MNW - help with answers

right. as three of us and a rules book still can't figure out what the replies were to the other post, i'm going to write it out step by step so people can make comments as to which bits were right or wrong seating order was Ian, James and Me its was james's turn. he took his minion actions -included bleeding me with lucien end of his minion turn, i took a MN action to bleed ian james 2nd traditions with lucien but declined to block I bleed ian (much stealth) I asked jame sif he had ditched so i could have my uptap phase james said no and then tried to use the MN to bleed me with GTU with lucien I DI's his bleed card (as it was still his turn - i thought) He bleed me with another card, which I took he then ditched it was then my untap pahse. after a fast think we decided he he couldn't have used the MN so it al reverted. i think the following 1) he couldn't have stayed untapped with 2nd trad as he didn't attempt to bloke 2) he couldn't have used the madness network as it was still the end of his minion phase (text on card starts end of others minion phase) 3) If he could have used the MN, I could have used the DI as it still wasn't my turn, but james. someone please state which bits are right and wrong because its doing my head in right now. many thanks anam and yes, sneaky stealth bleed isn't nice but james played some aswell. I am working on a couple of other decks but at least i'm fighting right to the very end these days :)

> seating order was Ian, James and Me > > its was james's turn. he took his minion actions -included bleeding > me with lucien > > end of his minion turn, i took a MN action to bleed ian > > james 2nd traditions with lucien but declined to block would have to attept to block, but w/o an eagles sight this is for nada. (right?) > > I bleed ian (much stealth) > > I asked jame sif he had ditched so i could have my uptap phase > > james said no and then tried to use the MN to bleed me with GTU with > lucien > dies to NRA as far as i can tell, it's still his turn. At the end of your turn however, he could bleed. <snip> > i think the following > > 1) he couldn't have stayed untapped with 2nd trad as he didn't attempt > to bloke > If he attempted to block, and failed, but without a superior faceless night, he remains untaped. card says "untap". > 2) he couldn't have used the madness network as it was still the end > of his minion phase (text on card starts end of others minion phase) > He could have, but not after you did (this is from LSJ's timing thing on another post re: this subject.) > 3) If he could have used the MN, I could have used the DI as it still > wasn't my turn, but james. > Yes. > and yes, sneaky stealth bleed isn't nice but james played some aswell. > Nothing wrong with this, if they can't handle it, it's their pool. Cameron (who thinks these answers are right, most of them being taken from that other thread.) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

an...@netcomuk.co.uk (stubby) wrote in <3989af67...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk>: >seating order was Ian, James and Me >its was james's turn. he took his minion actions -included bleeding >me with lucien All legit so far. Note that Lucien has bled during James' turn. >end of his minion turn, i took a MN action to bleed ian >james 2nd traditions with lucien but declined to block First Wrong Bit. Second Tradition requires a block attempt. >I bleed ian (much stealth) >I asked james if he had ditched so i could have my uptap phase >james said no and then tried to use the MN to bleed me with GTU with >lucien Second Wrong Bit. You can't use MN during your own turn. Cardtext states 'after ANOTHER Methuselah has finished all his or her minion phase actions...' and James (the controller of MN) is not 'another' from himself, no matter how many personalities he claims. Plus, if he's declared himself to be finished with minion actions that minion phase, he cannot take a MN action (which still takes part in the minion phase), by the accepted definition of 'finished.' Third Wrong Bit: Lucien has already bled this turn, so if you're using NRA, that's not a legal action. >I DI's his bleed card (as it was still his turn - i thought) >He bleed me with another card, which I took > >he then ditched > >it was then my untap pahse. >1) he couldn't have stayed untapped with 2nd trad as he didn't attempt >to bloke Correct. >2) he couldn't have used the madness network as it was still the end >of his minion phase (text on card starts end of others minion phase) Correct. >3) If he could have used the MN, I could have used the DI as it still >wasn't my turn, but james. Correct. hope that helped, gomi -- Zankoku na tenshi na youni, Shounen yo shinwa ni nare

