Ebony Kingdom preview is up
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_EbonyKingdom
Release Date: May 27, 2009
Blood of Africa!
Some stand outside the Thirteen, ancients who adhere to even older
traditions. They are the Laibon, the vampires born in the heart of
Africa, inheritors of secrets unknown to Camarilla or Sabbat. They too
have joined the Eternal Struggle &emdash; and they intend to thrive
there.
Ebony Kingdom
White Wolf's sixteenth expansion for Vampire: The Eternal Struggle is
a boosters-only set entitled Ebony Kingdom, and it revisits the
Legacies (clans) of the African continent.
Each booster pack contains 11 all-new cards randomly selected from a
set of 60 cards consisting of 20 rares, 20 vampires, and 20 commons.
Launch Event
White Wolf has scheduled the weekend of May 30th for the Ebony Kingdom
Launch Event.
Locate players in your area at www.white-wolf.com/vtes/member.
Order your Ebony Kingdom cards now at your local game and hobby store
or order directly from the online catalog.
http://store.white-wolf.com/Ebony-Kingdom-Booster-Display-P5617.aspxhttp://store.white-wolf.com/Ebony-Kingdom-Booster-Pack-P5618.aspx
Preview
Umdava
Akunanse
Laibon magaji: you may use a master phase action to search your
library or ash heap for an Aye or Arun to place on a ready Laibon.
9 capacity
Group 4
Vicissitude, Superior Abombwe, Superior Animalism, Superior Fortitude,
Superior Presence
Nana Buruku
Guruhi
Laibon: While Nana is ready, you get two master phase actions (instead
of one) each master phase and +1 hand size.
8 capacity
Group 4
Superior Animalism, Superior Potence, Superior Presence
Undele
Ishtarri
Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
(discard afterward).
9 capacity
Group 5
Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis, Superior Celerity, Superior Fortitude
Abiku
Osebo
Laibon: Abiku gets +1 stealth when hunting.
6 capacity
Group 4
Celerity, Obtenebration, Superior Potence, Superior Auspex
Taking the Skin: Minion
Action Modifier/Combat
Abombwe
abo: Reflex. Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
played.
abo: Skin. Play when this vampire burns a minion. Put this card on
this vampire and untap him or her. This vampire may bleed an
additional time this turn and gets +1 bleed and +1 stealth when
bleeding. Burn this card during your discard phase. A minion can have
only one skin.
Remnant of the Endless Storm
Ally
Unique werewolf with 5 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. Requires a magaji.
The Remnant gets +1 strength for each life it has. The Remnant may
enter combat with any minion as a (D) action. If any effect does more
than 2 damage to the Remnant, ignore the excess. If the Remnant has 4
or fewer life during your untap phase, it gains 1 life from the blood
bank.
6 pool
Neebi
Combat
Burn Action
Requires a Laibon with three or more Aye.
Only usable before range is determined. Set the range for this round.
Skip the determine range step this round.
DRAFT: As above, but requires only two Aye.
Guinea-Bissau Carnival
Master
Put this card in play. Each Laibon gets +X stealth when hunting and
gains X+1 additional blood from the bank if succesful, where X is the
number of Aye he or she has. Burn this card during your next untap
phase. Only one Guinea-Bissau Carnival may be played in a game.
Checklist
Crypt Clan
Nestor Kaba Akunanse
Socrate Cidibe Akunanse
Aisata Swanou Akunanse
Umdava Akunanse
Kamiri wa Itherero (ADV) Akunanse
Fode Kourouma Guruhi
Batsheva (ADV) Guruhi
Ngozi Ekwensu Guruhi
Lucian, the Perfect Guruhi
Nana Buruku Guruhi
Abu Nuwasi Ishtarri
Elizabeth Conde Ishtarri
Luanda Magere Ishtarri
Jibade el-Bahrawi (ADV) Ishtarri
Undele Ishtarri
Arriette Sylla Osebo
Titi Camara Osebo
Mamadou Keita Osebo
Abiku Osebo
Cesewayo (ADV) Osebo
Library Rarity
419 Operation C
Bamba C
Bestial Vengeance R
Blood Shield R
Brutal Influence C
Despiral C
Devil-Channel: Feet C
Dusk Work C
Edge of the World R
Exile C
Familial Bond C
Guinea-Bissau Carnival R
Hiding in the Open R
Ilomba R
Impundulu R
Invoke Poison Glands C
Ishtarri Warlord R
Jua Vema C
Kuta C
Make an Example R
Mapatano Utando R
Mundane C
My Kin Against the World C
Neebi C
Nkishi R
Pallid C
Powerbase: Luanda R
Reliquary: Trinket C
Remnant of the Endless Storm R
Savannah Runner R
Sense Vibrations R
Supernatural Resistance C
Taking the Skin: Minion R
Taking the Skin: Vulture R
Taming the Beast C
The Bitter and Sweet Story R
Transcendent Laibon R
Tunnel Runner C
Unholy Radiance C
Well-Marked R
Most of those cards look they will be quite useful. Guinea-Bissau
Carnival provides a powerful bloat module, the ally is just a damn
tank and there is some encouragement to play those ayes and oruns.
some of those new vamps look special as well. laibon almost got their
own version anson.
simcof
On May 1, 2:18 pm, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ebony Kingdom preview is uphttp://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_EbonyKingdom>
> Release Date: May 27, 2009
>
> Blood of Africa!
