SPOILER - LotN Giovanni starter contents

Spoiler space... ... ... ... ... ... ... Lords of the Night Giovanni Preconstructed Deck Crypt (12) 2 x Nunzio Giovanni 3 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 nec pot 2 x Primo Giovanni 4 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 dom nec pot 2 x Margaret Milliner 5 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 dom for nec pot pre Margaret gets +1 bleed if Francis Milliner is ready. Cards that require Fortitude cost her an additional blood. 2 x Francis Milliner 6 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 pre vic NEC POT Francis gets +1 strength in combat with a Toreador or Toreador antitribu. 2 x Guillaume Giovanni 9 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 obt CEL DOM NEC POT While Guillaume is ready, you get +1 hand size for each location you control. Guillaume gets +1 stealth on recruit and employ actions. 2 x Lady Constancia 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 AUS DOM FOR NEC POT Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its replacement from the other cards in your ash heap. Library (77) 2 Taste of Vitae 1 Inspire Greatness 2 Concealed Weapon 2 Proxy Kissed 1 Siphon 3 Bang Nakh - Tiger's Claws 4 Shambling Hordes 2 Divine Sign 2 Immortal Grapple (new art) 4 Murmur of the False Will (*) 2 Vessel 4 Spectral Divination (new art) 3 Call of the Hungry Dead 2 The Path of Bone 4 Harass 3 Conditioning (new art) 1 Possession (new art) 2 Camera Phone (as per spoiler) 1 The Sargon Fragment 2 Slam (*) 3 Bundi (*) 2 Torn Signpost 1 Compel the Spirit (new art) 2 Dominate Kine 2 Jack of Both Sides 1 KRCG News Radio 1 Necromancy (new art) 3 Reckless Agitation 2 Eluding the Arms of Morpheus (as per spoiler) 1 Sudario Refraction 3 Brute Force (as per spoiler) 1 Chill of Oblivion 2 Whispers from the Dead 1 Forger's Hammer 1 Morgue Hunting Ground (new art) 1 Giant's Blood 1 Ex Nihilo 1 Warrant (*) 1 Graverobbing Murmur of the False Will (action mod) (dom) +1 bleed. You cannot play another action modifier to increase this bleed. (reaction) (DOM) Only usable when a younger vampire is bleeding you, after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another Methuselah other than the acting vampire's controller. That acting vampire is now bleeding that Methuselah. Slam Combat, potence, 1 blood (pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage (POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to close range. Bundi Equipment, 2 pool Melee weapon. Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage from each melee weapon strike made against him or her. Warrant Political Action, worth 1 vote. Choose a younger ready vampire. If this referendum succeeds, put this card on that vampire. Any ready vampire may enter combat with this vampire as a (D) action that costs 1 blood. Some good stuff there obviously, but the lack of Spiritual Intervention is a bit of a surprise. A staple card for some - dare I say the more successful - Giovanni deck archetypes now may well be out of print (short of forking over US$20 per for a 10th Ed pack) for literally years. Appolonius.

[ quoted text not captured ] > 4 Shambling Hordes > 2 Immortal Grapple (new art) > 1 The Sargon Fragment > 3 Bundi (*) > 2 Torn Signpost Yay! more IG! more TS! more Tastes! yay yay yay!

Appolonius <appol...@jyhad.com> wrote: > Bundi > Equipment, 2 pool > Melee weapon. > Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both > a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage > from each melee weapon strike made against him or her. LSJ, if this is truly the wording, then can you officially clarify whether this weapon is usable under Immortal Grapple? I assume "yes" because the Stutter Step threads have indicated that S-S's limitation is by its own card text. But it would be nice to have a "google link" to point someone to if they begin to argue, especially during release events. Better yet, has Immortal Grapple's text been updated to further clarify the situation? Thanks.

