Alas, our Prince doesn't seem to be on this forum, so here's my
exceedingly verbose account of the weekend's shenanigans.
We had two tourneys - Saturday and Sunday.
Saturday had 9 people turn up. I played a !Nosferatu rush deck just
for the hell of it. I figured I'd played stealthy cheese for two of
the last three tourneys, so I might as well give pure combat a crack.
Turns out a few other lads had the same idea. The decks were as
follows:
Jason - !Nos POT rush
Steve V - weenie POT rush
Craig - weenie ANI rush
Jim - Type 1/2 Nos Vote/bloat
Stuart - !Ventrue vote/bleed
Steve - PRE/CHIM bleed
Ross - !Brujah POT/OBT toolbox
Dave - !Malk Derange/toolbox
Cameron - Type 1 Malk Derange/Bleed
I didn't really see much of the other tables, so I'll only describe
mine.
First round saw me with the !Malk deck as my predator and the damn
weenie ANI deck as my prey. As you can probably guess, it played
Carrion Crows and Aid from Bats with Terror Frenzies to stop me
maneuvering to close. Frustrating combat, at least to the mind of
anyone playing a close range combat deck ;) which I took great
pleasure in occasionally thumping whenever I picked up a Drawing out
the Beast or Sewer Lid [legacies from the nights of playing a friend's
frustratingly cowardly Ahrimanes "combat" deck] But truth be told, the
weenies gave a little better than they got. I crippled my predator in
a couple of turns, rushing and de-fanging Virgil, then rampaging
Kite's secure haven and teaching him a lesson in spankification. The
next few turns were spent getting hit by bats and crows, getting Fifth
Trads put on my vamps by my grand prey [Nos vote/bloat], and
occasionally ripping an ANI weenie a new poop-shute. 10 much needed
pool was gained by a cross table rush against my grand predator, who
had an anathema put on Francois by my grand prey.
Niiiice.
I eventually oust my prey [death to cowards!] and it comes down to my
former grand prey [who has easily ousted the now Francois-less
PRE/CHIM deck, and the crippled !Malks] and I. I throw everything I
have at him, but he pulls an amazing run of cards [top decking a
brilliant run of FORT cards, plus a Giant's Blood when he ran out of
blood on his remaining Prince]. I'm thinking I still might be able to
pull it off - he has a Fame on his [once again] empty and Legendary
Prince Selma, a healthy Calebros and 1 pool. I'm out of deck, have 2
pool, 2 minions, with one untapped. Next turn I can rush, hit Selma
for two point with Beast, and it's game over. The most Jim can bleed
for this turn is one, because even though she has a Blood doll, Jimmy
only has one pool - Selma has to hunt this turn. But, the jammy bugger
draws a Minion Tap, MTs Calebros, Dolls the blood onto Selma and ousts
me with a stealthy legendary bleed. Very nice. 1vp to me. 4 vp to nos
vote/bloat. But it was a fun game - right down to the last cards.
2nd round went much better, with me whalloping my PRE/CHIM prey
[torporing Francois again - take that, Frenchie!] and neutralising my
!Brujah predator in around four turns. I allow one on my prey's
minions to live, and he very kindly bleeds his weenie POT prey for
significant amounts with Fata Morganas and Legal Manips before I have
my wicked way with his last vamp and oust him. My !Ventrue
grandpredator has been severely beaten on by the POT weenies, but
ousts my predator, the !Brujah with stealth bleeds. I mop the floor
with the POT weenies - while we both hit for four or five a piece, my
slightly higher cap crypt means my minions live to Taste of Vitae
while his 3 pointers go to torpor. I oust the weenies, and shortly
thereafter oust the !ventrue for 4 vp. Goooooo !Nos!
3rd round saw me being bled by the PRE/CHIM bleeder, who was by now
pretty annoyed at; a] Being on the same table as me every game, and b]
me rushing and wasting Francois every game. I was bleeding the
!Ventrue, who were bleeding the thrice-cursed ANI weenies. My predator
pulls out Francois, and I immediately rush and torpor him, leaving him
with no fangs. Serves him right for wearing that stupid beret. My
predator TOTALLY cracks the shits, and immediately starts transferring
out. Three turns later, he has ousted himself giving the ANI weenies 6
pool and a free vp.