>
> Some stand outside the Thirteen, ancients who adhere to even older
> traditions. They are the Laibon, the vampires born in the heart of
> Africa, inheritors of secrets unknown to Camarilla or Sabbat. They too> have joined the Eternal Struggle — and they intend to thrive> there.
>
> Ebony Kingdom
>
> White Wolf's sixteenth expansion for Vampire: The Eternal Struggle is
> a boosters-only set entitled Ebony Kingdom, and it revisits the
> Legacies (clans) of the African continent.
>
> Each booster pack contains 11 all-new cards randomly selected from a
> set of 60 cards consisting of 20 rares, 20 vampires, and 20 commons.
>
> Launch Event
>
> White Wolf has scheduled the weekend of May 30th for the Ebony Kingdom
> Launch Event.
>
> Locate players in your area atwww.white-wolf.com/vtes/member.
>
> Order your Ebony Kingdom cards now at your local game and hobby store
> or order directly from the online catalog.
>> http://store.white-wolf.com/Ebony-Kingdom-Booster-Display-P5617.aspxhttp://store.white-wolf.com/Ebony-Kingdom-Booster-Pack-P5618.aspx[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]> >http://store.white-wolf.com/Ebony-Kingdom-Booster-Display-P5617.aspxh...[ quoted text not captured ]> > Well-Marked R- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I love the potential for advanced vampires...
All of the laibon clans got one and wow the choices!
Cesewayo (!!!!!!!)
Batsheva
Love Umdava and Nana Buruku... there is almost NO way that Nana will
not be appearing in my Guruhi Vote deck unless the groups suddenly
don't mesh (which I doubt will happen)
On May 1, 6:48 am, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nana Buruku... there is almost NO way that Nana will
> not be appearing in my Guruhi Vote deck unless the groups suddenly
> don't mesh (which I doubt will happen)
As he is Group 4 per card text above, he should meld well into your
Guruhi deck....
On May 1, 12:18 am, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ebony Kingdom preview is uphttp://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_EbonyKingdom>
> Release Date: May 27, 2009
>
> Blood of Africa!
>
> Some stand outside the Thirteen, ancients who adhere to even older
> traditions. They are the Laibon, the vampires born in the heart of
> Africa, inheritors of secrets unknown to Camarilla or Sabbat. They too> have joined the Eternal Struggle — and they intend to thrive> there.
>
> Ebony Kingdom
>
> White Wolf's sixteenth expansion for Vampire: The Eternal Struggle is
> a boosters-only set entitled Ebony Kingdom, and it revisits the
> Legacies (clans) of the African continent.
>
> Each booster pack contains 11 all-new cards randomly selected from a
> set of 60 cards consisting of 20 rares, 20 vampires, and 20 commons.
>
> Launch Event
>
> White Wolf has scheduled the weekend of May 30th for the Ebony Kingdom
> Launch Event.
>
> Locate players in your area atwww.white-wolf.com/vtes/member.
>
> Order your Ebony Kingdom cards now at your local game and hobby store
> or order directly from the online catalog.
>> http://store.white-wolf.com/Ebony-Kingdom-Booster-Display-P5617.aspxhttp://store.white-wolf.com/Ebony-Kingdom-Booster-Pack-P5618.aspx>
> Preview
>
> Umdava
> Akunanse
> Laibon magaji: you may use a master phase action to search your
> library or ash heap for an Aye or Arun to place on a ready Laibon.
> 9 capacity
> Group 4
> Vicissitude, Superior Abombwe, Superior Animalism, Superior Fortitude,
> Superior Presence
Cool, another Akunanse magaji with PRE and a useful special., Nice
vamp!
> Nana Buruku
> Guruhi
> Laibon: While Nana is ready, you get two master phase actions (instead
> of one) each master phase and +1 hand size.
> 8 capacity
> Group 4
> Superior Animalism, Superior Potence, Superior Presence
My favorite of the 4, extra master phase actions are always super hot
and her +1 hand size should go nice with Nangila Were's +1 hand size.
Her capacity is great as an older Guruhi can move 4 to her with The
Guruhi are the land then pop her out with base transfers. So good.
> Undele
> Ishtarri
> Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
> from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
> (discard afterward).
> 9 capacity
> Group 5
> Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis, Superior Celerity, Superior Fortitude
Disapline spread is a little weak, but that special of his could be
great for vote decks that have some strange combo.
> Abiku
> Osebo
> Laibon: Abiku gets +1 stealth when hunting.
> 6 capacity
> Group 4
> Celerity, Obtenebration, Superior Potence, Superior Auspex
Neat 6 cap that could go with the two Lasombra Laibon.
> Taking the Skin: Minion
> Action Modifier/Combat
> Abombwe
> abo: Reflex. Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
> played.
> abo: Skin. Play when this vampire burns a minion. Put this card on
> this vampire and untap him or her. This vampire may bleed an
> additional time this turn and gets +1 bleed and +1 stealth when
> bleeding. Burn this card during your discard phase. A minion can have
> only one skin.
hmmm... who can I give Abombwe to and make them an Archon...
> Remnant of the Endless Storm
> Ally
> Unique werewolf with 5 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. Requires a magaji.
> The Remnant gets +1 strength for each life it has. The Remnant may
> enter combat with any minion as a (D) action. If any effect does more
> than 2 damage to the Remnant, ignore the excess. If the Remnant has 4
> or fewer life during your untap phase, it gains 1 life from the blood
> bank.
