[LSJ]: The rack, burning a vampire and influencing back in a duplicate vampire

Quick question that popped up last game I would like a 'writ of LSJ' on. I have searched but I couldn't find anything specific on it. My prey has one Salbatore Bokkengro in play and one in her uncontrolled region. She plays the rack for it. I put a Judgement: Camarilla Segregation in play. During her minion phase, she burns Salbatore to burn the Judgement: Camarilla Segregation. Now, if she influences back in the Salbatore Bokkengro from her uncontrolled region, does he gain control of the Rack because he is the same vampire as the one that was chosen when she put the Rack in play? A ruling or reference would help us out with this. Thank you in advance, Jeroen du Chatinier

Jeroen du Chatinier wrote: > My prey has one Salbatore Bokkengro in play and one in her > uncontrolled region. She plays the rack for it. You can't play The Rack on an uncontrolled vampire. You can't play Master cards on uncontrolled vampires unless they specifically say "put this card on an uncontrolled vampire". I put a Judgement: > Camarilla Segregation in play. During her minion phase, she burns > Salbatore to burn the Judgement: Camarilla Segregation. Now, if she > influences back in the Salbatore Bokkengro from her uncontrolled > region, does he gain control of the Rack because he is the same > vampire as the one that was chosen when she put the Rack in play? Moot. Peter D Bakija PD...@bigplanet.com http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6 "The gun is good! The penis is bad!" -Zardoz

Jeroen du Chatinier wrote: > Quick question that popped up last game I would like a 'writ of LSJ' > on. I have searched but I couldn't find anything specific on it. > > My prey has one Salbatore Bokkengro in play and one in her > uncontrolled region. She plays the rack for it. I put a Judgement: > Camarilla Segregation in play. During her minion phase, she burns > Salbatore to burn the Judgement: Camarilla Segregation. Now, if she > influences back in the Salbatore Bokkengro from her uncontrolled > region, does he gain control of the Rack because he is the same > vampire as the one that was chosen when she put the Rack in play? No. The Rack points at a specific card, not a name. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:33:10 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >No. The Rack points at a specific card, not a name. in the card migration list it has the rack only 'working' if the controller of the rack and the controller of the vampire it points at are the same (VTES migration). CE text does not mention this. say i have the rack pointing at angra mainyou, and he goes to torpor and is graverobbed by my predator. then, during MY untap phase, angra, controlled by my predator, gains 2 blood? is this optional, if it's true? and as it's my rack, if it is optional, i assume it is me that chooses if the rack puts out, and not angra's new controller? also, just to refresh my memory, do cards that 'choose' a vampire but never actually get placed ON them count as being 'played on' the vampire? for example, if giotto has a secure haven, does it cost 1 pool to play a Life in the City that chooses him? thanks, salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm

salem wrote: > also, just to refresh my memory, do cards that 'choose' a vampire but > never actually get placed ON them count as being 'played on' the > vampire? > for example, if giotto has a secure haven, does it cost 1 pool to play > a Life in the City that chooses him? "Any Methuselah burns an additional pool when playing master cards on (or that target) this minion." So I'd say yes. --Colin McGuigan

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:32:03 -0500, Colin McGuigan <maguaSP...@speakeasy.net> scrawled: [ quoted text not captured ] oooh. cam ed text or anarchs? (is it in anarchs?) don't bother answering, as i'm going to look it up in a sec anyway. :) [ quoted text not captured ]

salem wrote: > in the card migration list it has the rack only 'working' if the > controller of the rack and the controller of the vampire it points at > are the same (VTES migration). > CE text does not mention this. Hmm. Migrated back, then. Thanks for pointing that out. > say i have the rack pointing at angra mainyou, and he goes to torpor > and is graverobbed by my predator. then, during MY untap phase, angra, > controlled by my predator, gains 2 blood? Yes. > is this optional, if it's true? No. > and as it's my rack, if it is optional, i assume it is me that chooses > if the rack puts out, and not angra's new controller? Moot. > also, just to refresh my memory, do cards that 'choose' a vampire but > never actually get placed ON them count as being 'played on' the > vampire? > for example, if giotto has a secure haven, does it cost 1 pool to play > a Life in the City that chooses him? Yes, as Colin points out. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3F295F36...@white-wolf.com>... > salem wrote: > > in the card migration list it has the rack only 'working' if the > > controller of the rack and the controller of the vampire it points at > > are the same (VTES migration). > > CE text does not mention this. > > Hmm. Migrated back, then. Thanks for pointing that out. > > > say i have the rack pointing at angra mainyou, and he goes to torpor > > and is graverobbed by my predator. then, during MY untap phase, angra, > > controlled by my predator, gains 2 blood? > > Yes. > > > is this optional, if it's true? > > No. > > > and as it's my rack, if it is optional, i assume it is me that chooses > > if the rack puts out, and not angra's new controller? > > Moot. > > > also, just to refresh my memory, do cards that 'choose' a vampire but > > never actually get placed ON them count as being 'played on' the > > vampire? > > for example, if giotto has a secure haven, does it cost 1 pool to play > > a Life in the City that chooses him? > > Yes, as Colin points out. Doesn't that conflict with your previous advice (From way back in April 98). There may be more recent examples, but I got tired of looking -------------------------------------- daniel frey wrote: > Since the Rack has the odd aspect of being targetted at a vampire vs. > being put on a vampire, does the Rack cost one pool to play on a secure > havened vampire? No. Similarly, you could play a contract on a minion and name an Assamite who had a Secure Haven without paying a pool. (Although you would have to pay a pool if the minion who you put the Contract on has a Secure Haven, of course, not that it would accomplish much, since you couldn't use it to attack the minion until the Haven was burned.) -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) Official VtES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. (*) - Subject to review by Rules Team

Hollowboy wrote: > Doesn't that conflict with your previous advice (From way back in April 98). Yes. But not with the reversal/MRP that came after it. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:25:58 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> scrawled: >salem wrote: >> in the card migration list it has the rack only 'working' if the >> controller of the rack and the controller of the vampire it points at >> are the same (VTES migration). >> CE text does not mention this. > >Hmm. Migrated back, then. Thanks for pointing that out. > >> say i have the rack pointing at angra mainyou, and he goes to torpor >> and is graverobbed by my predator. then, during MY untap phase, angra, >> controlled by my predator, gains 2 blood? > >Yes. > >> is this optional, if it's true? > >No. in this post: (16 Jul 2001) http://www.google.com.au/groups?selm=3B568878%40MailAndNews.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain you (LSJ) said: "The "you do X" of locations isn't mandatory in general." You then went on to state you would be updating the card texts to explicitly optionalise the relevant cards. did this text updating overturn the 'The "you do X" of locations isn't mandatory in general.' ruling, and that is why the Rack is not optional? (as it's text has not been updated to be optional). >> also, just to refresh my memory, do cards that 'choose' a vampire but >> never actually get placed ON them count as being 'played on' the >> vampire? >> for example, if giotto has a secure haven, does it cost 1 pool to play >> a Life in the City that chooses him? > >Yes, as Colin points out. should that be included in the migration list, since it seems to slightly change the functionality of the card from the DS printing? [ quoted text not captured ]