On 24 Wrz, 14:12, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] he said yes

>> Lords of the Night Giovanni Preconstructed Deck At last !! >> Crypt (12) >> >> 2 x Nunzio Giovanni >> 3 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 >> nec pot >> >> 2 x Primo Giovanni >> 4 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 >> dom nec pot Ok, nothing new here. >> 2 x Margaret Milliner >> 5 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 >> dom for nec pot pre >> Margaret gets +1 bleed if Francis Milliner is ready. Cards that require >> Fortitude cost her an additional blood. All inferiors, two out-of-clan... Ok. Given the extra cost, not sure if For is a good option for her except in urgency... "Daddy" special could be nice, but : >> 2 x Francis Milliner >> 6 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 >> pre vic NEC POT >> Francis gets +1 strength in combat with a Toreador or Toreador antitribu. WTF ? This guy doesn't even have inf Dom !! So he's definitively not gonna be worth given baby her +1 candy. If at least he had one vote he could be useful without Dom... Now, NEC / POT... Dunno, will have to see the new necrocards, but as of now... no. >> 2 x Guillaume Giovanni >> 9 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 >> obt CEL DOM NEC POT >> While Guillaume is ready, you get +1 hand size for each location you >> control. Guillaume gets +1 stealth on recruit and employ actions. Nice. Plenty of options. A little too big for most decks though. >> 2 x Lady Constancia >> 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 >> AUS DOM FOR NEC POT >> Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a >> discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its >> replacement from the other cards in your ash heap. Another fattie. Two votes, I don't like the AUS that much but FOR allows for Freak Drives, along with some other titled dominaters... Still, 10 is a lot, and it's not like Regina saw much light except for her recruit special. >> Library (77) >> >> 2 Taste of Vitae >> 4 Shambling Hordes >> 2 Immortal Grapple (new art) >> 1 The Sargon Fragment >> 3 Bundi (*) >> 2 Torn Signpost > > Yay! more IG! more TS! more Tastes! yay yay yay! Errr, sure, but... Where are the other cards ?!? -- "All Hail the Lords of the Night !" Orpheus

WTF??? Everyone get their path except FoS? ^( Hope I'm missing something.

[ quoted text not captured ] See, we FoS-lovers get the shaft, path-wise. We are not to complain, cause "it's common as dirt and readily available" as it was put by people in another thread. Those same people did not understand, that to some players reprints in the new layout are highly appreciated... But, well.

[ quoted text not captured ] Dude, did you see the love the Snakes got??!?!?!?!? Damn, talk about greedy.. :) Understand yor point, but they now have the most solid imbued toasting options, nasty voting, awesome specials, man the snakes are looking better all the time. I swear they've corrupted the DT....

"Orpheus" <orphe...@free.fr> writes: > >> Lords of the Night Giovanni Preconstructed Deck > > At last !! > >> 2 x Lady Constancia > >> 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 > >> AUS DOM FOR NEC POT > >> Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a > >> discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its > >> replacement from the other cards in your ash heap. > > Another fattie. Two votes, I don't like the AUS that much but FOR allows for > Freak Drives, along with some other titled dominaters... Still, 10 is a lot, > and it's not like Regina saw much light except for her recruit special. Did you happen to notice she has all the Harbinger in-clan disciplines at superior? And her ash heap digging cannot be blocked or DI:d. Her 10 capacity is a problem, yes. But I see potential for Giovanni/Harbinger unholy alliance decks with her... HG -- hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience, iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey

On 24 Wrz, 14:38, h...@iki.fi.remove.these.invalid (Janne Hägglund) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] she is HoS afterall (in RPG :P)

On 24 , 15:24, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dude, did you see the love the Snakes got??!?!?!?!? > > Damn, talk about greedy.. :) > > Understand yor point, but they now have the most solid imbued toasting > options, nasty voting, awesome specials, man the snakes are looking > better all the time. I swear they've corrupted the DT.... Yep, I saw it. But it was nearly my the only one chance to get it :(. Cause there is no reprints for Ancient Hearts or Final Nights. Even Lasombra didn't mention it in his inventory. And why do the other indie get the Path?

