Beginning the Final Nights cardlist (contains Spoiler)

This mail contains Final Nights spoilers, so don't read this if you prefer to wait a few days to discover the expansion. For the others, let's go ! Here's a starting list of the new Final Nights cards, (after opening 7 boosters and an Assamite Starter). It's far from complete, so feel free to complete it. Rarity is based on the fact that the last card in a booster is Rare and that all Uncommons are Vampire. Fida'i Assamite 2 Anwar Assamite 4 Parmenides Assamite 4 Badr al-Budur Assamite 5 Zahir, Hand of the Silsila Assamite 6 Fatima al-Faqadi Assamite 8 Qadir ul-Ghani Assamite 9 Celine Chevalier Followers of Set 3 Aabt Kindred Followers of Set 4 Count Ormonde Followers of Set 5 Hesha Ruhadze Followers of Set 6 Qufur am-Heru Followers of Set 7 Danny Larkshill Followers of Set 7 Chas Giovanni Tello Giovanni 4 Ambrogino Giovanni Giovanni 9 Anatole, Prophet of Gehenna Malkavian 8 Christianus Lionel, The Mad Chronicler !Nosferatu 6 Anka, Priestess of Thorns Ravnos 4 Khalil Ravanna Ravnos 5 Ghivran Dalaal, The Dead God Ravnos 5 Spider-Killer Ravnos 10 Melisande !Toreador 9 Goratrix !Tremere 10 Gustav Mallenhous !Ventrue 8 Amria Common Chimerstry Combat Baleful Doll Common Necromancy Equipment Blackmail Common Obfuscate Action Blood Clots Common Quietus Action Clandestine Contract Common Assamite Action Contingency Planning Common Master Dagon's Call Common Quietus Combat Dismemberment of Osiris Rare Serpentis Action Draba Common Chimerstry Action/Reaction Ecstasy Common Serpentis Reaction Enticement Common Serpentis Action Exuding Blood Common Quietus Combat Free States Rant Common Political Action Garrote Common Equipment Grasp the Ghostly Common Necromancy Action Haunt Common Necromancy Action Honor the Elders Common Political Action Jones, The Common Serpentis Combat Khobar Towers, Al-Khubar Rare F. of Set Master King of the Mountain Common Fortitude Combat Meat Hook Common Equipment Mirror Image Common Chimerstry Action Modifier/Combat Reinforcements Rare Political Action Relentless Pursuit Common Potence Combat Scorpion's Touch Common Quietus Combat Shambling Horde Common Necromancy Ally Skin of the Adder Common Serpentis Combat Sniper Rifle Rare Equipment Stutter-Step Common Celerity Combat Succulent Vitae Common Quietus Action Modifier Summoning, The Common Presence Action Summon Soul Common Necromancy Action Thin Blood Common Quietus Combat Thrones Crumble Common Serpentis Action Tower of London Rare Giovanni Master Treasured Samadji Rare Ravnos Equipment Vascular Explosion Common Quietus Combat Veil of Silence Common Quietus Reaction Venenation Common Serpentis Action Modifier Venericorum Artum Sanguis Rare Equipment Well, this expansion seems to have a lot of pretty damn cool cards ! The Assamite starter was fun to play, even with its low number of additional strikes (no Blurs !) and its total lack of pool gain. I was quite surprised that Assamite can now make deadly combat at close range too (Thin Blood+Dagon's Call, and add Disease if you feel like it). The Giovannis stil haven't convinced me, although they now have cool vampires. The Ravnos seem to be quite powerful now, even if the Path of Paradox seems not to have been printed. Well, at least there's one Ravnos who has cheaper Chimerstry cards. As for the Setites... I'll only say that Free States Rant+Form of Corruption is... well, deadly. I liked the concept of the two little non-unique vampires (Aabt Kindred and Fida'i). Too bad Aabt guys don't have any obfuscate, though.

More, more, more - we want the full card texts!!! Lasse "kuquami" <kuq...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:e566b46.01060...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

If you haven't been to a Pre-Release event, I can say you missed out on some of the best fun we've had in a long while. Also, opening a booster completely filled with new cards is very orgasmic. Thank you White Wolf! >"kuquami" <kuq...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse >news:e566b46.01060...@posting.google.com... >> This mail contains Final Nights spoilers, so don't read this if you >> prefer to wait a few days to discover the expansion. For the others, >> let's go ! >> >> Here's a starting list of the new Final Nights cards, (after opening 7 >> boosters and an Assamite Starter). It's far from complete, so feel >> free to complete it. >> >> Rarity is based on the fact that the last card in a booster is Rare >> and that all Uncommons are Vampire. Well, I wish I'd known that earlier, I'd have made certain to take note of the various rarities. Nonetheless, here are the cards I got out of 5 boosters and a Giovanni starter deck. No descriptions of the cards, I want you to get a thrill when you first see them. Not much wallpaper in the expansion, at first sight. >> Fida'i Assamite 2 >> Anwar Assamite 4 >> Parmenides Assamite 4 >> Badr al-Budur Assamite 5 >> Zahir, Hand of the Silsila Assamite 6 >> Fatima al-Faqadi Assamite 8 >> Qadir ul-Ghani Assamite 9 Theo Bell Brujah 7 <<<<<<<<< WHOA!!! In art and power Julian Sanders !Brujah 6 >> Celine Chevalier Followers of Set 3 >> Aabt Kindred Followers of Set 4 >> Count Ormonde Followers of Set 5 >> Hesha Ruhadze Followers of Set 6 >> Qufur am-Heru Followers of Set 7 >> Danny Larkshill Followers of Set 7 Paul DiCarlo, The Alpha Giovanni 2 Marciana Giovanni, Investigator Giovanni 2 >> Chas Giovanni Tello Giovanni 4 Isabel Giovanni Giovanni 5 Marianna Giovanni 8 >> Ambrogino Giovanni Giovanni 9 Silvia Giovanni Giovanni 10 >> Anatole, Prophet of Gehenna Malkavian 8 Theron !Malkavian 8 >> Christianus Lionel, The Mad Chronicler !Nosferatu 6 >> Anka, Priestess of Thorns Ravnos 4 >> Khalil Ravanna Ravnos 5 >> Ghivran Dalaal, The Dead God Ravnos 5 Ivan Krenyenko Ravnos 10 >> Spider-Killer Ravnos 10 Victoria Ash Toreador 6 >> Melisande !Toreador 9 >> Goratrix !Tremere 10 >> Gustav Mallenhous !Ventrue 8 >> >> Amria Common Chimerstry Combat >> Baleful Doll Common Necromancy Equipment Banner of Neutrality Common? Reaction >> Blackmail Common Obfuscate Action >> Blood Clots Common Quietus Action Call of the Hungry Dead Common Necromancy Action Modifier >> Clandestine Contract Common Assamite Action >> Contingency Planning Common Master >> Dagon's Call Common Quietus Combat Daemonic Possession Rare Necromancy Action >> Dismemberment of Osiris Rare Serpentis Action >> Draba Common Chimerstry Action/Reaction >> Ecstasy Common Serpentis Reaction >> Enticement Common Serpentis Action >> Exuding Blood Common Quietus Combat Felix "Fix" Hessian Rare? Giovanni Ally Final Nights, The Common? Political Action >> Free States Rant Common Political Action >> Garrote Common Equipment >> Grasp the Ghostly Common Necromancy Action Guard Duty ???? Action >> Haunt Common Necromancy Action >> Honor the Elders Common Political Action Jake Washington (Hunter) Rare? Unique Master >> Jones, The Common Serpentis Combat >> Khobar Towers, Al-Khubar Rare F. of Set Master >> King of the Mountain Common Fortitude Combat Masquer (Wraith) Common Necromancy Retainer >> Meat Hook Common Equipment >> Mirror Image Common Chimerstry Action Modifier/Combat Provision of the Silsila Rare? Assamite Action Modifier/Reaction Puppeteer (Wraith) Rare Necromancy Ally Reality Common? Chimestry Action >> Reinforcements Rare Political Action >> Relentless Pursuit Common Potence Combat Save Face ???? Combat >> Scorpion's Touch Common Quietus Combat Sensory Overload Common? Chimestry Action >> Shambling Horde Common Necromancy Ally >> Skin of the Adder Common Serpentis Combat >> Sniper Rifle Rare Equipment >> Stutter-Step Common Celerity Combat >> Succulent Vitae Common Quietus Action Modifier >> Summoning, The Common Presence Action >> Summon Soul Common Necromancy Action >> Thin Blood Common Quietus Combat >> Thrones Crumble Common Serpentis Action >> Tower of London Rare Giovanni Master Tortured Confessions Common Combat >> Treasured Samadji Rare Ravnos Equipment >> Vascular Explosion Common Quietus Combat >> Veil of Silence Common Quietus Reaction >> Venenation Common Serpentis Action Modifier >> Venericorum Artum Sanguis Rare Equipment Venetian Conference Common? Giovanni Reaction Zillah's Valley Rare? Master >> Well, this expansion seems to have a lot of pretty damn cool cards ! >> >> The Assamite starter was fun to play, even with its low number of >> additional strikes (no Blurs !) and its total lack of pool gain. I was >> quite surprised that Assamite can now make deadly combat at close >> range too (Thin Blood+Dagon's Call, and add Disease if you feel like >> it). The Giovannis stil haven't convinced me, although they now have >> cool vampires. The Ravnos seem to be quite powerful now, even if the >> Path of Paradox seems not to have been printed. Well, at least there's >> one Ravnos who has cheaper Chimerstry cards. As for the Setites... >> I'll only say that Free States Rant+Form of Corruption is... well, >> deadly. I liked the concept of the two little non-unique vampires >> (Aabt Kindred and Fida'i). Too bad Aabt guys don't have any obfuscate, >> though. Also nice to see superior Fata Morgana rewritten to "+1 stealth and +1 bleed OR +1 bleed". Not mentionned over there 'cause I don't remember their names, but there are at least 3 new bane mummies. Also, the Settite starter deck has 2 of those, but not necessarily the same. I've seen one with and one without Kherebutu. Watch out though, there were some problems when they made the starter decks. One Ravnos deck (out of 8 opened) was missing twelve or so commons, all replaced by a block of copies of the same vampire. But all in all, if you like those independant clans, or think they are nice, but need a few more vamps and better discipline cards, go crazy on those cards. They are great. Bleu

