rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

random Jyhad rulings

19 messages from 10 participants · 26 August 1994 – 07 September 1994 · rec.games.deckmaster
source archive

Tom Wylie

Below are a series of rulings from my Jyhad contact. Some of them are in the FAQ, some of them were just confirming the rules, some of them are new. I included all of them simply because I felt like it. I'll go through tomorrow and follow up to the individual threads which were waiting on these response. ---------------------------------------- Deflection is not a misprint. The cost really is paid from your pool, rather than from the vampire's blood. This would, in general, apply to any "methuselah's pool" symbol appearing in the middle of the card... they are paid from your pool, not from the vampire's blood, as costs printed there typically are. If any vampire goes to torpor during combat, the combat ends when that step finishes. This means it would end before any additional strikes could be taken. Anson gives a second, fully functional master action during your master phase. This would allow you to get two blood from Investments, for example. Master cards can only be played on ready vampires, unless of course the card indicates otherwise. Any Methuselah may burn political cards to get votes, including the Methuselah calling the vote. Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase (e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. Pulled Fangs does count up potential damage, not the amount of damage actually inflicted during the combat (an oops on my part... too much Magic on the brain, I guess). Actions which give you an enhanced bleed, such as Computer Hacking, can still only be directed against your prey unless the card specifically indicates otherwise. You must show everyone which card you're playing before they decide whether to respond to it; you must for example show them which weapon you're trying to equip a vampire with before they decide whether or not to intercept. The gradual warming up of the transfers available takes place even in a two-player game. The cost for contested cards is always paid from your pool, unless it's a contested title, in which case the titled vampire pays blood instead. Anything which would burn a contested location burns all of those location cards (but would leave other contested locations unharmed). This applies to cards like Unnatural Disaster as well as directed actions like Arson. The only way to get equipment off a vampire in torpor is to commit diablerie. You cannot use an Equip action to do so. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Roberto Ullfig

In article <33k9cq$g3r@perv.hal.COM>, aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: |> |> Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during |> your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even |> if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase |> (e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you |> must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. This is still a little confusing: "it *must* hunt as its next action". Is the vampire forced to hunt or is it only allowed to do the hunt action? |> |> Anything which would burn a contested location burns all of those location |> cards (but would leave other contested locations unharmed). This applies |> to cards like Unnatural Disaster as well as directed actions like Arson. I still don't know how this should work since contested cards should be considered "out of play". -- Roberto Ullfig - ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov

...Paul

In article <33k9cq$g3r@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: > >Below are a series of rulings from my Jyhad contact. Some of them are >in the FAQ, some of them were just confirming the rules, some of them >are new. I included all of them simply because I felt like it. I'll >go through tomorrow and follow up to the individual threads which were >waiting on these response. > >---------------------------------------- >Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >(e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. So this counters the current FAQ answer, right? Now I'm confused. What this says here is that if a 0-blood minion comes out of torpor by being rescued, now it MUST hunt, immediately, where as the FAQ said that it doesn't. I take it/hope this takes precedence? >The gradual warming up of the transfers available takes place >even in a two-player game. Oh really? Hmm... ...Paul (Time to go update my personal version of the rules... :) -- + + + + + + + + + + + Paul, cleggp@aol.com. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD "When doth life leave the weary? 'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul

Brian Scearce

aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: > Anson gives a second, fully functional master action during your master > phase. This would allow you to get two blood from Investments, for > example. Suppose I have Anson in play. Does an out-of-turn master action allow me one master action my next turn, or none? > Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped > during your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. Does this mean it has to hunt, or that it can take no action except hunting? I.e. can the vampire choose to not take any action at all? Brian -- Brian Scearce bls@sector7g.eng.sun.com The entire software industry runs on coffee just as much as it runs on electricity. -- Dan Sorenson