[ quoted text not captured ] Dude, stop worrying, mail me, ill organise you a few, as long as you in Europe aomewhere

On Sep 24, 3:29 pm, IC-Odd...@yandex.ru wrote: > And why do the other indie get the Path? Because Quietus is (in most cases) overcosted, and the other Paths were (for some weird reason) rares.

>> >> Lords of the Night Giovanni Preconstructed Deck >> >> At last !! > >> >> 2 x Lady Constancia >> >> 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 >> >> AUS DOM FOR NEC POT >> >> Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a >> >> discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its >> >> replacement from the other cards in your ash heap. >> >> Another fattie. Two votes, I don't like the AUS that much but FOR allows >> for >> Freak Drives, along with some other titled dominaters... Still, 10 is a >> lot, >> and it's not like Regina saw much light except for her recruit special. > > > Did you happen to notice she has all the Harbinger in-clan disciplines at > superior? And her ash heap digging cannot be blocked or DI:d. Her special is good. > Her 10 capacity is a problem, yes. That's just it. I could do with one less outside discipline and 8-Cap. > But I see potential for > Giovanni/Harbinger unholy alliance decks with her... Certainly. Too bad She can't play with Matthias... :-( Who knows, if my Planning card is adapted somehow... [ quoted text not captured ]

>> And why do the other indie get the Path? > > Because Quietus is (in most cases) overcosted, and the other Paths > were (for some weird reason) rares. Also, Chi costs your left hand, and Nec is expensive too (the Path is especially important for Shamblers). The best use I can see for the Path of Typhon is Typhonic Beast (logical, ain't it ?) and I must confess I'd have like some more too just for that purpose. But who says these spoilers are perfectly accurate ? [ quoted text not captured ]

> Murmur of the False Will > (action mod) (dom) +1 bleed. You cannot play another action modifier to > increase this bleed. > (reaction) (DOM) Only usable when a younger vampire is bleeding you, > after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another > Methuselah other than the acting vampire's controller. That acting > vampire is now bleeding that Methuselah. +1 bleed and bounce in the same card with no blood cost. Why do we keep giving DOM good cards? Isn't it good enough that they have these abilities on other cards, we now have to let them have flexibility by putting both effects on one card? > Slam > Combat, potence, 1 blood > (pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage > (POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to > close range. Definately worth playing if you fear the gun defense, but not just better than Pushing the Limits or Undead Strength either. A nice compromise card. > Bundi > Equipment, 2 pool > Melee weapon. > Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both > a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage > from each melee weapon strike made against him or her. I would think you can't use this under IG because it says it's a melee strike as well (much like S-S says it's also a dodge). I could be wrong though, I didn't look at the old rulings on S-S and IG. > Warrant > Political Action, worth 1 vote. > Choose a younger ready vampire. If this referendum succeeds, put this > card on that vampire. Any ready vampire may enter combat with this > vampire as a (D) action that costs 1 blood. Why did Giovanni get this and Assamites got Free States Rant? Grrr....

