Disgust with WotC

In article <4a93in$d...@news.uni-c.dk>, Hans J. Pedersen <dkdf...@po.ia.dk> wrote: >cjbu...@unix.amherst.edu (Colin Bunnell) wrote: >>Well, Wizards of the Coast has made its last dollar from me >>(who has sunk a significant amount of money into this >>game and had planned on continuing to do so.) With the >>announcement that they have axed all RPG products, >>including Ars Magica, and some 30 employees--2 weeks before Christmas, no >>less--Wizards of the Coast has confirmed that they hold >>none of the tenets they once held as a corporation, and >>that collectible card games are a more significant threat >>to RPGs than I was previously willing to believe. My >>first love is to RPGs (the route by which I was attracted >>to Jyhad and Magic), and to see a company completely >>divest itself from RPGs (including one of the best >>I've ever come across--Ars Magica. Eagerly did I await >>the 4th edition. Pity.) to focus all efforts on Magic: >>the Cash Cow is disappointing. Unless this all turns out >>to be someone's idea of a really bad joke, you've lost >>another customer. > >Damn - looks like WOT$ has truly become Magic corporation. >I guess the wizards can fire whomever they want, but sacking Ars Magica! >This is the greatest fantasy game ever released!, this is simply a crime >against the gaming world. I guess this demonstrates (as you said), just >what great a threat trading card games are to the old fashioned rpg >community. >I guess I'll reconsider buying DS - sounds like a cheesy and unbalancing >addition anyway :( > Simon > Jyhad player because of V:TM > Still Ars Magica player despite this crime > > Unless you people have seen different information than I have, you are blowing these events entirely out of proportion for at least two reasons. 1: WotC is not DISCONTINUING their role-playing games. It is true that they will no longer be the ones creating and manufacturing the games, but the games will still be around, even if you have to buy them from a new company. 2: WotC may be letting go of 30 employees, but, given the number of employees that they've hired over the past two years, it seems to be an insignificant number. I know that doesn't help the employees, but if you boycotted a product every time the company laid off workers, you would never buy anything. I personally think that this is the right move for WotC. Since Magic started, they have never been able to keep up with demand for their COLLECTIBLE-TRADING CARD GAME BASED products. By focusing the company solely on these products, they stand a much better chance of meeting demands and issuing higher quality products. I don't know about you, but I look forward to a more efficient company at the head of Jyhad/V:tes production.

In message <4a9ku8$m...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, MalKAViaN said: > Unless you people have seen different information than I have, you > are blowing these events entirely out of proportion for at least two reasons. > 1: WotC is not DISCONTINUING their role-playing games. It is true that they > will no longer be the ones creating and manufacturing the games, but the > games will still be around, even if you have to buy them from a new company. I'll believe it when I see it. Also, it doesn't really matter--this was a company that spent a great deal of time claiming it was interested in continuing to give something to the RPG community. Meanwhile, the company was planning on axing these lines to focus on the bottom line. One doesn't need to specialize like that to create a good CCG--look at SJG/INWO. I haven't seen GURPS axed yet... I also wonder how likely some of these roleplaying games are to get snapped up--given the CCG craze, buying up an old RPG is just not as profitable as it once was. And by the time CCGs die (or fade to a more reasonable level) it will likely be too late for Ars Magica and Everway. > 2: WotC may be letting go of 30 employees, but, given the number of employees > that they've hired over the past two years, it seems to be an insignificant > number. I know that doesn't help the employees, but if you boycotted a > product every time the company laid off workers, you would never buy > anything. I hold RPG/gaming companies to a different standard than I do, for example, Pepsi or Sony or whatever. This is a cottage industry, one T$R in the industry is enough (and no, I don't buy from them, either.) More to the point, it is beyond sleazy to do this 2 weeks before Christmas. I don't care what your motives are--if you care a whit about your employees, you don't pull shit like that. It's disgusting. And with no warning-- the *day* *before* the announcement, WotC was going along like nothing had changed--no slowdown, no warning that this might have been in the works. Just *boom*--30 people out their jobs. > I personally think that this is the right move for WotC. It's an abysmally stupid move. Magic will die. It's in the process of doing so. Most of the people who play it are kids, who will find the next fad, stop buying, etc. Sales at the local level are already slipping (by anecdotal evidence--my local gaming store manager, and the posted anecdotes of other folks in the rec.games.frp hierarchy), and that will soon impact new orders, if it hasn't already. By putting all of their energy into what is, in the short term, the most profitable product at the expense of diversifying into different fields makes one that much more susceptible to the failure of that one field. > Since > Magic started, they have never been able to keep up with demand for their > COLLECTIBLE-TRADING CARD GAME BASED products. By focusing the company solely > on these products, they stand a much better chance of meeting demands and > issuing higher quality products. I don't know about you, but I look forward > to a more efficient company at the head of Jyhad/V:tes production. Ha. V:TES is next. (unless it's significantly more popular than I realize, which is always a possibility) -c -- _____ Colin Bunnell "Running over the same old ground, \ __/_ cjbu...@unix.amherst.edu What have we found? \\ / http://www.amherst.edu/~cjbunnel/ The same old fears. \/ Wish you were here." -PF

