ravanos or giovanni deck

On 24 May 1996, Jim Vamp wrote: > > -- Can anyone suggest some ideas for these clan decks? Everyone I've > tried get the snot kicked out of them (especially the Giovanni). > Thanks. I have seen people play straight Giovanni and lose horribly. I have seen people play Ravnos straight... and lose horribly. Ravnos don't seem to fit well with anything, and the Giovanni are only semi effective when combined with other clans, such as Brujah, Nosferatu, and Ventrue.

Since when is getting the snot beat out of you a bad thing? ;) My Don Giovanni deck is alot of fun to play. It works on the idea of trying to get Stefano made Prince of Rome and Regina made a Primogen. Also, I try to make them the dealmakers and Kingmakers of the game. I had to throw in Obfuscate so that I can have the total torpor schtick. Carlotta already has some anyway. With Grave Robbing, Sacrificial lamb, Rotschreck, Possession, and Galconda, I end up with total control over everyone's Torpor regions. It makes the Brujah/Gangrel/Tremere type Aggro decks think twice about taking down their opponent. I also have Succubus clubs, the soul gem of Etrius combo, bunches of boons and bunches of goons (read allies). I've gained 20 blood and 2 extra powerful vampires using the Soul Gem/Carlotta/Possession combo. I've dumped Rotschrek on Lucretia, grave robbed her, and attacked her previous owner back. Next turn I showed her the way to Galconda just to annoy her old master. People complain that I don't attack my prey enough so I use the Succubus club to borrow their vampire (with their permission) and attack with that vamp...and then happily return it on the next turn. What really annoys my predator though is when I let him bleed me all he wants and just go right on having a good time. Giovanni can fight alongside the rest of them. Just choose your fights...and make lots of friends.

-- Can anyone suggest some ideas for these clan decks? Everyone I've tried get the snot kicked out of them (especially the Giovanni). Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - jim.vamp@paonline "When my energies first surged through me, I Jim Hamilton learned to move as lightning." Harrisburg, PA USA - The Book of Nod, Jyhad/VTES

On 24 May 1996, Jim Vamp wrote: I should have some on my web page pretty soon [ quoted text not captured ] Everett Littles Cal Poly SLO Business MIS http://www.calpoly.edu/~elittles/park.html Clan Ravnos Home Page

Try... Giovanni--Potence, Necromancy, Dominate Use the Giovanni, and Anvil, Astrid, and Sabine Lafitte (I think...that other Tremere with Potence) I suppose you could throw in Ulugh Beg if you wanted, but I wouldn't. Use Dominate to Bleed & Bounce, Use Necromancy as you will, and pound any licks you get into combat with. Throw in a couple of vials of Garou's Blood for extra fun. Christian

: -- Can anyone suggest some ideas for these clan decks? Everyone I've : tried get the snot kicked out of them (especially the Giovanni). : Thanks. Ravnos doesn't play well by itself. Although others have said this clan doesn't mesh well with other clans I found that there are some nasty decks to be made. The most obvious if a little at odds with the role playing game is a Gangrel/Ravnos Deck. They both have animalism and fortitude and while the protean of Gangrel's is good for killing, the chimestry of the Ravnos is useful for reducing any stealth that ever comes up. My personal favorite deck that seems to win alot and annoy even more is a Ravnos/Toreador Deck. The disciplines behind this are celerity, chimestry, and auspex. Several of the low level Ravnos have these discplines and Francois Villon has Chimestry (not much overlap but why not!) THe point of the deck is to intercept. I've played against a Malk deck and completely destroyed him when Francois Villon got into an intercept/stealth fight with Ozmo coming in for a 6 point bleed at least. It went someting like this: Ozmo: Govern the Unaligned (already had the pulse of the Canaille) Francois Villon: Blocks Ozmo: Cloak of the gathering Francois Villon: Eagle's Sight Ozmo: Lost in the Crowd (had superior Obfuscate at the time) Francois: Enhanced Senses Ozmo: Faceless Night Frnacois: Spirit's Touch Ozmo: Spying Mission Francois: Ignis Fatuus Leandro (Only other vamp on his side): Mask of a thousand Faces Francois: Veiled Sight Oops! Were you trying to sneak by me? Start from scratch and get back to +4 stealth. Needless to say Leandro and Francois got into combat. A nice trap, Apparition and a couple of Blurs, and Leandro was seeing a nice song all the way to torpor. Well just wanted to add my two cents. Hope this gives you some ideas. Jeff

