post your deck (my deck)

Hi everyone. In hopes of inspiring others to do the same, I'm posting my current favorite deck. It's four-card, but hey so what. It's basically a bruise-bleed deck, with light intercept. "Our main weapons are fear and surprise.." vampires: roreca quaid jing wei dr. john casey x 2 sarah cobbler (she's so cool!) ignatius merill molitor lydia van cuelen thomas thorne astrid thomas justine - elder of dallas cassandra-magus prime ulugh beg - the watcher (he's so boss!) 13 vampires, average ~ 5.5 library: 80 cards masters: auspex dominate x 2 thaumaturgy x 3 blood doll x 2 minion tap x 2 academic hunting ground mob connections chantry x 2 krcg news radio sudden reversal others: govern the unaligned x 4 bonding x 4 conditioning x 4 threats palatial estate mr. winthrop jackie therman wake with evening's freshness x 4 deflection x 4 telepathic counter telepathic misdirection eagle's sight the spirit's touch x 4 blood rage x 4 blood fury x 4 theft of vitae x 4 walk of flame x 2 zip gun x 4 dragon breath rounds x 4 (tacky but effective) fake out x 2 movement of the mind x 4 taste of vitae thoughts betrayed x 4 (even tackier, but even more effective) Feel free to comment on it. I know it's not perfect, but I like it. Josh -- inet: ev...@cleveland.freenet.edu |My other account or jt...@cornell.edu |is a Porsche.

Joshua T. Duffin (ev...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote: : Hi everyone. In hopes of inspiring others to do the same, I'm posting : my current favorite deck. It's four-card, but hey so what. It's : basically a bruise-bleed deck, with light intercept. : Feel free to comment on it. I know it's not perfect, but I like it. I like. I've been playing with a Tremere combat/intercept deck for about a year now, and I like it. The only problem I see with yours is the reliance on bleed, with no stealth. Sure, you can pull off a few nice sized bleeds once in a while, but most of them will just get blocked. -- __________________________________________________________ / \ | Conflicts with right and wrong are a sickness of the mind | |___________________________________________________________| | | | I have no tactics. | | I make existance and the void my tactics. | | I have no talent. | | I make a quick mind my talent. | | I have no castle. | | I make the immutable spirit my castle. | | I have no purpose. | | I make wisdom my purpose. | | I have no sword. | | From the state that is above and beyond, | | From thought I make my sword. | _|_________________________________________________________|_ |_____________________________________________________________|

I am fairly certain that Josh's plan is to get blocked. With that many Dom bleed cards, you can either let the Tremere come and bleed you for 5 or something, or block him and get into combat with a Tremere packing Thoughts Betrayed, so you can't play any cards during combat and he burns you at his leisure: Josh:"I don't manuver" Me:"Uh. I do nothing, as I can't play any cards." Josh:"Strike:Theft of Vitae for 2." Me:"I, uh, punch for 1." Josh:"Press" Me:"Thats very nice." Josh:"Cauldron of blood for 4" Me:"Ouch. I punch for, uh, 1 again." Josh:"Press, again" Me:"Most Unfortunate." Josh"Strike:Walk of Flame for 2. Hey look. You have 0 blood..." Me:"Eeek. I punch you for one and neatly crumble into a pile of ash." Josh's Tremere just loss a net of 3 blood (TB costs 2 but he stole 2) and I lost a vamp who started combat with 6 blood, who died in a very ignominious fashion, I might add. Granted, this won't happen all that often, but once a game is enough to insure that Josh's main weapon is Fear. Who want's to block that? -Peter D Bakija

curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) wrote: >In article <4cpqj0$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pd...@aol.com (PDB6) writes: [combat commentary omitted] >>Josh's Tremere just loss a net of 3 blood (TB costs 2 but he stole 2) and >>I lost a vamp who started combat with 6 blood, who died in a very >>ignominious fashion, I might add. >> >>Granted, this won't happen all that often, but once a game is enough to >>insure that Josh's main weapon is Fear. Who want's to block that? > >Nobody, obviously. > >However, I never make a deck that hasn't some significant combat defence. >(dodges, maneuvers, guns, Fortitude, Combat Ends - it varies with the >deck, but I always have something). This isn't to say I don't get pounded >sometimes, but I find it lethal to be just a plaything of any Methuseleh >with a combat deck. > >A deck with significant combat defense can block Josh's deck when the >cards are right. When they're not, you'd best let him through, of course, >but at least it's your decision. Peace Curt, The problem is the /broken/ Thoughts Betrayed that Josh plays right after you block. Then all your non-permanent combat cards go for naught. TB needs errata badly (all your powers will be lost 8^). Nil carborundum illigitimi, James R. McClure Jr. The OS/2 Apostle <insert disclaimer here>

In article <4cpqj0$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pd...@aol.com (PDB6) writes: >I am fairly certain that Josh's plan is to get blocked. With that many >Dom bleed cards, you can either let the Tremere come and bleed you for 5 >or something, or block him and get into combat with a Tremere packing >Thoughts Betrayed, so you can't play any cards during combat and he burns >you at his leisure: > >Josh:"I don't manuver" >Me:"Uh. I do nothing, as I can't play any cards." >Josh:"Strike:Theft of Vitae for 2." >Me:"I, uh, punch for 1." >Josh:"Press" >Me:"Thats very nice." >Josh:"Cauldron of blood for 4" >Me:"Ouch. I punch for, uh, 1 again." >Josh:"Press, again" >Me:"Most Unfortunate." >Josh"Strike:Walk of Flame for 2. Hey look. You have 0 blood..." >Me:"Eeek. I punch you for one and neatly crumble into a pile of ash." > [ quoted text not captured ]

In a previous article, jmcc...@e-mail.kdp-baptist.louisville.edu (James R. McClure Jr.) says: >curt...@aol.com (CurtAdams) wrote: >>In article <4cpqj0$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pd...@aol.com (PDB6) writes: >[combat commentary omitted] >>>Josh's Tremere just loss a net of 3 blood (TB costs 2 but he stole 2) and >>>I lost a vamp who started combat with 6 blood, who died in a very >>>ignominious fashion, I might add. >>> >>>Granted, this won't happen all that often, but once a game is enough to >>>insure that Josh's main weapon is Fear. Who want's to block that? >> >>Nobody, obviously. >> >>However, I never make a deck that hasn't some significant combat defence. >>(dodges, maneuvers, guns, Fortitude, Combat Ends - it varies with the >>deck, but I always have something). This isn't to say I don't get pounded >>sometimes, but I find it lethal to be just a plaything of any Methuseleh >>with a combat deck. >> >>A deck with significant combat defense can block Josh's deck when the >>cards are right. When they're not, you'd best let him through, of course, >>but at least it's your decision. > >Peace Curt, > >The problem is the /broken/ Thoughts Betrayed that Josh plays right after >you block. Then all your non-permanent combat cards go for naught. TB >needs errata badly (all your powers will be lost 8^). > Hi again, Yes, I'm well aware that thoughts betrayed is entirely out of control as written. That's why it's scary. I don't know what could be done to fix it, though, and have it remain useful. Curt - You're absolutely right that most decks should have at least some sort of combat defense, and I realize that people won't be afraid of fighting my deck all the time. But some of the time is often enough for me to do well, if not actually win. (And it has won occasionally.) Of course, the thoughts betrayed is a substantial part of serious scariness. And tremere with thoughts betrayed can be much scarier than this - bursts of sunlight with amaranths (just need a flak jacket or merrill, and you can burn vamps left and right - best to start with the ones with votes of course) are pretty terrifying. Anyway, thanks for comments etc. Later, [ quoted text not captured ]

On 8 Jan 1996, James R. McClure Jr. wrote: > Peace Curt, > > The problem is the /broken/ Thoughts Betrayed that Josh plays right after > you block. Then all your non-permanent combat cards go for naught. TB > needs errata badly (all your powers will be lost 8^). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Your life force is running out..." "You need food, badly..." Off-subject: Is that a Gauntlet reference? :) "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu Spoutingly yours 8^) # $ GAT/CS/O/WS R+++* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ t X++&-- 5->? e+*>++++ PS+&-+ @ # PE&++&- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ N++(+) K+>++++ w---$>? M++$ r(+) y*+? 3.1# @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$