In article <4a9ku8$m...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, naz...@wam.umd.edu (MalKAViaN) wrote: [Others stating how they felt ~ WotC discontinuing Ars Magica & other products] > Unless you people have seen different information than I have, you > are blowing these events entirely out of proportion for at least two reasons. > 1: WotC is not DISCONTINUING their role-playing games. It is true that they > will no longer be the ones creating and manufacturing the games, but the > games will still be around, even if you have to buy them from a new company. Read below. > 2: WotC may be letting go of 30 employees, but, given the number of employees > that they've hired over the past two years, it seems to be an insignificant > number. I know that doesn't help the employees, but if you boycotted a > product every time the company laid off workers, you would never buy > anything. Sources I have seen are not official, but from WotC former-employees. They place the body count between 50-60. ALL non-Deckmaster product employees were removed. > > I personally think that this is the right move for WotC. Since > Magic started, they have never been able to keep up with demand for their > COLLECTIBLE-TRADING CARD GAME BASED products. By focusing the company solely > on these products, they stand a much better chance of meeting demands and > issuing higher quality products. I don't know about you, but I look forward > to a more efficient company at the head of Jyhad/V:tes production. Another view. :From owner-ARS...@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Wed Dec 6 20:38:01 1995 :To: Recipients of ARS-MAGICA-L digests <ARS-MA...@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM> : :Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 11:17:38 -0800 : From: Wade Racine <garg...@WIZARDS.COM> : Subject: READ THIS NOW!!! : : It is my very sincere regret to inform all of you that the Ars Magica : line has been cancelled by Wizards of the Coast. All production of all : products is ceasing immediately, including Ars Magica 4th edition. The : future of ArM as a line is unknown, as it may just be completely killed : or spun off to another company. That is the decision of the upper level : management here at WotC. : : Along with ArM goes my job. I am unsure if I will find another : opportunity here at the company, or if my future lies elsewhere. My last : day at my current position is Friday, December 8th, 1995. : : If you have questions or comments about this decision, please do not send : them to me. I'm going to be very busy getting things wrapped up. : Instead, you may send them to ques...@wizards.com, our Customer Service : department, or to our President, Peter Adkison, at ma...@wizards.com. : : Thank you all for your time, effort, and support. I'm very sorry we : couldn't get ArM4 out...perhaps someone else will. : : --Wade Racine : --Ars Magica Line Developer (until 12/8/95) "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu Spoutingly yours 8^) # $ GAT/CS/O/WS R+++* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ t X++&-- 5->? e+*>++++ PS+&-+ @ # PE&++&- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ N++(+) K+>++++ w---$>? M++$ r(+) y*+? 3.1# @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$