With Raoul Julia quotes buzzing in my head ["Dirty pool, old man"] I
look with horror at the chattering ANI horde that's now on my back.
I still manage to hold off the mob reasonably with the help of DotB
and Sewer lids for a turn or two. Knowing I can probably take the
!Ventrue but have little chance of ousting the ANI horde alone, I cut
a deal with my prey not to bleed until the ANI biatches are dead.
Between the two of us, we lay the downtown docktown beat-down on the
ANI weenies. However, my [admirably] treacherous prey then passes a
Meddling of Semsith against me, resulting in my finely tuned combat
machine being almost completely shut down. Without the cycle to keep
the combat alive, the !Nos dream dies in a hail of KRC and stealth DOM
bleed. 0vp for me, 3 vp for the !Ventrue. Cursed Semsith!
Final seating is as follows: Me bleeding Malk SB, bleeding !Ventrue,
bleeding Nos vote/bloat, bleeding the god-damned ANI weenies, who JUST
scraped through to the finals, bleeding . . . you guessed it . . . .
little old me.
The final does not go well. My Nos grand predator, while helping out
with the occasional Fifth tradition, does nothing substantial to put
actual pressure on the ANI deck. As a result, I soon have six minions
on my back. I torpor my prey's Lucian and rip his fangs in short
order, but am unable to put in the killing blow because of the ANI
pressure ["They came from . . . behind!!"]. I torpor a few minions,
but they're quickly rescued and my grand predator fails to draw any
2nd trads to block. He curses passionately enough for me to not hate
him for it however. The ANI horde has 5 Aid from Bats in his hand, and
Craig draws six more in a row [I shit you not. ELEVEN] putting Beast
and Olivia into torpor neatly in one turn. Beast gets eaten - Nigel
curses and vows vengeance for his leather-faced comrade in arms, but
is contested shortly thereafter. It all goes to hell in a handbasket
while my Malk prey sits there breathing a sigh of relief, looking at
the cards I could have annihilated his minions with go to waste on my
ANI predator. I die piteously, cursing the skies. However, shenanigans
follow thereafter, with an accidentally illegal attempt to withdraw by
the !Ventrue not being spotted by anyone for a turn, and the ANI
weenies turning and annihilating the Nos under the impression that the
!Ventrue were withdrawing. It turned brown, and though the !Ventrue
won the day, everyone concluded it wasn't under the most ideal of
circumstances.
Thoughts and contemplations: Combat is for mugs. So much can go wrong
in a tourney situation that I don't know if I'll bring a deck like
this to a tourney again. Still chaps, it was rollicking good fun
beating that damned froggie Francios into torpor every game, what? : )
Day 2.
Feeling ornery about my !Nossie terrorizer deck failing to whallop all
challengers, I decide to blow the dust off my most trusted weapon. No,
not Lasombra S/B deck as some might suspect. Nay. "Today," I thought
to myself, "Today the Ventrue shall spank panties."
Given time constraints, today's tourney is only a two round affair.
Players:
Jason - Ventrue vote/bloat panty spanker
Steve V - Gargoyles/Muaziz nastiness
Craig - weenie Saturday night special [he likes his long range
weenies, this boy]
Jim - Even bigger Neo Nos Vote/bloat [centred around Harrod and the
much hated Elison]
Stuart - Samedi/Nos
Steve B - Tremere
Ross - Ravnos CHIM/gun/rush
Dave - Blood Brothers
Cameron - Nos weenie bleed
Andy - Lasombra Vote/SB
Andrew - Tzimisce block everything/achieve nothing stupidity
Rich - !Nos toolbox
Deisel - Tzimisce toolbox
Aaron - Samedi/Nos
Again, I'll only describe my own tables.
Round 1 saw me bleeding the Blood brothers, bleeding the Gargoyles,
bleeding Aaron's Samedi/Nos, bleeding the most annoying Tzimisce deck
I've ever seen, bleeding me. Things start out relatively slow, and
soon get much slower when I realise that, whilst my predator seems to
wake up and intercept everything I or my Grand Predator does, he then
fails to do anything except maneuver to long range and end combat with
inferior Meld with the Lands. He then puts Millicent into play, which
slows everyone down even further. I raise an eyebrow, yet say nothing.