>>> Fida'i Assamite 2 >>> Anwar Assamite 4 >>> Parmenides Assamite 4 >>> Badr al-Budur Assamite 5 >>> Zahir, Hand of the Silsila Assamite 6 >>> Fatima al-Faqadi Assamite 8 >>> Qadir ul-Ghani Assamite 9 >Theo Bell Brujah 7 <<<<<<<<< WHOA!!! In art and power >Julian Sanders !Brujah 6 >>> Celine Chevalier Followers of Set 3 >>> Aabt Kindred Followers of Set 4 >>> Count Ormonde Followers of Set 5 Sir Marriot D'Urban Followers of Set 5 >>> Hesha Ruhadze Followers of Set 6 Samat Ramal-Ra-Archon Followers of Set 6 >>> Qufur am-Heru Followers of Set 7 >>> Danny Larkshill Followers of Set 7 Qufur am-Heru Followers of Set 7 Sarrasine Followers of Set 7 Intisar Followers of Set 8 Khay'tall, Snake of Eden Followers of Set 8 Nefertiti Followers of Set 10 Ramona Gangrel 4 >Paul DiCarlo, The Alpha Giovanni 2 >Marciana Giovanni, Investigator Giovanni 2 >>> Chas Giovanni Tello Giovanni 4 >Isabel Giovanni Giovanni 5 Gillespi Giovanni Giovanni 7 >Marianna Giovanni 8 >>> Ambrogino Giovanni Giovanni 9 >Silvia Giovanni Giovanni 10 >>> Anatole, Prophet of Gehenna Malkavian 8 >Theron !Malkavian 8 >>> Christianus Lionel, The Mad Chronicler !Nosferatu 6 >>> Anka, Priestess of Thorns Ravnos 4 >>> Khalil Ravanna Ravnos 5 >>> Ghivran Dalaal, The Dead God Ravnos 5 Ankla Hotep Ravnos 9 >Ivan Krenyenko Ravnos 10 >>> Spider-Killer Ravnos 10 >Victoria Ash Toreador 6 >>> Melisande !Toreador 9 >>> Goratrix !Tremere 10 Hannigan !TRemere 5 (Go !Tremere!) >>> Gustav Mallenhous !Ventrue 8 >>> >>> Amria Common Chimerstry Combat >>> Baleful Doll Common Necromancy Equipment >Banner of Neutrality Common? Reaction >>> Blackmail Common Obfuscate Action >>> Blood Clots Common Quietus Action >Call of the Hungry Dead Common Necromancy Action Modifier Canopic Jar Serpentis Equipment >>> Clandestine Contract Common Assamite Action >>> Contingency Planning Common Master >>> Dagon's Call Common Quietus Combat >Daemonic Possession Rare Necromancy Action >>> Dismemberment of Osiris Rare Serpentis Action >>> Draba Common Chimerstry Action/Reaction >>> Ecstasy Common Serpentis Reaction >>> Enticement Common Serpentis Action Extortion Serpentis Reaction >>> Exuding Blood Common Quietus Combat >Felix "Fix" Hessian Rare? Giovanni Ally >Final Nights, The Common? Political Action >>> Free States Rant Common Political Action >>> Garrote Common Equipment >>> Grasp the Ghostly Common Necromancy Action >Guard Duty ???? Action >>> Haunt Common Necromancy Action >>> Honor the Elders Common Political Action >Jake Washington (Hunter) Rare? Unique Master >>> Jones, The Common Serpentis Combat >>> Khobar Towers, Al-Khubar Rare F. of Set Master >>> King of the Mountain Common Fortitude Combat >Masquer (Wraith) Common Necromancy Retainer >>> Meat Hook Common Equipment >>> Mirror Image Common Chimerstry Action Modifier/Combat Patshiv Ravnos Action Perfect Clarity Thaumaturgy Action Modifier Priestess of Sekhmet Common FoS Retainer [ quoted text not captured ] Week of Nightmares Ravnos Master [ quoted text not captured ]

"kuquami" <kuq...@hotmail.com> wrote > The Ravnos seem to be quite powerful now, even if the > Path of Paradox seems not to have been printed. I got one. It was surprisingly *not* in the starter where it seemed to be sorely needed, but it does exist. It's art is quite interesting too I might add. Cheers, WES