On 8 Jan 1996, CurtAdams wrote: > In article <4cpqj0$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, pd...@aol.com (PDB6) writes: [The Slaughter deleted] > >Josh's Tremere just loss a net of 3 blood (TB costs 2 but he stole 2) and > >I lost a vamp who started combat with 6 blood, who died in a very > >ignominious fashion, I might add. > > > >Granted, this won't happen all that often, but once a game is enough to > >insure that Josh's main weapon is Fear. Who want's to block that? > > Nobody, obviously. > > However, I never make a deck that hasn't some significant combat defence. > (dodges, maneuvers, guns, Fortitude, Combat Ends - it varies with the > deck, but I always have something). This isn't to say I don't get pounded > sometimes, but I find it lethal to be just a plaything of any Methuseleh > with a combat deck. > > A deck with significant combat defense can block Josh's deck when the > cards are right. When they're not, you'd best let him through, of course, > but at least it's your decision. But he doesn't really have that decision. The cards in his hand are as good as nothing. He just has to sit back and take it all. Unless he goes to town on permanents he is going to be a victim to a thoughts betrayed, as is anyone else. It should not be necessary to have decks move towards more permanents because of people playing more thoughts betrayed. Raising the cost on the card really will not be an issue, but perhaps changing it so that the victim must pay 1 blood or 2 for every combat card played? I'll have to try it and see... [ quoted text not captured ]

FirstName LastName <FirstName...@u.cc.utah.edu> wrote: >The way I see it, thaumaturgy is a pathetic combat discipline without > Thoughts Betrayed and has very little use outside of combat and can't > even destroy equipment. Furthermore, it is next to useless unless you > have superior Thaumaturgy, and even then it is pathetic. Basically, > the Tremeres are wallflowers used to decorate an otherwise Malkavian > bleed deck (I know, I know, you are supposed to tell newbies that THA > is a nasty combat discipline so you can get them to use Tremeres and > trounce them, and the same goes for the Nosferatu, too). I used to feel that way until I built a thaumaturgy/fortitude deck, which exploits Cardano. Pretty scary when he's an Archon, especially after a Rutor's Hand or two... Nosferatu are a part of a couple good voting decks, and potence+ protean is the definition of pain. They can (since Dark Soverigns) make a good bleed deck, and superior animalism + superior potence is an awful fate (first they throw gates, then cars...). TJH

Neil Bernstein (nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu) wrote: : No, I think Thoughts Betrayed actually benefits Malkavians and Ventrues : more. Tremere do just fine without it. And I don't think it's unbalanced, : despite the loud whining that goes on in this group about it. A card like : Wallpaper Werewolves (uh, excuse me, "Werewolf Pack") annoys me much more. I think that you are right that the Tremere don't _need_ Thoughts Betrayed to do well in combat. I think you are wrong that it benefits Malkavians and Ventrues more... the fact that Tremere can be VERY scary in combat without it means that they are INCREDIBLY scary without the ability to dodge, strike: comabt ends, etc. -James