>> Murmur of the False Will >> (action mod) (dom) +1 bleed. You cannot play another action modifier to >> increase this bleed. >> (reaction) (DOM) Only usable when a younger vampire is bleeding you, >> after blocks are declined. Tap this reacting vampire. Choose another >> Methuselah other than the acting vampire's controller. That acting >> vampire is now bleeding that Methuselah. > > +1 bleed and bounce in the same card with no blood cost. Why do we > keep giving DOM good cards? Isn't it good enough that they have these > abilities on other cards, we now have to let them have flexibility by > putting both effects on one card? With reduced effects. I'll keep on playing Deflection + Conditionning in most decks. But variety is good. >> Slam >> Combat, potence, 1 blood >> (pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage >> (POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to >> close range. > > Definately worth playing if you fear the gun defense, Or any ranged combat, as I did when I first played Ignazio (before Earthshock, and Tremere or Ani gave me trouble...). > but not just > better than Pushing the Limits or Undead Strength either. A nice > compromise card. Yes. >> Bundi >> Equipment, 2 pool >> Melee weapon. >> Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both >> a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage >> from each melee weapon strike made against him or her. > > I would think you can't use this under IG because it says it's a melee > strike as well (much like S-S says it's also a dodge). I could be > wrong though, I didn't look at the old rulings on S-S and IG. It has been ruled playable under IG. >> Warrant >> Political Action, worth 1 vote. >> Choose a younger ready vampire. If this referendum succeeds, put this >> card on that vampire. Any ready vampire may enter combat with this >> vampire as a (D) action that costs 1 blood. > > Why did Giovanni get this and Assamites got Free States Rant? Grrr.... Err, I don't see any requirement here. Is it a Giovanni-only vote ? If so, given the trouble they have passing votes... [ quoted text not captured ]

> >> Bundi > >> Equipment, 2 pool > >> Melee weapon. > >> Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both > >> a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage > >> from each melee weapon strike made against him or her. > > > I would think you can't use this under IG because it says it's a melee > > strike as well (much like S-S says it's also a dodge). I could be > > wrong though, I didn't look at the old rulings on S-S and IG. > > It has been ruled playable under IG. I couldn't find the thread. I blame lack of caffiene, link? > >> Warrant > >> Political Action, worth 1 vote. > >> Choose a younger ready vampire. If this referendum succeeds, put this > >> card on that vampire. Any ready vampire may enter combat with this > >> vampire as a (D) action that costs 1 blood. > > > Why did Giovanni get this and Assamites got Free States Rant? Grrr.... > > Err, I don't see any requirement here. Is it a Giovanni-only vote ? If so, > given the trouble they have passing votes... I just meant in the starters. I boggled why Assamites got FSR in their starter when there was this gem of a new vote.

snip// > > >> Bundi > >> Equipment, 2 pool > >> Melee weapon. > >> Strike: make a hand strike for strength +1 damage. (This strike is both > >> a hand strike and a melee weapon strike). Bearer may prevent 1 damage > >> from each melee weapon strike made against him or her. > > > I would think you can't use this under IG because it says it's a melee > > strike as well (much like S-S says it's also a dodge). I could be > > wrong though, I didn't look at the old rulings on S-S and IG. > > It has been ruled playable under IG. > snip// "ruled playable," perhaps, but by wording, that is what makes sense. IG relevant text is: Strikes that are not hand strikes may not be used this round (by either combatant). since this is a hand strike, it is usable. conversely, though it is a hand strike, stutter-step has its own text prohibition that keeps it from being compatible with IG. john spore mage

preac...@gmx.at wrote in news:1190636530.212578.264560 @w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > On 24 Sep., 14:18, IC-Odd...@yandex.ru wrote: >> WTF??? >> Everyone get their path except FoS? ^( >> >> Hope I'm missing something. > > See, we FoS-lovers get the shaft, path-wise. We are not to complain, > cause "it's common as dirt and readily available" as it was put by > people in another thread. Not "people"... me. *shrug* Its my opinion about our COLLECTABLE card game, nothing more. BTW, I posted an email address, saying I was willing to mail out some spare Path of Typhon to a guy in Australia for cost of delivery (and I'd do the same for others). Guess how many people took me up on that offer? Thats right, none. > Those same people did not understand, that > to some players reprints in the new layout are highly appreciated... 'Appreciated' wasn't the previous verbiage... appreciated != necesary... and yet you remain correct, I don't agree with the need for all the old cards in new layout. I'd rather have more, better New cards in the new layout, instead. DaveZ AW

[ quoted text not captured ] Links: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/9d8f595f756783d0 http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/22832340c41a8396

[ quoted text not captured ] > Links:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/9d8f...http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2283...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Thank you LSJ !

