My thoughts on Dark Soveriegns

OK, a few random musings on DS. I bought 20 packs. Same solid cardstock as Jyhad/VteS, same boosters that require a chainsaw to open. Packs contain (from the top) 3 rare, 4 vampire, 8 common. The commons are for the most part good utility cards. The rares, however, vary from wimpy and overpriced to horribly overpowered. DS seems to have caught the 'Homelands disease'; 75% of the cards cost 1 or 2 more blood than they should. Here are some of the nastier cards; (Spoiler space...) Etrius; the Tremere IC, he can steal up to 3 blood from a Tremere as a +1 Stealth (D) action, and he has *superior** Obfuscate!! He will surely be put into NON - Tremere decks as a Tremere hoser. Command of the Harpies; a Political card, if successful strips a Prince of his title. This is BAD; if 2 political decks oppose eack other, victory will go to the fastest, since he can zap a prince as soon as he comes out. Heidelburg Castle, Germany; tap to transfer equipment, blood and retainers between 2 minions you control. I am unsure as to what times this can and cannot be used (Tom??) but if it is usable, saaaay, after an action is blocked but before combat, it's NASTY. Apparition; a Chimerstry combat card, costs 1 blood. Prevents 1 damage (superior; 2) to the vampire _each_ round of combat. I can think of at least one card this would be very powerful with (begins with a T). Spiritual Protector; Giovanni retainer, 1 life, immune to non-aggravated damage. Minions opposing him cannot use equipment! Arika; the Ventrue IC. Basically, your prey's locations all cost 1 pool per round, or else they are burned. Ouch! Ventrue Directorate Assembly; all Ventrue have 1 extra vote. Can you say 'weenie vote deck' boys and girls? Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to swap any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. Puh-lease! I can't imagine how this one slipped by the playtesters. Even Magic doesn't have a permanent that lets you take ANY card back to your hand. Sacrificial Lamb; Obfuscate action, 3 blood, burn a vampire in your torpor (superior; ANY torpor) to give the acting vampire blood equal to the burned vampires capacity, and his equipment. This is not diablerie. Why, oh why, is this an obfuscate card? If there is a Malk player anywhere at the table, as soon as a vamp hits torpor, it will be devoured. Fear of Mekhet; AAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUURRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

tony.r...@swcbbs.com (TONY RICARDI) writes: >Etrius; the Tremere IC, he can steal up to 3 blood from a Tremere as a >+1 Stealth (D) action, and he has *superior** Obfuscate!! He will >surely be put into NON - Tremere decks as a Tremere hoser. He would be an AWFULLY expensive Tremere hoser... I doubt he'll find his way into very many non-Tremere decks... There are easier ways to deal with the Tremere... >Command of the Harpies; a Political card, if successful strips a Prince >of his title. This is BAD; if 2 political decks oppose eack other, >victory will go to the fastest, since he can zap a prince as soon as he >comes out. This card isn't any worse than a Praxis Siezure... You can bring out a Praxis to contest the opposing vamp... I kinda like this card. It's very much in the vein of the Role-playing game. Kindred are always looking for ways to overthrow other kindred. >Apparition; a Chimerstry combat card, costs 1 blood. Prevents 1 damage >(superior; 2) to the vampire _each_ round of combat. I can think of at >least one card this would be very powerful with (begins with a T). This card is balanced out by the fact that Ravnos can't do much damage... even preventing 2 doesn't help much against a Superior Cauldron or 2. Or Growing Fury for that matter (With a Torn Signpost from the first round and Crusher having played them both with +1 hand Damage...) >Spiritual Protector; Giovanni retainer, 1 life, immune to non-aggravated >damage. Minions opposing him cannot use equipment! Again, not a big deal... He's awfully expensive. Basically gives ONE Giovanni the ability to stand up to a Celerity/Gun deck... >Arika; the Ventrue IC. Basically, your prey's locations all cost 1 pool >per round, or else they are burned. Ouch! She's pretty tough... Not easy to kill either, with Fortitude... Does make sense based on the role-playing game though. Ventrue control everything!!! >Ventrue Directorate Assembly; all Ventrue have 1 extra vote. Can you >say 'weenie vote deck' boys and girls? This will only do a weenie vote deck good if you have all weenie Ventrue. And all these cards are pretty easily removed... >Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to swap >any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. Puh-lease! I >can't imagine how this one slipped by the playtesters. Even Magic >doesn't have a permanent that lets you take ANY card back to your hand. This is only at +1 Stealth... Anyone with half a brain has some intercept in their deck... >Sacrificial Lamb; Obfuscate action, 3 blood, burn a vampire in your >torpor (superior; ANY torpor) to give the acting vampire blood equal to >the burned vampires capacity, and his equipment. This is not diablerie. >Why, oh why, is this an obfuscate card? If there is a Malk player >anywhere at the table, as soon as a vamp hits torpor, it will be >devoured. Adds a different element to the game eh? Also, I don't think this action has any stealth on it. So a Malk player has to decide if he wants to use his stealth to use this Action or to bleed. Pretty easy decision if it were my Malks... Chris rho...@medicine.wustl.edu