On 10 Jan 1996, FirstName LastName wrote: > The way I see it, thaumaturgy is a pathetic combat discipline without > Thoughts Betrayed and has very little use outside of combat and can't > even destroy equipment. Furthermore, it is next to useless unless you > have superior Thaumaturgy, and even then it is pathetic. Basically, > the Tremeres are wallflowers used to decorate an otherwise Malkavian > bleed deck (I know, I know, you are supposed to tell newbies that THA > is a nasty combat discipline so you can get them to use Tremeres and > trounce them, and the same goes for the Nosferatu, too). What? Tremere are excellent in combat. A friend of mine plays them and even under 4CL they do strongly in _combat_. Without them, throw in some extra generic presses to continue and some Thefts or Dodges to avoid first round disaster, and come second round the damage is well worth the wait. Tremere decks are the bane of Fortitude deck, as so many of their strikes just can't be prevented (Theft of Vitae, Blood Rage, Blood Fury, Drain Essence) Nosferatu are excellent stealthed-Rushers. > Look, man, I didn't see anybody complain back when a celerity-based > vampire can just Blur and Vampiric Speed/Sideslip and basically just > rip right through a Tremere or Nosferatu without them being able to > do jack in return. So as far as Thoughts Betrayeds are concerned, I > consider them just a matter of evening the score: Thoughts Betrayed/ > Dead-end Alley, Blur/Sideslip, each has its advantages, TB/DeA is more > expensive, but Blur/Sideslip is less nasty. > Yes, Dodges with second strike are nasty to tremere, but a good tremere deck has ways around this. > So, as they say...Peace - through superior number of Thoughts Betrayed. > Besides, Tremere is supposed to mean fear. *cackle politely* Even if Tremere are lacking, increasing their power with an out-of-control card helps nothing. It merely requires other o-o-c cards to be made to stop it until the game dies. [ quoted text not captured ]

The way I see it, thaumaturgy is a pathetic combat discipline without Thoughts Betrayed and has very little use outside of combat and can't even destroy equipment. Furthermore, it is next to useless unless you have superior Thaumaturgy, and even then it is pathetic. Basically, the Tremeres are wallflowers used to decorate an otherwise Malkavian bleed deck (I know, I know, you are supposed to tell newbies that THA is a nasty combat discipline so you can get them to use Tremeres and trounce them, and the same goes for the Nosferatu, too). Look, man, I didn't see anybody complain back when a celerity-based vampire can just Blur and Vampiric Speed/Sideslip and basically just rip right through a Tremere or Nosferatu without them being able to do jack in return. So as far as Thoughts Betrayeds are concerned, I consider them just a matter of evening the score: Thoughts Betrayed/ Dead-end Alley, Blur/Sideslip, each has its advantages, TB/DeA is more expensive, but Blur/Sideslip is less nasty. So, as they say...Peace - through superior number of Thoughts Betrayed. Besides, Tremere is supposed to mean fear. *cackle politely* --Iv

> The way I see it, thaumaturgy is a pathetic combat discipline without > Thoughts Betrayed and has very little use outside of combat and can't > even destroy equipment. Furthermore, it is next to useless unless you > have superior Thaumaturgy, and even then it is pathetic. Basically, > the Tremeres are wallflowers used to decorate an otherwise Malkavian > bleed deck (I know, I know, you are supposed to tell newbies that THA > is a nasty combat discipline so you can get them to use Tremeres and > trounce them, and the same goes for the Nosferatu, too). >************** Thoughts betrayed is a DOMINATE card. (Unless of course we have another case of Wizard only giving (Errata out on the net. Is anybody else ticked off at that?) And they do just fine except against Celerity. [ quoted text not captured ]

Yeah, the Nosferatu may not be all that useful in and of themselves, but they score very highly on the cool chart, and no matter how much Celerity you are throwing around, it does very little good against a Immortal Grapple and a 7 point hand strike... -Peter "The Nosferatu are my Friend" Bakija

FirstName LastName (FirstName...@u.cc.utah.edu) wrote: : The way I see it, thaumaturgy is a pathetic combat discipline without : Thoughts Betrayed and has very little use outside of combat and can't : even destroy equipment. Hmm... my "Plunder" deck (based around Minion Taps, Blood Dolls, and Theft of Vitae) does very nicely in combat, against almost any other combat design. While it may not actually fight as well as a celerity/gun or protean/aggravated damage deck, it compensates by getting me lots of blood really fast so if my vampires get beaten up there'll be plenty more where they came from. As for not being able to _destroy_ equipment with thaumaturgy, what does it matter so long as you make the opposing minion unable to use it? (Cf. Blood Rage and Blood Fury.) : do jack in return. So as far as Thoughts Betrayeds are concerned, I : consider them just a matter of evening the score: Thoughts Betrayed/ : Dead-end Alley, Blur/Sideslip, each has its advantages, TB/DeA is more : expensive, but Blur/Sideslip is less nasty. No, I think Thoughts Betrayed actually benefits Malkavians and Ventrues more. Tremere do just fine without it. And I don't think it's unbalanced, despite the loud whining that goes on in this group about it. A card like Wallpaper Werewolves (uh, excuse me, "Werewolf Pack") annoys me much more. - Neil -- nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu, lentus in umbra | nudus ara, sere nudus... in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro

James Puzzo (jam...@gw.digibd.com) wrote: : Neil Bernstein (nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu) wrote: : : No, I think Thoughts Betrayed actually benefits Malkavians and Ventrues : : more. Tremere do just fine without it. And I don't think it's unbalanced, : : despite the loud whining that goes on in this group about it. A card like : : Wallpaper Werewolves (uh, excuse me, "Werewolf Pack") annoys me much more. : I think that you are right that the Tremere don't _need_ Thoughts Betrayed : to do well in combat. I think you are wrong that it benefits Malkavians : and Ventrues more... the fact that Tremere can be VERY scary in combat : without it means that they are INCREDIBLY scary without the ability to : dodge, strike: comabt ends, etc. I'm talking about relative improvement of their fighting ability, though. Tremere were always an excellent combat clan: you could usually guarantee torpor using them without TB. So printing TB didn't make that much of a difference for them. Malkavians and Ventrues are lousy fighters, however; thus TB immensely improved their fighting ability. Now I look forward to getting Gilbert Duane with a .44 into combat, playing TB and a couple of Traps... [ quoted text not captured ]

The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> wrote: >On 8 Jan 1996, James R. McClure Jr. wrote: >> The problem is the /broken/ Thoughts Betrayed that Josh plays right after >> you block. Then all your non-permanent combat cards go for naught. TB >> needs errata badly (all your powers will be lost 8^). > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >"Your life force is running out..." >"You need food, badly..." > >Off-subject: Is that a Gauntlet reference? :) I found a Gauntlet cart for the Sega Genesis which seems to exactly duplicate the arcade game. Wooo! If I would have had that 10 years ago, it would have saved me many pounds worth of quarters! :) ObJyhad - why are there no ghosts in Jyhad? I'm not familar with the World of Darkness, but surely there are ghosts where there are Vampires, Werewolves and magic? -- Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu http://www.astro.indiana.edu/home/ahabig/ Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.

Neil Bernstein (nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu) wrote: : James Puzzo (jam...@gw.digibd.com) wrote: : : I think that you are right that the Tremere don't _need_ Thoughts Betrayed : : to do well in combat. I think you are wrong that it benefits Malkavians : : and Ventrues more... the fact that Tremere can be VERY scary in combat : : without it means that they are INCREDIBLY scary without the ability to : : dodge, strike: comabt ends, etc. : I'm talking about relative improvement of their fighting ability, though. : Tremere were always an excellent combat clan: you could usually guarantee : torpor using them without TB. So printing TB didn't make that much of a : difference for them. Malkavians and Ventrues are lousy fighters, : however; thus TB immensely improved their fighting ability. Now I look : forward to getting Gilbert Duane with a .44 into combat, playing TB and a : couple of Traps... Point well taken. In fact, the card makes anyone with superior dominate rather scary in combat. I actually do not dispute the fact that it gives Malks and Ventrue a better opportunity to use a variety of deck ideas by allowing them an alternative method of combat survival. My problem with the card is in making what you admit was already an "excellent combat clan" into an even better combat clan. What is scarier: a bruise and bleed Tremere deck which you can dodge, or a bruise and bleed Tremere deck which has the very real possibility of forcing you to stick around until it can use second round "burners"? (Particularly with the new aggravated damage rules...) -James