A Kiss of Ra on Meshenka does little to dissuade my predator from
blocking everything I do and then doing nothing in the resulting
combat. He recruits a War Ghoul which he sends at my Arika every turn,
only to have her Skin of Steel all the damage or Majesty and untap,
chuckling. I have deflections in my hand. I allow Meshenka to put out
a Pulse of Canaille, but then my predator doesn't bleed. He doesn't
bleed me once, the ENTIRE game.
I become . . . annoyed.
I ask what the hell his deck actually does, aside from block. He
stares at me for a moment, then sends the War Ghoul in for another
crack at Arika ["I hit you for four." "Skin of Steel. Do you see where
this is going?"] The Blood Brothers and Gargoyles understandably fight
each other to a total standstill, but that saucy strumpet Muaziz is
still hurting the Samedi. Time winds down. I realise we're going to
time out because of that god-damned Millicent and this uber impotent
blocker on my tail. I get increasingly frustrated. The Tzimisce wastes
his intercept on blocking Nos hunts and then ending combat with Meld
with the Lands ["What's this?" I think. "Has he actually run out of
intercept?"] Then I play a Kindred Restructure. I position myself to
be bleeding the weakened Samedi, hoping to mop up the Tzimisce quickly
thereafter. My last vote of the round is an Ancilla Empowerment. But,
frustrated spanker that I am, I fail to realize that it costs you a
pool for every MINION you control, not VAMPIRE. The War Ghoul, being a
minion, costs my now-grand prey 1 more pool than I had accounted for,
resulting in my vote ousting him, and my previously weakened samedi
prey gaining 6 pool. I curse my stupidity - still, it's one of those
mistakes you only ever make once. I hit my prey as hard as I can with
my last untapped minion, but the 6 pool provides enough of a buffer
that I can't oust. I curse the Tzimisce deck. I curse God. I curse
myself. No-one cares.
Result: Time out. 1vp to Samedi/Nos. 0.5 vp to everyone else.
Round 2. During the lunch break, I'm sitting with Jim, having managed
to catch a few glimpses of his Nos Vote machine in action [he swept
the entire table in his first round]. I say "I bet you a million bucks
we'll be sitting on the same table, Jimmy, my lad." He nods and
agrees, quietly contemplating whilst chewing his Thai noodle, which is
his way.
Sure enough, when we walk upstairs, I'm sitting at the same frickin'
table as the Nos machine. My shoulders slump. Having only scored 0.5vp
in the first round, I realise I'm in deep, deep brown. Seating: me
bleeding Deisel's Tzimisce [More Auspex! Whoo Hoo!] bleeding Ravnos
rush, bleeding Nos Vote/Bloat, bleeding weenie Nos SB, bleeding me.
I am bled for 6 at stealth by Nos weenies in the first three turns. I
realise I'm in deeper brown than I imagined. Flee. Yes. Pulling out
Sir Walter, I cut a deal with my Tzimisce prey - he has Sascha out,
and her 3 prisci votes means I can push my votes past the newly
emerged Harrod, who is staring at me balefully across the table,
anticipating smashing me in the goolies. I give my prey choice of
seating. "Anywhere on the table" I cry, like some second rate
real-estate agent, "so long as I get the fuck away from THAT!" [I
point at the SB weenies with hatred]. My prey agrees to the deal,
swapping his prey - the Ravnos FORT/gun rush [which he fears for good
reason, having seen it burn/eat three Tremere on it's first round
outing] with the weenies [which I guess he wants to punish for being
so cheesey]. He cares little for me as his predator - given the amount
of Auspex he plays, I suppose he figures he has no fear of my votes.
New seating: me, Tzimisce, Weenie Nos, Vote Nos, Ravnos.
That rhymes.
I realise the Nos vote machine will kill me soon. I know Elison is in
the post, and he'll be Butch to my Walter's Bitch on every vote.
However, I have a curve-ball. A secret weapon, if you will - the
Kindred Coersion I've been holding since my opening hand. Now, I also
know there's an Elder Kindred Network in my deck somewhere - I
replaced two Govern the Unaligneds with the EKN and KC the night
before, on the "off chance" there was another vote deck in the
tourney. Now, I just have to find it. Thankfully, I draw the Barrens
[which the Nos contest with me, but then relent a turn later, I
imagine to their lasting regret] and with the help of my predator
occasionally rushing me [allowing me to cycle all my combat] and my
discard phase, I begin slowly but surely making my way towards the EKN
I know is somewhere in there.