rhodesc@medicine (Chris Rhodes) wrote: >>Etrius; the Tremere IC, he can steal up to 3 blood from a Tremere as a >>+1 Stealth (D) action, and he has *superior** Obfuscate!! He will >>surely be put into NON - Tremere decks as a Tremere hoser. > >He would be an AWFULLY expensive Tremere hoser... I doubt he'll find >his way into very many non-Tremere decks... There are easier ways to >deal with the Tremere... man... I didnt read his sp. ability... dang I have no problem putting out 10 bloods and sucking the drain... hes going in my apathy deck fer sure thats even better than ASTRID's hose ability! >>Ventrue Directorate Assembly; all Ventrue have 1 extra vote. Can you >>say 'weenie vote deck' boys and girls? > >This will only do a weenie vote deck good if you have all weenie Ventrue. >And all these cards are pretty easily removed... Yea but it does also hook up "non-weenie ventrue vote decks..." as well.. I like it... > >>Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to swap >>any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. Puh-lease! I >>can't imagine how this one slipped by the playtesters. Even Magic >>doesn't have a permanent that lets you take ANY card back to your hand. > >This is only at +1 Stealth... Anyone with half a brain has some intercept >in their deck... I've only lost one game and the only intersept I have is the +1 on the Tel. Mis. card and that sure isnt why its in my deck... > >>Sacrificial Lamb; Obfuscate action, 3 blood, burn a vampire in your >>torpor (superior; ANY torpor) to give the acting vampire blood equal to >>the burned vampires capacity, and his equipment. This is not diablerie. >>Why, oh why, is this an obfuscate card? If there is a Malk player >>anywhere at the table, as soon as a vamp hits torpor, it will be >>devoured. > >Adds a different element to the game eh? Also, I don't think this action >has any stealth on it. So a Malk player has to decide if he wants to use >his stealth to use this Action or to bleed. Pretty easy decision if it >were my Malks... I play my malk deck as if I were malk so I use it for sure... sometime with sometimes without stealth... you never can quite tell... with malks.. (course I cant think of when my malks ever won a game... but I have fun with em... nice change from the apathy deck...) ~mage bob