In article <13ff7rg...@corp.supernews.com>, Appolonius <appol...@jyhad.com> wrote: > 2 Vessel Has anyone actually, ya know, seen this card yet? Like, in their hand? I'm completely unconvinced that it actually exists yet... Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html "Find hungry samurai." -The Old Man

On Sep 24, 5:21 pm, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > Has anyone actually, ya know, seen this card yet? Like, in their hand? > I'm completely unconvinced that it actually exists yet... You've met me in real life, right? Whatever my word is worth to you, you have it. This card exists. I have it. Jason

"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:pdb6-D24779.1...@news-server.stny.rr.com... > In article <13ff7rg...@corp.supernews.com>, > Appolonius <appol...@jyhad.com> wrote: >> 2 Vessel > > Has anyone actually, ya know, seen this card yet? Like, in their hand? > I'm completely unconvinced that it actually exists yet... Yes, there is a card named that. Yes, I've held it in my hand. I don't know what you think it is but it's a master that has the same function as Blood Doll except 1) it must be used in the untap phase instead of the master phase (a disadvantage, for the most part but occasionally an advantage) and 2) it allows the person playing the card to identify and remove a Blood Doll already on the table (clear advantageous). I recall it's worded like Blood Doll in that it's usable by the minion's controller but don't recall if it needs to be placed on a ready and/or controlled vampire. Fred

> Lords of the Night Giovanni Preconstructed Deck <snip crypt, except to note that there are only 2 vampires with basic presence, and none with superior presence.> > Library (77) > 1 Inspire Greatness This puzzles me. I see it could be used in THEORY, but one would think there'd be a better card to add (Empowering the Puppet King?). A typo, perhaps? Inspire Greatness Card Text: Only usable by a ready vampire other than the acting minion. [pot][pre] The acting ally or younger vampire gets +1 strength during this action. [POT][PRE] The acting ally or younger vampire gets +2 strength during this action.

In article <OhXJi.46316$L_7....@newsfe16.phx>, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > Yes, there is a card named that. Yes, I've held it in my hand. Ah, see, you are the first person to actually say this--up till this point, there was still a hope that it was misinformation. > I don't know what you think it is It was spoiled over a week ago. There was a great deal of hope that it was a made up card and not an actual one. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <1190670308....@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, Jadasc <jad...@gmail.com> wrote: > You've met me in real life, right? I think so. > Whatever my word is worth to you, you have it. This card exists. I > have it. Fair enough--up till this point, there was a lot of hypothesis that Vessel didn't actually exist and was something someone made up or was a malapropism (possibly correct use of that word...) if Vassily or something. Now that I'm asking, folks are saying "yes, I have seen it, it exists...", which I hadn't seen anyone do till now. [ quoted text not captured ]

"Peter D Bakija" <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:pdb6-508C23.2...@news-server.stny.rr.com... > In article <OhXJi.46316$L_7....@newsfe16.phx>, > "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > >> Yes, there is a card named that. Yes, I've held it in my hand. > > Ah, see, you are the first person to actually say this--up till this > point, there was still a hope that it was misinformation. Hmmm. Sorry you feel that way but it doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. I've often been annoyed by the tendency of players to Blood Doll themselves afloat in the face of a strong offense, making for mind-numbingly repititious, endless endgames. But the truth is, I'm really bad at seeing where things like this wind up leading to so I'll refrain from making up my mind until it's been in play for a while. Fred