> 6 pool
...(drool)
[ quoted text not captured ]
> > Taking the Skin: Minion
> > Action Modifier/Combat
> > Abombwe
> > abo: Reflex. Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
> > played.
> > abo: Skin. Play when this vampire burns a minion. Put this card on
> > this vampire and untap him or her. This vampire may bleed an
> > additional time this turn and gets +1 bleed and +1 stealth when
> > bleeding. Burn this card during your discard phase. A minion can have
> > only one skin.
>
> hmmm... who can I give Abombwe to and make them an Archon...
Just thought of something else, if said Archon was also large enough
to have an Enkil Cog they could block some one, poke agg, Amaranth,
Taking the Skin: Minion, bleed for 3 and then bleed for 3 twice on
your turn, HOT!
The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Umdava
> Akunanse
> Laibon magaji: you may use a master phase action to search your
> library or ash heap for an Aye or Arun to place on a ready Laibon.
> 9 capacity
> Group 4
> Vicissitude, Superior Abombwe, Superior Animalism, Superior Fortitude,
> Superior Presence
Can I use a master phase action to search ebay or thelasombra.com for
an Aye or Orun instead?
I sure don't have enough of those.
> Neebi
> Combat
> Burn Action
> Requires a Laibon with three or more Aye.
> Only usable before range is determined. Set the range for this round.
> Skip the determine range step this round.
> DRAFT: As above, but requires only two Aye.
I wonder how many other cards in the set deal with Aye/Orun.
Will the set come with some way to easily access more copies of these
cards? "Requires only two Aye" at DRAFT is still going to be difficult,
even _if_ there's the ability to draft alongside Legacies of Blood, due
to the size of that set.
The Lasombra wrote:
> Ebony Kingdom preview is up
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_EbonyKingdom
Thanks for the good news. A surprising preview where everything comes fast
and all at once. Why not.
> Preview
>
> Umdava
> Akunanse
> Laibon magaji: you may use a master phase action to search your
> library or ash heap for an Aye or Arun to place on a ready Laibon.
> 9 capacity
> Group 4
> Vicissitude, Superior Abombwe, Superior Animalism, Superior Fortitude,
> Superior Presence
As of now, Aye and Orun are unused because the necessary setup just isn't
worth the effort. We will see if that changes with the set. At least it's
interesting to go further into that direction : there is an existing and
perfectible system, it's better than create a new one.
Another note : G4, apparently we'll get lots of compatible vampires, so the
player's main concern with those bloodlines (the thin crypts) seems to have
been adressed. That's good.
Apart from that, I ask a lot from a 9-cap and I'm not sure that one fits the
bill.
> Nana Buruku
> Guruhi
> Laibon: While Nana is ready, you get two master phase actions (instead
> of one) each master phase and +1 hand size.
> 8 capacity
> Group 4
> Superior Animalism, Superior Potence, Superior Presence
Enormous special !!
Will this be enough to give this clan the edge it needs ? I find their
discipline combination to be a very hard one, and their lack of title to be
crippling.
I'm sure we'll at least see Nana in many Master trick decks.
And her name in french sounds nearly as ridiculous and sexually provocative
as N'kule, Laibon Magaji. ;)
> Undele
> Ishtarri
> Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
> from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
> (discard afterward).
> 9 capacity
> Group 5
> Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis, Superior Celerity, Superior Fortitude
As has been said : poor discipline spread, great special. At least he can
use the special with stealth and untap, that's pretty good.
> Abiku
> Osebo
> Laibon: Abiku gets +1 stealth when hunting.
> 6 capacity
> Group 4
> Celerity, Obtenebration, Superior Potence, Superior Auspex
Not sure about the Obte mix with Aus and no Dom. Good addition to her clan.
> Taking the Skin: Minion
> Action Modifier/Combat
> Abombwe
> abo: Reflex. Cancel a frenzy card played on this vampire as it is
> played.
> abo: Skin. Play when this vampire burns a minion. Put this card on
> this vampire and untap him or her. This vampire may bleed an
> additional time this turn and gets +1 bleed and +1 stealth when
> bleeding. Burn this card during your discard phase. A minion can have
> only one skin.
Good card or not ? Burning a minion isn't an easy task. But Abombwe now is
THE discipline that rewards it, with Predator`s Transformation and now
Taking the Skin : burning a minion of your prey can give you the kill in one
turn (with some added bleed or Fame) ! This is certainly motivating for a
rush deck. Now, I still believe that Pot will be a necessary addition to the
mix, if only for the Immortal Grapple (and burning requires to do some heavy
damage too...). Hope Jubal gets some new friends...
> Remnant of the Endless Storm
> Ally
> Unique werewolf with 5 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. Requires a magaji.
> The Remnant gets +1 strength for each life it has. The Remnant may
> enter combat with any minion as a (D) action. If any effect does more
> than 2 damage to the Remnant, ignore the excess. If the Remnant has 4
> or fewer life during your untap phase, it gains 1 life from the blood
> bank.
> 6 pool
Enormous !! Unfortunately, so is its cost. Will you be the one to risk
paying 6 pool for an ally that can be stolen, and might have trouble killing
your pred's minions before he bleeds you to death ?
> Neebi
> Combat
> Burn Action
> Requires a Laibon with three or more Aye.
