Please help me rules-mongers!!!!
I understand that if I play Dawn Operation all damage is aggravated in
the ensuing combat and then someone can play Rotschreck on either
combatant because, even if striking for hand damage, they are attempting
an aggravated strike (exception: S:Dodge or S:CE)
What happens with Mariel Lady Thunder. If she taps, both combatants
take a point of aggravated damage, right? Can I now play Rotschreck on
her because she is the source of the damage?
Also, what about retainers. If, during the Dawn Operation combat, I
target a Sub Machine Gun Strike at Long Range at the opponents retainer
(eg Mr. Winthrop) does that still count as aggravated damage because
retainers can't take aggr. dam? Could someone play Rotschreck on me
then?
James Coupe.
On Mon, 23 Dec 1996 16:44:32 +0000, Justin <Jus...@bgrace.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
>Please help me rules-mongers!!!!
>
>I understand that if I play Dawn Operation all damage is aggravated in
>the ensuing combat and then someone can play Rotschreck on either
>combatant because, even if striking for hand damage, they are attempting
>an aggravated strike (exception: S:Dodge or S:CE)
Yes.
>What happens with Mariel Lady Thunder. If she taps, both combatants
>take a point of aggravated damage, right? Can I now play Rotschreck on
>her because she is the source of the damage?
No. Mariel's text reads as follows:
"Tap Mariel before range is chosen to end any combat that does not
involve her. All participating minions and retainers suffer one
damage."
As effects are resolved in order of their listing on the card, Mariel
would end combat, and then deal damage to all minions and retainers,
which would be non-aggravated. Even beyond that, however, Rotshreck
can only be used on a vampire attempting to use aggravated damage as a
strike in combat(or so I believe); since Mariel is not striking, much
less using aggravated damage, and since she is not even involved in
the combat, she is immune.
>Also, what about retainers. If, during the Dawn Operation combat, I
>target a Sub Machine Gun Strike at Long Range at the opponents retainer
>(eg Mr. Winthrop) does that still count as aggravated damage because
>retainers can't take aggr. dam? Could someone play Rotschreck on me
>then?
Rotshreck, as it reads from raw card text, is a nightmare(of trying to
figure out what it actually does, at least in the Jyhad version).
However, if you are using the interpretation that it is played on the
vampire trying to use aggravated damage, then yes, it may be used.
Alec Chang
Please help me rules-mongers!!!!
I understand that if I play Dawn Operation all damage is aggravated in
the ensuing combat and then someone can play Rotschreck on either
combatant because, even if striking for hand damage, they are attempting
an aggravated strike (exception: S:Dodge or S:CE)
What happens with Mariel Lady Thunder. If she taps, both combatants
take a point of aggravated damage, right? Can I now play Rotschreck on
her because she is the source of the damage?
Also, what about retainers. If, during the Dawn Operation combat, I
target a Sub Machine Gun Strike at Long Range at the opponents retainer
(eg Mr. Winthrop) does that still count as aggravated damage because
retainers can't take aggr. dam? Could someone play Rotschreck on me
then?
James Coupe.
In article <5a4vaf$5...@nr1.vancouver.istar.net>, Jus...@bgrace.demon.co.uk
says...
[ quoted text not captured ]
1. I don't thin that Lady Thunder would be considered the source of
damage , it's more like "affect" that ending the combat has on the vamps.
involved >> i say that u cannot play ROTSCH. on her
2. If u strike with Sub Mashinegun then it will be aggrivated even if u
target the retainer ( it does not matter what u target ) , and also -
retainers do take damage even if it's aggrivated ; just treat any damage to
ally as regular damage >> i say that u can play ROTSCH. in this situation
i'am no rulemonger , but hopefully this will help :)
Alec Chang wrote:
[clip]
> Rotshreck, as it reads from raw card text, is a nightmare(of trying to
> figure out what it actually does, at least in the Jyhad version).
> However, if you are using the interpretation that it is played on the
> vampire trying to use aggravated damage, then yes, it may be used.