Owen P Reynolds

>Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >(e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. What about playing something like Restoration? (Action card, Gain 2 blood or 3 for superior Fortitude.) >Pulled Fangs does count up potential damage, not the amount of damage >actually inflicted during the combat (an oops on my part... too much >Magic on the brain, I guess). Ouch -- so when do you play it? As soon as you are blocked by a "weaker" vampire? After the choose range phase if you are in close combat? After the choose strike part of the strike phase but before damage is dealt? >Actions which give you an enhanced bleed, such as Computer Hacking, can >still only be directed against your prey unless the card specifically >indicates otherwise. Like Computer Hacking, for example? It's a (D) action, which by 13.3.1 can be directed against any player. >You must show everyone which card you're playing before they decide >whether to respond to it; you must for example show them which weapon >you're trying to equip a vampire with before they decide whether >or not to intercept. New question: what about Vast Wealth [minion may, as an action, equip with the first piece of equipment you can find in your library.] My reading is that this is _not_ an equip action (since those require you to have a piece of equipment.) It's a "use Vast Wealth" action. Only if it is unblocked do you proceed with the effect. >The gradual warming up of the transfers available takes place >even in a two-player game. Yes! This seems obvious to me. It's a very slick way of negating the advantage of going first (the second player can have a Justicar working for him _before_ the player going first can.) >The only way to get equipment off a vampire in torpor is to commit diablerie. >You cannot use an Equip action to do so. Hmmm...you can get equipment from another of your minions who is 'in play.' I take 'in play' to mean 'controlled' (which would include torpered critters,) but this says 'in play' means 'ready?' A beef: why can't you just kill a vampire in torpor without diablerizing it? It doesn't seem to be game unbalancing, and from an RPG point of view is perfectly acceptable. This is important when you know you don't have enough votes. You effectively have to sacrifice one of your vampires to destroy the one in torpor. (In the RPG, killing any vampire without permission isn't actually allowed, but it's already possible to kill a vampire directly in combat with excess aggravated damage and not get a blood hunt called on you. Also, in the RPG, it's not all that easy to diablerize another vampire. You often end up just killing them in the attempt. Steaking someone and leaving him to watch the sun rise is fairly common, as these things go.) --

Tom Wylie

Roberto Ullfig <ullfig@fnrobo.fnal.gov> wrote: >|> Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >|> your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >|> if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >|> (e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >|> must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. >This is still a little confusing: "it *must* hunt as its next action". >Is the vampire forced to hunt or is it only allowed to do the hunt action? It has to hunt immediately. I sent back *another* double check on this, based on the relevant entry in the FAQ, but that was my understanding of it as of my last discussion on hunting. >|> Anything which would burn a contested location burns all of those location >|> cards (but would leave other contested locations unharmed). This applies >|> to cards like Unnatural Disaster as well as directed actions like Arson. >I still don't know how this should work since contested cards should be >considered "out of play". Contested vampires are essentially out of play. Contested locations or not. Unsure about contested equipment and retainers. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Tom Wylie

Brian Scearce <bls@Eng.Sun.COM> wrote: >> Anson gives a second, fully functional master action during your master >> phase. This would allow you to get two blood from Investments, for >> example. >Suppose I have Anson in play. Does an out-of-turn master action allow >me one master action my next turn, or none? None, since playing an out-of-turn card requires burning your next master phase, not simply your next master action. >> Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped >> during your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. >Does this mean it has to hunt, or that it can take no action except >hunting? I.e. can the vampire choose to not take any action at all? I don't think so. Am quadruple checking that. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Tom Wylie