> Only usable before range is determined. Set the range for this round.
> Skip the determine range step this round.
> DRAFT: As above, but requires only two Aye.
Burn action is good. Not sure I wouldn't prefer a simple maneuver to such a
good card requiring such setup.
> Guinea-Bissau Carnival
> Master
> Put this card in play. Each Laibon gets +X stealth when hunting and
> gains X+1 additional blood from the bank if succesful, where X is the
> number of Aye he or she has. Burn this card during your next untap
> phase. Only one Guinea-Bissau Carnival may be played in a game.
See above.
Orpheus
On May 1, 5:39 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
This is a great point. With the set not having any Aye or Orun in it,
it means drafting with Legacies of Blood packs to make a lot of the
cards useful. Do many stores have a decent amount of LoB packs still
around?
Rhavas wrote:
> This is a great point. With the set not having any Aye or Orun in it,
> it means drafting with Legacies of Blood packs to make a lot of the
> cards useful. Do many stores have a decent amount of LoB packs still
> around?
Drafting with LoB is not a viable option, even where packs are
available. The number of Aye and Orun one is likely to see from LoB
packs in a draft is far from sufficient to play the new cards in a
limited format. Note that the tournament organizer may give draft
attendees as many fixed additional cards as she likes, as long as
everyone gets the same cards. At a recent draft I ran involving
Twilight Rebellion, each player received 1 copy of Fee Stake: Baron,
which worked out really well. That said, if WW doesn't plan on
releasing Aye and Orun in plentiful quantities as promo cards, or via
some other method, some of the new cards look like they'll be fairly
hard to play.
Jesse
Excellent! More Laibon madness!
On May 1, 6:28 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus.TAKEOU...@free.fr> wrote:
> > Nana Buruku
> > Guruhi
> > Laibon: While Nana is ready, you get two master phase actions (instead
> > of one) each master phase and +1 hand size.
> > 8 capacity
> > Group 4
> > Superior Animalism, Superior Potence, Superior Presence
>
> Enormous special !!
>
> Will this be enough to give this clan the edge it needs ? I find their
> discipline combination to be a very hard one, and their lack of title to be
> crippling.
>
> I'm sure we'll at least see Nana in many Master trick decks.
Nana will be a fine addition to my Eze votezooka deck. I think that
the Guruhi are fabulous and I've had good luck with them. Very strong
vampire.
>
> > Undele
> > Ishtarri
> > Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
> > from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
> > (discard afterward).
> > 9 capacity
> > Group 5
> > Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis, Superior Celerity, Superior Fortitude
>
> As has been said : poor discipline spread, great special. At least he can
> use the special with stealth and untap, that's pretty good.
Why are the Ishtarri so despised that their big vamps can't have all
of their in-clan disciplines at superior? Is PRE/CEL/FOR some
unstoppable combo? I keep trying to make them good but I always
taste the bitterness of their poor skill levels. . . . I'm hoping
for a bit more for their new vamps. . . .
Overall a set of tricky stuff. Glad I have piles of Aye and Oruns to
try out some of these cards with!
Cheers,
John
> This is a great point. With the set not having any Aye or Orun in it,
> it means drafting with Legacies of Blood packs to make a lot of the
> cards useful. Do many stores have a decent amount of LoB packs still
> around?
Aye and Orun don't need to be reprinted. There are plenty on the
secondary market.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Because they've been (next to) useless so far. If the new set makes
them good, that secondary market might very well change, which could
end in a kinda bad way.
> Why are the Ishtarri so despised that their big vamps can't have all
> of their in-clan disciplines at superior? Is PRE/CEL/FOR some
> unstoppable combo? I keep trying to make them good but I always
> taste the bitterness of their poor skill levels. . . . I'm hoping
> for a bit more for their new vamps. . . .
I agree, it's stupidly frustrating. I hope their other new vamps make
up for it.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Which is absolutely irrelevant to draft, which is what Tony was
talking about.
And which is, definitely, a problem - Legacies of Blood is *already*
fair-to-mediocre for draft, and contains far too little Aye/Orun to be
worth mentioning, certainly not enough for cards or even draft effects
based on them to be useful in a draft setting.
Beyond that, too - really, there aren't "plenty" on the secondary
market. TheLasombra.com, for instance, has 5 Aye and 10 Orun
presently. There are currently 17 Aye available on Ebay, two for the
outrageous price of $1 each, and 23 Orun.
Assume a given average player bought a box of Legacies of Blood.
Heck, make it 2. They've got 4 and 4, currently, on average, if
memory serves about how distribution was in that set - it certainly
matches what I got. If you're really building to use them - say,
thinking you want to run Guinea-Bisseau as a bloat engine, and
assuming there's something comparable for Orun coming that's also
interesting - you're going to want at least 10 of them in the deck.
Probably more, but let's say 10. That means you need 6 more. So, you
and only THREE other players in the same situation will exhaust those
two sources on the secondary market at the moment.
That's not plenty. That's insufficient.
- D.J.
- D.J.
jcrossn...@gmail.com wrote:
> That said, if WW doesn't plan on
> releasing Aye and Orun in plentiful quantities as promo cards, or via
> some other method, some of the new cards look like they'll be fairly
> hard to play.
Each booster box has a bonus pack of cards consisting of Aye and Orun reprints.
