[LSJ] immortal grapple and allies

i was wondering what happens when i play immortal grapple when i combat with an ally like succubus or nephandus? succubus does 1 aggravated damege, nephandus 1R. do their strikes qualify as hand stirkes or don't they have any strikes when grappled? thanks marcus -- __________________________________________________ lt. cmdr. pallando of g.a.b. black ice team G.A.B. was started to fight Bad Traders. Check out our website: http://www.gabtraders.com/ Join if you like.

pallando wrote: > > i was wondering what happens when i play immortal grapple when i combat with > an ally like succubus or nephandus? succubus does 1 aggravated damege, > nephandus 1R. do their strikes qualify as hand stirkes or don't they have > any strikes when grappled? Rulings: * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 24-FEB-1997] Rulebook: 6.4.5. Strike Effects Hand Strike. The default strike is a hand strike. When a minion strikes with a hand strike at close range, he does an amount of damage equal to his strength* to the opposing minion. Vampires have a default strength of one, while allies have a default strength of zero. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In article <39E700EE...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > pallando wrote: > > > > i was wondering what happens when i play immortal grapple when i combat with > > an ally like succubus or nephandus? succubus does 1 aggravated damege, > > nephandus 1R. do their strikes qualify as hand stirkes or don't they have > > any strikes when grappled? > > Rulings: > > * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based > on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged > damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 24-FEB-1997] Just to make sure that I'm getting this right, because the nephandus has an innate ranged strike, and because allies have a default strength of 0, the Nephandus will hand strike for 0 damage when grappled, but the Succubus will deal 1 aggravated since hers is innate, and non- ranged? Lee, Who's Laughing now? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

this is very nice. i am not sure though if it answers my question: do succubus and nephandus have a strike when grappled? i'd say no, but i'm still not sure. thanks pallando -- __________________________________________________ lt. cmdr. pallando of g.a.b. black ice team G.A.B. was started to fight Bad Traders. Check out our website: http://www.gabtraders.com/ Join if you like. LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: 39E700EE...@white-wolf.com... > pallando wrote: > > > > i was wondering what happens when i play immortal grapple when i combat with > > an ally like succubus or nephandus? succubus does 1 aggravated damege, > > nephandus 1R. do their strikes qualify as hand stirkes or don't they have > > any strikes when grappled? > > Rulings: > > * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage based > on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged > damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 24-FEB-1997] > [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, pallando wrote: > > * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage > based > > on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged > > damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 24-FEB-1997] > this is very nice. i am not sure though if it answers my question: do > succubus and nephandus have a strike when grappled? The Succubus has a hand strike of 1 aggravated damage, the Nephandus does one of zero. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D "And all the while I'm thinking things that I can never share with him. I'm a bundle of confusion, yet it has a strange appeal. Did it all begin with him and the way he makes me feel?"

Lee Fent wrote: > Just to make sure that I'm getting this right, because the nephandus > has an innate ranged strike, and because allies have a default strength > of 0, the Nephandus will hand strike for 0 damage when grappled, but > the Succubus will deal 1 aggravated since hers is innate, and non- > ranged? Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]

pallando wrote: > > this is very nice. i am not sure though if it answers my question: do > succubus and nephandus have a strike when grappled? > > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag: > > Rulings: > > > > * Hand Strike: any non-ranged, non-weapon strike that deals damage > based > > on the striking minion's hand damage, or any minion's non-ranged > > damage-dealing innate strike. [LSJ 24-FEB-1997] > > > > Rulebook: > > > > 6.4.5. Strike Effects > > > > Hand Strike. The default strike is a hand strike. When a minion strikes > > with a hand strike at close range, he does an amount of damage equal to > his > > strength* to the opposing minion. Vampires have a default strength of one, > > while allies have a default strength of zero. Immortal Grapple prevents either minion from using any strike that is not a hand strike. Whether a minion "has" a strike or not is not the question - a minion always has a hand strike, so always has a strike when grappled (unless they're prevented from using the hand strike - if they've maneuvered with a different strike or with a weapon, for example). The question is "what effect does a minion's hand strike have?" (or, alternatively, "is <some given strike> a hand strike?") E.g.: Nephandus can use his hand strike. Since his '1R' strike is ranged, it doesn't qualify as a hand strike, per the definition given. So Nephandus' hand strike deals damage equal to his strength, as stated above (which defaults to 0, as stated above) damage. He strikes for zero damage. E.g.: Succubus can use her hand strike. Her "1 agg" innate strike qualifies as a hand strike, per the definition given. So she strikes with a hand strike for 1 agg. [ quoted text not captured ]

All isn't lost for our plucky grappled Nephandus; he can play a Lucky Blow for one damage! And the crowd goes wild...