Owen P Reynolds <owen@iastate.edu> wrote: >>Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >>your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >>if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >>(e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >>must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. > What about playing something like Restoration? (Action card, Gain >2 blood or 3 for superior Fortitude.) The rule is not that it has to do something to get blood on its next action, the rule is that it has to hunt on its next action. >>Pulled Fangs does count up potential damage, not the amount of damage >>actually inflicted during the combat (an oops on my part... too much >>Magic on the brain, I guess). > Ouch -- so when do you play it? As soon as you are blocked by a "weaker" >vampire? After the choose range phase if you are in close combat? After >the choose strike part of the strike phase but before damage is dealt? The more I look at Pulled Fangs, the more I hate the card ;) Look for a posting dedicated to PF in the near future. >>Actions which give you an enhanced bleed, such as Computer Hacking, can >>still only be directed against your prey unless the card specifically >>indicates otherwise. > Like Computer Hacking, for example? It's a (D) action, which by 13.3.1 >can be directed against any player. Read what I said. You can only ever bleed your prey unless a card *specifically* says you can bleed someone else. Computer Hacking does *specifically* let you bleed anyone else, so you can't. The <D> is there because if it wasn't, your predator would be able to block the action... it is not there to allow you to bleed your predator. > New question: what about Vast Wealth [minion may, as an action, equip >with the first piece of equipment you can find in your library.] > My reading is that this is _not_ an equip action (since those require >you to have a piece of equipment.) It's a "use Vast Wealth" action. Only >if it is unblocked do you proceed with the effect. Right. No action does anything if it's blocked. >>The only way to get equipment off a vampire in torpor is to commit diablerie. >>You cannot use an Equip action to do so. > Hmmm...you can get equipment from another of your minions who is >'in play.' I take 'in play' to mean 'controlled' (which would include >torpered critters,) but this says 'in play' means 'ready?' The rule is basically that the only way to interact with a vampire in torpor is via the 'encounter' action, which only gives the "rescue" and "diablerize" options. >A beef: why can't you just kill a vampire in torpor without diablerizing >it? It doesn't seem to be game unbalancing, and from an RPG point of view >is perfectly acceptable. This is important when you know you don't have >enough votes. You effectively have to sacrifice one of your vampires to >destroy the one in torpor. It's one of those "just because" things. I think it's very deliberate that you (typically) can't go around burning everyone's vampires with impunity, given that vampires are such a crucial resource. > (In the RPG, killing any vampire without permission isn't actually >allowed, but it's already possible to kill a vampire directly in combat >with excess aggravated damage and not get a blood hunt called on you. In the story behind Jyhad, there's a difference between mauling a vampire you're fighting to the point where it can't recover, and ambushing it while it's unable to defend itself. The former is acceptable, the latter is not. Just like killing in self-defense vs. premeditated murder in RL... the former is more acceptable, at least from a legal standpoint. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Matt Rollefson

In rec.games.deckmaster aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) writes: >Owen P Reynolds <owen@iastate.edu> wrote: >>Tom Wylie wrote: >>>Actions which give you an enhanced bleed, such as Computer Hacking, can >>>still only be directed against your prey unless the card specifically >>>indicates otherwise. >> Like Computer Hacking, for example? It's a (D) action, which by 13.3.1 >>can be directed against any player. >Read what I said. You can only ever bleed your prey unless a card >*specifically* says you can bleed someone else. Computer Hacking does >*specifically* let you bleed anyone else, so you can't. The <D> is >there because if it wasn't, your predator would be able to block the >action... it is not there to allow you to bleed your predator. Perhaps an example of how such a card would be worded to explicitly permit this would be helpful. The rules indicate that D actions may be used against any Methuselah/minion. This statement contradicts the rules, which is fine, but it would be useful to know under what terms the contradiction would be contradicted, as it were. :) Rollie

Edward S Shaw

In article <33k9cq$g3r@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >(e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. This contradicts the latest version of the FAQ that I've seen. > >Pulled Fangs does count up potential damage, not the amount of damage >actually inflicted during the combat (an oops on my part... too much >Magic on the brain, I guess). So you can play Pulled Fangs even if they prevent all of your damage??? Wierd. > >Actions which give you an enhanced bleed, such as Computer Hacking, can >still only be directed against your prey unless the card specifically >indicates otherwise. That makes much more sense to me than the earlier ruling. > >You must show everyone which card you're playing before they decide >whether to respond to it; you must for example show them which weapon >you're trying to equip a vampire with before they decide whether >or not to intercept. So with political actions do you still show the card but just not the terms of the vote? I'm still a little bit unclear on how much you have to announce on political cards before blocking happens. > >The gradual warming up of the transfers available takes place >even in a two-player game. Then why bother saying that for non multi-player games, you would start at 4 transfers? Is there some sort of Jyhad solitare that I don't know about? Silly. Scott storm@tamsun.tamu.edu