On May 1, 11:48 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
*Applause*
Any info on how many? Also, folks will need to figure out how best to
get 'em distributed during a draft, but at least they're there.
- D.J.
On Fri, 01 May 2009 00:18:24 -0400, The Lasombra
<TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Umdava
>Akunanse
>Laibon magaji: you may use a master phase action to search your
>library or ash heap for an Aye or Arun to place on a ready Laibon.
>9 capacity
>Group 4
>Vicissitude, Superior Abombwe, Superior Animalism, Superior Fortitude,
>Superior Presence
I'm curious as to the interpretation of Umdava's special. Seems like
"to place on" is a clunky way of saying "and place it on". Assuming
that's the way it's to be interpreted, of course*.
It looks like it was done for formatting reasons (Umdava's text box is
full), but Undele uses a slightly smaller font to fit in his larger
amount of text.
* My accuracy rates on interpreting complex VTES is well below 50%.
Morgan Vening
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> D.J. wrote:
> > On May 1, 11:48 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> >> jcrossnicker...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> That said, if WW doesn't plan on
> >>> releasing Aye and Orun in plentiful quantities as promo cards, or via
> >>> some other method, some of the new cards look like they'll be fairly
> >>> hard to play.
> >> Each booster box has a bonus pack of cards consisting of Aye and Orun reprints.
> >
> > *Applause*
> >
> > Any info on how many? Also, folks will need to figure out how best to
> > get 'em distributed during a draft, but at least they're there.> If they want to distribute them, sure.
What about stores who purchase booster boxes to, y'know, sell boosters?
Will there be some suggested way of making sure that the Ayes and Oruns
get to customers?
Are there 18 of each included? That'd be nice, get a free Aye or Orun
with every booster....
On May 1, 10:15 am, "D.J." <dj...@comcast.net> wrote:
> If you're really building to use them - say,
> thinking you want to run Guinea-Bisseau as a bloat engine, and
> assuming there's something comparable for Orun coming that's also
> interesting - you're going to want at least 10 of them in the deck.
Total aside - depending on a card playable only once per game for your
bloat engine is an imbattible strategy!
> - D.J.
-John Flournoy
[ quoted text not captured ]
Hmm. Yeah, OK - maybe not the greatest example. But hey - if there
are good effects worth building a deck around (and I'd bet there are)
- the point stands.
- D.J.
D.J. wrote:
> On May 1, 10:48 am, devil_in_the_pale_moon_li...@yahoo.com wrote:>>> This is a great point. With the set not having any Aye or Orun in it,
>>> it means drafting with Legacies of Blood packs to make a lot of the
>>> cards useful. Do many stores have a decent amount of LoB packs still
>>> around?>> Aye and Orun don't need to be reprinted. There are plenty on the
>> secondary market.>
> Which is absolutely irrelevant to draft, which is what Tony was
> talking about.
> And which is, definitely, a problem - Legacies of Blood is *already*
> fair-to-mediocre for draft, and contains far too little Aye/Orun to be
> worth mentioning, certainly not enough for cards or even draft effects
> based on them to be useful in a draft setting.
>
> Beyond that, too - really, there aren't "plenty" on the secondary
> market. TheLasombra.com, for instance, has 5 Aye and 10 Orun
> presently. There are currently 17 Aye available on Ebay, two for the
> outrageous price of $1 each, and 23 Orun.
>
>
\
Outrageous high or low?
best -
chris
[ quoted text not captured ]
Struck me as outrageous high, for something nominally a common,
particularly when the other listings on Ebay are 4 or 5 to the
dollar. YMMV.
- D.J.
librarian <auct...@superfuncards.com> wrote:
> Matt Hirsch wrote:
> > On May 1, 12:18 am, The Lasombra <TheLasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Titi Camara Osebo
> >
> > Best vampire name ever.
> >
> > -MDH> In Ghanaian, that's pronounced ChiChi.
In VTES-ese, we're going to have a lot of Cock and Titi jokes.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I dunno, $1 doesn't seem that high. Seems like about the going rate
for good commons from a large set, especially one with reprints. I
haven't checked, but I'd assume Eyes of Argus is going for at least
that much. Although I don't think most people consider Aye and Orun
that good, but I think they're underrated. Ayes, at least, are a life-
saver for my Guruhi Are the Land Deck, and I run 3 or 4 Static
Virtues, 4 Ayes, 3 Oruns, and a few High Ayes in my No Secrets From
Cesewayo...
> As of now, Aye and Orun are unused because the necessary setup just isn't
> worth the effort. We will see if that changes with the set. At least it's
> interesting to go further into that direction : there is an existing and
> perfectible system, it's better than create a new one.
Not unused. I've had two liabon deck that uses Orun in order to play
High Oruns. Getting +1 hand size and paying one less for any
discipline card is strong in my book. Currently it runs at 9 Orun 3
Aye, no static virtue as it's not worth it with the Vamps I'm using,
no one above 9. As long as the deck is cycling and I get them, it's
effective. Unless the shuffle has everything at the bottom. I've
played games and gone through half the deck and not seen one of any of
them. Some games where I get them quickly. Even had to deal with
Suddens\Washes sometimes. It's a crap shoot like with most trick decks
and this technically qualifies.