Elison emerges, sure enough making Walter his love-glove in every
vote. I pull out Arika, taking myself low on pool, but equalising the
votes with someone other than a Prince. I minion tap her ASAP. A
couple of Awed votes get by the Auspex wall with the help of my newly
emerged Creepshow Casino. A couple of Voter Caps later, and I'm back
in business. Things are looking a little less brown. The Nos vote is
hurting my predator, throwing the extra points onto me, but it's not
too bad. The Barrens are working overtime. And then, yea, verily, the
miracle happens.
The heavens open. God says "Yeah, i gave you a pretty crappy deal with
that ANI player drawing 11 Aids from Bats in a row against you
yesterday. Here's some much needed good luck, even though you haven't
been to church since you were 16." I draw the EKN. The Nos vote deck
tries to make Elison a justicar to ensure voting supremacy. I throw
down the EKN and the Kindred Coersion. Jim's eyes narrow. 16 votes
call down the Nos Justi vote. Jim's pool suddenly disintegrates into
nothingness. He smiles, nods, says "Niiiiice." and packs up his deck
quietly, which is his way.
[The following day, I realise I myself had been guilty of outrageous
shenanigans, having misplayed the EKN. Reading the card, it has to be
played before votes are cast, which means Jim could have abstained if
he guessed I had the KC in my hand. Again, a mistake you only make
once.]
My predator, despite giving it the good old college try, can't do much
with his guns against Majesties and Skins of Steel. My prey attempts
to block my next vote with Caliban, who is sent to torpor with a Kiss
of Ra. I then blow up my former partner in crime, the ever loyal
Sascha, with a Protect Thine Own. The hurt expression on her face[s]
as she burned will haunt me always. The Creepshow sees me over the
last of the now tapped Auspex wall. My Tzimisce prey dies, cursing me
fluently. The Nos weenies have their highest pointer Banished, but
they still manage to stealth enough bleed to kill the Ravnos. However,
I quickly put an end to their dream with Arika bleeds and KRCs. 3vp to
the Ventrue. We make the finals. Hallelujah. But I'm still not going
to church.
I walk over to the table where the weenie Concealed weapon/Saturday
special deck is having nothing done to it by it's Tzimisce "block
everything and do nothing" predator. The weenies have 7 minions and
four guns on the table. The Tzimisce player is actually throwing his 3
War Ghouls at his GRAND PREY's gargoyles, with his prey's promise of
2vp ringing in his ears. "2vp?" I ask, looking at my watch. "With 9
minutes left in the game? That'd be a neat trick." Steve, a very good
player flying the gargoyle deck says something about the Tzimisce
being the weenie's bitch. The Tzimisce pilot says angrily "Well what
can I do?" I bite my tongue, keep my comments to myself, and watch the
time run down. Result, yet again, a magnificent time out for the
table, with 0.5 vp going to everyone. Yay Tzimisce!
Final Round . . . FIGHT!
Me bleeding weenie Nos, bleeding Blood Brothers, bleeding Lasombra
Vote/SB, bleeding Jim's now surly Nos Vote/Bloat, bleeding me. Jim had
the final seating choice in this round, and hindsight being 20/20 he
messed up. He put himself between the two other vote decks which is
never a good idea, but I probably would have done the same thing in
his posi, knowing how my Ventrue worked, and his deck not really
having strong bleed defense to deal with the Nos weenies, nor strong
combat D to deal with the Blood Brothers. Like me, Jim had no idea the
Lasombra Archbishop deck was more SB than it was vote - but by
Jimminny Cricket on a crotch rocket, we both found out soon enough.
The Lasombra came out swinging, and bled Jim's Nos for truckloads
[Well, it *rhymes* with truckloads, anyway] in just a few rounds.
Harrod emerges, looking surlier than ever. I pull out Arika. Like the
hangover after a bottle of Green Ginger Wine, Elison hasn't arrived
yet, but I know he's on the way, so I pull out Ranjan instead of a
Prince - I don't want Jim to gain supremacy over the tripartite pact
of Arika, Francisco and Alvaro with Elison's special. Jim's votes are
stymied by Arika, Francisco and Alvaro, who smile at each other across
the table whilst plotting each other's gruesome demise. Harrod's
stealth bleeds are deflected into my prey. Shut down, Jim manages to
pull off an Ancient Influence and pull out Elison before being ousted.