Look, before DS, there is simply no way a Tremere can possibly hold her own against a well-constructed Celerity combat deck without resorting to off-clan disciplines (Celerity or Fortitude). With just the basic Jyhad mix, Celerity or Fortitude is pretty much necessary against any serious combat deck (meaning Toreador/Brujah CEL or Gangrel FOR/pro). There is just no way a Tremere deck can get around Acrobatics or Blur+ Vampiric Speed/Sideslip without resorting to cel/for itself. All the blood-stealing and second-round power-hits won't win a fight for you, or even help you survive when you simply can't hit! The same goes for any Nosferatu with her 7-point strikes. Can't hit and can't prevent damage? Your opponent has Skin of Steel? Well, then it's "watch the other guy play" time. As far as destroying equipment goes, that is a significant weakness. If you can't destroy equipment, people usually aren't as afraid to fight you. Let's face it, people will let Gangrels hunt just so that they don't get their Sport Bike Canine Horded. But, but, Thoughts Betrayed fixed all that. Now people don't WANT to intercept my DOM Tremeres hunting all of a sudden. Hehehehe. And you know what the best thing is? Those political decks can't just pack up on Majesties and those damn Gangrel hacker decks can't just pack up on Earth Melds and Form of Mists. A Jyhad-based non-cel/for Tremere can only hold its own against Malks, and Nosferatus, even the Ventrues are better in combat (can stand up to Toreadors, Brujahs, and Gangrels with FOR and Majesties than the hapless Tremeres). A Jyhad-based cel/for Tremere is risky and WAY too card intensive (basically, you can rip up two to three combat vampires and then you're out of cards). --Iv

On 11 Jan 1996, Alec Habig wrote: > The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> wrote: [Fun Gauntlet stuff snipped] > ObJyhad - why are there no ghosts in Jyhad? I'm not familar with the World of > Darkness, but surely there are ghosts where there are Vampires, Werewolves and magic? There are ghosts ("Wraiths"), but not in a tangible enough sense to actually interact with. As for how Jyhad looks now, this makes sense. For clans that interact with Wraiths in the World of Darkness, so far we have only the Giovanni and the Tremere. The Giovanni by way of their Necromancy, and the Tremere by certain Thaumaturgical paths. Spirit Sense is IMHO a light entry into Wraiths, with the Auspex-gifted Kindred able to contact the Spirits (Wraiths) for information. This would be done by aura reading or the like. As for the DS cards, Spirit Summoning is supposed to call a Wraith in the World of Darkness, and I'm not sure if I like WotC's interpretation. On another aside: Does anyone know how much involvement Richard Garfield maintains in Jyhad (or for that matter Magic) anymore? Thanks. [ quoted text not captured ]

Hi Neil, On 11 Jan 1996, Neil Bernstein wrote: > James Puzzo (jam...@gw.digibd.com) wrote: > > : I think that you are right that the Tremere don't _need_ Thoughts Betrayed > : to do well in combat. I think you are wrong that it benefits Malkavians > : and Ventrues more... the fact that Tremere can be VERY scary in combat > : without it means that they are INCREDIBLY scary without the ability to > : dodge, strike: comabt ends, etc. I will have to disagree here. I try a Tremere intercept combat deck about once every three or four weeks with our weekly group, and it routinely gets plowed by Gangrel and Brujah combat decks. In neither case do the Tremere make it to the second round of combat, so their cool second round stuff doesn't do them any good (not that it would anyway, the Brujah will dodge and the gangrel will use fortitude damage prevention as any card which could have prevented this you could play in the first round.) The Tremere can be scary when they get their hands on a vamp from a non-combat deck, but you could say the same for any combat deck vamps. > > I'm talking about relative improvement of their fighting ability, though. > Tremere were always an excellent combat clan: you could usually guarantee > torpor using them without TB. So printing TB didn't make that much of a > difference for them. Malkavians and Ventrues are lousy fighters, > however; thus TB immensely improved their fighting ability. Now I look > forward to getting Gilbert Duane with a .44 into combat, playing TB and a > couple of Traps... Well, lets do the math. Assume Gilbert with .44 and one TB in your hand. Before first round you play TB, costs Gilbert 2 blood. First round Gilbert manuvers with gun and shoots victim, costs victim 2 blood. Assuming trap is in play, Gilbert can now do two damage for every one he recieves, so if he sticks around three rounds he does six (what a torreador with the same gun would have done in the first round), and he looses four.... That's not a very good ratio for giving up so much of your deck space for .44, traps, and TB. I would rather just throw in a few dodges and bleed hell out of my prey.... Algustas *****They (the British) are like their own beer: froth on top, dregs at the bottom, and the middle excellent.***** Voltaire