The current version I play is as follows:
4 Kabede Maru abo pot AUS CEL OBF QUI9
Assamite
3 Olugbenga ani cel OBF QUI 7 Assamite
2 Kamau Jafari obf QUI 4 Assamite
2 Ubende for obf qui CEL PRE7 Ishtarri
1 Massassi obf AUS CEL POT QUI9 Osebo
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (21 cards)
1 Alamut
1 Powerbase: Tshwane
1 Yoruba Shrine
1 Market Square
1 Underworld Hunting Ground
9 Orun
3 Aye
1 Ancestor Spirit
1 Path of Lilith, The
1 Mbare Market, Harare
1 Black Throne, The
Action (7 cards)
4 No Secrets From the Magaji
1 Travelers Obey the Tenets
2 Loss
Action Modifier (3 cards)
2 Veil the Legions
1 Strange Day
Political Action (10 cards)
2 Eldest Command Undeath, The
2 Secret Must Be Kept, The
5 Kine Resources Contested
1 Peace of Khetamon, The
Reaction (10 cards)
4 Nest of Eagles
4 Terra Incognita
2 Confusion of the Eye
Combat (26 cards)
8 Selective Silence
12 Blood Sweat
6 Blur
Retainer (1 cards)
1 Shaman
Equipment (5 cards)
1 Kduva`s Mask
1 Reliquary: Shango Remains
2 Sniper Rifle
1 Drum of Xipe Totec
Combo (7 cards)
7 High Orun
In article <%KEKl.17219$8_3....@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com>,
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> Each booster box has a bonus pack of cards consisting of Aye and Orun
> reprints.
That is fantastic. Thanks!
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html
"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff
> > Undele
> > Ishtarri
> > Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
> > from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
> > (discard afterward).
> > 9 capacity
> > Group 5
> > Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis, Superior Celerity, Superior Fortitude
>
> As has been said : poor discipline spread, great special. At least he can
> use the special with stealth and untap, that's pretty good.
I think the designers overestimated the value of his special. A
successful action by a 9-cap plus a successful referendum is already
almost payment enough for that effect. I'd value it at about 0.5
points.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I think you're underestimating recursion. And the discipline spread as
well.
Easy access to untap (Glutton, Freak Drive, Forced March) and stealth
(Forced March, Resist Earth's Grasp, random obf card) lowers the cost
of a successful action rather much.
The only thing I see Undele missing is superior Presence, and giving
him that would've made him really, really strong. That might be what
the Laibon clans need though, but I'd say the Ishtarri will do just
fine with this.
Ishtarri's clan disciplines is one of the strongest trio in the game,
and the fact that their vampires are limited (both in number and
through lack of superior clan disciplines) is what keeps them good
instead of broken.
[ quoted text not captured ]
If he shuffled the cards into your library, I'd agree. Putting two
cards of your choice into your hand is quite valuable.
-witness1
[ quoted text not captured ]
Better than Sudario in fact : you don't need "another sudario" as the action
is cardless, and you don't discard random cards from your hand so you have
better control over your effective hand.
Only the "referendum" part restricts it. Maybe a bit too much. And I still
hate 9-Caps, especially in a clan which relies on bloat for survival. Still,
that special is good.
Orpheus
> >>>> Undele
> >>>> Ishtarri
> >>>> Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion
> >>>> cards from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political
> >>>> action (discard afterward).
> >>>> 9 capacity
> >>>> Group 5
> >>>> Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis, Superior Celerity, Superior
> >>>> Fortitude
>
> >>> As has been said : poor discipline spread, great special. At least
> >>> he can use the special with stealth and untap, that's pretty good.> >> I think the designers overestimated the value of his special. A
> >> successful action by a 9-cap plus a successful referendum is already
> >> almost payment enough for that effect. I'd value it at about 0.5
> >> points.> > If he shuffled the cards into your library, I'd agree. Putting two
> > cards of your choice into your hand is quite valuable.
Sure. But a pair of low-caps with [nec] can achieve this same effect
with no referendum. True, it would require the appropriate action
cards in hand.
> Better than Sudario in fact : you don't need "another sudario" as the action
> is cardless, and you don't discard random cards from your hand so you have
> better control over your effective hand.
Certainly not *strictly* better than Sudario. Sudario gives you three
library cards of any type, without passing a referendum. Undele's
special gives you two minion cards.
On May 2, 3:38 pm, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> > >>>> Undele
> > >>>> Ishtarri
> > >>>> Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion
> > >>>> cards from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political
> > >>>> action (discard afterward).
> > >>>> 9 capacity
> > >>>> Group 5
> > >>>> Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis, Superior Celerity, Superior
> > >>>> Fortitude
>
> > >>> As has been said : poor discipline spread, great special. At least
> > >>> he can use the special with stealth and untap, that's pretty good.
> > >> I think the designers overestimated the value of his special. A
> > >> successful action by a 9-cap plus a successful referendum is already
> > >> almost payment enough for that effect. I'd value it at about 0.5
> > >> points.
> > > If he shuffled the cards into your library, I'd agree. Putting two
> > > cards of your choice into your hand is quite valuable.
>
> Sure. But a pair of low-caps with [nec] can achieve this same effect
> with no referendum. True, it would require the appropriate action
> cards in hand.
It would be two of your available vamps, the appropriate action cards
in your _deck_ (much less hand), and be at no stealth.
> > Better than Sudario in fact : you don't need "another sudario" as the action
> > is cardless, and you don't discard random cards from your hand so you have
> > better control over your effective hand.