>
Alec, I think you may be incorrect on this one. We should check with
LSJ to make sure but Rotshreck can only be used when a minion attemps to
deal aggravated damage _as a strike_. That's why you can't Rotshreck a
Dawn Op'd Weather Control or a Dragon's Breath round .
Robert
--
......................................................................
:The opinions expressed here are strictly my own delusional ramblings:
:and do not reflect the opinions of The Walt Disney Company. :
: :
:Robert Goudie robert...@studio.disney.com:
:....................................................................:
:cigars * v:tes * car rallies * scotch * sega rally champion * spoon :
:....................................................................:
In article <5a59eu$5...@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>, ho...@intergate.bc.ca says...
[ quoted text not captured ]>retainer as regular damage >> i say that u can play ROTSCH. in this situation[ quoted text not captured ]
On Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:22:22 -0800, Robert Goudie
<robert...@studio.disney.com> wrote:
>Alec Chang wrote:
>[clip]>> Rotshreck, as it reads from raw card text, is a nightmare(of trying to
>> figure out what it actually does, at least in the Jyhad version).
>> However, if you are using the interpretation that it is played on the
>> vampire trying to use aggravated damage, then yes, it may be used.
>>>Alec, I think you may be incorrect on this one. We should check with
>LSJ to make sure but Rotshreck can only be used when a minion attemps to
>deal aggravated damage _as a strike_. That's why you can't Rotshreck a
>Dawn Op'd Weather Control or a Dragon's Breath round .
Sorry, Robert, I think that you clipped too much for what I was saying
or responding to to be apparent. Here's What my post was:
_____[begin old post]
>Also, what about retainers. If, during the Dawn Operation combat, I
>target a Sub Machine Gun Strike at Long Range at the opponents retainer
>(eg Mr. Winthrop) does that still count as aggravated damage because
>retainers can't take aggr. dam? Could someone play Rotschreck on me
>then?
Rotshreck, as it reads from raw card text, is a nightmare(of trying to
figure out what it actually does, at least in the Jyhad version).
However, if you are using the interpretation that it is played on the
vampire trying to use aggravated damage, then yes, it may be used.
_____[end old post]
So, my understanding of what the question was:
A minion you control is using aggravated damage (as a strike) at an
opponent's retainer. This is obviously a strike using aggravated
damage, so it would come under Rotshreck's purview. correct?
If you thought I was saying something different or responding to a
different point, then my apologies for not being clear enough.
Alec Chang
Robert Goudie <robert...@studio.disney.com> writes:
>Alec Chang wrote:>> Rotshreck, as it reads from raw card text, is a nightmare(of trying to
>> figure out what it actually does, at least in the Jyhad version).
>> However, if you are using the interpretation that it is played on the
>> vampire trying to use aggravated damage, then yes, it may be used.
>>>Alec, I think you may be incorrect on this one. We should check with
>LSJ to make sure but Rotshreck can only be used when a minion attemps to
>deal aggravated damage _as a strike_. That's why you can't Rotshreck a
>Dawn Op'd Weather Control or a Dragon's Breath round .
In the last (dichotomous) ruling by WotC (as reported by Scalpel),
Rotschreck can be used in response to any agg-damage, not just strikes.
(But can/cannot be used against Pulled Fangs).
I believe the final ruling will be to allow Rotschreck to be played
any time aggravated damage is announced.
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) |
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home |
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |
[clip everything!]
Sorry Alec, I clipped far too much. I thought I was responding too an
affirmitive response on your part as to the question of whether Marial,
Lady Thunder can be Rotshrecked! In fact, you responded appropriately
saying that Rotshreck could not be played on her when she uses her
special ability.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Robert Goudie <robert...@studio.disney.com> writes:
>[clip everything!]>Sorry Alec, I clipped far too much. I thought I was responding too an
>affirmitive response on your part as to the question of whether Marial,
>Lady Thunder can be Rotshrecked! In fact, you responded appropriately
>saying that Rotshreck could not be played on her when she uses her
>special ability.
Sorry to have missed all of this discussion, but from the looks of
things, a little clarification is in order.