Joshua T. Duffin (ev...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote: : Yes, I'm well aware that thoughts betrayed is entirely out of control as : written. That's why it's scary. I don't know what could be done to fix : it, though, and have it remain useful. I would just like to add my voice to this issue. Thoughts Betrayed is definitely a broken card. For an example consider a Gangrel deck, or a Brujah deck with a few Dominate skills and Thoughts Betrayed added. You'd have to be an idiot or a Caitiff to block Stanislava if there's any chance the player is holding Thoughts Betrayed. It completely shuts down all defenses you might have. "Oh, my Thoughts are Betrayed? And do I go to torpor or am I burned outright?" Thoughts Betrayed seems to be designed to allow Malkavians and Ventrue to survive combat occasionally. To this end, I think it should be rewritten: "Neither minion may play cards until the combat is over." Thus it still remains useful, but is not the broken horror that it is right now. -- Michael Schmahl (fx...@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu) Math / CS / Thr / Phil http://camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu/~fxmgs Have your unsolicited commercial email proofread for only $100!

The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> wrote: >On another aside: Does anyone know how much involvement Richard Garfield >maintains in Jyhad (or for that matter Magic) anymore? Thanks. Once Richard considers himself done with a game, he makes his role in it pretty passive. While he'll get into the occasional discussion about the game, he declines much active input into Magic, VTES,... or even Netrunner. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

The Corrupter (sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu) wrote: : There are ghosts ("Wraiths"), but not in a tangible enough sense to actually : interact with. As for how Jyhad looks now, this makes sense. For clans : that interact with Wraiths in the World of Darkness, so far we have only : the Giovanni and the Tremere. The Giovanni by way of their Necromancy, : and the Tremere by certain Thaumaturgical paths. Spirit Sense is IMHO a : light entry into Wraiths, with the Auspex-gifted Kindred able to contact : the Spirits (Wraiths) for information. This would be done by aura : reading or the like. As for the DS cards, Spirit Summoning is supposed : to call a Wraith in the World of Darkness, and I'm not sure if I like : WotC's interpretation. And Possession. In Vampire: Masq, it calls a Wraith to take possession of a recently dead body. I think the Jyhad (okay, V:tES) interpretation is pretty good. [ quoted text not captured ]

Hey, where's the Giovanni Rush Decks? I'm working on one and I'll post it when I get it playtested a little. Oughta work--all it really takes is Potence, and some of those Necromancy cards are neato. ------------------------------- --------------------------------------- Scoundrel "Omni mutantur, nihil interit." a.k.a. Chuck Kallenbach II Everything changes, scou...@inlink.com but nothing is truly lost. http://www.inlink.com/~scoundrl --"Exiles," Neil Gaiman, Sandman #74 =============================== =======================================

In article <4dhn2p$b...@news1.inlink.com>, scou...@inlink.com (Scoundrel (Chuck Kallenbach II)) writes: >Hey, where's the Giovanni Rush Decks? I'm working on one and I'll post >it when I get it playtested a little. > >Oughta work--all it really takes is Potence, and some of those >Necromancy cards are neato. I think bruise and bleed works a little better for them. But it takes much more than just potence... otherwise you'll need a relative to yank you out of torpor. Against any deck that utilizes more than one discipline it'll get ripped to shreds (and possibly in an aggravated way to make things worse). Though with plenty of thoughts betrayed there isn't much to worry about now is there? ~Biomechanoid

biom...@aol.com (Biomech8) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] >~Biomechanoid Yep, bruise and bleed is probably the way to go. I put together a bruiser Giovanni deck, but without Celerity, it's hard to really do those max-out damage combats (you know--Bianca with Undead Strength and 2 additional strikes?). I just like looking at Francesca, actually. [ quoted text not captured ]