Tom Wylie

Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote: >>Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >>your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >>if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >>(e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >>must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. >This contradicts the latest version of the FAQ that I've seen. This is under disupte. >>Pulled Fangs does count up potential damage, not the amount of damage >>actually inflicted during the combat (an oops on my part... too much >>Magic on the brain, I guess). >So you can play Pulled Fangs even if they prevent all of your damage??? >Wierd. This entire card is under dispute. >>Actions which give you an enhanced bleed, such as Computer Hacking, can >>still only be directed against your prey unless the card specifically >>indicates otherwise. >That makes much more sense to me than the earlier ruling. This is under dispute, too. >>You must show everyone which card you're playing before they decide >>whether to respond to it; you must for example show them which weapon >>you're trying to equip a vampire with before they decide whether >>or not to intercept. >So with political actions do you still show the card but just not the terms >of the vote? I'm still a little bit unclear on how much you have to >announce on political cards before blocking happens. When deciding whether to intercept, they have to know whether it's Camarilla Exemplary, a Parity Shift, or what. They won't yet know the terms of the vote, that is, which vampire will become exemplary, where the shifted pool will go, etc. >>The gradual warming up of the transfers available takes place >>even in a two-player game. >Then why bother saying that for non multi-player games, you would start >at 4 transfers? Is there some sort of Jyhad solitare that I don't know >about? Silly. I have no idea. Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for aahz@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

...Paul

In article <33tdk9$dtj@tamsun.tamu.edu>, Edward S Shaw <storm@tamsun.tamu.edu> wrote: >In article <33k9cq$g3r@perv.hal.com>, Tom Wylie <aahz@hal.COM> wrote: >>Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >>your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >>if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >>(e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >>must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. > >This contradicts the latest version of the FAQ that I've seen. The latest FAQ isn't up to date with this recent official ruling. However, I feel that this interpretation is much closer to the original rules than the answer in the FAQ, which, IMHO, is completely wrong according to the original rules. >>You must show everyone which card you're playing before they decide >>whether to respond to it; you must for example show them which weapon >>you're trying to equip a vampire with before they decide whether >>or not to intercept. > >So with political actions do you still show the card but just not the terms >of the vote? I'm still a little bit unclear on how much you have to >announce on political cards before blocking happens. Here's a common example: You play the Consanguineous Boon political action card. You must show the card to everyone. They may read the text on the card. However, the card says something to the effect of "for every member of the clan of the player's choice"... You DON'T have to tell everyone what clan you're going to choose. >>The gradual warming up of the transfers available takes place >>even in a two-player game. > >Then why bother saying that for non multi-player games, you would start >at 4 transfers? Is there some sort of Jyhad solitare that I don't know >about? Silly. Yes. It's because WotC didn't hire me as an editor... ;) ...Paul -- + + + + + + + + + + + Paul, cleggp@rpi.edu. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD "When doth life leave the weary? 'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul

Red Adept

In article <33l2p3$e8h@usenet.rpi.edu>, cleggp@magritte.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) wrote: >>Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >>your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >>if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >>(e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >>must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. > >So this counters the current FAQ answer, right? Now I'm confused. What >this says here is that if a 0-blood minion comes out of torpor by being >rescued, now it MUST hunt, immediately, where as the FAQ said that it >doesn't. I take it/hope this takes precedence? Paul, I don't think it counters the current FAQ answer. Break it down. :P Start of Minion Phase. All minions that must hunt, do so NOW. Other Minion Actions Vlad rescues Drac from Torpor Drac has no blood and must hunt as his next action Drac can't hunt this turn, it's too late. Drac can't do any other action, since he MUST hunt first. Drac does nothing for his Minion Action this turn. End of Minion Phase. An addendum would be: Next Master Phase, you play something which gives Drac Blood Minion Phase: Drac has Blood, but still must hunt. Anywhere near close, Tom? --Red +----------------------------------------------+---------------------------+ | Looking for Creature Bonds and Earthbinds!!! | redadept@cris.com | | If you'd like to contribute, send me E-mail! +---------------------------+ +----------------------------------------------+ Hail Eris! Fnord! | | Ferrets: Eris' gift to mankind, everyone should be owned by one! | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