>
> Certainly not *strictly* better than Sudario. Sudario gives you three
> library cards of any type, without passing a referendum. Undele's
> special gives you two minion cards.
Undele compares reasonably with Pochtli: +1 cost, +1 magaji title,
puts in hand instead of library, but has -1 point of disciplines.
(I think of requiring a referendum as being close to neutral for a
vamp with presence in a voting clan)
-witness1
On May 2, 8:38 pm, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> > Better than Sudario in fact : you don't need "another sudario" as the action
> > is cardless, and you don't discard random cards from your hand so you have
> > better control over your effective hand.
>
> Certainly not *strictly* better than Sudario. Sudario gives you three
> library cards of any type, without passing a referendum. Undele's
> special gives you two minion cards.
Then again, Sudario is kinda broken (comparing cost to effect etc). So
even if Undele's special is slightly worse (which I'm not sure it is),
it's still pretty heavy.
jwnew...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On May 2, 3:38 pm, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote:>>>>>>> Undele
>>>>>>> Ishtarri
>>>>>>> Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion
>>>>>>> cards from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political
>>>>>>> action (discard afterward).
>>>>>>> 9 capacity
>>>>>>> Group 5
>>>>>>> Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis, Superior Celerity, Superior
>>>>>>> Fortitude>>>>>>>> As has been said : poor discipline spread, great special. At
>>>>>> least he can use the special with stealth and untap, that's
>>>>>> pretty good.>>>>> I think the designers overestimated the value of his special. A
>>>>> successful action by a 9-cap plus a successful referendum is
>>>>> already almost payment enough for that effect. I'd value it at
>>>>> about 0.5 points.>>>> If he shuffled the cards into your library, I'd agree. Putting two
>>>> cards of your choice into your hand is quite valuable.>>
>> Sure. But a pair of low-caps with [nec] can achieve this same effect
>> with no referendum. True, it would require the appropriate action
>> cards in hand.
Which is a great deal.
> It would be two of your available vamps, the appropriate action cards
> in your _deck_ (much less hand), and be at no stealth.
Why no stealth ? Whispers from the Dead at NEC has stealth. Pandora`s
Whisper
at Nec has stealth. So does Gear Up.
>>> Better than Sudario in fact : you don't need "another sudario" as
>>> the action is cardless, and you don't discard random cards from
>>> your hand so you have better control over your effective hand.>>
>> Certainly not *strictly* better than Sudario. Sudario gives you three
>> library cards of any type, without passing a referendum. Undele's
>> special gives you two minion cards.
Granted. So you wouldn't play recursive Master Cards. Or you need to add
Anthelios + Parthenon (or that new Guruhi). Still, a pretty strong effect.
> Undele compares reasonably with Pochtli: +1 cost, +1 magaji title,
> puts in hand instead of library, but has -1 point of disciplines.
Put in had is so much better ! How many times did you see Pochtli played as
opposed to Carlotta (in the old times before Sudario) ? Whispers from the
Dead opposed to Summon Soul ? Undele is much better than Pochtli.
> (I think of requiring a referendum as being close to neutral for a
> vamp with presence in a voting clan)
"Close" being the key word, because there are always times when you won't be
able to pass the votes (just the times when fetching a modifier would be
nice). But I agree that under average conditions it should be highly
feasible.
There's a nice crypt too, with Princes to help bloating. I was thinking of
Dmitra, Mukhtar and co... Could work ! (?)
Orpheus
On 1 mei, 20:27, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
> > >> Each booster box has a bonus pack of cards consisting of Aye and Orun reprints.> What about stores who purchase booster boxes to, y'know, sell boosters?> Will there be some suggested way of making sure that the Ayes and Oruns
> get to customers?
> Are there 18 of each included? That'd be nice, get a free Aye or Orun
> with every booster....
I'd very much like this question answered.
Are stores instructed somehow to give the cards away as singles? Or is
there one (37th) pack included which looks just like the others but
contains only Aye/Oruns, or...?
If there's 18 of each included, it seems like it would've been easier
to just include one card extra in each booster, like the NoR rule
cards.
On May 2, 4:55 pm, "Orpheus" <orpheus.TAKEOU...@free.fr> wrote:
> jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > On May 2, 3:38 pm, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote:
> >> Sure. But a pair of low-caps with [nec] can achieve this same effect
> >> with no referendum. True, it would require the appropriate action
> >> cards in hand.
>
> Which is a great deal.
>
> > It would be two of your available vamps, the appropriate action cards
> > in your _deck_ (much less hand), and be at no stealth.
>
> Why no stealth ? Whispers from the Dead at NEC has stealth. Pandora`s
> Whisper
> at Nec has stealth. So does Gear Up.
He said [nec], which I took to mean inferior. Pandora's Whisper and
Gear Up have their own issues.
But not only do you need them in your deck to begin with, in order to
compete with Undele you have to have so many that you can attempt them
every turn (or at least every turn where you'd *want* to).
> Undele is much better than Pochtli.
I agree - and think that Pochtli is a reasonably costed vampire.
> There's a nice crypt too, with Princes to help bloating. I was thinking of
> Dmitra, Mukhtar and co... Could work ! (?)
Don't forget Ayo Igoli and Ubende also share obf + voting prowess.
-witness1
Maybe somebody could give a concrete suggestion (which cards and why)
of how Undele's special could be great.