Better him than me. Jim says little, packing up his deck quietly,
which is his way.
The Blood Brothers hit a patch of Coagulated entities which the
Lasombra are forced to block for fear of massive and painful BB rear
entry. However, tapping out means copping two 5 point Walk of Caine
bleeds from the other BBs, which hurts badly. The weenie Nos in turn
bleed the BB's [now tapped out in their quest to combat cycle into a
patch of Gestalts] for Peter Jackson sized chunks. I'm sitting there
with a Kindred Restructure in my hand, looking at an easy sweep on the
rest of the table, but I don't have a damn Prince out yet, because
Elison has only just left play. I shake my fist at the sky. God shugs
his shoulders and reminds me about the EKN. I nod my head and say
"Fair enough."
The Blood Brothers beat seven shades of brown out of the Lasombra and
are then ousted by the weenie Nos. The weenie Nos go on to oust the
Lasombra one turn before I manage to influence out Tim Crowley. Damn.
I go on to oust the weenie Nos and get the point for last man
standing. 2vp for me, 2vp for the Nos. Based on the previous round's
vp total, I win the tournament by 1.5vp. Yes indeed, the ventrue did
spank panties this day - but only by the hair on our
chinny-chin-chins.
Thoughts and Contemplations - If it were not against God's law, I'd
make this Ventrue deck my wife. But since he was nice enough to help
out with the EKN, I probably shouldn't do anything to rile him up.
noodleboy
noodleboy wrote:
> Alas, our Prince doesn't seem to be on this forum, so here's my
> exceedingly verbose account of the weekend's shenanigans.
Woah, that is a massive report. Good read though.
> Jason - !Nos POT rush
Would that be the same Jason whose floor I played VTES on a couple of
years ago? If so - hey man, how you doing? Hell if not - how you doing
anyway?
> we'll be sitting on the same table, Jimmy, my lad." He nods and
> agrees, quietly contemplating whilst chewing his Thai
> noodle,
Ahhhh you guys still play under that shopping mall in the food court?
Cool venue IIRC.
Rob.
--
Direct access to this group with http://web2news.comhttp://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
> Woah, that is a massive report. Good read though.
We aim to please. I edited most of the profanity. : )
> Would that be the same Jason whose floor I played VTES on a couple of
> years ago? If so - hey man, how you doing? Hell if not - how you doing
> anyway?
Nope, not me. I'm only newly arrived to Melbourne from waaaay out
west. I'm a 94' Perth boy - well stoked at seeing my home town on Fee
Stake: Perth too, I might add.
But I'm doing good, thanks for asking. : )
> Ahhhh you guys still play under that shopping mall in the food court?
> Cool venue IIRC.
Yeah, still playing down at Ong's food court. The MSG and hatred hangs
thick in the air every Thursday night.
noodleboy
[snip cool report]
> the entire table in his first round]. I say "I bet you a million bucks
> we'll be sitting on the same table, Jimmy, my lad." He nods and
> agrees, quietly contemplating whilst chewing his Thai noodle, which is
> his way.
Sounds suspiciously like a young Jim Parker who used to play in Sydney...
<Claw from Inspector gadget> Next time, Jason, next time!!! *cat meow* </
Claw from Inspector Gadget>
Great tourney, and an excellent and amusing report. Good stuff.
Wow! Really good post. Loved it. I feel flattered by the seething ANI
hatred.
Since you are posting as noodleboy, and I have been posting as
hollowboy for a while, and am too lazy to change, I'll mention that
I'm Craig, noodleboy is Jason, and I'm the one with the ricockulously
long e-mail addy, so hopefully that will keep folks from mixing us up.
I figured I'd played stealthy cheese for two of
> the last three tourneys, so I might as well give pure combat a crack.
>
> Turns out a few other lads had the same idea.