Note: Full cardtexts of cards in my possession are appended to the end of this message. Stop reading at "Zillah's Valley" in the name-only list if you don't want to see these. I've converted the list to semicolon delimited form. kuquami (Pierre leRunigo) and Halcyan2 contributed anything not marked with an asterisk (*). In article <20010609231514...@ng-mi1.aol.com>, Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> wrote: Fida'i; Assamite; 2 Anwar; Assamite; 4 Parmenides; Assamite; 4 Badr al-Budur; Assamite; 5 *Yusuf, Scribe of Alamut; Assamite; 5 Zahir, Hand of the Silsila; Assamite; 6 Fatima al-Faqadi; Assamite; 8 Qadir ul-Ghani; Assamite; 9 Theo Bell; Brujah; 7 Julian Sanders; !Brujah; 6 Celine Chevalier; Followers of Set; 3 Aabt Kindred; Followers of Set; 4 Count Ormonde; Followers of Set; 5 Sir Marriot D'Urban; Followers of Set; 5 Hesha Ruhadze; Followers of Set; 6 Samat Ramal-Ra-Archon; Followers of Set; 6 Danny Larkshill; Followers of Set; 7 Qufur am-Heru; Followers of Set; 7 Sarrasine; Followers of Set; 7 Intisar; Followers of Set; 8 Khay'tall, Snake of Eden; Followers of Set; 8 Nefertiti; Followers of Set; 10 Ramona; Gangrel; 4 Paul DiCarlo, The Alpha; Giovanni; 2 Marciana Giovanni, Investigator ; Giovanni; 2 Chas Giovanni Tello; Giovanni; 4 Isabel Giovanni; Giovanni; 5 Gillespi Giovanni; Giovanni; 7 Marianna Giovanni; Giovanni; 8 *Pochtli; Giovanni; 8 Ambrogino; Giovanni; Giovanni; 9 Silvia Giovanni; Giovanni; 10 Anatole, Prophet of Gehenna; Malkavian; 8 Theron; !Malkavian; 8 Christianus Lionel The Mad Chronicler; !Nosferatu; 6 Anka, Priestess of Thorns; Ravnos; 4 Khalil Ravana; Ravnos; 5 Ghivran Dalaal, The Dead God; Ravnos; 5 *Gabrin; Ravnos; 8 Ankla Hotep; Ravnos; 9 Ivan Krenyenko; Ravnos; 10 Spider-Killer; Ravnos; 10 *Ezmerelda; Ravnos; 11 Victoria Ash; Toreador; 6 Melisande; !Toreador; 9 *Aisling Sturbridge; Tremere; 5 Goratrix; !Tremere; 10 Hannigan; !Tremere; 5 Gustav Mallenhous; !Ventrue; 8 *Amam the Devourer (Bane Mummy); Rare; Followers of Set; Ally [ quoted text not captured ] *Pseudo-Blindness; Rare?; Chimerstry; Reaction Puppeteer (Wraith); Rare; Necromancy; Ally Reality; Common?; Chimerstry; Action *Red Herring; ????; Chimerstry; Action Modifier Reinforcements; Rare; Political Action Relentless Pursuit; Common; Potence; Combat Save Face; ????; Combat Scorpion's Touch; Common; Quietus; Combat Sensory Overload; Common?; Chimerstry; Action Shambling Horde; Common; Necromancy; Ally Shilmulo Deception; Rare? Chimerstry; Reaction Skin of the Adder; Common; Serpentis; Combat Sniper Rifle; Rare; Equipment *Starshell Grenade Launcher; Rare?; Equipment Stutter-Step; Common; Celerity; Combat Succulent Vitae; Common; Quietus; Action Modifier Summoning; The; Common; Presence; Action Summon Soul; Common; Necromancy; Action Thin Blood; Common; Quietus; Combat Thrones Crumble; Common; Serpentis; Action Tower of London; Rare; Giovanni; Master Tortured Confessions; Common; Combat Treasured Samadji; Rare; Ravnos; Equipment Vascular Explosion; Common; Quietus; Combat Veil of Silence; Common; Quietus; Reaction Venenation; Common; Serpentis; Action Modifier Venericorum Artum Sanguis; Rare; Equipment Venetian Conference; Common?; Giovanni; Reaction Week of Nightmares; Ravnos; Master Zillah's Valley; Rare?; Master CARD TEXTS FOLLOW Vampires First: Yusuf, Scribe of Alamut 5 Assamite aus CEL obf qui Independent: If Yusuf successfully performs an action to equip with an equipment that requires an Assamite, untap him at the end of the turn (Blood Cursed) Sir Marriot D'Urban 5 Followers of Set aus obf PRE ser Independent Marcianna Giovanni, Investigator 2 Giovanni dom Independent: Bleed actions cost Marciana an additional blood. Tap Marciana and choose a non-Sabbat vampire to allow that vampire to burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept. Pochtli 8 Giovanni cel dom NEC OBF POT Independent: Pochtli may move up to two cards from your ash heap to your library as a +1 stealth action. Shuffle your library afterward. Gabrin 8 Ravnos ANI CHI dom for Independent: Cards that require Chimerstry cost Gabrin 1 less blood to play. Gabrin can tap an ally or younger vampire as a +1 stealth D action. Ankla Hotep 9 Ravnos CHI FOR OBF PRE pro Independent: Rescuing Ankla from torpor costs 2 less blood. Ankla gets one optional press each combat. Ezmerelda 11 ANI CHI dom FOR PRE tha Independent: Ezmerelda has 2 votes. If Ezmerelda is ready during your untap phase, you may remove her from the game to gain 11 pool. +1 bleed. Aisling Sturbridge 5 Tremere AUS dom THA Camarilla: Younger Tremere cannot block Aisling. Library Cards: Amam the Devourer (Bane Mummy) Ally 2 pool Followers of Set Unique mummy with 3 life. 0 bleed, 2 strength. Amam may enter combat with any ready minion controlled by another Methuselah as a D action. Amam may burn a vampire in torpor to gain 1 life as a D action. This does not constitute diablerie. If a minion opposing Amam in combat is burned, Amam gains 1 life. If amam is burned, shuffle him into his owner's library. Amria Combat Chimerstry [chi]: Maneuver, only usable to go to long range. <CHI>: Strike: dodge, with an optional press, only usable to end combat. "Be wary, then; best safety lies in fear." Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act I, Scene 3 Blood Clots Action Quietus 1 blood +1 stealth action. [qui]: D Put this card on a minion controlled by another Methuselah. This minion cannot gain blood or life; any blood or life this minion gains goes to the blod bank instead. Any minion may burn this card as an action. <QUI>: As above, and the minion with this card burns 1 blood or life when this card is burned. "I was sick -- sick unto death with that long agony;" Edgar Allen Poe, The Pit and the Pendulum Canopic Jar Equipment Serpentis [ser]: Choose a ready minion. The bearer gets +1 intercept when attempting to block the chosen minion. When the bearer successfully blocks the chosen minion, he or she can burn this equipment before combat begins to cancel the combat and untap. The action minion is not untapped. <SER>: As above, and the chosen minion burns 1 blood when this equipment is burned. Daemonic Possession Action Necromancy 2 blood [nec]: Only usable when a minion controlled by another Methuselah has been burned since your last turn. Move that minion from his or her owner's ash heap to your ready region, put 1 blood or life from the blood bank on the minion and tap the minion. You now control the minion. <NEC>: As above, but the minion is untapped. Free States Rant Political Action Political Card - Worth 1 vote. Called by any Independent vampire at +1 stealth. Allocate X points among one or more ready vampire (sic), where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more than 3 points can be allocated to a single vampire. Successful referendum means each vampire burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this referendum, titles are worth 1 less vote each (even in the Prisci sub-referendum), and burning the Edge for a vote is worth an additional vote. "Citizens, whatever happens today, through our defeat as well as through our victory, we are going to effect a revolution." Victor Hugo, Les Miserables. Guard Duty Action +2 stealth action. Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen location is the target of a D action (and you control the location), this minion can burn either 1 blood or this card to untap and attempt to bock (sic) with +1 intercept. Honor the Elders Political Action Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. Successful referendum means that each ready vampire with a capacity above 7 gains 1 blood from the blood bank, and each vampire with a capacity above 7 in any uncontrolled region gains 1 blood from the blood bank. Masquer (Wraith) Retainer Necromancy 2 blood Wraith with 1 life. [nec]: Masquer is immune to damage that is not aggravated. The minion with this retainer gets +1 intercept. You may burn this retainer to give any minion +1 intercept. <NEC>: As above, with 2 life. Mirror Image Action Modifier/Combat Chimerstry 1 blood This card can be used as an action modifier or a combat card. [chi]: +1 stealth action. <CHI>: Strike: combat ends. If this vampire was blocked while performing an action other than bleeding, the action continues as if unblocked. Pseudo-Blindness Reaction Chimerstry 1 blood [chi]: Only usable by a vampire attempting to block. Cancel an action modifier that requires Chimerstry or Obfuscate as it is played. <CHI>: As above, and if this vampire successfully blocks this action and combat occurs, the acting minion cannot use any cards that require Chimerstry or Obfuscate during that combat. "My gracious lord, you do forget yourself. These are but shadows, not substantial." Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus Reality Action Chimerstry 3 blood [chi]: D Put Reality on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card cannot be the target of D action, cannot act (except to burn this card), cannot block and cannot cast votes. That vampire can burn Reality as a +1 stealth action. <CHI>: D Move a tapped younger vampire to his or her controller's uncontrolled region. The vampire's blood counters, master cards and minion cards stay with that vampire, with any counters they have on them (those cards are out of play as long as the vampire remains uncontrolled). Red Herring Action Modifier Chimerstry 1 blood [chi]: Only usable when this acting vampire is blocked. Untap the acting vampire, do not tap the blocking minion, and cancel the current action and combat. Take the card played to perform the action (if any) back into your hand. Your vampires cannot attempt the same action again this turn. Discard down to your hand size. <CHI>: As above, but tap the blocking minion. Save Face Combat Usable only by an untapped vampire not involved in the current combat. Only usable during the press step if both combatants are still ready. Choose a younger vampire of the same clan who is involved in the combat. The chosen vampire gets a mandatory press, only usable to continue combat. If the chosen combatant is still ready after the combat ends, he or she gains 1 blood from the blood bank. Only one Save Face may be played each combat. "Better that we should die fighting than be outraged and dishonored. Better to die than to live in slavery." Emmeline Pankhurst Shilmulo Deception Reaction Chimerstry [chi]: Only usable when a minion you control successfully blocks (play before combat). Not usable if the blocking minion played any reaction cards that this vampire could not play. Do not tap the blocking minion; tap this reacting vampire instead. Now this vampire is the blocking vampire (and combat begins as normal). <CHI>: As above, and this vampire gets an optional maneuver during the first round of the resulting combat. Starshell Grenade Launcher Equipment 2 pool Weapon. 1R aggravated damage each strike. Only usable once per combat. Only usable at long range. The minion with this equipment may tap to give the acting minion -1 stealth for the current action. gomi -- There are enough people who have a brain-cell to their credit and yet still disagree with me that I don't feel any need to argue with morons. -- M. Lorton

Philippe Richer wrote: > Not mentionned over there 'cause I don't remember their names, but there are > at least 3 new bane mummies. Also, the Settite starter deck has 2 of those, > but not necessarily the same. I've seen one with and one without Kherebutu. > > Watch out though, there were some problems when they made the starter decks. > One Ravnos deck (out of 8 opened) was missing twelve or so commons, all > replaced by a block of copies of the same vampire. At the precon I was at, the setttite seems to have problems with starter consistancy. My deck had 1 Tongue of the Serpant, the next guy had 3. I also did not have any mummies at all! Seems that the collating of decks had a several glitches. Raille

go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote in message news:<9fv0nu$295i$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com>... > Note: Full cardtexts of cards in my possession are appended to the end > of this message. Stop reading at "Zillah's Valley" in the name-only > list if you don't want to see these. > > I've converted the list to semicolon delimited form. > > kuquami (Pierre leRunigo) and Halcyan2 contributed anything not > marked with an asterisk (*). > > In article <20010609231514...@ng-mi1.aol.com>, > Halcyan 2 <halc...@aol.com> wrote: > > Fida'i; Assamite; 2 > Anwar; Assamite; 4 > Parmenides; Assamite; 4 > Badr al-Budur; Assamite; 5 > *Yusuf, Scribe of Alamut; Assamite; 5 > Zahir, Hand of the Silsila; Assamite; 6 Jalal Sayad; Assamite; 6 > Fatima al-Faqadi; Assamite; 8 > Qadir ul-Ghani; Assamite; 9 Tegyrius Vizier; Assamite; 9 Aziz, Dammar of Istanbul; Assamite; 10 Ur-Shulgi; Assamite; 11 > Theo Bell; Brujah; 7 > Julian Sanders; !Brujah; 6 > Celine Chevalier; Followers of Set; 3 > Aabt Kindred; Followers of Set; 4 > Count Ormonde; Followers of Set; 5 > Sir Marriot D'Urban; Followers of Set; 5 > Hesha Ruhadze; Followers of Set; 6 > Samat Ramal-Ra-Archon; Followers of Set; 6 > Danny Larkshill; Followers of Set; 7 > Qufur am-Heru; Followers of Set; 7 > Sarrasine; Followers of Set; 7 > Intisar; Followers of Set; 8 > Khay'tall, Snake of Eden; Followers of Set; 8 > Nefertiti; Followers of Set; 10 > Ramona; Gangrel; 4 Max Lowell; !Gangrel; 3 > Paul DiCarlo, The Alpha; Giovanni; 2 > Marciana Giovanni, Investigator ; Giovanni; 2 > Chas Giovanni Tello; Giovanni; 4 > Isabel Giovanni; Giovanni; 5 Andrea Giovanni; Giovanni; 7 [ quoted text not captured ] Brigitte Gebauer (Wraith); Giovanni; Ally > Call of the Hungry Dead; Common; Necromancy; Action Modifier > Canopic Jar; Serpentis; Equipment > Clandestine Contract; Common; Assamite; Action > Contingency Planning; Common; Master > Dagon's Call; Common; Quietus; Combat > Daemonic Possession ; Rare; Necromancy; Action > Dismemberment of Osiris; Rare; Serpentis; Action > Draba; Common; Chimerstry; Action/Reaction > Ecstasy; Common; Serpentis; Reaction Ecstatic Agony; Rare; Auspex; Action > Enticement; Common; Serpentis; Action > Extortion; Serpentis; Reaction > Exuding Blood; Common; Quietus; Combat > Felix "Fix" Hessian ; Rare? ; Giovanni; Ally > Final Nights, The; Common?; Political Action > Free States Rant; Common; Political Action > Garrote; Common; Equipment > Grasp the Ghostly; Common; Necromancy Action > Guard Duty; ????; Action > Haunt; Common; Necromancy; Action > Honor the Elders; Common; Political Action > Jake Washington (Hunter); Rare?; Unique Master > Jones, The; Common; Serpentis; Combat > Khobar Towers, Al-Khubar; Rare; F. of Set; Master > King of the Mountain; Common; Fortitude; Combat Lupine (+ something); ???; Master > Masquer (Wraith); Common; Necromancy; Retainer > Meat Hook; Common; Equipment > Mirror Image; Common; Chimerstry; Action Modifier/Combat > Patshiv; Ravnos; Action > Perfect Clarity; Thaumaturgy; Action Modifier > Priestess of Sekhmet; Common; FoS Retainer > Provision of the Silsila; Rare?; Assamite; Action Modifier/Reaction > *Pseudo-Blindness; Rare?; Chimerstry; Reaction > Puppeteer (Wraith); Rare; Necromancy; Ally Qetu the Evil Doer (Bane Mummy); Followers of Set; Ally > Reality; Common?; Chimerstry; Action > *Red Herring; ????; Chimerstry; Action Modifier > Reinforcements; Rare; Political Action > Relentless Pursuit; Common; Potence; Combat Sargon Fragment, The; Rare?; Equipment > Save Face; ????; Combat > Scorpion's Touch; Common; Quietus; Combat > Sensory Overload; Common?; Chimerstry; Action > Shambling Horde; Common; Necromancy; Ally Shilmulo Deception; Uncommon? Chimerstry; Reaction > Skin of the Adder; Common; Serpentis; Combat > Sniper Rifle; Rare; Equipment *Starshell Grenade Launcher; Common?; Equipment > Stutter-Step; Common; Celerity; Combat > Succulent Vitae; Common; Quietus; Action Modifier > Summoning; The; Common; Presence; Action > Summon Soul; Common; Necromancy; Action Tajdid; ???; ???; Master? (card is mentioned in Ur-Shulgi's ability) > Thin Blood; Common; Quietus; Combat > Thrones Crumble; Common; Serpentis; Action > Tower of London; Rare; Giovanni; Master > Tortured Confessions; Common; Combat > Treasured Samadji; Rare; Ravnos; Equipment > Vascular Explosion; Common; Quietus; Combat > Veil of Silence; Common; Quietus; Reaction > Venetation; Common; Serpentis; Action Modifier > Venericorum Artum Sanguis; Rare; Equipment > Venetian Conference; Common?; Giovanni; Reaction Week of Nightmares; Rare; Ravnos; Master > Zillah's Valley; Rare?; Master > > CARD TEXTS FOLLOW The Sargon Fragment Equipment 1 pool Unique Equipment. The vampire with this equipment gains superior Necromancy.This vampire can move a library card from your ash heap to your hand as an action that costs 1 blood. Discard down to your maximum hand size afterward Ecstatic Agony Action Auspex +1 stealth action. (aus) Put this card on this acting vampire. Each round of combat this vampire gets +X strength, where X is the amout of damage successfully inflicted on this vampire in the previous round of combat. (AUS) As above, and once per combat this vampire may press to conitnue combat if any damage has been successfullyinflicted on him or her in the current round.