Well, Wizards of the Coast has made its last dollar from me (who has sunk a significant amount of money into this game and had planned on continuing to do so.) With the announcement that they have axed all RPG products, including Ars Magica, and some 30 employees--2 weeks before Christmas, no less--Wizards of the Coast has confirmed that they hold none of the tenets they once held as a corporation, and that collectible card games are a more significant threat to RPGs than I was previously willing to believe. My first love is to RPGs (the route by which I was attracted to Jyhad and Magic), and to see a company completely divest itself from RPGs (including one of the best I've ever come across--Ars Magica. Eagerly did I await the 4th edition. Pity.) to focus all efforts on Magic: the Cash Cow is disappointing. Unless this all turns out to be someone's idea of a really bad joke, you've lost another customer. -c [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <4a87m2$a...@amhux3.amherst.edu> cjbu...@unix.amherst.edu (Colin Bunnell) writes: >From: cjbu...@unix.amherst.edu (Colin Bunnell) >Subject: Disgust with WotC >Date: 8 Dec 1995 02:25:06 GMT >Well, Wizards of the Coast has made its last dollar from me >(who has sunk a significant amount of money into this >game and had planned on continuing to do so.) With the >announcement that they have axed all RPG products, >including Ars Magica, and some 30 employees--2 weeks before Christmas, no >less--Wizards of the Coast has confirmed that they hold >none of the tenets they once held as a corporation, and >that collectible card games are a more significant threat >to RPGs than I was previously willing to believe. My >first love is to RPGs (the route by which I was attracted >to Jyhad and Magic), and to see a company completely >divest itself from RPGs (including one of the best >I've ever come across--Ars Magica. Eagerly did I await >the 4th edition. Pity.) to focus all efforts on Magic: >the Cash Cow is disappointing. Unless this all turns out >to be someone's idea of a really bad joke, you've lost >another customer. >-c Can I have your cards? :) Please don't kill me. >-- >_____ Colin Bunnell "Running over the same old ground, >\ __/_ cjbu...@unix.amherst.edu What have we found? > \\ / http://www.amherst.edu/~cjbunnel/ The same old fears. > \/ Wish you were here." -PF -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Andrews S2...@nmu.edu

The Corrupter (sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu) wrote: : In article <4a9ku8$m...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, naz...@wam.umd.edu : (MalKAViaN) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] : Read below. [ quoted text not captured ] : Another view. [ quoted text not captured ] I had been a Magic buyer for a long time and I quit because of the reprinting of the valuale cards in the Chronicles series. I started Jyhad not even knowing it was a WotC game and I really liked it. I have played Ars Magica too and I must admit that it is (was) pretty good. I totally agree that WotC has pissed off a lot of people. Everyone I know calls them Wot$ or Wizards of the Greed. (I being included in this) However, I think it is a better idea to try to stick with card games and let real companies make role playing games. I don't think the employee layoff helped their popularity any either. This company tried to concentrate to much on profits and production that they misprinted a lot of cards and made some really bad rules. I don't like their standards or ways, but they have made some good products. You have to admit that Magic and other games from WotC have really gained popularity. Just my two cents.

In message <4aipp7$5...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, Thomas R Wylie said: > We intend to contiue to give something to the *gaming* community. This > includes accepting that we are not prepare to do enough justice to our > RPGs to warrant hanging onto them, when we could hand them off to someone > more interested in developing them - just as White Wolf handed off > Ars Magica to us, for example. I can accept that, except for the suddenness of the decision, and the idiotic way in which Ars Magica was handled. Disclaimer: I am a newcomer to the game--I just recently bought the 3rd edition, and discovered a really terrific game contained therein. Now, having spent the time since then reading about how 4th edition would be coming out, and how snazzy it was going to be, well, I was looking forward to that. Now, you all have spent the money to acquire AM, you have spent the money to develop AM4, you were almost all ready to go to press, and.... is it any wonder your president said "we've never turned a profit on an RPG"? > SJG has been doing RPGs for several years, and then jumped into/flirted > with the TCG market. They are definitely much better equipped to develop > and RPG than we are. Again, I accept that you all can't handle an RPG. Fine. The manner in which the decision was made sucks, though, and it demonstrates why TCGs are a threat to RPGs--these RPGs may well find good homes. But they (barring being acquired by SJG, WW, or T$R) will not be acquired by a company whose name carries as much clout, and therefore the games will suffer. I would be surprised (very pleasantly) if AM4 ever sees light of day, quite frankly. And that saddens me. > >More to the point, it is beyond sleazy > >to do this 2 weeks before Christmas... > An accident of the timing of the budget review process. You were required, then, to axe all of these people *NOW*? > Examining > expenses is what led to this; if we reviewed the budgets during the > summer, all of this would have happened during the summer. By doing > this *now*, we give people that much of a head start in finding new > employment, either here or elsewhere. *guffaw* uh-huh. The concept of a transition period ever occur to anyone? The possibility that WotC might tell people "Within the next 6 months we're divesting from RPGs. Prepare accordingly." Put out AM4 (since you've spent so much money on its development, might as well give it a little time to make a little money) Or don't, but continue to entertain offers during that time, find the 'good home' you're looking for, and work to see to it that the games don't suffer, since you want to "give back to the gaming community." Not that it matters now, it's a bit late. But WotC has consistently shown itself to be less concerned as a corporation with the opinions of its customers (read: VtES Card backs) than it should be, and that has cost the corp. another customer. I sort of look forward to the howls here on r.g.t-c.j when you all axe VtES. -c [ quoted text not captured ]