In article <4aklva$9...@cerberus-138.wustl.edu>, rhodesc@medicine (Chris Rhodes) writes: >tony.r...@swcbbs.com (TONY RICARDI) writes: > >>Command of the Harpies; a Political card, if successful strips a Prince >>of his title. This is BAD; if 2 political decks oppose eack other, >>victory will go to the fastest, since he can zap a prince as soon as he >>comes out. > >This card isn't any worse than a Praxis Siezure... You can bring out a >Praxis to contest the opposing vamp... Only if you've got the right one. >>Apparition; a Chimerstry combat card, costs 1 blood. Prevents 1 damage >>(superior; 2) to the vampire _each_ round of combat. I can think of at >>least one card this would be very powerful with (begins with a T). > >This card is balanced out by the fact that Ravnos can't do much damage... Can't do much damage? Have you been following the business on Horrid Reality? (Oh look! Another Assault Rifle! Imagine that!) >>Arika; the Ventrue IC. Basically, your prey's locations all cost 1 pool >>per round, or else they are burned. Ouch! > >She's pretty tough... Not easy to kill either, with Fortitude... Does >make sense based on the role-playing game though. Ventrue control >everything!!! Even if the Ventrue control everything in the RPG, that's no reason to put in spoilers in the card game. >>Ventrue Directorate Assembly; all Ventrue have 1 extra vote. Can you >>say 'weenie vote deck' boys and girls? > >This will only do a weenie vote deck good if you have all weenie Ventrue. >And all these cards are pretty easily removed... All weenie of <pick clan> is pretty easy to manage - just use Embrace and 3rd Traditions. Consider the effect with Consanginous Boon, for example. >>Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to swap >>any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. Puh-lease! I >>can't imagine how this one slipped by the playtesters. Even Magic >>doesn't have a permanent that lets you take ANY card back to your hand. > >This is only at +1 Stealth... Anyone with half a brain has some intercept >in their deck... First of all, one of the great things about Jyhad is that you DON'T have to have intercept in every deck. It's a sad loss of variety (and one of the problems with 4cl) if you do. Second, she has Obfuscate anyway. >>Sacrificial Lamb; Obfuscate action, 3 blood, burn a vampire in your >>torpor (superior; ANY torpor) to give the acting vampire blood equal to >>the burned vampires capacity, and his equipment. This is not diablerie. >>Why, oh why, is this an obfuscate card? If there is a Malk player >>anywhere at the table, as soon as a vamp hits torpor, it will be >>devoured. > >Adds a different element to the game eh? Also, I don't think this action >has any stealth on it. So a Malk player has to decide if he wants to use >his stealth to use this Action or to bleed. Pretty easy decision if it >were my Malks... Malks can have plenty of stealth if they want it.

>>>Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to swap >>>any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. Puh-lease! I >>>can't imagine how this one slipped by the playtesters. Even Magic >>>doesn't have a permanent that lets you take ANY card back to your hand. Magic is a completely different game, If you play NL then you might not find this to helpful,especially if the cards in your ash heap are the same as the ones in your hand. Errol T.

-> Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to -> swap any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. -> Puh-lease! I can't imagine how this one slipped by the -> playtesters. Even Magic doesn't have a permanent that lets you -> take ANY card back to your hand. -> -> Magic is a completely different game, If you play NL then you might -> not find this to helpful,especially if the cards in your ash heap are -> the same as the ones in your hand. Uhhh... I was saying that Carlotta is TOO powerful; you can use a burned card over and over and over... my point about Magic is, that even though Magic is much more of an 'anything goes' type game, even it does not have a permanent that lets you bring back ANY card you wish, over and over. I have seen (nay, built) many icky Magic decks based on graveyard manipulation; I found the 'once its gone, its gone' approach of Jyhad/VteS to be refreshing.

TONY RICARDI thoughtfully stated: : -> Magic is a completely different game, If you play NL then you might : -> not find this to helpful,especially if the cards in your ash heap are : -> the same as the ones in your hand. : Uhhh... I was saying that Carlotta is TOO powerful; you can use a burned : card over and over and over... my point about Magic is, that even : though Magic is much more of an 'anything goes' type game, even it does : not have a permanent that lets you bring back ANY card you wish, over : and over. I have seen (nay, built) many icky Magic decks based on : graveyard manipulation; I found the 'once its gone, its gone' approach : of Jyhad/VteS to be refreshing. I think you missed his point: because without card limits you can put cards in your deck which tend to be the ones you use, then you might never need a card in your graveyard. But Carlotta might still be useful, because at times even with a balanced deck design, you might still not get enough of a particular card you need at a certain time. Ewok -- //\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\\//\\ / Ewok Juan Burwell \ \ jmbu...@unix.amherst.edu jmbu...@amherst.edu / \\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\///\\//