...Paul

In article <doKOkGPvd0ZG069yn@cris.com>, Red Adept <redadept@cris.com> wrote: >In article <33l2p3$e8h@usenet.rpi.edu>, >cleggp@magritte.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) wrote: > >>>Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >>>your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. This is true even >>>if it doesn't get in that situation until the middle of the minion phase >>>(e.g., after being rescued from torpor). When the minion phase begins, you >>>must do all required hunting before taking a non-hunting action. >> >>So this counters the current FAQ answer, right? Now I'm confused. What >>this says here is that if a 0-blood minion comes out of torpor by being >>rescued, now it MUST hunt, immediately, where as the FAQ said that it >>doesn't. I take it/hope this takes precedence? > >Paul, I don't think it counters the current FAQ answer. Break it down. :P > >Start of Minion Phase. > All minions that must hunt, do so NOW. > Other Minion Actions > Vlad rescues Drac from Torpor > Drac has no blood and must hunt as his next action > Drac can't hunt this turn, it's too late. > Drac can't do any other action, since he MUST hunt first. > Drac does nothing for his Minion Action this turn. >End of Minion Phase. > >An addendum would be: > Next Master Phase, you play something which gives Drac Blood > Minion Phase: > Drac has Blood, but still must hunt. > >Anywhere near close, Tom? This new ruling says that Drac must hunt as soon as he comes out of Torpor; it's his next action. Why Tom wrote "When the minion phase begins, you must do...." is beyond me, as this seems to contradict, or at least obfuscate the first half of the new rule. In your example, according to the new ruling above, Drac MUST hunt as soon as he comes out of Torpor. That is his next action. For your addendum, that would be incorrect; the Vampyre would have had blood at the beginning of the Minion phase, and so would not be required to hunt. ...Paul -- + + + + + + + + + + + Paul, cleggp@rpi.edu. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD "When doth life leave the weary? 'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul

Owen P Reynolds

>>So with political actions do you still show the card but just not the terms >>of the vote? I'm still a little bit unclear on how much you have to >>announce on political cards before blocking happens. >Here's a common example: You play the Consanguineous Boon political action >card. You must show the card to everyone. They may read the text on the >card. However, the card says something to the effect of "for every member >of the clan of the player's choice"... You DON'T have to tell everyone what >clan you're going to choose. I'm inclined to be even stricter than that -- you _can't_ tell anyone which clan you're going to choose. An example: I play Consanguigous Ouchie (lose 1 pool for each vampire of clan X) and have plenty of votes, but Bob to my left has two Brujah who can both block my action. I would really, really like to be able to assure Bob that I will not be stinging Brujah owners (I just want to knock down the two Tremere-heavy folks across from me, maybe.) This brings up a totally separate topic -- what amount of diplomacy is allowed in a game? For example, in the game Diplomacy, it's perfectly legit to tell player A you plan to hit Brujah, tell player B you plan to hit Tremere and tell player C that if he votes with you, you will have your vampire hunter attack one of player B's vampires. The "no table-talk" draft of the multiplayer rules for Magic says this sort of thing is right out. Based on that, I'd say by telling Bob what clan you plan to hit ahead of time, even publicly, you are either taking advantage of the fact that he doesn't realize this does not commit you, or you're using non-allowed deal-making. The more I think about it, the amount of cooperation allowed needs to be in the rules. Why can't I have a conference with another player who is doing poorly, where we agree to help each other in specific ways until such-and-such condition is met? --

Red Adept

In article <33vjcf$l2d@usenet.rpi.edu>, cleggp@magritte.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) wrote: >In article <doKOkGPvd0ZG069yn@cris.com>, Red Adept <redadept@cris.com> wrote: >>cleggp@magritte.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) wrote: >>>>Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >>>>your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. >> Drac has no blood and must hunt as his next action >> Drac does nothing for his Minion Action this turn. >>End of Minion Phase. >>An addendum would be: >> Next Master Phase, you play something which gives Drac Blood >> Minion Phase: >> Drac has Blood, but still must hunt. >For your addendum, that would be incorrect; the Vampyre would have had blood >at the beginning of the Minion phase, and so would not be required to hunt. Taking my quoted text above as valid, using Magic terms, wouldn't Drac get a "Must hunt for next action" flag on him? So even if he gets blood through other ways, he would still have to hunt because of his previous state? --Red (waiting for Tom to clarify this for us.) +----------------------------------------------+---------------------------+ | Looking for Creature Bonds and Earthbinds!!! | redadept@cris.com | | If you'd like to contribute, send me E-mail! +---------------------------+ +----------------------------------------------+ Hail Eris! Fnord! | | Ferrets: Eris' gift to mankind, everyone should be owned by one! | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Alec Habig