well i also played a perrelease vampire.in the netherlands the first...cool something we had that you didn't i'll not herer of completion capacity 11 ravnos ezmiralda i think very cool special she can golconda herself,and a bunch o skills.(with auggie,kind of makes me think each of the independant clans has an 11 capacity vamp.)Rare(yeah rare vamps) 2 new bane mumies (kerebutu was already in ancient hearts) one is an attacking one an the other can untap himself durning your turn. Golconda towers(not the real name but its a good discription),master setti only,during your utap phase.tap remover from the game vamp/ally gain capacity/poolcost path of bones/paradox(rare..i sure hope the blood and typhone aren't rare) nice hunter ally inflicts +2 strenght dammage(i think) can attack as a D action kick one of your vamps for 2(ala talbots chain saw) ex nihilio(or something like that),Nec,action +1 stealth action put on vamp.it gets +1 stealth on each action.can't be bashed,but van't bash(i think)except by agevated.put a counter on it during your turns.counter= capacity spalt vamp killed.can burn during your turn(i think,you can burn it i'm just not sure when) wraith ally,pupeteer can take an action to take controle of a vamp with capacity 5< or ally. 1 pool,1 life visit from capurin,master draw 4 cards first 4 times time you play a card do not replace cards.but discing is ok.(i'm not sure if it cost anything) Jan pieterzoon.capacity 7 ventrue. DOM,PRE.for (i think) when ready each methusela has -1 hadsize. capacity 2 giovaniemarciana giovanie dom,can tap to rumor mill a vamp. tower of london(master 2 pool,loaction) tap to gain 1 pool when a necomancy action is succesfull. thats a i can think of now most of these are rare.

Hi all, These are extras to be added in the list. Haakon Mortensen Gangrel cap.8 ANI, PRO, FOR, During your untap phase, you can move 1 blood from Haakon to any Gangrel or !Gangrel in your uncontrolled region. Haakon can take an action to move one blood from the blood bank to any untapped vampire. Spleen, Georgio Gutterpunk Ravnos cap.2 ani, chi, If Spleen is blocked by an older vampire, he burns i blood (before any combat begins, if any). Sennuwy, The Promoter Ravnos cap.4 ani, for, chi Wendell Delburton (Hunter) Ally cost 3 Unique mortal with 3 life. 0 strength, 0 bleed. Wendell may strike for 2R damage. He gets one optionnal maneuvereach combat and inflict +2 damage with melee weapon. He may enter combat with any minion controlled by another Methuselah as a D action. During your untap phase, if Wendell has less than 3 life, add 1 life. During your untap phase, a ready vampire you control takes 2 damage (not preventable). ??? (bane mummy). Other than Amam and Qetu. Follower of Set. Lupine Assault Master cost 5 DO NOT REPLACE UNTIL YOUR INFLUENCE PHASE Each methuselah (including you) discards 5 cards of his or her choice, then draws back up to his or her hand size. Only one Lupin Assault may be played in a game. Fata Amria Chimerstry Combat cost 1 blood Same as Amria???

Here's the full text of the rares I got : Treasured Samadji Equipment, 1 pool, Ravnos Unique Equipment. The Ravnos with this equipment gets +1 bleed and may dodge as a strike once per combat. Reinforcements Political Action Political Card-Worth 1 Vote. Called by any titled vampire at +1 stealth. Choose one or more Methuselahs. Successful referendum means each chosen Methuselah selects up to 3 library cards from his or her ash heap and shuffles them into his or her library. Remove this card from the game, even if the action is canceled or blocked or the referendum fails. Khobar Towers, Al-Khubar Master, 2 pool, Follower of Set Master: Unique Location. Tap during your untap phase to remove a ready minion you control from the game and gain X pool, where X is the capacity of that vampire or the cost of that ally. Venericorum Artum Sanguinis Equipment Unique equipment. The vampire with this equipment has superior Thaumaturgy. Any Tremere or Tremere Antitribu may enter combat with the minion with this equipment as a (D) action. Sniper Rifle Equipment, 2 pool Weapon, Gun. 2R damage each strike. Only usable at long range. If the bearer blocks an action, he or she may set the range for the first round of combat to long; if he or she does so, skip the Determine Range step on the first round, and the bearer must strike with this weapon on the first round. Dismemberment of Osiris Action, 1 blood, Serpentis (D) Burn a titled vampire in torpor. Each ready vampire of the same clan as the titled vampire burns 1 blood. (S) As above, and the controller of the titled vampire burns 1 pool.

In message <e566b46.01061...@posting.google.com>, kuquami <kuq...@hotmail.com> writes >Khobar Towers, Al-Khubar >Master, 2 pool, Follower of Set >Master: Unique Location. Tap during your untap phase to remove a ready >minion you control from the game and gain X pool, where X is the >capacity of that vampire or the cost of that ally. Yikes. Swarm Embrace Setite deck, along with new vampires. And you can steal any of their vampires, rather than picking someone useful to you - because you can just get free pool! Yikes! -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D "You reinstall Dial-Up Networking. The Elf screams and becomes EBD690ECD7A1F an icon. *** CONGRATULATIONS! *** You completed the BT Internet B457CA213D7E6 Helpdesk training course in 15 out of a possible 9000 moves." 68C3695D623D5D

Tajdid; Rare; Assamite; Master; No Pool cost; For the remainder of the game the blood curse no longer prevents Assamites from committing diablerie. Only one Tajdid can be played in a game. "Roger Carhult" <rogc...@student.luth.se> a écrit dans le message news: 1b3db623.01061...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

> ??? (bane mummy). Other than Amam and Qetu. > Follower of Set. > I think he's called Tutu, the Doubly Evil One (who comes up with this?) He has 1 bleed, 2 strength, can dodge as a strike (once/combat) and can untap once during your Minion Phase. And i think he can Burn vamps in torpor.

go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: > Puppeteer (Wraith); Rare; Necromancy; Ally Anyone have text for this card? If I recall correctly, this was the name one of one of the CalTech playtest cards. I'm curious to see how it compares to what they had. Regards, Noal

I've got it: Puppeteer (Wraith) 1 life 1 strengh, 0 bleed; basic necro: the puppeteer can give you control of an ally or a vampire with capacity of less than 5 for the remainder of your turn as a D action; Sup Necro: as above with 2 life "Noal McDonald" <dhar...@my-deja.com> a écrit dans le message news: bb705c59.0106...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