MalKAViaN <naz...@wam.umd.edu> wrote: > Unless you people have seen different information than I have, you >are blowing these events entirely out of proportion for at least two reasons. >1: WotC is not DISCONTINUING their role-playing games. It is true that they >will no longer be the ones creating and manufacturing the games, but the >games will still be around, even if you have to buy them from a new company. Essentially correct. All discontinued products will continue to be available; we just won't be producing any new RPGS, for example, for a while. We are also looking for new homes for all of our RPG lines. It's not that we don't like RPGS, or don't want RPGs to continue, or that we don't like any of our RPGs... it's just that we feel that our energies are better spent elsewhere, and that they'd benefit more from a new home. While the company was originall formed to produce RPGs, it's clear that our focus has drifted away from that. >2: WotC may be letting go of 30 employees, but, given the number of employees >that they've hired over the past two years, it seems to be an insignificant >number. I know that doesn't help the employees, but if you boycotted a >product every time the company laid off workers, you would never buy >anything. I wouldn't call roughly 10% of our workforce insignficant :) but there are a couple of things that people are probably overlooking here. First, between severance pay and profit sharing decks, all of these employees have until at least February before they need to start worrying about finances. Second, in most or all cases we didn't lay off the people; we laid off the positions. I imagine at least a few of them will ultimately be rehired into other positions. > I personally think that this is the right move for WotC. Since >Magic started, they have never been able to keep up with demand for their >COLLECTIBLE-TRADING CARD GAME BASED products. By focusing the company solely >on these products, they stand a much better chance of meeting demands and >issuing higher quality products. I don't know about you, but I look forward >to a more efficient company at the head of Jyhad/V:tes production. Yes, the moves are definitely to let us focus better on trading card games. Note that it is to focus on *all* of our trading card games, including VTES, Netrunner, and any future games; the change was not just so we could focus more on Magic. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Questions: 1)Will Ars Magica go back to Wite Wolf? 2)Will SLA INDUSTRIES (AKA: the best RPG, ever) default back to Nightfall? I hope so, sure they cant spell or get there rules straight, but the storyline... then again I'm not sure that spelling/rules would have gotten better under WotC... we've seen what theyeve done to there card games... ~mage bob