tony.r...@swcbbs.com (TONY RICARDI) wrote: >-> Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to >-> swap any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. >-> Puh-lease! I can't imagine how this one slipped by the >-> playtesters. Even Magic doesn't have a permanent that lets you >-> take ANY card back to your hand. >-> >-> Magic is a completely different game, If you play NL then you might >-> not find this to helpful,especially if the cards in your ash heap are >-> the same as the ones in your hand. > >Uhhh... I was saying that Carlotta is TOO powerful; you can use a burned >card over and over and over... my point about Magic is, that even >though Magic is much more of an 'anything goes' type game, even it does >not have a permanent that lets you bring back ANY card you wish, over >and over. I have seen (nay, built) many icky Magic decks based on >graveyard manipulation; I found the 'once its gone, its gone' approach >of Jyhad/VteS to be refreshing. I know what the hell your saying, and if you read my post properly then you would know that I was telling you that she is not as powerful as you think, and that magic with its type of game could not have a card like this without it being a spoiler. Errol T.

TONY RICARDI (tony.r...@swcbbs.com) wrote: : -> Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to : -> swap any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. : -> Puh-lease! I can't imagine how this one slipped by the : -> playtesters. Even Magic doesn't have a permanent that lets you : -> take ANY card back to your hand. : -> : -> Magic is a completely different game, If you play NL then you might : -> not find this to helpful,especially if the cards in your ash heap are : -> the same as the ones in your hand. : Uhhh... I was saying that Carlotta is TOO powerful; you can use a burned : card over and over and over... my point about Magic is, that even : though Magic is much more of an 'anything goes' type game, even it does : not have a permanent that lets you bring back ANY card you wish, over : and over. Tony's point was as follows (if I understand him correctly); Magic has 4cl built into it/imposed upon it, as well as mane cards of which you may have only one. A permanent which allowed you to bring back any card in your crypt _would_ be incredibly unbalancing in Magic, as it would effectively allow you to have an unlimited supply of the 'one-only' cards - which are one-only specifically because they are so powerful. Jyhad, OTOH, has no such limits. If I _want_ to have 11 Immortal Grapples in my deck, then nothing is stopping me - and I will likely do just that if that is the sort of deck I'm building. I will also include as many of the other support cards (torn signpost, Fists of Fury, etc.) that I think I need, to ensure that I always have one on hand whenever it is needed. For this reason, the cards in my ash-heap are likely going to be quite similar to the cards in my hand, as my entire deck was designed to ensure that I never run out of those (types of) cards. In this case, a permanent which allows me to re-use a card I have already used is not of much use to me. If the artificial 4cl is imposed on Jyhad, then the card becomes much more useful as I now _cannot_ put in as many of a given card as I want; I can only have 4 of any card which I determine as integral to my deck concept. Thus, every time I can use this permanent to gain another of these 'integral cards' from my ash-heap, I gain a significant advantage over everyone else at the table since they are all still limited to 4 of _their_ integral cards (whatever they may be). Just another argument against card-limits... Shane H.W. Travis | I try to take one day at a time, tra...@duke.usask.ca | but sometimes several days attack at once. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Ashleigh Brilliant