In message <bb705c59.0106...@posting.google.com>, Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> writes >Anyone have text for this card? If I recall correctly, this was the name >one of one of the CalTech playtest cards. I'm curious to see how it >compares to what they had. At one point, a couple of us with copies of Wraith sat down and came up a few appropriate Wraith 'clans' to make the retainers into. I recall Monitor, certainly, as I named that one. [ quoted text not captured ]

go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >CARD TEXTS FOLLOW >Vampires First: > >Yusuf, Scribe of Alamut >5 >Assamite >aus CEL obf qui >Independent: If Yusuf successfully performs an action to equip with > an equipment that requires an Assamite, untap him at the end of the > turn (Blood Cursed) They seem to have decided on Auspex as the Assamites fourth discipline (along with Thaum). A perfectly decent vampire - the special might even come into effect some time. >Sir Marriot D'Urban >5 >Followers of Set >aus obf PRE ser >Independent Aus/obf/pre is becoming a strong combination... >Marcianna Giovanni, Investigator >2 >Giovanni >dom >Independent: Bleed actions cost Marciana an additional blood. Tap > Marciana and choose a non-Sabbat vampire to allow that vampire to > burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept. A good way to do yet another 2-cap dom vampire without boosting dom-weenies even more. Interesting special. >Pochtli >8 >Giovanni >cel dom NEC OBF POT >Independent: Pochtli may move up to two cards from your ash heap to your >library as a +1 stealth action. Shuffle your library afterward. The special could be good in the endgame. Obf seems to be fourth discipline for the Giovanni... >Gabrin >8 >Ravnos >ANI CHI dom for >Independent: Cards that require Chimerstry cost Gabrin 1 less blood to >play. Gabrin can tap an ally or younger vampire as a +1 stealth D action. ...while Dom gets even more the fourth discipline of the Ravnos. Nice specials, both of them (but especially the first). >Ankla Hotep >9 >Ravnos >CHI FOR OBF PRE pro >Independent: Rescuing Ankla from torpor costs 2 less blood. Ankla gets one >optional press each combat. Can you say "Force of will/Daring the dawn/Resue for free"? >Ezmerelda >11 >ANI CHI dom FOR PRE tha >Independent: Ezmerelda has 2 votes. If Ezmerelda is ready during your >untap phase, you may remove her from the game to gain 11 pool. +1 bleed. Yikes!! What's her backstory? Minion Tap/Remove from game seems an obvious choice. She fits into both Ventrue and Toreador bloat decks, too. >Aisling Sturbridge >5 >Tremere >AUS dom THA >Camarilla: Younger Tremere cannot block Aisling. Good. >Library Cards: > >Amam the Devourer (Bane Mummy) >Ally >2 pool >Followers of Set >Unique mummy with 3 life. 0 bleed, 2 strength. >Amam may enter combat with any ready minion controlled by another >Methuselah as a D action. Amam may burn a vampire in torpor to gain 1 life >as a D action. This does not constitute diablerie. If a minion opposing >Amam in combat is burned, Amam gains 1 life. If amam is burned, shuffle >him into his owner's library. It's an ally, and it's good! Colour me surprised! >Amria >Combat >Chimerstry >[chi]: Maneuver, only usable to go to long range. ><CHI>: Strike: dodge, with an optional press, only usable to end combat. >"Be wary, then; best safety lies in fear." >Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act I, Scene 3 OK in a defensive or ranged Ravnos deck, I suppose. >Blood Clots >Action >Quietus >1 blood >+1 stealth action. >[qui]: D Put this card on a minion controlled by another Methuselah. This >minion cannot gain blood or life; any blood or life this minion gains goes >to the blod bank instead. Any minion may burn this card as an action. ><QUI>: As above, and the minion with this card burns 1 blood or life >when this card is burned. >"I was sick -- sick unto death with that long agony;" >Edgar Allen Poe, The Pit and the Pendulum I'm in doubt. At least it messes a little with bloat. >Canopic Jar >Equipment >Serpentis >[ser]: Choose a ready minion. The bearer gets +1 intercept when attempting >to block the chosen minion. When the bearer successfully blocks the chosen >minion, he or she can burn this equipment before combat begins to cancel >the combat and untap. The action minion is not untapped. ><SER>: As above, and the chosen minion burns 1 blood when this equipment >is burned. Nice! Intercept _and_ end combat. Just what the Setites need. >Daemonic Possession >Action >Necromancy >2 blood >[nec]: Only usable when a minion controlled by another Methuselah has been >burned since your last turn. Move that minion from his or her owner's ash >heap to your ready region, put 1 blood or life from the blood bank on the >minion and tap the minion. You now control the minion. ><NEC>: As above, but the minion is untapped. Fun if it works, I suppose. I'd rather trust in graverobbing, though. >Free States Rant >Political Action >Political Card - Worth 1 vote. Called by any Independent vampire at >+1 stealth. Allocate X points among one or more ready vampire (sic), >where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more >than 3 points can be allocated to a single vampire. Successful referendum >means each vampire burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this >referendum, titles are worth 1 less vote each (even in the Prisci >sub-referendum), and burning the Edge for a vote is worth an additional >vote. >"Citizens, whatever happens today, through our defeat as well as through >our victory, we are going to effect a revolution." >Victor Hugo, Les Miserables. A perfectlyu decent vote card, with the bonus that it can be made to work most of the times - just pick someone with few votes. Look out for the combo with Banishment! >Guard Duty >Action >+2 stealth action. >Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen >location is the target of a D action (and you control the location), this >minion can burn either 1 blood or this card to untap and attempt to >bock (sic) with +1 intercept. Er... I don't think so. >Honor the Elders >Political Action >Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. >Successful referendum means that each ready vampire with a capacity above >7 gains 1 blood from the blood bank, and each vampire with a capacity >above 7 in any uncontrolled region gains 1 blood from the blood bank. Nice, but can you make sure you get the most out of it? I would imagine that this vote would tend to pass most of the time, though... >Masquer (Wraith) >Retainer >Necromancy >2 blood >Wraith with 1 life. >[nec]: Masquer is immune to damage that is not aggravated. The minion with >this retainer gets +1 intercept. You may burn this retainer to give any >minion +1 intercept. ><NEC>: As above, with 2 life. Too expensive. Although Path of Ashes (or whatever) could help. >Mirror Image >Action Modifier/Combat >Chimerstry >1 blood >This card can be used as an action modifier or a combat card. >[chi]: +1 stealth action. ><CHI>: Strike: combat ends. If this vampire was blocked while performing >an action other than bleeding, the action continues as if unblocked. Since the Obtenebration version is playable, this should work too (and votes are OK!) >Pseudo-Blindness >Reaction >Chimerstry >1 blood >[chi]: Only usable by a vampire attempting to block. Cancel an action >modifier that requires Chimerstry or Obfuscate as it is played. ><CHI>: As above, and if this vampire successfully blocks this action >and combat occurs, the acting minion cannot use any cards that require >Chimerstry or Obfuscate during that combat. >"My gracious lord, you do forget yourself. These are but shadows, >not substantial." >Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus A bit of funky bonus intercept. Not too shabby. >Reality >Action >Chimerstry >3 blood >[chi]: D Put Reality on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card >cannot be the target of D action, cannot act (except to burn this >card), cannot block and cannot cast votes. That vampire can burn >Reality as a +1 stealth action. ><CHI>: D Move a tapped younger vampire to his or her controller's >uncontrolled region. The vampire's blood counters, master cards >and minion cards stay with that vampire, with any counters they have on >them (those cards are out of play as long as the vampire remains >uncontrolled). Weak, weak! Is this supposed to replace Sensory Deprivation? It's like the relationship between Derange and The Haunting. >Red Herring >Action Modifier >Chimerstry >1 blood >[chi]: Only usable when this acting vampire is blocked. Untap the acting >vampire, do not tap the blocking minion, and cancel the current action and >combat. Take the card played to perform the action (if any) back into your >hand. Your vampires cannot attempt the same action again this turn. Discard >down to your hand size. ><CHI>: As above, but tap the blocking minion. GodDAMN!! Superior with Path of Paradox is just *evil*. >Save Face >Combat >Usable only by an untapped vampire not involved in the current combat. >Only usable during the press step if both combatants are still ready. >Choose a younger vampire of the same clan who is involved in the combat. >The chosen vampire gets a mandatory press, only usable to continue >combat. If the chosen combatant is still ready after the combat ends, he >or she gains 1 blood from the blood bank. Only one Save Face may be played >each combat. >"Better that we should die fighting than be outraged and dishonored. >Better to die than to live in slavery." >Emmeline Pankhurst Pretty good for a disciplinelss combat card. >Shilmulo Deception >Reaction >Chimerstry >[chi]: Only usable when a minion you control successfully blocks (play >before combat). Not usable if the blocking minion played any reaction >cards that this vampire could not play. Do not tap the blocking minion; >tap this reacting vampire instead. Now this vampire is the blocking vampire >(and combat begins as normal). ><CHI>: As above, and this vampire gets an optional maneuver during the >first round of the resulting combat. Hmm... You could build one intercept vampire and one combat vampire, intercept with one and fight with the other. >Starshell Grenade Launcher >Equipment >2 pool >Weapon. 1R aggravated damage each strike. Only usable once per combat. >Only usable at long range. The minion with this equipment may tap to >give the acting minion -1 stealth for the current action. Interesting. More disciplineless intercept. ----------------------------------------------------------- Johan Lundstrom <jo...@algonet.se> "Knowledge is power. Power corrupts."