Yep, I was expecting plenty of combat, so I didn't really bother
putting rushes in my own deck - I think I only had 6 all up, and no
Havens. Made more room for computer hacks, and pile upon pile of bats
:-)
The
> next few turns were spent getting hit by bats and crows, getting Fifth
> Trads put on my vamps by my grand prey [Nos vote/bloat], and
> occasionally ripping an ANI weenie a new poop-shute. 10 much needed
> pool was gained by a cross table rush against my grand predator, who
> had an anathema put on Francois by my grand prey.
>
> Niiiice.
That stuff was sooo frustrating! Jim gave you rougly 20 blood via
Fifths AND at least four rescues through the course of the tournament,
constantly foiling my plans. Letting you scoop up pool with Anathema /
Beast just made my uphill struggle that little bit steeper.
> I still manage to hold off the mob reasonably with the help of DotB
> and Sewer lids for a turn or two. Knowing I can probably take the
> !Ventrue but have little chance of ousting the ANI horde alone, I cut
> a deal with my prey not to bleed until the ANI biatches are dead.
> Between the two of us, we lay the downtown docktown beat-down on the
> ANI weenies. However, my [admirably] treacherous prey then passes a
> Meddling of Semsith against me, resulting in my finely tuned combat
> machine being almost completely shut down. Without the cycle to keep
> the combat alive, the !Nos dream dies in a hail of KRC and stealth DOM
> bleed. 0vp for me, 3 vp for the !Ventrue. Cursed Semsith!
At least they were not thrice cursed :-)
> Final seating is as follows: Me bleeding Malk SB, bleeding !Ventrue,
> bleeding Nos vote/bloat, bleeding the god-damned ANI weenies, who JUST
> scraped through to the finals, bleeding . . . you guessed it . . . .
> little old me.
>
> The final does not go well. My Nos grand predator, while helping out
> with the occasional Fifth tradition, does nothing substantial to put
> actual pressure on the ANI deck. As a result, I soon have six minions
> on my back. I torpor my prey's Lucian and rip his fangs in short
> order, but am unable to put in the killing blow because of the ANI
> pressure ["They came from . . . behind!!"]. I torpor a few minions,
> but they're quickly rescued and my grand predator fails to draw any
> 2nd trads to block. He curses passionately enough for me to not hate
> him for it however.
I think he helped all he could - paying for a couple of rescues as
well as putting fifths on your guys. Plus he gave you vote support,
meaning I burned when I ate Beast, but you could munch my guys with
impunity. Besides all that, I don't think he needed to put pressure on
me - my impression was that he was just waiting for us to slaughter
each other, so he could grab two easy VP, rather than try to go
forward with me, and then you, rushing backstream.
The ANI horde has 5 Aid from Bats in his hand, and
> Craig draws six more in a row [I shit you not. ELEVEN] putting Beast
> and Olivia into torpor neatly in one turn.
Yeah that was sweet. I think I tried to deal with you all three times
we were next to each other, so it was nice to hear the third refusal,
shrug, and just go through you :-)
I still had two Bats in my hand at the end of that second fight, so I
was never worried about running out. In truth, it was a rather UNlucky
draw for me - the longest dry spell of Carrion Crows I had. If I had
been a touch luckier with the Crows, I would not have had to squander
so many cards putting those two !Nos back into their graves.
Beast gets eaten - Nigel
> curses and vows vengeance for his leather-faced comrade in arms, but
> is contested shortly thereafter. It all goes to hell in a handbasket
> while my Malk prey sits there breathing a sigh of relief, looking at
> the cards I could have annihilated his minions with go to waste on my
> ANI predator. I die piteously, cursing the skies. However, shenanigans
> follow thereafter, with an accidentally illegal attempt to withdraw by
> the !Ventrue not being spotted by anyone for a turn, and the ANI
> weenies turning and annihilating the Nos under the impression that the
> !Ventrue were withdrawing. It turned brown, and though the !Ventrue
> won the day, everyone concluded it wasn't under the most ideal of
> circumstances.
I don't even remember ousting the Malk... all I remember is that you
had done most of the work for me.
The !Ven was actually nice enough to let me withdraw, cos he felt
sheepish about the shenanigans. He could have won *very* easily at
that point, though, cos I had spent the last of my goodies to put the
biggest Nosssie in torpor with no teeth, and the last one standing was
some chump on 1 blood. And don't forget the *other* shenanigan - since
you and I had the same colour sleeves, we only discovered after the
final that I had played in that game with one of your pulled fangs in
my deck. Presumably it ended up in there after some hot !Nos on !Nos
beating earlier in the day.