Everett Littles wrote: > > On 24 May 1996, Jim Vamp wrote: > > I should have some on my web page pretty soon > > > > > -- Can anyone suggest some ideas for these clan decks? Everyone I've > > tried get the snot kicked out of them (especially the Giovanni). > > Thanks. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > - > > jim.vamp@paonline "When my energies first surged through me, I > > Jim Hamilton learned to move as lightning." > > Harrisburg, PA USA - The Book of Nod, Jyhad/VTES > > > > > > > > Everett Littles Cal Poly SLO Business MIS > http://www.calpoly.edu/~elittles/park.html > Clan Ravnos Home Page Best combination for Ravnos is simple: Trick of Danya and Brainwash. It really only works against your prey, but he is practically defenseless. Make a deck of roughly 40 cards and include 5 brainwash and 8 Tricks. The results are staggering to the prey. Combat wise they are a supreme deck. The ability to prevent 2 damage each round of combat with Apparition makes them the strongest defensively against every other clan. This coupled with a Trap can make even the 5 damaging Brujah gain a little respect for the Ravnos. As for the Giovanni, good luck. I've developed an ally deck that relies on the Gio's keeping them in play. This with a few Precogniznat Mobility's makes a Gio/Malkav or Gio/Gangrel deck dangerous (Muddled for Malks and Renegade Garou/Gypsies for Gangrel). Unfortunately, it is really hard to get to work.

On Thu, 23 May 1996, Woody Carey wrote: > On 24 May 1996, Jim Vamp wrote: > > -- Can anyone suggest some ideas for these clan decks? Everyone I've > > tried get the snot kicked out of them (especially the Giovanni). > > Thanks. > I have seen people play straight Giovanni and lose horribly. I have seen > people play Ravnos straight... and lose horribly. Ravnos don't seem to > fit well with anything, and the Giovanni are only semi effective when > combined with other clans, such as Brujah, Nosferatu, and Ventrue. In our circle, a Ravnos combat deck is cleaning house all the time. Trap, Drawing Out the Beast, and Apparation (sometimes multiple times) make this thing go haywire. So far, the only escape seems to have been through Majesty (and other combat avoidance) and surprisingly Tremere, as they are able to either not do damage or press out. Giovanni have been more of a problem, though someone made a deck that was mostly Giovanni based on the Euro-Brujah. It played with Dominate, Potence, and Celerity and was an amazing bruise-bleed machine. My own personal feel is that Giovanni are strongest when they manipulate their back for the ashheap side. My Giovanni deck (still needing tweaking) does this alot by indiscriminant diablerie and quick combats. I don't typically care if my people die, possession and Carlotta bring back the minions and their stakes. Anyone else made a Ravnos/Giovanni deck? "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu Spoutingly yours 8^) # $ GAT/CS/O/WS R+++* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ t X++&-- 5->? e+*>++++ PS+&-+ @ # PE&++&- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ N++(+) K+>++++ w---$>? M++$ r(+) z*+? 3.1# @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$

Go with Ravnos and Giovanni. The Giovanni aren't too useful alone.