Hear ye! Hear ye! <4avgig$r...@amhux3.amherst.edu>, jmbu...@unix.amherst.edu (Ewok), the great and noble sovereign, articulated: #TONY RICARDI thoughtfully stated: #: -> Magic is a completely different game, If you play NL then you might #: -> not find this to helpful,especially if the cards in your ash heap are #: -> the same as the ones in your hand. #: Uhhh... I was saying that Carlotta is TOO powerful; you can use a burned #: card over and over and over... my point about Magic is, that even #: though Magic is much more of an 'anything goes' type game, even it does #: not have a permanent that lets you bring back ANY card you wish, over #: and over. I have seen (nay, built) many icky Magic decks based on #: graveyard manipulation; I found the 'once its gone, its gone' approach #: of Jyhad/VteS to be refreshing. # #I think you missed his point: because without card limits you can put cards #in your deck which tend to be the ones you use, then you might never need #a card in your graveyard. But Carlotta might still be useful, because at times #even with a balanced deck design, you might still not get enough of a #particular card you need at a certain time. what this I see? could it be that people are discovering that we can now fiddle with the graveyards and ash heaps? could it become necessary to put a 4CL into practice to thwart this evil threat so that power decks do not destroy the game? Oh pray tell!! Can it be!!?? I can see it now... With this kind of discard manipulation we will see the same kind of "looping" decks that caused Magic to fail... WAIT!!! Didn't someone just post that!!?? What was I thinking?!? Sheesh!! I almost forgot myself... For minute there I forgot I was in the land of "NO 4CL". Well now... things may be in for a change. hmmmm... ;) -- Greg Zuvich |gzu...@symantec.com "Put your soul in the water and join me for a swim tonight." Live - Mental Jewelry "Beauty of Gray"

Nice try Greg but in 4cl she would become pretty powerful,I said under NL then she would not be as powerful as Tony had thought. Errol T.

Greg Zuvich wrote:: (re: Carlotta) >what this I see? could it be that people are discovering that we can now fiddle >with the graveyards and ash heaps? could it become necessary to put a 4CL >into practice to thwart this evil threat. No, card limits do nothing for graveyard fiddling. However the reverse is true - if you have card limits, graveyard fiddling will weaken or nullify them. So cards like Carlotta would make card limits even more counterproductive.

In article <4b0s2l$o...@bert.compusmart.ab.ca>, Errol T <etre...@compusmart.ab.ca> writes: >Nice try Greg but in 4cl she would become pretty powerful,I said under NL >then she would not be as powerful as Tony had thought. Yeah, NL, these graveyard diggers don't have the obvious Magic abuse of piling on the great or restricted cards. In Jyhad her best use would be with excellent but limited use cards, where she could pick the nastiest and cycle (sorta) at will. How good would she be with a supply of clan hosers?

Greg Zuvich thoughtfully stated: what this I see? could it be that people are discovering that we can now fid with the graveyards and ash heaps? could it become necessary to put a 4CL into practice to thwart this evil threat so that power decks do not destroy the game Oh pray tell!! Can it be!!?? I can see it now... With this kind of discard manipulation we will see the same kind of "looping" decks that caused Magic to : fail... WAIT!!! Didn't someone just post that!!?? What was I thinking?!? Sheesh!! I almost forgot myself... For minute there I forgot I was in the land of "NO 4CL". Well now... things may be in for a change. hmmmm... ;) -------------- As I explained: Carlotta does not allow you to do anything you couldn't really do just by putting a lot of one card in a deck. If you were playing 4CL, she would suddenly become VERY useful (you could grab a majesty every turn for example). If anything, she would become a spoiler for 4CL games. Not that I disagree intensely with your sentiment on 4CL in general, just with any evidence that Carlotta provides in support of 4CL. [ quoted text not captured ]

