[LSJ] Blocking, Illusions of the Kindred, Deception, and Jason

1.) Anneke, with serpentis, is blocking. Petru plays Shimulo Deception, anneke plays extortion. Petru plays Illusions of the Kindred, and then Extortion. The New vampire is another Petru. When combat from this Petru ends, Petru wishes to play Extortion. What's wrong with the above? Why? Especially that last bit. "...this vampire [petru: we can't tell the difference between this petru and the previous one, can we?] has succesfully blocked." so why are you going to say "no"? 2.) Jason is acting. He's blocked by Anneke. Same thing as above happens. Who burns blood? Anneke, Petru number one, or Petru number two (obviously the latter is moot if that second Petru isn't considered blocking). 3.) That first bits moot because the Illusionary Petru gets removed from the game before he could play a card that says "play after combat, if any", isn't it? Sorry... 4.) Is an IotK vampire from a succesful blocking vampire considered blocking? ~SV

In article <f987c6cd.03032...@posting.google.com>, vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote: >2.) Jason is acting. He's blocked by Anneke. Same thing as above >happens. Who burns blood? Anneke, Petru number one, or Petru number >two (obviously the latter is moot if that second Petru isn't >considered blocking). Petru does; Anneke ceased being the blocking vampire before there was a combat to burn a blood after. Which brings up the question, 'What about Donal O'Connor?' I think in that case both Anneke and Petru burn a blood. But I'm not sure. LSJ? >4.) Is an IotK vampire from a succesful blocking vampire considered >blocking? No. gomi -- Peace is generally good in itself, but it is never the highest good unless it comes as the handmaid of righteousness; and it becomes a very evil thing if it serves merely as a mask for cowardice and sloth, or as an instrument to further the ends of despotism or anarchy. --Theodore Roosevelt

vermillian wrote: > 1.) Anneke, with serpentis, is blocking. Petru plays Shimulo > Deception, anneke plays extortion. Petru plays Illusions of the > Kindred, and then Extortion. The New vampire is another Petru. When > combat from this Petru ends, Petru wishes to play Extortion. there is a problem in your demonstration. Extortion has to be played AFTER combat,if any. So here is what happens : Anneke succefully blocks. Petru plays Shilmulo Deception. Petru enters combat. Now you want to play Illusion of the kindred, fine. When the illusionary combat finishes, the original Petru TM can play extortion. -The illusion cannot play extortion,since he is not ready after the combat, and is not the blocking vampire. (this is why "i say no" : a vampire who's not in the game anymore *and* doesnt fulfill the condition on a card can't play a card.) -Anneke is no longer the blocking vampire, so she cannot play extortion either. > 2.) Jason is acting. He's blocked by Anneke. Same thing as above > happens. Who burns blood? Anneke, Petru number one, or Petru number > two (obviously the latter is moot if that second Petru isn't > considered blocking). Following the same logic, it's Petru number one, since he's the one who actually blocked the action. > 3.) That first bits moot because the Illusionary Petru gets removed > from the game before he could play a card that says "play after > combat, if any", isn't it? Sorry... he is removed from the game at the end of any round of combat where no press played during the press step, or at the end of the round of a combat interrupted in any manner : strike: combat ends, rotschreck, Illusion of the kindred, one of the combattant goes to torpor... So he's obviously not here after the combat. > 4.) Is an IotK vampire from a succesful blocking vampire considered > blocking? nope. and It's an illusion after all ;)

reyda wrote: I want to add something I wrote this : > Extortion has to be played AFTER combat,if any. > So here is what happens : Anneke succefully blocks. Petru plays > Shilmulo Deception. and then : > -Anneke is no longer the blocking vampire, so she cannot play > extortion either. my guess is that Shilmulo deception works as a defensive Mask of 1k faces. So Anneke meets the requirement to block the action -having enough intercept and being eligible as a blocker (not seduced etc...) and played cards Petru could have played (like pack tactics) but she is not the actual blocker. Petru is the blocker. I think LSJ can clarify it better =)