> >> 2 x Margaret Milliner > >> 5 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 > >> dom for nec pot pre > >> Margaret gets +1 bleed if Francis Milliner is ready. Cards that require > >> Fortitude cost her an additional blood. > > All inferiors, two out-of-clan... Ok. Given the extra cost, not sure if For > is a good option for her except in urgency... > For what it's worth, Margaret combines well with Abdelsobek: 5 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 *for nec pre* + dom pot cap Follower of Set, Independent, Group 5 *for nec pre* + obf ser ...and I like playing allies, including Shamblers, in my FoS decks (as rush defence). A minor cool thing about them both being 5cap is the possibility of using skill cards to boost them to PRE and then bloating down to extra copies of themselves :-) > >> 2 x Lady Constancia > >> 10 cap Giovanni, Independent, Group 4 > >> AUS DOM FOR NEC POT > >> Constancia has 2 votes (titled). You may burn the Edge and spend a > >> discard phase action to discard a card at random and draw its > >> replacement from the other cards in your ash heap. > > Another fattie. Two votes, I don't like the AUS that much but FOR allows for > Freak Drives, along with some other titled dominaters... Still, 10 is a lot, > and it's not like Regina saw much light except for her recruit special. > > Orpheus OK, pretend you hate her AUS and FOR, and wish she had been a lower capacity. The special could *still* make her totally worth it, particularly if you use the occasional Liquidation to fuel your ash heap. ==> pull out the Lady, use her to retrieve Card X (Deflection, whatever) which will allow you to survive along enough to Minion Tap her. Tap her down to 4, and then pretend she's a midcap with an excellent special :-) BTW I saw Slam, and was like "hell yeah!" Slam Combat, potence, 1 blood (pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage (POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to close range. ...totally sweet for pure POT, IMO.

On 24 Sep., 19:14, atomweaver <atomwea...@hotmail.com> wrote: > preache...@gmx.at wrote in news:1190636530.212578.264560 > > See, we FoS-lovers get the shaft, path-wise. We are not to complain, > > cause "it's common as dirt and readily available" as it was put by > > people in another thread. > > Not "people"... me. *shrug* Its my opinion about our COLLECTABLE card > game, nothing more. BTW, I posted an email address, saying I was willing > to mail out some spare Path of Typhon to a guy in Australia for cost of > delivery (and I'd do the same for others). Guess how many people took me > up on that offer? Thats right, none. That's purely anecdotical, but nonetheless: I bought about 12 displays of AH back in the WotC days. Several other players in my city did, too. I gave away/binned all the stuff that I didn't need. I kept 6 Path of Typhoon (as I keep 6 of each unique library card, barring some exceptions). At this moment, new players in our area have a very hard time obtaining that path, if they wanted to. I was pointing out that AH is not anymore so readily available as you think it is. I acknowledge that you have tons of the path left, but this in no way mitigates the problem for new players at large. I'd guess that old and new players alike would prefer to just go over and buy the path in a starter and have it in the *new* layout. But I could be wrong. ;) > > > Those same people did not understand, that > > to some players reprints in the new layout are highly appreciated... > > 'Appreciated' wasn't the previous verbiage... appreciated != necesary... > and yet you remain correct, I don't agree with the need for all the old > cards in new layout. I'd rather have more, better New cards in the new > layout, instead. I never stated that those cards I mentioned were necessary. Never. We could have had both - new cards in the boosters (and look at those new cards that come in the boosters, they *replace* a great number of old cards which were not reprinted, so I think your wish has come true) and older reprinted cards in the starters. One (1) copy of the Path of Typhoon would have been nice. One (1) copy of Tongue of the Serpent would have been nice. Perhaps one copy of Form of the Serpent, too. I know that you can't have everything. :) If you make a list of FoS/SER cards that have not been reprinted, you come up with a number of gems and the list is quite long (20+ cards). Seriously, the Form of Corruption is just plain wrong in the starter, as it was reprinted lately in KMW and it hurts the game-flow (prey tends to not bleed anymore in general). Instead, the Path would have been appropriate. One of the S:CE cards could have been turned into a Tongue. And I'm sure that the Form would have fit in somewhere, too. I don't even go to Priestess of Sekmeth, Edge Vitiation(!), Typhonic Beast, Skin of the Adder et al. Look at the other starters. I'm missing Leonardo, Mortician in the Giovanni Starter. Thin Blood and Wave of Lethargy could easily have been included in the Assamite starter, and where is Rom Gypsy and Sensory Deprivation in the Ravnos Starter? Not that I'm complaining (too much), but I'm personally a *bit* disappointed with the overall choice of reprints. But it seems, that's just me. :( Thanks for your comments, though, Dave. Carl