gzu...@symantec.com (Greg Zuvich) writes: >Hear ye! Hear ye! <4avgig$r...@amhux3.amherst.edu>, jmbu...@unix.amherst.edu >(Ewok), the great and noble sovereign, articulated: >#I think you missed his point: because without card limits you can put cards >#in your deck which tend to be the ones you use, then you might never need >#a card in your graveyard. But Carlotta might still be useful, because at times >#even with a balanced deck design, you might still not get enough of a >#particular card you need at a certain time. >what this I see? could it be that people are discovering that we can now fiddle >with the graveyards and ash heaps? could it become necessary to put a 4CL into >practice to thwart this evil threat so that power decks do not destroy the game? >Oh pray tell!! Can it be!!?? I can see it now... With this kind of discard >manipulation we will see the same kind of "looping" decks that caused Magic to >fail... WAIT!!! Didn't someone just post that!!?? What was I thinking?!? >Sheesh!! I almost forgot myself... For minute there I forgot I was in the land of >"NO 4CL". Well now... things may be in for a change. hmmmm... ;) What is this stream-of-consciousness trying to say? (MtG Graveyard === VtES ashheap) Mucking w/ ashheaps -> 4CL more necessary? hardly. 4CL -> mucking with ashheap necessary (to get more benefit from the 'good' cards). Without card limits, who cares if you can go to the graveyard to get that 'spoiler' card? You could always simply put more of the 'spoiler' card in your library and save yourself the trouble of rummaging through the graveyard. All graveyard manipulation does is make 4CL more money-intensive, since now, in addition to stocking rare equivalents of restricted commons, you have to stock the ashheap diggers to re-use those rares. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | These opinions are mine and http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | are subject to card text. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Mage Bob <Denni...@crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us> writes: >rhodesc@medicine (Chris Rhodes) wrote: >>He would be an AWFULLY expensive Tremere hoser... I doubt he'll find >>his way into very many non-Tremere decks... There are easier ways to >>deal with the Tremere... >man... I didnt read his sp. ability... dang I have no problem putting >out 10 bloods and sucking the drain... hes going in my apathy deck fer >sure thats even better than ASTRID's hose ability! I love people who Minion Tap their vampires really low and then think I'm going to let them restore them... Doesn't happen very often around here. Unless you have a TON of stealth. Now with the Brujah able to inflict Aggravated damage that makes burning low vamps a helluva lot easier. >>>Carlotta Giovanni; can spend 1 blood, as a +1 stealth action, to swap >>>any library card in your ash heap for one in your hand. Puh-lease! I >>>can't imagine how this one slipped by the playtesters. Even Magic >>>doesn't have a permanent that lets you take ANY card back to your hand. >> >>This is only at +1 Stealth... Anyone with half a brain has some intercept >>in their deck... >I've only lost one game and the only intersept I have is the +1 on the >Tel. Mis. card and that sure isnt why its in my deck... You must be playing with alot of people that don't know how to play... You'd never make in our group. You can't Telepathically Misdirect a Bum's Rush... How do you avoid combat? What saves you when you have no intercept and people are equipping with Flame Throwers and Assault Rifles? >~mage bob Chris rho...@medicine.wustl.edu

>You must be playing with alot of people that don't know how to play... >You'd never make in our group. You can't Telepathically Misdirect a >Bum's Rush... How do you avoid combat? What saves you when you have no >intercept and people are equipping with Flame Throwers and Assault Rifles? Majesty, Majesty, Majesty

[ quoted text not captured ] You know, now those suckers are limited to two per deck don't ya?

>> Majesty, Majesty, Majesty >You know, now those suckers are limited to two per deck don't ya? I don't see any patroling tournament judges coming along to disqualify me. Are the Jyhad police going to come to my house and arrest me? I don't use Majesty in a bad way.

[ quoted text not captured ] You'd be surprised. Your opponent may be a Tremere Ghoul. How do you know there isn't a Nosfreatu looking over your shoulder? Me? I think the Rules Team is a bunch of stuffy Ventrue trying to control the game. And the playtesters are all Malkavians! No wonder they have discrepancies! ;) -- Geoffrey "Gofe" Schaller "Laugh, and the world laughs with you dr...@libertynet.org Weep, and you weep alone. 1831 Canterbury Road For the sad old Earth Abington, PA 19001 Must borrow its mirth (215) 886-7999 But has troubles enough of its own." http://www.libertynet.org/~drake/

On 6 Jan 1996 dj...@ttacs1.ttu.edu wrote: > In article <dhoffman.9...@cris.com>, dhof...@cris.com (Daniel Hoffman) writes: > >>You must be playing with alot of people that don't know how to play... > >>You'd never make in our group. You can't Telepathically Misdirect a > >>Bum's Rush... How do you avoid combat? What saves you when you have no > >>intercept and people are equipping with Flame Throwers and Assault Rifles? > > > > Majesty, Majesty, Majesty > > You know, now those suckers are limited to two per deck don't ya? Most people I've talked to find fault at a 2CL for offensive votes and untaps. In the card-limit camp, they feel that this 2 card-limit is just not necessary. In the no-limit camp, they feel that the individual cards should be tweaked. In both camps, the general consensus is that voting is neutered. Ignore the DC tournament rules. A quick question: Does anyone out there use DC rules? "I can send and receive e-mail even over the Internet"-aol commercial @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$ # Adrian Sullivan sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu Spoutingly yours 8^) # $ GAT/CS/O/WS R+++* tv&--- b++(+++)&+ t X++&-- 5->? e+*>++++ PS+&-+ @ # PE&++&- C(+++)$ UX+>+++$ N++(+) K+>++++ w---$>? M++$ r(+) y*+? 3.1# @#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$@#$