Mariel's damage is viewed as coming from her, but it occurs after
combat is ended, so would not be aggravated during a Dawn Operation.
If it were aggravated (for whatever reason), Rotschreck *could* be played
on her, per updated card text:
4) Rotschreck should be read as follows: "Play on a vampire that attempts to
inflict aggravated damage. Combat ends, and that vampire goes into torpor.
During the vampire's controller's next untap phase, burn this card instead of
untapping the vampire."
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Neurotic:
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | Self-taut person.
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <32C7FA...@studio.disney.com>,
Robert Goudie <robert...@studio.disney.com> wrote:
>Alec Chang wrote:
>[clip]>> Rotshreck, as it reads from raw card text, is a nightmare(of trying to
>> figure out what it actually does, at least in the Jyhad version).
>> However, if you are using the interpretation that it is played on the
>> vampire trying to use aggravated damage, then yes, it may be used.
>>>Alec, I think you may be incorrect on this one. We should check with
>LSJ to make sure but Rotshreck can only be used when a minion attemps to
>deal aggravated damage _as a strike_. That's why you can't Rotshreck a
>Dawn Op'd Weather Control or a Dragon's Breath round .
Hi Robert,
the official rulings that are published in LSJ's errata collection name
this for Rotschreck
Rotschreck - Master Out-Of-Turn:
Should be read as follows: "Play on a vampire that attempts to inflict
aggravated damage. Combat ends, and that vampire goes into torpor. During
the vampire's controller's next untap phase, burn this card instead of
untapping the vampire." [RTR]
Is played when strikes are chosen, not during resolution. [TOM 960521]
Especially the second point seems to be somewhat contradictory since DBR
*is* played during resolution and the very same errata names Rotschreck
to work against it (as follows):
Damage Modification Cards
Must be played before the end of the Choose Strike phase in order to affect
the current strike. [RTR]
Ammo cards are played before any strikes take effect regardless of whether
those strikes deal damage or not. Thus, if a vampire who plays Dragon's
Breath Rounds is slammed by Rotschreck, the combat will end before either
strike does anything. [RTR]
(this may be the source for contradicting rulings from the RTR of late)
So in fact there seems to be some desperate need for clarification with
regards to Rotschreck.
Michael
--
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2b or not 2b that's ff (or ger...@ifm.uni-hamburg.de)
WWW-Homepage http://elmshorn.netsurf.de/~m.gerdau
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m.ge...@elmshorn.netsurf.de (Michael Gerdau) writes:
>the official rulings that are published in LSJ's errata collection name
>this for Rotschreck>Rotschreck - Master Out-Of-Turn:
> Should be read as follows: "Play on a vampire that attempts to inflict
> aggravated damage. Combat ends, and that vampire goes into torpor. During
> the vampire's controller's next untap phase, burn this card instead of
> untapping the vampire." [RTR]
> Is played when strikes are chosen, not during resolution. [TOM 960521]>Especially the second point seems to be somewhat contradictory since DBR
>*is* played during resolution and the very same errata names Rotschreck
>to work against it (as follows):
The second point has been overturned (somewhat) - Rotschreck can now
be played any time aggravated damage is announced (except/including
Pulled Fangs)
--
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | * - Tribble
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | (-*-) - Darth Tribble in his
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | TIE Fighter
In article <5ah02b$5...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>,
sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote:
> Sorry to have missed all of this discussion, but from the looks of
> things, a little clarification is in order.
>
> Mariel's damage is viewed as coming from her, but it occurs after
> combat is ended, so would not be aggravated during a Dawn Operation.
Baugh! According to the latest ruling on Mariel (Nov. 1, 1994), the
damage done by her special effect would be aggravated during a dawn
operation.
> If it were aggravated (for whatever reason), Rotschreck *could* be played
> on her, per updated card text:
So, Rotschreck *can* be played on Mariel if she taps to end combat
when the action has been modified by a Dawn Operation.
Sorry for the erroneous ruling (which followed from card text - I still
don't understand why Mariel's damage is applied during combat).
---
L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | * - Tribble
http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | (-*-) - Darth Tribble in his
Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | TIE Fighter
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