Colin Bunnell <cjbu...@unix.amherst.edu> wrote: >this was a company that spent a great deal of time claiming it was >interested in continuing to give something to the RPG community. >Meanwhile, the company was planning on axing these lines to focus >on the bottom line. One doesn't need to specialize like that >to create a good CCG--look at SJG/INWO. I haven't seen GURPS axed yet... We intend to contiue to give something to the *gaming* community. This includes accepting that we are not prepare to do enough justice to our RPGs to warrant hanging onto them, when we could hand them off to someone more interested in developing them - just as White Wolf handed off Ars Magica to us, for example. SJG has been doing RPGs for several years, and then jumped into/flirted with the TCG market. They are definitely much better equipped to develop and RPG than we are. >More to the point, it is beyond sleazy >to do this 2 weeks before Christmas... An accident of the timing of the budget review process. Examining expenses is what led to this; if we reviewed the budgets during the summer, all of this would have happened during the summer. By doing this *now*, we give people that much of a head start in finding new employment, either here or elsewhere. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <4aaqvu$t...@hustle.rahul.net> Bradley Kellogg <br...@rahul.net> writes: >I had been a Magic buyer for a long time and I quit because of the >reprinting of the valuale cards in the Chronicles series. I started >Jyhad not even knowing it was a WotC game and I really liked it. I have >played Ars Magica too and I must admit that it is (was) pretty good. I >totally agree that WotC has pissed off a lot of people. Everyone I know >calls them Wot$ or Wizards of the Greed. (I being included in this) >However, I think it is a better idea to try to stick with card games and >let real companies make role playing games. I don't think the employee >layoff helped their popularity any either. This company tried to >concentrate to much on profits and production that they misprinted a lot >of cards and made some really bad rules. I don't like their standards or >ways, but they have made some good products. You have to admit that >Magic and other games from WotC have really gained popularity. Just my >two cents. Does anyone here play Robo Rally? I ask this because it is the only WotC game I've played besides M:tG and Jyhad/V:TES. In my opinion, Robo Rally is manufactured with the highest quality I've ever seen in a board game. The pieces look great and mine at least had no defects. The cards and boards look exceptional. Despite having some potentially confusing rules, I found the rulebook was not only attractive but clearly written, and I learned the rules very quickly and easily by reading the book. I have never played their RPG's, but from what everybody is saying they were made with the same exceptional level of quality. When it comes to their CCG's, everyone complains about the quality, though. "This card spoils the game." "There are too many misprints." "They take too long to put out expansions." "They are greedy and just kick out expansions as fast as they can, too fast to make a quality product." However, their other games show us that they do quality work. I think that the difference is that CCG's are a whole different bucket of fish. I think there is more to producing a CCG than many of us realize. It is inherently difficult to produce cards that can push or even break the rules without breaking the game. I think there is also a hell of a lot more playtesting needed for a CCG than for any other game. Every new card developed has to be considered in combination with every other card ever made, to see if it will break the game. The thing we forget, though, is that CCG's have to be pushed rapidly through the design process. It may or may not be true, but the opinion of most CCG players is that a CCG gets stale if it doesn't get an expansion soon enough. If you don't believe me, just read all the posts complaining about how long it took for DS to come out. The point is, WotC's other games have shown that they produce quality products. I think slamming them because of some misprints in their CCG's is hasty judgement, and ignores the special circumstances involving the CCG market. It is my opinion that WotC has done remarkably well with their CCG's. We all know that Magic has its problems, but then again, it was the FIRST game of its type, and for all its problems, it is still the favorite CCG to date. And I don't think anyone here will disagree that Jyhad is the closest game to being completely balanced without need of card limits. What it all boils down to is I enjoy the games they make, and everyone here must at least enjoy Jyhad/V:TES too, or why would they bother to read this group? Perhaps we can have less "Die WotC, die!" and "Kill Tom!" here, and get on to enjoying the game, and maybe positively discussing what will best make this game as balanced as possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Andrews S2...@nmu.edu

Shane Travis (tra...@duke.usask.ca) wrote: : Dave Andrews (s2...@nmu.edu) wrote: : : Does anyone here play Robo Rally? : Just a quick follow-up to Dave's post; I purchased a copy of Robo-Rally : when it first came out, and have not been disappointed. I agree with : almost everything he says about the quality and entertainment value. I love it too, particularly since it begs for house rules. Like when we deal out all the equipment before the game begins. Or take the most complex board and play "Arena" Roborally -- don't worry about flags, just try to kill all your oppoenents. Waiting for the expansion eagerly. - Neil -- nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu, lentus in umbra | nudus ara, sere nudus... in omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro

Dave Andrews (s2...@nmu.edu) wrote: : Does anyone here play Robo Rally? Just a quick follow-up to Dave's post; I purchased a copy of Robo-Rally when it first came out, and have not been disappointed. I agree with almost everything he says about the quality and entertainment value. (One beef - I wish they could have made the cards of plastic or sell replacement decks only; when you have to shuffle the entire deck between every turn, the cards take a lot of wear and tear.) Also, the game is incredibly adaptable, as the board is made up of 1-8 indepedent board-tiles. Enough off-topic stuff. It's a great game, and worth the price-tag. (For more discussion of the game, look in rec.games.board.) Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time, tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant

I am disgusted at WOTC and thought this thread was going to be geared towards my thoughts being the section it is in. I don't know if the quality of the new Vampire cards has been allready discussed, but if not, I believe it should be brought to attention. I am a store owner and a player of Jyhad/V:TES and I as well as my customers were very excited about the release of the updated cards. I promoted it and had my employees promote the game. We bought quite a bit of it, and sold out right away. That evening we played some games of it utilizing some of the new cards. Immediatly we started noticing the wear on the new cards. A few weeks later my Vampire cards look like some of my Moxes. This is crazy. The thing that really angers me about WOTC is that they raised the prices on their products and then they lower the quality? I don't really know if I would complain about them laying off employees as that is a normal thing, but lower the quality of the product should not be tolerated. If anyone knows of some way we can seek some sort of retribution from the company in exchange for our Vampire cards let me know. Is WOTC planning on printing the cards in better quality? What is the plan? Reven...@AOL.com

Agree completely with Dave Andrews. If a card seems weenie and useless to you, dont use it in your play deck. If you think a card is so powerful that it imbalances the game, immediately build a deck around it, and make your opponents follow your lead to keep up. The game will always be balanced, because any strategy is available to everyone. I am a Jyhad/VTES player who LOVES dark sovereigns, and cannot WAIT until the next expansion so I can put together a serpentis deck !! Available now for flaming for being a polyanna. But I do have lots of fun. Chick...@msn.com

In article <4anbdb$h...@amhux3.amherst.edu>, nwbe...@unix.amherst.edu (Neil Bernstein) wrote: > Shane Travis (tra...@duke.usask.ca) wrote: [positive Robo Rally comments} > I love it too, particularly since it begs for house rules. Like when > we deal out all the equipment before the game begins. Or take the most > complex board and play "Arena" Roborally -- don't worry about flags, just > try to kill all your oppoenents. Waiting for the expansion eagerly. Sorry, Neil. Robo Rally is discontinued by the High Quality WotC, just like all other non-Deckmaster products. C'est la vie. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <4aipp7$5...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote: [explanation of what will happen to their RPGs; response to INWO comparison...] > > SJG has been doing RPGs for several years, and then jumped into/flirted > with the TCG market. They are definitely much better equipped to develop > and RPG than we are. Wouldn't you consider Talislanta to be "several years"? Anyone remember how long ago WotC put out and developed Talislanta? [ quoted text not captured ]

The Corrupter wrote: > Wouldn't you consider Talislanta to be "several years"? Anyone remember > how long ago WotC put out and developed Talislanta? Talislanta was developed by Bard Games. WotC bought it before (a year?) they released Magic. As far as I can recall the only WotC developed RPG products were the Primal Order and it's follow-ons - no real RPG systems at all. Rich

In article <Pine.NXT.3.91.951217173348.691B-100000@pentode>, The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> wrote: > Sorry, Neil. Robo Rally is discontinued by the High Quality WotC, just > like all other non-Deckmaster products. C'est la vie. Sorry, Adrian, but we will continue to sell RoboRally and Armed and Dangerous from our backlist, and will reprint them as needed to meet demand. -- Charles Keith-Stanley were...@wizards.com Cyberspace Liaison lia...@wizards.com Wizards of the Coast http://www.wizards.com

The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> wrote: >[explanation of what will happen to their RPGs; response to INWO >comparison...] >> SJG has been doing RPGs for several years, and then jumped into/flirted >> with the TCG market. They are definitely much better equipped to develop >> and RPG than we are. >Wouldn't you consider Talislanta to be "several years"? Anyone remember >how long ago WotC put out and developed Talislanta? And Talislanta lost money, just like every other RPG we've ever done. Also, GURPS came out a few years before WotC took over Talislanta, which can't have been more than six years ago, since WotC hasn't been around that long. [ quoted text not captured ]