In message <3b241381....@news.algonet.se>, Johan Lundstrom <jo...@algonet.se> writes >They seem to have decided on Auspex as the Assamites fourth discipline >(along with Thaum). A perfectly decent vampire - the special might >even come into effect some time. It's kind of useful. It gives them access to some intercept and some bounce, if you want it. > >Sir Marriot D'Urban > >5 > >Followers of Set > >aus obf PRE ser > >Independent > >Aus/obf/pre is becoming a strong combination... Though difficult to know quite how to use. Pulse, stealth-ed bleeds via Presence? Or Stealthed votes with Bewitching and Telepathic Vote Counting? Ooh, scratch that. That sounds *nice*. > >Gabrin > >8 > >Ravnos > >ANI CHI dom for >>Independent: Cards that require Chimerstry cost Gabrin 1 less blood to >>play. Gabrin can tap an ally or younger vampire as a +1 stealth D action. > >...while Dom gets even more the fourth discipline of the Ravnos. Nice >specials, both of them (but especially the first). Again, useful. It gives the Assamites a focus. They could do the "bruise" part of bruise and bleed, but couldn't really, really go on the all out assault easily. (Path of Paradox helps Massively Horrid decks, of course, now.) > >Ezmerelda > >11 > >ANI CHI dom FOR PRE tha >>Independent: Ezmerelda has 2 votes. If Ezmerelda is ready during your >>untap phase, you may remove her from the game to gain 11 pool. +1 bleed. > >Yikes!! What's her backstory? Minion Tap/Remove from game seems an >obvious choice. She fits into both Ventrue and Toreador bloat decks, >too. Minion Tap would be in the master phase, and then you'd need the untap phase after that for the Golconda. It gives you a fair amount of time to attack her, or neuter her some other way. Seeds of Corruption, anyone? *grin* >>Blood Clots >>Action >>Quietus >>1 blood >>+1 stealth action. >>[qui]: D Put this card on a minion controlled by another Methuselah. This >>minion cannot gain blood or life; any blood or life this minion gains goes >>to the blod bank instead. Any minion may burn this card as an action. >><QUI>: As above, and the minion with this card burns 1 blood or life >>when this card is burned. > >I'm in doubt. At least it messes a little with bloat. Certainly. And that's a problem for the Assamites. They have problems going forward - unlike, say, the Brujah who can drop half a dozen Legal Manipulations in a deck for some bleed-bite to counter-act the bloat. >>Daemonic Possession >>Action >>Necromancy >>2 blood >>[nec]: Only usable when a minion controlled by another Methuselah has been >>burned since your last turn. Move that minion from his or her owner's ash >>heap to your ready region, put 1 blood or life from the blood bank on the >>minion and tap the minion. You now control the minion. >><NEC>: As above, but the minion is untapped. > >Fun if it works, I suppose. I'd rather trust in graverobbing, though. *Burned* is the operative term. With a few things like Release the Shackled Soul against *good* allies, it could be fun. >>Starshell Grenade Launcher >>Equipment >>2 pool >>Weapon. 1R aggravated damage each strike. Only usable once per combat. >>Only usable at long range. The minion with this equipment may tap to >>give the acting minion -1 stealth for the current action. > >Interesting. More disciplineless intercept. True, but it's based around tapping this vampire - so they can't be the one attempting the block. That said, it can be traded around the table. Nicely done. [ quoted text not captured ]

jo...@algonet.se (Johan Lundstrom) wrote: > > >>CARD TEXTS FOLLOW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Guard Duty >>Action >>+2 stealth action. >>Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen >>location is the target of a D action (and you control the location), this >>minion can burn either 1 blood or this card to untap and attempt to >>bock (sic) with +1 intercept. > >Er... I don't think so. But so nice to defend things like Powerbases... >>Honor the Elders >>Political Action >>Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any vampire at +1 stealth. >>Successful referendum means that each ready vampire with a capacity above >>7 gains 1 blood from the blood bank, and each vampire with a capacity >>above 7 in any uncontrolled region gains 1 blood from the blood bank. > >Nice, but can you make sure you get the most out of it? I would >imagine that this vote would tend to pass most of the time, though... This expansion does give some nice ways of putting blood on various vamps in the inactive region. >>Masquer (Wraith) >>Retainer >>Necromancy >>2 blood >>Wraith with 1 life. >>[nec]: Masquer is immune to damage that is not aggravated. The minion with >>this retainer gets +1 intercept. You may burn this retainer to give any >>minion +1 intercept. >><NEC>: As above, with 2 life. > >Too expensive. Although Path of Ashes (or whatever) could help. Too expensive??? It's for a clan with only one intercept card, and one often used for the stealth it gives! (yes, I deliberately erased Eyes of the Dead from existence as a decent intercept card ;-) >>Reality >>Action >>Chimerstry >>3 blood >>[chi]: D Put Reality on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card >>cannot be the target of D action, cannot act (except to burn this >>card), cannot block and cannot cast votes. That vampire can burn >>Reality as a +1 stealth action. >><CHI>: D Move a tapped younger vampire to his or her controller's >>uncontrolled region. The vampire's blood counters, master cards >>and minion cards stay with that vampire, with any counters they have on >>them (those cards are out of play as long as the vampire remains >>uncontrolled). > >Weak, weak! Is this supposed to replace Sensory Deprivation? It's like >the relationship between Derange and The Haunting. Nope, they have Sensory Overload as a one turn version of Sensory Deprivation. This card is nice partly due to it's weak Sensory Deprivation effect at inferior, but please do read the superior version again. Hint: think of a vote card that gives the same effect (although Reality's version is more limited). >>Red Herring >>Action Modifier >>Chimerstry >>1 blood >>[chi]: Only usable when this acting vampire is blocked. Untap the acting >>vampire, do not tap the blocking minion, and cancel the current action and >>combat. Take the card played to perform the action (if any) back into your >>hand. Your vampires cannot attempt the same action again this turn. Discard >>down to your hand size. >><CHI>: As above, but tap the blocking minion. > >GodDAMN!! Superior with Path of Paradox is just *evil*. Let me see, I can't do my action this turn, and if I was bleeding, I CAN'T BLEED this turn. So I guess I need to first take any other action, one good enough to want someone to block it. Then I play this card, pay (or not) a blood, and TAP the blocker (at superior), while untapping my vampire. MMM, let me think some more. Why not just use an action that let's me tap a vamp (the one I do need to tap) instead? The chemistry ones usually do MORE than just tap the vamp in question. Sure, I might need some stealth to make it, but I don't need to rely on a blocking attempt to tap the vampire. Basically, this card is a chimestry version, costing a blood, of Change of Target. The superior is nice and taps the blocker. Still, it costs a blood, and it's restricted to chimestry vamps. Nice, but not *evil*. >>Save Face >>Combat >>Usable only by an untapped vampire not involved in the current combat. >>Only usable during the press step if both combatants are still ready. >>Choose a younger vampire of the same clan who is involved in the combat. >>The chosen vampire gets a mandatory press, only usable to continue >>combat. If the chosen combatant is still ready after the combat ends, he >>or she gains 1 blood from the blood bank. Only one Save Face may be played >>each combat. >>"Better that we should die fighting than be outraged and dishonored. >>Better to die than to live in slavery." >>Emmeline Pankhurst > >Pretty good for a disciplinelss combat card. Good for clans with little or no access to press cards. You still need an older untapped vamp of the same clan though. A nice card for Tremere. Nice for a Giovanni Bruise and Bleed decks. Unless you can dodge or Drain the other vamp, the gain 1 blood only gives you back the damage you take from a hand strike. If you CAN dodge, or prevent, the damage, you probably don't play a deck that requires this card. >>Shilmulo Deception >>Reaction >>Chimerstry >>[chi]: Only usable when a minion you control successfully blocks (play >>before combat). Not usable if the blocking minion played any reaction >>cards that this vampire could not play. Do not tap the blocking minion; >>tap this reacting vampire instead. Now this vampire is the blocking vampire >>(and combat begins as normal). >><CHI>: As above, and this vampire gets an optional maneuver during the >>first round of the resulting combat. > >Hmm... You could build one intercept vampire and one combat vampire, >intercept with one and fight with the other. That is a very good card. For better effect, build two or more fighters. Need not be big. A weenie vamp with chimestry and fortitude would be good there. >>Starshell Grenade Launcher >>Equipment >>2 pool >>Weapon. 1R aggravated damage each strike. Only usable once per combat. >>Only usable at long range. The minion with this equipment may tap to >>give the acting minion -1 stealth for the current action. > >Interesting. More disciplineless intercept. Give this equipment to Marcianna Giovanni, Chief Investigator for the Rumor Mill. Tap her to remove 1 stealth from the acting minion AND give a possibility of +1 intercept to someone who tries to block. All that for one tapped vamp of yours. I love this little combo. Can't wait to get a grenade launcher to use it on those pesky setites. And since I didn't see this trick posted here earlier, I'll claim ownership and ask everyone to send me 10¢ in Canadian Tire money everytime you use it. Bleu

