I figuratively walked in on an argument in the IRC channel about
Target: Hand, and whether or not it can work with Catatonic Fear. Matt
Morgan was arguing that it does not, since combat is over when the CF
damage occurs. Joz argued that the text does not specify when the
damage must occur for the effect to work. I'm sort of on the fence
about this, since the effect is very new and might require some kind
of ruling. To my knowledge there are no combat cards or abilities in
the game that initiate an effect outside of the combat, except for
those that can obviously *only* happen outside of it. The latter class
includes things like Form of Mist, Psyche!, Catatonic Fear, and
Blissful Agony, along with non-combat cards like Rotschreck. Other
strike effects that trigger upon inflicting damage are all tied to
specific strikes, and thus can not be used to modify Catatonic Fear.
I'm not sure which way LSJ will rule on this, and I suspect balance
considerations might play a role in addition to pure game dynamics.
For what it's worth, an affirmative ruling would also complicate the
already irritating bookkeeping created by Catatonic Fear and
Telepathic Tracking. I'm curious as to whether or not this came up in
playtest, but given the Kafkaesque nature of playtesting it seems
unlikely that I'll receive a straight answer anytime soon.
Joz was begging for someone to post the question, and I initially
wasn't going to, until a further argument ensued, in which I am quite
sure to have been on the right side. Tero suggested that Mercy for
Seth (at inferior) presented another case in which damage from a
strike could occur outside of combat. However, it seems to me that the
damage from Mercy is not inflicted by the strike, since the strike
becomes a card in play upon resolution and is no longer a strike when
it inflicts damage. Thus, this should not present any sort of problem
for Aim cards.
I attempted to give a counterexample in Molotov Cocktail; if an Aim
card is played on the strike to equip with the Cocktail, it does not
have any effect on the strike to throw in a subsequent round. After
posting this, I was informed that I must be smoking crack. In fact, I
am only drinking beer.
Relevant card text quoted below for those too lazy to look it up:
Target Hand:
...if any damage from this strike is successfully inflicted on the
opposing minion...
Catatonic Fear:
pre: Strike: combat ends.
PRE: As above, and inflict 1 damage to the opposing minion once combat
ends if the range is close.
Mercy for Seth:
nec: Strike: put this card on the opposing minion ... During his or
her untap phase, the minion with this card takes 1 unpreventable
damage.
Molotov Cocktail:
Strike: put this card on this minion; it becomes an equipment card: a
weapon. Beginning with the next round of this combat, the bearer can
strike with this weapon for 2R aggravated damage. Burn this card after
use or when combat ends.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I don't know - I kinda like the thought of getting to announce
"Catatonic Fear - TO YOUR JUNK!" and "Mercy for YOUR HEAD" and so
forth. :P
-John Flournoy
(as-of-yet un)PUTRIFIED VITALS!
On Sep 27, 3:54 pm, CthuluKitty <vtanarch...@riseup.net> wrote:
>
> Relevant card text quoted below for those too lazy to look it up:
>
> Target Hand:
> ...if any damage from this strike is successfully inflicted on the
> opposing minion...
>
> Catatonic Fear:
> pre: Strike: combat ends.
> PRE: As above, and inflict 1 damage to the opposing minion once combat
> ends if the range is close.
>
> Mercy for Seth:
> nec: Strike: put this card on the opposing minion ... During his or
> her untap phase, the minion with this card takes 1 unpreventable
> damage.
>
> Molotov Cocktail:
> Strike: put this card on this minion; it becomes an equipment card: a
> weapon. Beginning with the next round of this combat, the bearer can
> strike with this weapon for 2R aggravated damage. Burn this card after
> use or when combat ends.
The way I understand it:
Catatonic Fear causes damage as an effect. The strike only ends
combat, and thus deals no damage. Targeting vitals or head would not
apply.
Mercy for Seth inferior simply places the card on the vampire, and
deals no damage. At superior, it deals 1 damage, which could be
declared with a Target.
Molotov Cocktail again just puts the card in play as a strike
initially. That strike deals no damage. The subsequent strike in the
following round could be played with Target [x].
Wookie wrote:
> The way I understand it:
>
> Catatonic Fear causes damage as an effect. The strike only ends
> combat, and thus deals no damage. Targeting vitals or head would not
> apply.
You understand incorrectly. Catatonic Fear is a strike that does
damage, which is why you can dodge to avoid the hit, just as you can
dodge the untap effect of Meld with the Land at inferior. In all
cases, any effect a strike has on the opposing minion is part of the
strike, and this is certainly the case here.
> Mercy for Seth inferior simply places the card on the vampire, and
> deals no damage. At superior, it deals 1 damage, which could be
> declared with a Target.
>
> Molotov Cocktail again just puts the card in play as a strike
> initially. That strike deals no damage. The subsequent strike in the
> following round could be played with Target [x].
Agreed.
On Sep 27, 11:23 pm, CthuluKitty <vtanarch...@riseup.net> wrote:
> Wookie wrote:
> > The way I understand it:
>
> > Catatonic Fear causes damage as an effect. The strike only ends
> > combat, and thus deals no damage. Targeting vitals or head would not
> > apply.
>
> You understand incorrectly. Catatonic Fear is a strike that does
> damage, which is why you can dodge to avoid the hit, just as you can
> dodge the untap effect of Meld with the Land at inferior. In all
> cases, any effect a strike has on the opposing minion is part of the
> strike, and this is certainly the case here.
I was enlightened in another thread. Thanks for squaring the issue up
here, though.
Yo Joe!!
On Sep 27, 11:23 pm, CthuluKitty <vtanarch...@riseup.net> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
Wait a minute... still needs a minor check. LSJ?
The damage of catatonic fear is done after combat.
Thus Target Hand in this case would also come into effect then after
combat.
Target Hand does not state an 'effect after combat' clause. [Doesn't
clarify, but it is a combat card].
It seems that it should work...
adam....@gmail.com wrote:
> Wait a minute... still needs a minor check. LSJ?
> The damage of catatonic fear is done after combat.
> Thus Target Hand in this case would also come into effect then after
> combat.
> Target Hand does not state an 'effect after combat' clause. [Doesn't
> clarify, but it is a combat card].
> It seems that it should work...
Yes