Peace be with you all, Please, disregard Geoffrey's post. There are no such things as vampires. It is a silly superstition. You may sleep safely at night. dr...@libertynet.org (Geoffrey Schaller) wrote: >You'd be surprised. Your opponent may be a Tremere Ghoul. How do you >know there isn't a Nosfreatu looking over your shoulder? > >Me? I think the Rules Team is a bunch of stuffy Ventrue trying to >control the game. And the playtesters are all Malkavians! No wonder >they have discrepancies! {To Geoffrey} [Be quiet, you fool! You're endangering the Masquerade!] Nil carborundum illigitimi, James R. McClure Jr. The OS/2 Apostle <insert disclaimer here> P.S.: this was a joke (for those of you who are humor impared)

In article <Pine.NXT.3.91.960110134604.331B-100000@pentode>, The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> writes: > On 6 Jan 1996 dj...@ttacs1.ttu.edu wrote: > >> In article <dhoffman.9...@cris.com>, dhof...@cris.com (Daniel Hoffman) writes: >> >>You must be playing with alot of people that don't know how to play... >> >>You'd never make in our group. You can't Telepathically Misdirect a >> >>Bum's Rush... How do you avoid combat? What saves you when you have no >> >>intercept and people are equipping with Flame Throwers and Assault Rifles? >> > >> > Majesty, Majesty, Majesty >> >> You know, now those suckers are limited to two per deck don't ya? > > Most people I've talked to find fault at a 2CL for offensive votes and > untaps. In the card-limit camp, they feel that this 2 card-limit is just > not necessary. In the no-limit camp, they feel that the individual cards > should be tweaked. In both camps, the general consensus is that voting > is neu tered. Ignore the DC tournament rules. Well, I built an entire deck around Majesty's and it REALLY was potent. And then the ruling came out (I got ahold of the rules, rather) and so I had to completely strip out the guts of my deck and rebuild it. Since then, it has won perhaps twice (and I play quite frequently). Oh, BTW, I had 13 of them in my deck. [ quoted text not captured ]

On 14 Jan 1996 dj...@ttacs1.ttu.edu wrote: > In article <Pine.NXT.3.91.960110134604.331B-100000@pentode>, The Corrupter <sull...@cslab.uwlax.edu> writes: > > On 6 Jan 1996 dj...@ttacs1.ttu.edu wrote: [Majesty and it's limitations by Duelist Convocation] > > > > Most people I've talked to find fault at a 2CL for offensive votes and > > untaps. In the card-limit camp, they feel that this 2 card-limit is just > > not necessary. In the no-limit camp, they feel that the individual cards > > should be tweaked. In both camps, the general consensus is that voting > > is neutered. Ignore the DC tournament rules. > > Well, I built an entire deck around Majesty's and it REALLY was potent. > And then the ruling came out (I got ahold of the rules, rather) and so I had to > completely strip out the guts of my deck and rebuild it. Since then, it has > won perhaps twice (and I play quite frequently). Oh, BTW, I had 13 of them in > my deck. Majesty is not That Bad when you do not allow repeat actions. Majesty can be hosed by Immortal Grapple, Psyche, Hidden Lurker, Fast Reactions, Thoughts Betrayed. Without the repeat actions, it becomes more defensive (as it should be). Ignore the Duelist Convocation ruling and play without vote push and repeated actions. (Just a suggestion ;) [ quoted text not captured ]