In article <4onvjb$h...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, BloodCrave <blood...@aol.com> wrote: >Go with Ravnos and Giovanni. The Giovanni aren't too useful alone. I must respectfully disagree; the Giovanni make a fine bruise/bleed deck, and with Ancient Heart's extreme (and somewhat concerning) reinforcement of Potence, that is likely to continue. To wit: The Death of My Conscience (po, 3 blood: you may burn up to 4 cards from your hand; for each card burned in this fashion, this vampire gets +1 hand damage for the remainder of combat. Superior: as above, but this vampire gets +2 hand damage for each card. -- paraphrase) is bad, but the costs even out. But Increased Strength (po : For the remainder of combat, this vampire gets +1 damage on all strikes that require Potence. Superior: As above, but this vampire gets +2 damage) has no cost, and stacks (unlike Fists of Death, which stacks but at least has a cost). I could be flailing here, but Increased Strength looks like a balance problem, unless there's a restriction on it i'm missing -- no cost, easy to flush from your hand -- not as bad as Wake, but similar. gomi someone tell me i'm overreacting -- 'spend a day and a half dead and the lettuce runs amok.' -babs woods

On 2 Jun 1996, Paul Echeverri wrote: > To wit: The Death of My Conscience (po, 3 blood: you may burn up to 4 cards > from your hand; for each card burned in this fashion, this vampire gets > +1 hand damage for the remainder of combat. Superior: as above, but this > vampire gets +2 hand damage for each card. -- paraphrase) is bad, but the > costs even out. Seems like a difficult card to use. I agree, the costs are likely to even out. Perhaps quite useful with Necromancy to recover the cards (whispers of the dead) or Carlotta. > But Increased Strength (po : For the remainder of combat, > this vampire gets +1 damage on all strikes that require Potence. Superior: > As above, but this vampire gets +2 damage) has no cost, and stacks (unlike > Fists of Death, which stacks but at least has a cost). I don't see it as being to easy to use. Even though it stacks, you have to have alot of potence strikes in a deck for it too pay off. This gives it to Giovanni, Nosferatu, and Brujah. For all of the clans, this means that more cards must be aloted to Potence strike cards. Potence is a wholly unflexible combat-only discipline. It probably should remain as such. As one becomes more One Trick Pony-ish, a deck loses overall viability. I always liken it to a pin and a rock, both can kill. The pin is narrow and doesn't always balance, but if balanced and pushed down, can pierce deep. The rock rarely pierces but covers more territory. As a deck strives to use more Increased Strengths, they have to proportionally put in more Potence strikes to get use of them. Otherwise they waste deck space. > I could be flailing here, but Increased Strength looks like a balance problem, > unless there's a restriction on it i'm missing -- no cost, easy to flush from > your hand -- not as bad as Wake, but similar. Not too similar to wake. Wake gives you resources you didn't have (the effect of an untapped vampire), while Increased Strength increases your abilities in combat. IS is disciplined and must be used in a risky environment, while Wake can be burnt risk free. I predict you won't see a problem. The more IS someone uses, the less versatile their deck (even in a combat sense). > someone tell me i'm overreacting Maybe, you are. Could be I'm wrong though... ;) [ quoted text not captured ]

On spec, I think the reason for increased effectiveness of potence is due to the similarily increased powers of fortitude. I see fortitude decks regularily brush off 5 and 6 points of damage in a combat. Increased potence does not bother the dodge defenders, pulverises those that have no regular defenses, and forces the fortitude decks to work a little harder. As well, a more potent potence might let the Brujah get away with being something other than a gun deck. *shrug*

go...@shellx.best.com (Paul Echeverri) writes: > But Increased Strength (po : For the remainder of combat, >this vampire gets +1 damage on all strikes that require Potence. Superior: >As above, but this vampire gets +2 damage) has no cost, and stacks (unlike >Fists of Death, which stacks but at least has a cost). >I could be flailing here, but Increased Strength looks like a balance problem, >unless there's a restriction on it i'm missing -- no cost, easy to flush from >your hand -- not as bad as Wake, but similar. It has a cost: 1+ hand slots in combat. It also isn't as useful as Fist of Death because is requires another potence card be used for any strike that would benefit from it. By burning all those combat cards you reduce your ability to react to things like maneuvers, and to prevent things like S:CE (Immortal Grapple), and to get additional strikes (if you also have ce) - since you also have to have potence hand strike card available. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Make it idiot proof and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | someone will make a better Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | idiot.