In article <3b241381....@news.algonet.se>, Johan Lundstrom <jo...@algonet.se> wrote: >go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: > > >>CARD TEXTS FOLLOW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Marcianna Giovanni, Investigator > >2 > >Giovanni > >dom > >Independent: Bleed actions cost Marciana an additional blood. Tap > > Marciana and choose a non-Sabbat vampire to allow that vampire to > > burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept. > >A good way to do yet another 2-cap dom vampire without boosting >dom-weenies even more. Interesting special. Her special is strong -- she's an un-arsonable (but Rushable) Tabloid, sort of. Very salable intercept. Good token Deflector. > >Gabrin > >8 > >Ravnos > >ANI CHI dom for >>Independent: Cards that require Chimerstry cost Gabrin 1 less blood to >>play. Gabrin can tap an ally or younger vampire as a +1 stealth D action. > >...while Dom gets even more the fourth discipline of the Ravnos. Nice >specials, both of them (but especially the first). The second ability synergizes quite nicely with Freak Drive or Force of Will, of course. > >Amam the Devourer (Bane Mummy) > >Ally > >2 pool > >Followers of Set > >Unique mummy with 3 life. 0 bleed, 2 strength. > >Amam may enter combat with any ready minion controlled by another > >Methuselah as a D action. Amam may burn a vampire in torpor to gain >1 life > >as a D action. This does not constitute diablerie. If a minion >opposing > >Amam in combat is burned, Amam gains 1 life. If amam is burned, >shuffle > >him into his owner's library. >It's an ally, and it's good! Colour me surprised! I'm actually not super-impressed with him. He'll only be hitting for 2, and he's only got 3 life. I guess he's a decent crypto-diablerist if Cloaked, but that's pretty corner-case. I guess, for 2 pool, he beats Hell Hound. But I have a hard time getting all excited about him. >>Amria >>Combat >>Chimerstry >>[chi]: Maneuver, only usable to go to long range. >><CHI>: Strike: dodge, with an optional press, only usable to end combat. >>"Be wary, then; best safety lies in fear." >>Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act I, Scene 3 >OK in a defensive or ranged Ravnos deck, I suppose. Sets up Far Fatuus quite nicely. Also works with Starshell Grenade Launcher, which fits the Ravnos model of intercepting by stealth reduction quite nicely. Although, of course, you can't use the minion with the Starshell to block since he'll be tapped (barring Wakeys). >>Blood Clots >>Action >>Quietus >>1 blood >>+1 stealth action. >>[qui]: D Put this card on a minion controlled by another Methuselah. This >>minion cannot gain blood or life; any blood or life this minion gains goes >>to the blod bank instead. Any minion may burn this card as an action. >><QUI>: As above, and the minion with this card burns 1 blood or life >>when this card is burned. >>"I was sick -- sick unto death with that long agony;" >>Edgar Allen Poe, The Pit and the Pendulum > >I'm in doubt. At least it messes a little with bloat. This was pretty strong at the San Francisco pre-release. It does mess with bloat, and with vampires just rescued from torpor, or anyone who's just plain low. Synergizes well with Free States Rant. >>Canopic Jar >>Equipment >>Serpentis >>[ser]: Choose a ready minion. The bearer gets +1 intercept when attempting >>to block the chosen minion. When the bearer successfully blocks the chosen >>minion, he or she can burn this equipment before combat begins to cancel >>the combat and untap. The action minion is not untapped. >><SER>: As above, and the chosen minion burns 1 blood when this equipment >>is burned. >Nice! Intercept _and_ end combat. Just what the Setites need. Eeh. Too specific for my tastes. The intercept is only from one minion and only good versus one specific minion. I guess it's okay with ser/for, since you can Freak Drive, or have them shipped in to the Pier. >>Daemonic Possession >>Action >>Necromancy >>2 blood >>[nec]: Only usable when a minion controlled by another Methuselah has been >>burned since your last turn. Move that minion from his or her owner's ash >>heap to your ready region, put 1 blood or life from the blood bank on the >>minion and tap the minion. You now control the minion. >><NEC>: As above, but the minion is untapped. >Fun if it works, I suppose. I'd rather trust in graverobbing, though. Given the squads of useful allies introduced in Sabbat War and what we're seeing in FN, Daemonic Possession might be quite nice versus allies instead of Vampires. Both cards are excellent for opportunism, of course. >>Free States Rant >>Political Action >>Political Card - Worth 1 vote. Called by any Independent vampire at >>+1 stealth. Allocate X points among one or more ready vampire (sic), >>where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more >>than 3 points can be allocated to a single vampire. Successful referendum >>means each vampire burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this >>referendum, titles are worth 1 less vote each (even in the Prisci >>sub-referendum), and burning the Edge for a vote is worth an additional >>vote. >>"Citizens, whatever happens today, through our defeat as well as through >>our victory, we are going to effect a revolution." >>Victor Hugo, Les Miserables. >A perfectlyu decent vote card, with the bonus that it can be made to >work most of the times - just pick someone with few votes. Look out >for the combo with Banishment! I'm thinking Foul Blood. I just have to figure out a way to get the Assamites to pass the vote a little more reliably. A little Qui, a little Tha, a little Obf, a little Pre. Suck dry with Free States and Cryptics, force hunts, Foul Blood them into torpor. A thing of beauty. Note also: You can throw this into a Lasombra deck, since Lucita can call it. Not sure what you'd do with it, though. >>Guard Duty >>Action >>+2 stealth action. >>Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen >>location is the target of a D action (and you control the location), this >>minion can burn either 1 blood or this card to untap and attempt to >>bock (sic) with +1 intercept. >Er... I don't think so. I most certainly do. This almost makes Grand Temple of Suck playable, and helps a whole lot of the lame (D) burnable locations from Dark Sovs and, to a lesser extent, Ancient Hearts. Question: Given that we can tap a tapped vampire, we can untap an untapped vampire, yes? Given that, do multiple Guard Duties stack, so that one can be used to untap/block at +1 intercept, then another blood can be burned to a second copy of Guard Duty for a second intercept? Can I do this even if I don't currently need the intercept? I think 'yes' to both, but I'm murky. >>Masquer (Wraith) >>Retainer >>Necromancy >>2 blood >>Wraith with 1 life. >>[nec]: Masquer is immune to damage that is not aggravated. The minion with >>this retainer gets +1 intercept. You may burn this retainer to give any >>minion +1 intercept. >><NEC>: As above, with 2 life. >Too expensive. Although Path of Ashes (or whatever) could help. You have to think combos. This guy makes Ambrosius really shine, not to mention Compel the Spirit. And you can sell the intercept, as with Marcianna. >>Reality >>Action >>Chimerstry >>3 blood >>[chi]: D Put Reality on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card >>cannot be the target of D action, cannot act (except to burn this >>card), cannot block and cannot cast votes. That vampire can burn >>Reality as a +1 stealth action. >><CHI>: D Move a tapped younger vampire to his or her controller's >>uncontrolled region. The vampire's blood counters, master cards >>and minion cards stay with that vampire, with any counters they have on >>them (those cards are out of play as long as the vampire remains >>uncontrolled). >Weak, weak! Is this supposed to replace Sensory Deprivation? It's like >the relationship between Derange and The Haunting. Strong, strong, I think you mean. Note: a) It only takes inferior chi to affect a vampire. b) unlike SensDep, the victim cannot vote. c) (note this one carefully) Superior level is Banishment! Without having to pass a vote! This is strong. Superior synergizes with Lazar Dobrescu, Trick of Danya, Cairo, and to a lesser extent, Might of the Camarilla. Inferior is excellent in an intercept deck -- once you knock the Realitied vampire into torpor, they're there permanently unless rescued by someone else (and someone else controlled by the same Methuselah, to boot), since they can't attempt to rescue themseves and are untargetable by D actions (such as a rescue attempt from a vampire with a different controller). And it only costs Gabrin 1 blood with Path of Paradox out! gomi -- Yes, I believe but I'd rather not pray What I believe in I'd rather not say, baby

In article <ti8ba0m...@corp.supernews.com>, Philippe Richer <leg...@generation.net> wrote: [starshell grenade launcher] >Give this equipment to Marcianna Giovanni, Chief Investigator for the Rumor >Mill. Tap her to remove 1 stealth from the acting minion AND give a >possibility of +1 intercept to someone who tries to block. All that for one >tapped vamp of yours. Can't tap her for both things, nu? It's tap to do her special, or tap to fire the flare. She canna' change the laws of physics, cap'n. [ quoted text not captured ]

(Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >Philippe Richer <leg...@generation.net> wrote: > >[starshell grenade launcher] > >>Give this equipment to Marcianna Giovanni, Chief Investigator for the Rumor >>Mill. Tap her to remove 1 stealth from the acting minion AND give a >>possibility of +1 intercept to someone who tries to block. All that for one >>tapped vamp of yours. > >Can't tap her for both things, nu? It's tap to do her special, or tap to >fire the flare. She canna' change the laws of physics, cap'n. Are you quite sure of this? I have to buy some screws and I sure could use the Canadian Tire money. Mmmm, what if I untapped her between the two? Maybe with Animalism and Rat's Warning? Well, this is starting to require more and more thought from me to make it work. Consequently, my fee has increased to 15¢ in Canadian Tire money per use of the trick. And why is it that White Wolf's server always seems to be closed at night??? Bleu

> Philippe Richer wrote: > And why is it that White Wolf's server always seems to be closed at night??? The cleaning lady needs to use that plug for the vacuum cleaner. Regards, Noal

leg...@generation.net (Philippe Richer) wrote: >jo...@algonet.se (Johan Lundstrom) wrote: >>>Guard Duty >>Er... I don't think so. > >But so nice to defend things like Powerbases... Good point. >>>Masquer (Wraith) >>Too expensive. Although Path of Ashes (or whatever) could help. > >Too expensive??? It's for a clan with only one intercept card, and one often >used for the stealth it gives! Since the alternative is Sport Bike, yes. >>>Reality >>Weak, weak! Is this supposed to replace Sensory Deprivation? It's like >>the relationship between Derange and The Haunting. > >Nope, they have Sensory Overload as a one turn version of Sensory Deprivation. >This card is nice partly due to it's weak Sensory Deprivation effect at >inferior, but please do read the superior version again. > >Hint: think of a vote card that gives the same effect (although Reality's >version is more limited). Yes. I hear that card doesn't cost 3 blood, and is at stealth. >>>Red Herring >>GodDAMN!! Superior with Path of Paradox is just *evil*. > >Let me see, I can't do my action this turn, and if I was bleeding, I CAN'T >BLEED this turn. So I guess I need to first take any other action, one good >enough to want someone to block it. Then I play this card, pay (or not) a >blood, and TAP the blocker (at superior), while untapping my vampire. I have a nasty, evil action that prey wants to stop. And he does. And I untap, and he stays tapped, and I keep the card to use again next turn. I've just tapped a vampire *for free* (fi Path of 'Dox is out). It also allows me to cycle a card. And you tell me that's not nasty?! >MMM, let me think some more. > >Why not just use an action that let's me tap a vamp (the one I do need to tap) >instead? The chemistry ones usually do MORE than just tap the vamp in >question. Because the actiong vampre gets tapped (although he could Freak Drive, but that's an insanely powerful card, so that's no argument). Beacuse I can't be sure my important action will unblocked. >Basically, this card is a chimestry version, costing a blood, of Change of >Target. The superior is nice and taps the blocker. Still, it costs a blood, >and it's restricted to chimestry vamps. *Of course* it's restriced to Chim vamps. I see it as the offensive version of Obedience... >>>Starshell Grenade Launcher >Give this equipment to Marcianna Giovanni, Chief Investigator for the Rumor >Mill. Tap her to remove 1 stealth from the acting minion AND give a >possibility of +1 intercept to someone who tries to block. All that for one >tapped vamp of yours. Surely that won't work? [ quoted text not captured ]