vermillian wrote: > 1.) Anneke, with serpentis, is blocking. Petru plays Shimulo > Deception, anneke plays extortion. Anneke cannot play Extortion. Extortion can only be played after combat. Also, after Shilmulo Deception, Anneke cannot play Extortion anyhow, since she is not the blocker. > Petru plays Illusions of the > Kindred, and then Extortion. OK. > The New vampire is another Petru. When > combat from this Petru ends, Petru wishes to play Extortion. Can't. Petru's already played one. Unless you're talking about the Illusion. The Illusion cannot play it either, for two reasons: 1) He's not the blocking minion. 2) After combat, he's not in the game. Vampires not in the game cannot play cards. > What's wrong with the above? Why? Especially that last bit. "...this > vampire [petru: we can't tell the difference between this petru and > the previous one, can we?] Of course we can. > has succesfully blocked." so why are you > going to say "no"? Because we can tell them apart (otherwise, how would we know which one to remove from the game?), and, overriding any other argument, he's not in the game. > 2.) Jason is acting. He's blocked by Anneke. Same thing as above > happens. Who burns blood? Anneke, Petru number one, or Petru number > two (obviously the latter is moot if that second Petru isn't > considered blocking). Petru #1. > 3.) That first bits moot because the Illusionary Petru gets removed > from the game before he could play a card that says "play after > combat, if any", isn't it? Sorry... Right. > 4.) Is an IotK vampire from a succesful blocking vampire considered > blocking? No. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > In article <f987c6cd.03032...@posting.google.com>, > vermillian <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>2.) Jason is acting. He's blocked by Anneke. Same thing as above >>happens. Who burns blood? Anneke, Petru number one, or Petru number >>two (obviously the latter is moot if that second Petru isn't >>considered blocking). > > Petru does; Anneke ceased being the blocking vampire before there was > a combat to burn a blood after. > > Which brings up the question, 'What about Donal O'Connor?' I think in > that case both Anneke and Petru burn a blood. But I'm not sure. LSJ? Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E82F3B9...@white-wolf.com>... > vermillian wrote: > > 1.) Anneke, with serpentis, is blocking. Petru plays Shimulo > > Deception, anneke plays extortion. > > Anneke cannot play Extortion. > Extortion can only be played after combat. > Also, after Shilmulo Deception, Anneke cannot play Extortion anyhow, > since she is not the blocker. Don't forget card text though. "Play after combat (if any)" is how its worded. No combat, so I'l play it anywho. Right before I'm considered no longer the blocker and right after Petru Shimulo's over. ~SV

[ quoted text not captured ] How did you arrive at the "no combat" assessment? That assessment is in error. Petru is about to enter combat with the acting minion. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E884054...@white-wolf.com>... > vermillian wrote: > > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3E82F3B9...@white-wolf.com>... > > > >>vermillian wrote: > >> > >>>1.) Anneke, with serpentis, is blocking. Petru plays Shimulo > >>>Deception, anneke plays extortion. > >> > >>Anneke cannot play Extortion. > >>Extortion can only be played after combat. > >>Also, after Shilmulo Deception, Anneke cannot play Extortion anyhow, > >>since she is not the blocker. > > > > > > Don't forget card text though. "Play after combat (if any)" is how its > > worded. No combat, so I'l play it anywho. Right before I'm considered > > no longer the blocker and right after Petru Shimulo's over. > > How did you arrive at the "no combat" assessment? > That assessment is in error. > Petru is about to enter combat with the acting minion. I assumed Extortion was referring to the blocking minion. Anneke was blocking, so she plays, after her combat (none), extortion. But the way you've interpretted it, which is of course the correct way, as you are the game designer, the potential combat (the if any part) that extortion is referring to is ANY combat that resulted from that block (if they are, indeed, the blocker). ~SV