owen@iastate.edu (Owen P Reynolds) writes: > This brings up a totally separate topic -- what amount of diplomacy >is allowed in a game? For example, in the game Diplomacy, it's perfectly >legit to tell player A you plan to hit Brujah, tell player B you plan >to hit Tremere and tell player C that if he votes with you, you will have >your vampire hunter attack one of player B's vampires. > The "no table-talk" draft of the multiplayer rules for Magic says >this sort of thing is right out. Whoa! Where is this rule put forth? It seems to me to be directly contrary to the spirit of the game. Multiplayer games are all _about_ such deal making, and seems to be why the voting cards exist at all. Alec -- Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu http://astrowww.astro.indiana.edu/personnel/ahabig/ Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.

...Paul

In article <QRxOkGPvdSN7069yn@cris.com>, Red Adept <redadept@cris.com> wrote: >In article <33vjcf$l2d@usenet.rpi.edu>, >cleggp@magritte.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) wrote: >>In article <doKOkGPvd0ZG069yn@cris.com>, Red Adept <redadept@cris.com> wrote: >>>cleggp@magritte.its.rpi.edu (...Paul) wrote: > >>>>>Any time a minion finds itself with no blood on itself and untapped during >>>>>your minion phase, it *must* hunt as its next action. > >>> Drac has no blood and must hunt as his next action >>> Drac does nothing for his Minion Action this turn. >>>End of Minion Phase. > >>>An addendum would be: >>> Next Master Phase, you play something which gives Drac Blood >>> Minion Phase: >>> Drac has Blood, but still must hunt. > >>For your addendum, that would be incorrect; the Vampyre would have had blood >>at the beginning of the Minion phase, and so would not be required to hunt. > >Taking my quoted text above as valid, using Magic terms, wouldn't Drac get a >"Must hunt for next action" flag on him? So even if he gets blood through >other ways, he would still have to hunt because of his previous state? No, because the rule is that a Vampyre that starts the MINION phase with 0 blood must hunt. Since, in your addendum, the Vampyre had blood at the beginning of the MINION phase, they would not have to hunt. At least, I'm pretty sure it's "beginning of Minion Phase" and not "beginning of turn". I don't have my book handy, but I'm almost positive that's what it is... ...Paul -- + + + + + + + + + + + Paul, cleggp@rpi.edu. yIlImQo'qu' Don't Panic! alt.galactic-guide yIlaD "When doth life leave the weary? 'Tis not death I fear, but the end of living." -- Paul

Bob Hearn

In article <33lio0$jcg@perv.hal.COM>, aahz@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) wrote: > >This is still a little confusing: "it *must* hunt as its next action". > >Is the vampire forced to hunt or is it only allowed to do the hunt action? > > It has to hunt immediately. I sent back *another* double check on this, > based on the relevant entry in the FAQ, but that was my understanding > of it as of my last discussion on hunting. But... the untap phase is the only mandatory phase. How is this conflict resolved? Presumably you can skip the minion phase, but if you take it, any zero-blood vampires must immediately hunt? An unrelated question: when encountering a vampire in torpor, you can rescue it by sacrificing two blood from some combination of the rescuer and the rescuee. What if it's another Methuselah's vampire? Must the two come from the rescuer in this case, or can you take it from the rescuee whether its controller likes it or not, or can you take it from the rescuee if the controller gives you permission? Does "sacrifice" mean what it does in Magic; that is, can you only sacrifice what you control? If so, it's still unclear to me whether the other Methuslah could opt to sacrifice blood from his vampire to help out. -- Bob Hearn hearn@claris.com