> >Free States Rant > >Political Action > >Political Card - Worth 1 vote. Called by any Independent vampire at > >+1 stealth. Allocate X points among one or more ready vampire (sic), > >where X is half the capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more > >than 3 points can be allocated to a single vampire. Successful referendum > >means each vampire burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this > >referendum, titles are worth 1 less vote each (even in the Prisci > >sub-referendum), and burning the Edge for a vote is worth an additional > >vote. > >"Citizens, whatever happens today, through our defeat as well as through > >our victory, we are going to effect a revolution." > >Victor Hugo, Les Miserables. > > A perfectly decent vote card, with the bonus that it can be made to > work most of the times - just pick someone with few votes. Look out > for the combo with Banishment! Actually, as the Setites are the most likely to play this card, it's much better to combine it with Form of Corruption. Empty your prey's vampires and steal them automatically. Eventually, burn them and gain pool with Khobar Towers (the Golconda Towers) Pierre

Gomi no Sensei wrote: > Question: Given that we can tap a tapped vampire, we can untap an > untapped vampire, yes? Yes. > Given that, do multiple Guard Duties stack, so that one can be used to > untap/block at +1 intercept, then another blood can be burned to a second > copy of Guard Duty for a second intercept? Can I do this even if I don't > currently need the intercept? I think 'yes' to both, but I'm murky. Yes. No - you can only burn Guard Duty if you need the intercept, since it gives intercept. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

>>Aus/obf/pre is becoming a strong combination... > > Though difficult to know quite how to use. Pulse, stealth-ed bleeds via > Presence? Or Stealthed votes with Bewitching and Telepathic Vote > Counting? Ooh, scratch that. That sounds *nice*. Not to mention it has support with vampires from previous sets: Lena Rowe 3 cap Pander aus obf pre Greta Kircher 7 cap !Toreador AUS obf PRE Sylvester Simms 8 cap Malkavian AUS OBF pre Cornelius Ottavio 8 cap Malkavian AUS OBF pre Francois Villon 10 cap Toreador AUS obf PRE Kemintiri 10 cap Setite aus OBF PRE Leandro 11 cap Malk AUS OBF PRE Regards, Noal

>>> Reality >> >> Weak, weak! Is this supposed to replace Sensory Deprivation? It's like >> the relationship between Derange and The Haunting. > > Strong, strong, I think you mean. Note: > c) (note this one carefully) Superior level is Banishment! Without > having to pass a vote! This is strong. Indeed. Johan must be smoking some industrial strength crack. > Superior synergizes with Lazar Dobrescu, Trick of Danya, Cairo Don't forget to garnish with Brainwash. Actually, it's the combos you mention that will be the basis of the deck in the Ravnos newsletter I'm posting tonight. Regards, Noal McDonald VEKN Prince of Metro Detroit

leg...@generation.net (Philippe Richer) wrote in message news:<ti8ba0m...@corp.supernews.com>... > jo...@algonet.se (Johan Lundstrom) wrote: > >>Guard Duty > >>Action > >>+2 stealth action. > >>Put this card on the acting minion and choose a location. If the chosen > >>location is the target of a D action (and you control the location), this > >>minion can burn either 1 blood or this card to untap and attempt to > >>bock (sic) with +1 intercept. > > > >Er... I don't think so. > > But so nice to defend things like Powerbases... A good combo for blood-impaired fighting decks: give the Rack to your most dangerous blocker, then put that blocker on Guard Duty over the Rack. Haunt should also go well with many locations. It's stealth Arson and an Arson-blocker in one! It saved my butt in the pre-release tournament, allowing me to burn my predator's Opium Den.

In message <75bdf7ed.01061...@posting.google.com>, Emmit Svenson <emmits...@hotmail.com> writes >A good combo for blood-impaired fighting decks: give the Rack to your >most dangerous blocker, then put that blocker on Guard Duty over the >Rack. And then bounce it to someone else with Shilmulo. Guard Duty isn't a reaction card..... [ quoted text not captured ]

dhar...@my-deja.com (Noal McDonald) wrote: >> Strong, strong, I think you mean. Note: >> c) (note this one carefully) Superior level is Banishment! Without >> having to pass a vote! This is strong. > >Indeed. Johan must be smoking some industrial strength crack. Three blood and no stealth. I think Sensory Deprivation is quite preferable at the same cost. Anyway, how often do you see a Banishment fail? [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3b2510da....@news.algonet.se>, Johan Lundstrom <jo...@algonet.se> wrote: >dhar...@my-deja.com (Noal McDonald) wrote: >>> Strong, strong, I think you mean. Note: >>> c) (note this one carefully) Superior level is Banishment! Without >>> having to pass a vote! This is strong. >>Indeed. Johan must be smoking some industrial strength crack. >Three blood and no stealth. I think Sensory Deprivation is quite >preferable at the same cost. Sensory Deprivation lets vampires vote, leaving a hostile vote deck an unmanageable problem as long as there is one vampire capable of acting. Reality hoses their votes, opening up the situation to friendlier vote blocks across the table or empowering the Edge-holder. Fewer votes means each vote counts for more, which the Ravnos and their paucity of votes like. Reality being burnable as an action is BETTER than Sensory Deprivation, since it's something your Ravnos can block. Every intercept deck needs bait. And once in torpor, as I pointed out, he can't be rescued by a cross-table ally; someone else controlled by the same Methuselah has to try. More actions for you to block. >Anyway, how often do you see a Banishment >fail? *boggle* When it's a Ravnos deck calling it? Quite freaking often. The Ravnos are not known as rampaging vote monkeys hereabouts. gomi (*boggle* (tm) Derek Ray) [ quoted text not captured ]

go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >>Anyway, how often do you see a Banishment >>fail? > >*boggle* > >When it's a Ravnos deck calling it? Quite freaking often. The Ravnos >are not known as rampaging vote monkeys hereabouts. Heh. You tend to get everyone on the table but the target with you for the banishment, unless you're really rocking. Tactical (possibly cross-table) Banishments is a good way of keeping the table balanced. I usually included (not necessarily any more though, efter the change) a few Banishments in pretty much every deck with a bit obfuscate. You don't need the votes yourself for it to pass. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3b253d74....@news.algonet.se>, Johan Lundstrom <jo...@algonet.se> wrote: >go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >>>Anyway, how often do you see a Banishment >>>fail? >>*boggle* >>When it's a Ravnos deck calling it? Quite freaking often. The Ravnos >>are not known as rampaging vote monkeys hereabouts. >You tend to get everyone on the table but the target with you for the >banishment, unless you're really rocking. Wow. Our environments must really differ. Around here, Banishments get voted down on general principle -- you wouldn't call the Banishment unless it primarily helped you, and why should the table help you out? Certainly deals are possible and are made from time to time, but the only way to reliably get any vote, especially a strong one like Banishment, passed in the SF Bay Area is to have votelock, which the Ravnos aren't exactly set up for. gomi [ quoted text not captured ]

go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: >Wow. Our environments must really differ. Around here, Banishments >get voted down on general principle -- you wouldn't call the Banishment >unless it primarily helped you, and why should the table help you out? Interesting. In most ganes I've played, if you don't have the votes to take down the one you really want, just go for the leader. Everyone else will usually want that guy to hurt from general principle. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3b27052d....@news.algonet.se>, jo...@algonet.se (Johan Lundstrom) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] um.. yea... but what good is it picking on the leading player if it doesn't help you win in any way? (except maybe for the fact that it augments your chances of winning, by lowering his) of course if you call a banishment on the vampire or player whom all consider 'the menace' it will pass. that's a given. but so will just about any vote directed at the #1 ennemy on the table, even if it does some pool damage. around here, S&B decks tend to get ganged up on. most players (including me) will purposely let another player get a vp so they can oust the S&B deck so we can 'move on' to playing a good 'regular' game after that (in preventing a sweep by the S&B deck). but with banishment being so strong and causing a great shift in game balance, it will usually be voted down, and quite fiercely might i add. if your prey is low on pool, and you try to banish his 8 cap prince that's almost empty, you can be sure everyone will try to stop you. and this situation will arise more often than one where you'll be calling it on some cross-table vamp. but i guess it's all a matter of play environment... just my 2 cents, zarrak -- to wade the pools of malcontent is to acknowledge the loss of what could be.

cEvin Key wrote: > > In article <3b27052d....@news.algonet.se>, jo...@algonet.se (Johan > Lundstrom) wrote: > > > go...@best.com (Gomi no Sensei) wrote: > > > > >Wow. Our environments must really differ. Around here, Banishments > > >get voted down on general principle -- you wouldn't call the Banishment > > >unless it primarily helped you, and why should the table help you out? > > > > Interesting. In most ganes I've played, if you don't have the votes to > > take down the one you really want, just go for the leader. Everyone > > else will usually want that guy to hurt from general principle. > > um.. yea... but what good is it picking on the leading player if it > doesn't help you win in any way? (except maybe for the fact that it > augments your chances of winning, by lowering his) The answer to that seems pretty obvious to me. It's a general rule in all multiplayer games that you automatically increase your chances of winning when you bring down the leader. There's lots of exceptions to that in specific situations, of course, but it's still a good rule of thumb in most games. In Jyhad, the one thing that affects that thinking a lot is the predator- prey relationships. So you always need to use judgment about what anything you do to other players helps you or hinders you in terms of surviving your predator and ousting your prey. But kill-the-leader is still part of this game, too. It doesn't do to destroy your predator if it just means he gets ousted and you get an even stronger predator in the deal. Sometimes cross- table banishments to take out (or usually just delay) a scary grandpredator's key minion make a lot of sense for just the reason Johan is talking about. Actually, I think both things (that Gomi and Johan) are wrong. I think Banishments in this game are too important to bother having even the slightest "general principal" about. Every situation needs careful consideration. Fred

Frederick Scott <fre...@netcom.com> wrote: >Actually, I think both things (that Gomi and Johan) are wrong. I think >Banishments in this game are too important to bother having even the >slightest "general principal" about. Every situation needs careful >consideration. I haven't claimed this as a general principle. My claim was that it's usually possible to hit someone with Banishment in a way that you will benefit (even if indirectly) from. Sometimes it's not, of course (for instance, if you're known to include Voter Caps or Cryptic Rider, or when everyone is out to get you). [ quoted text not captured ]