stubby wrote: > > right. as three of us and a rules book still can't figure out what the > replies were to the other post, i'm going to write it out step by step > so people can make comments as to which bits were right or wrong > > seating order was Ian, James and Me > > its was james's turn. he took his minion actions -included bleeding > me with lucien "Lucian", the Malk Justicar, I presume. > end of his minion turn, i took a MN action to bleed ian "minion phase" > james 2nd traditions with lucien but declined to block Illegal. 2nd Tradition requires a block attempt. That attempt will succeed unless the acting minion increases stealth beyond the P/J's increased intercept (or otherwises denies the block, as with Elder Impersonation). It would be illegal in this case since james cannot even block the action directed at ian. > I bleed ian (much stealth) > > I asked jame sif he had ditched so i could have my uptap phase Don't know what you're saying there. > james said no and then tried to use the MN to bleed me with GTU with > lucien Illegal. As the active Methuselah, he must have completed his minion phase actions before any MN actions can be taken. Also, if you were playing with the tournament NRA rules, Lucian cannot attempt a second bleed action this turn. > I DI's his bleed card (as it was still his turn - i thought) Fair enough, although moot. > He bleed me with another card, which I took > > he then ditched Don't know what that means. > it was then my untap pahse. > > after a fast think we decided he he couldn't have used the MN so it al > reverted. > > i think the following > > 1) he couldn't have stayed untapped with 2nd trad as he didn't attempt > to bloke He couldn't have played 2nd tradition at all, since he cannot attempt to block. > 2) he couldn't have used the madness network as it was still the end > of his minion phase (text on card starts end of others minion phase) Well, because card text says that the actions must occur after the (active) "Methuselah has finished all of his or her minion phase actions". > 3) If he could have used the MN, I could have used the DI as it still > wasn't my turn, but james. Right. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Well well well. What a shambles. "stubby" <an...@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message news:3989af67...@nntp.netcomuk.co.uk... > right. as three of us and a rules book still can't figure out what the Maybe it's 'because' you had a rule book. > its was james's turn. he took his minion actions -included bleeding > me with lucien > > end of his minion turn, i took a MN action to bleed ian > > james 2nd traditions with lucien but declined to block as far as i now understand it he could not decline to block ? > I bleed ian (much stealth) > > I asked jame sif he had ditched so i could have my uptap phase > > james said no and then tried to use the MN to bleed me with GTU with > lucien it was still his turn and he had already bled you once (NRA rule) > I DI's his bleed card (as it was still his turn - i thought) > > He bleed me with another card, which I took > > he then ditched > > it was then my untap pahse. > > > after a fast think we decided he he couldn't have used the MN so it al > reverted. > > > i think the following > > 1) he couldn't have stayed untapped with 2nd trad as he didn't attempt > to bloke Nice typo. I have always questioned James' ability to 'bloke'. Ho ho ho > 2) he couldn't have used the madness network as it was still the end > of his minion phase (text on card starts end of others minion phase) I thnk that's half right. He does stay untapped because the block attempt was not successful. I thought i was pretty solid on the Network rules until today. Now i'm unsure if player a can attempt Network actions on his own turn at all !! > 3) If he could have used the MN, I could have used the DI as it still > wasn't my turn, but james. > > someone please state which bits are right and wrong because its doing > my head in right now. > > many thanks > > anam > > and yes, sneaky stealth bleed isn't nice but james played some aswell. > > I am working on a couple of other decks but at least i'm fighting > right to the very end these days :) > I think you all deserve to have your heads done in for playing such dirt in the first place. Rob T --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.166 / Virus Database: 79 - Release Date: 20/06/00

what might help here whs that the madness network was mine!!! not james. does that help matters?? anam

>Maybe it's 'because' you had a rule book. proabaly but we had the darkness unveiled one . >as far as i now understand it he could not decline to block ? yeah that seems to be the story but doesn that now mean you can't wake and deflect with 2nd trad?? >it was still his turn and he had already bled you once (NRA rule) even thought the MN was mine? >Nice typo. >I have always questioned James' ability to 'bloke'. Ho ho ho ah - you should see him with a BBQ. >I thnk that's half right. He does stay untapped because the block attempt >was not successful. he didn't attempt to block in the first place. >I thought i was pretty solid on the Network rules until today. Now i'm >unsure if player a can attempt Network actions on his own turn at all !! well, thats what we feel like too :( >I think you all deserve to have your heads done in for playing such dirt in >the first place. neeneer neeneer :) anam

<snip> > > I asked jame sif he had ditched so i could have my uptap phase > > Don't know what you're saying there. What Anam means is that she asked James if he had discarded / had intention to discard, or if his turn is fully over - so she could begin her untap phase. > > he then ditched > > Don't know what that means. "Ditch" in this context means to discard. It's a British thing, don't cherknow! David Hammond UGPOW [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] No. The MN benefits all Malks equally. The only time control of the MN comes into play is when it is contested and when a minion attempts to burn it. [ quoted text not captured ]