush deck can rush. A lockdown deck can lock down. And so on. About the only deck style that's really devoid of options here is a tunnel vision stealth-bleed deck, and I don't honestly have a problem with a one- dimensional, powerful deck type having a flaw. Of course, if players will treat V:TES as solitaire and not respond appropriately to other people's plays, they deserve to be beaten. If they build decks where they *can't* respond to other people's powerful plays and get eaten by someone else's powerful play, I can't shed too many tears. But honestly, OBE is such a huge target to aim at, anyone who's ever seen a Spirit Marionette used well should think about how to kick that player about, if they can't cope with the effects. -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

On Jan 21, 4:39 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > On Jan 20, 9:41 pm, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > > > XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > > Saulot with Enkil Cog taps Enkil Cog at the end of his predators > > > turn to Spirit Marionette his preys vampire. > > > > Since it is not his minion phase, the Spirit Marrionetted vampire > > > can not bleed > > > > During Saulot's untap phase, he Khobar Tower's the Spirit > > > Marionetted minion > > > > Is this correct? > > > What makes you believe it isn't correct? > > The fact that it is relatively easy to accomplish and highly abusive > make it mandatory for me to ask. Its not that easy to achieve and as John has repeatedly pointed out there are many ways to neuter it. This clutch of WAAAA!!! threads about minion stealing, based on your currecnt exp. of this combo in JOL i assume remind me of when Ector was complaining that OOT rotshit rush was BROKEN! because he got tonked by it a few times, I really cant see the difference aside from the fact he was laughed out of the house and this is still being debated. I look to the deck challenge thread with interest. Anthony

> I'm sure you could come up with others if you tried. Yeah I'm not sure Norm is saying that the deck is horribly broken, or that there aren't ways around it. I think his main concern (and forgive me if I'm misinterpreting, Norm) is that it would be a whole bunch of no fun for certain decks to sit next to a Saulot/Setite/ Towers deck. The deck probably wouldn't win, and whoever built it probably would rip it apart after he realised that it didn't win (unless he's the type of player who enjoys ruining other decks rather than gaining vps, in which case he might love it), but those few games you spend playing against it might be thoroughly unenjoyable. I'm sure we can all think of other match-ups that are totally un-fun, and i'm not sure being boned by Saulot/Towers would be any worse than being smashed by a combat deck before you get to act, or playing a Temptation deck against Imbued, or whatever. I just think he's putting up his hand and saying "this would really suck in certain situations". jase

> Yes, he can continue to threaten his predator in such a circumstance - > but not anybody else, unless the predator allows it. right, but Saulot's controller doesn't have to make any decision at all until his predator has chosen to end his minion phase whether his predator has minions untapped or not. So basically if Saulot's predator does something foolish like "not leave two minions untapped" then any player at the table with untapped minions is vulnerable. It's sort of the prisoners dilemma

[ quoted text not captured ] Sure. But that dilemma isn't necessarily one that his cross-table people care about. Any minion that gets influenced out once the combo is set up is potentially at risk. But not EVERY minion is at risk - Saulot can't eat more than one in a turn. If your predator brought somebody out, your risk is significantly reduced when you bring your own out. And if the predator announces (after Saulot's turn) that he's going to make sure Saulot can't Cog-eat anyone before Saulot's next turn, then the other three players can bring out whoever they like with impunity - and I'm betting that Saulot's predator in such a case can likely convince the table to give him assistance in ousting Saulot in exchange for protecting them from him... -John Flournoy

[ quoted text not captured ] Okay, he can't Cog-Eat someone but he can Spirit Marrionette/ Heidleburg/Freakdrive AND threaten to Cog Eat someone.

[ quoted text not captured ] Right, until then it's just spirit marionette/Heidleberg cruise control until you can get it off.

On Jan 21, 3:46 pm, Salem <kella...@hotmail.com> wrote: > John Flournoy wrote: > > On Jan 21, 12:30 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote: > > >> So if it takes 4 turns to influence Saulot into play with a Small FoS > >> (let's say 5 turns) then you can threaten any player's new vampire > >> with liquidation from turn 6 on into the game. > > > Later than that, because you still have to get Enkil Cog onto Saulot, > > and there's no guarantee that you'll be able to successfully, > > immediately bleed your prey with him - if your prey bounces or reduces > > your bleeds with Saulot (which may very well happen a lot of the > > time), it may be significantly later than that before you can get a > > Cog onto him to start making any sort of threat. > > let's not forget other people playing cards on Saulot. Like Bum's Rush. I the game I am in. He was rushed 4 times by War Ghouls by his prey to no avail.

> This clutch of WAAAA!!! threads about minion stealing, based on your > currecnt exp. of this combo in JOL i assume remind me of when Ector > was complaining that OOT rotshit rush was BROKEN! because he got > tonked by it a few times, OMG, you found out. XZealot=Ector!!!!! > I really cant see the difference aside from > the fact he was laughed out of the house and this is still being > debated. > > I look to the deck challenge thread with interest. Check it out. I also posted the link to the game where he has already ousted his Econo-Ghoul prey who spent every WarGhoul action backrushing Saulot.

[ quoted text not captured ] It doesn't involve Clan Impersonation, Ritual of the Bitter Rose or Mata Hari, ergo, "relatively easy to accomplish". :)

Howdy, > > I look to the deck challenge thread with interest. > > Check it out. I also posted the link to the game where he has already > ousted his Econo-Ghoul prey who spent every WarGhoul action > backrushing Saulot. I hope he at least trampled Heidelberg Castle into dust before he went... Alex ----- ARTHUR: Now, this is your last chance. I've been more than reasonable. GUARD: (Fetchez la vache.) wha? GUARD: (Fetchez la vache!) [moo] ARTHUR: If you do not agree to my commands, then I shall-- [twong] [mooooooo] Jesus Christ!

[ quoted text not captured ] why doesn't the prey just tap a war ghoul to burn the Khobar and/or heidlburg? if it's not so bad that it's not worth spending 3 pool (or less, depending on the war ghoul player's set up) and a pair of recruit/employ actions to break the combo, then, well, it's not so bad. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] I had never seen it before, nor had my prey.

On 21 jan, 23:50, James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote: > A rush deck can rush. A lockdown deck can lock down. And so on. Serious James is serious :)