> BTW I saw Slam, and was like "hell yeah!" > > Slam > Combat, potence, 1 blood > (pot) Strike: make a hand strike at strength +2 damage > (POT) As above, with an optional maneuver, only usable to maneuver to > close range. > > ...totally sweet for pure POT, IMO. Or for Pot For. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sep 24, 9:49 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote: > Hmmm. Sorry you feel that way but it doesn't seem like a bad thing > to me. Oh, heh--I guess you missed all the earlier discussion on the subject. A lot of folks have (once the card got spoiled) voiced not totally unreasonable concern about the magic bulletness/forced obsolescenceness (boy, is that probably spelled wrong...) of Blood Doll that this card represents. Yeah, in and of itself, Vessel (assuming the wording is akin to what was spoiled, although your description matches) isn't that bad of a card, but that it burns Blood Dolls while doing more or less the same thing means that it is likely going to result in Blood Doll becoming marginalized (why play a Blood Doll when it is just likely to be burned anyway?). Which might be good for the game in an absolute sense, but it still is kind of a wonky way to go about it. I would have rather seen Blood Doll errata of some type and a Blood Doll reprint that a magic bullet that kills Blood Dolls and effectively replaces them at the same time. -Peter

[ quoted text not captured ] Spelling correct. And agreed, but the use of this card is not near that of BD's. It takes 3 turns to make a profit, BD is immediate. So BD + Vessel could see play, I guess...

On Sep 25, 8:49 am, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Spelling correct. And agreed, but the use of this card is not near > that of BD's. It takes 3 turns to make a profit, BD is immediate. So > BD + Vessel could see play, I guess Sure--Vessel is mostly just not as good as Blood Doll. It is probably the level of use that Blood Doll should have been all along (as Blood Doll is arguably just too good). But rather than fixing Blood Doll, Vessel is likely going to arms-race Blood Doll out of existance--when Vessel enters circulation, Blood Dolls look less and less attractive. Which makes folks use Blood Doll less and rely on the one shot pool gain cards (Tribute and Tap) and rely on Vessel for long term pool gain. Which again, as noted, might be totally reasonable in terms of overall game play. But the mechanism that is "printing a specific card that makes Blood Doll likely too risky to be worth playing" seems possibly questionable. -Peter

Peter D Bakija wrote: > But the mechanism that is "printing a specific card > that makes Blood Doll likely too risky to be worth playing" seems > possibly questionable. Again, what is risky? Blood Doll costs no pool and pays benefit immediately (if you're setting up the example to burn the BD on the very next turn), and players normally pack more than one. Sudden Reversal already makes Blood Doll "riskier" than Vessel does. Besides, the mechanism of a new card making an old card riskier (for real) is nothing new.

In article <SJcKi.51880$Um6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Again, what is risky? Losing the card--that is the risk. Currently, you risk losing the card to SR, which you risk losing all masters to. But as SR doesn't gain the person playing it (other than making you lose your MPA, which is often good, but still just making you lose something and not making them gain something), they don't show up constantly, and even when in hand, often are saved for a clinch. And also only work if you have the SR in hand right then. Vessel kills your Blood Doll and gains the person playing it, their own Blood Doll. So in all likelyhood, once Vessel hits wide circulation, they'll show up a lot, which makes playing Blood Doll much less good, as the likelyhood of losing the Blood Doll becomes high, even after it is in play. So Blood Doll becomes a marginalized card. Which clearly is the whole point. But still, the mechanism is a bit wonky. > Besides, the mechanism of a new card making an old card riskier (for real) is > nothing new. Well, the specific naming of one card on a trumpy other card is new. And not necessarily something that is a good idea. [ quoted text not captured ]