I imagine his special as something that can make a deck run smoother,
obviously. Don't have a KRC? Get one, and an Awe (or Forgotten
Labyrinth), from your ashheap. It's good. But 9 is a LOT of pool.
Teeka wrote:
> On 1 mei, 20:27, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:>>>>> Each booster box has a bonus pack of cards consisting of Aye and
>>>>> Orun reprints.>>> What about stores who purchase booster boxes to, y'know, sell
>> boosters? Will there be some suggested way of making sure that the
>> Ayes and Oruns get to customers?
>> Are there 18 of each included? That'd be nice, get a free Aye or Orun
>> with every booster....>
> I'd very much like this question answered.
>
> Are stores instructed somehow to give the cards away as singles? Or is
> there one (37th) pack included which looks just like the others but
> contains only Aye/Oruns, or...?
I doubt it, and if it contained 18 cards instead of 11 it wouldn't look like
the other boosts. ;)
[ quoted text not captured ]
jwnew...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> On May 2, 4:55 pm, "Orpheus" <orpheus.TAKEOU...@free.fr> wrote:>> jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net wrote:>>> On May 2, 3:38 pm, Malone <kffos...@indiana.edu> wrote:>>>> Sure. But a pair of low-caps with [nec] can achieve this same
>>>> effect with no referendum. True, it would require the appropriate
>>>> action cards in hand.>>
>> Which is a great deal.
>>>>> It would be two of your available vamps, the appropriate action
>>> cards in your _deck_ (much less hand), and be at no stealth.>>
>> Why no stealth ? Whispers from the Dead at NEC has stealth. Pandora`s
>> Whisper
>> at Nec has stealth. So does Gear Up.>
> He said [nec], which I took to mean inferior.
There is no reason to go for nec, except of course if we're limitng
ourselves to Ishtarri.
> Pandora's Whisper and
> Gear Up have their own issues.
Sure, but both require inferior Nec. In a vote deck only Pandora would be
viable, but if you need it so be it !
You can also equip from the Sargon Fragment, which is good if you can pass
an action easily and untap (I always put 1-2 in TGB decks including
Alexandra).
But in this cas Undele is just better than any of those solutions.
> But not only do you need them in your deck to begin with, in order to
> compete with Undele you have to have so many that you can attempt them
> every turn (or at least every turn where you'd *want* to).
Yes.
>> Undele is much better than Pochtli.>
> I agree - and think that Pochtli is a reasonably costed vampire.
>>> There's a nice crypt too, with Princes to help bloating. I was
>> thinking of Dmitra, Mukhtar and co... Could work ! (?)>
> Don't forget Ayo Igoli and Ubende also share obf + voting prowess.
I didn't forget them, just don't want to tell you all my plans ! ;)
Orpheus
[ quoted text not captured ]
It is, and more than that it's a lot of transfers. But Guillaume Giovanni is
9 too and gets played, so is Ignazio...
The only real trouble I see is that a deck including Undele won't deflect
and will rely only on bloating for survival. But in a way that's good : your
deck won't NEED Undele to survive, you don't need to get him out first (no
Govern down) except if you play Grooming (or Ayo, who also can bounce) so
I'd see Undele as the icing on the cake, the vamp you get out if / when your
game is going well enough, and who helps you win, but that you can leave
uncontrolled if you don't have the ressources and still have a hope to win
your game.
Not bad, all in all...
Orpheus
[ quoted text not captured ]
Undele also has another advantage... in the "Decked" situation and you
have static vote-power...
Grab two cards from ash-heap each turn until you have built the hand
you want (keep 1, use 1 kind of tactic).
Undele's Meth never gets totally decked if they have the votes... how
about THAT for gold.
On May 4, 3:59 am, Oortje <internetoor...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> About the names..... is neebi pronounced as new-be?
without any knowledge I'm going to guess "knee-by" sounds like a
combat card. ;)
On 3 mei, 09:59, "Orpheus" <orpheus.TAKEOU...@free.fr> wrote:
> Teeka wrote:
> > On 1 mei, 20:27, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
> >>>>> Each booster box has a bonus pack of cards consisting of Aye and
> >>>>> Orun reprints.
>
> >> What about stores who purchase booster boxes to, y'know, sell
> >> boosters? Will there be some suggested way of making sure that the
> >> Ayes and Oruns get to customers?
> >> Are there 18 of each included? That'd be nice, get a free Aye or Orun
> >> with every booster....
>
> > I'd very much like this question answered.
>
> > Are stores instructed somehow to give the cards away as singles? Or is
> > there one (37th) pack included which looks just like the others but
> > contains only Aye/Oruns, or...?
>
> I doubt it, and if it contained 18 cards instead of 11 it wouldn't look like
> the other boosts. ;)
>
>
Obviously. But that's part of why I ask. If it IS a single 'similar'
booster, it'll likely contain 11 reprints. Meaning in turn that luck
will decide wether you get more Aye than Orun, or vice versa.
So, has this been cleared already? (in another thread I missed?)
I'd really like to know before I start ordering stuff.
> Grab two cards from ash-heap each turn until you have built the hand
> you want (keep 1, use 1 kind of tactic).
> Undele's Meth never gets totally decked if they have the votes... how
> about THAT for gold.
The obvious choices are Voter Cap and Freak Drive - unless the
referendum passes by a single vote, you gain one or more blood and in
any case untap immediately for free :)
--
-bur