> Thoughts and contemplations: Combat is for mugs. So much can go wrong
> in a tourney situation that I don't know if I'll bring a deck like
> this to a tourney again. Still chaps, it was rollicking good fun
> beating that damned froggie Francios into torpor every game, what? : )
That was a cool beat-em-up deck, but I think it will always have
problems here, cos Melbourne Loves Fortitude. I don't usually bother
with potence, not when Steve V puts 15 skins in every deck, and a
handful of others are nearly as keen.
Also, in some (most?) tournaments, if two combat decks sit down side
by side, they can deal to split the table... but since you, and other
Melbourne players don't like to deal, the combat decks are forced to
kill each other, rather than help each other. Yhat makes a big
difference, IMO, in how viable pure combat can be.
>
> Day 2.> I walk over to the table where the weenie Concealed weapon/Saturday
> special deck is having nothing done to it by it's Tzimisce "block
> everything and do nothing" predator. The weenies have 7 minions and
> four guns on the table. The Tzimisce player is actually throwing his 3
> War Ghouls at his GRAND PREY's gargoyles, with his prey's promise of
> 2vp ringing in his ears. "2vp?" I ask, looking at my watch. "With 9
> minutes left in the game? That'd be a neat trick." Steve, a very good
> player flying the gargoyle deck says something about the Tzimisce
> being the weenie's bitch. The Tzimisce pilot says angrily "Well what
> can I do?" I bite my tongue, keep my comments to myself, and watch the
> time run down. Result, yet again, a magnificent time out for the
> table, with 0.5 vp going to everyone. Yay Tzimisce!
In his defence, he was playing a borrowed deck, and he did seem to
play it about as well as he could have. With his help, I managed to
pick up an oust just before the game timed out... and if he had
accepted the deal when I first made it, we could have gotten a 3-2
split pretty easily, I think. Oh well, how sad.
<snip>
> Also, in some (most?) tournaments, if two combat decks sit down side
> by side, they can deal to split the table... but since you, and other
> Melbourne players don't like to deal, the combat decks are forced to
> kill each other, rather than help each other. Yhat makes a big
> difference, IMO, in how viable pure combat can be.
hey us other melbourne players love to deal. its just that most deals that
are offered nowdays are fucking ridiculous. Why is it that if your grand
prey goes hard and his vamps end the turn in torpor, that is is always
"expected" to get a cross table rescue? Day one game one, instead of
rescuing jasons vamps, it seemed a better idea to continue forward and
snatch up 2 vps. i cant remeber every card in the game and if you havent
seen a card played its easy to forget what clans are cappable of. damn those
!malks and thier telepathic missdirections.
i think the deals us melbourne players dont like are the blatent threats.
vote with me, dont bleed me, whatever or i'll beat the shite out of your
vamps.
did we figure out the legality of dealing to split the table. what about
making that deal, two, three turns into the game? none of us can figure out
how spliting a table 2/3 can be called maxamising your vps. or is constantly
asking for the deal and explaining it a sly way of getting closer to time?
day 2
my ravnos predator didnt burn three of my tremere. astrid(?) self combusted
with a burst of sunlight, trying to drop my preys vamp. who dares wins.
right?
apart from that, day 2 was the better tourney. game 2 was the best ever.
back to basics old skool jyhad. no deals, just doing. go forward, bust heads
for the vp.
In message <sWzEa.703$B_5....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>, steven bergmann
<spook...@ozemail.com.au> writes:
>did we figure out the legality of dealing to split the table. what about
>making that deal, two, three turns into the game? none of us can figure out
>how spliting a table 2/3 can be called maxamising your vps.
For the player who gets the 3, they win. The first target is to win.
In terms of VP splitting, they're not breaking the rules. The judge may
be called over to, however, to see if they're colluding or whatever.
But since they win, the part regarding the actual VP split isn't in
question.
For the player who gets 2, the judge should be reasonably looking to see
if that player can't reasonably expect to get more than 2, and is just
giving some VPs (and, in this instance, the table win[0]) away to the
player getting 3 VPs.
If this deal is being made early on, the players will also have to make
some very convincing explanations. Decks can go wrong. Shuffles can
turn out badly. Remember - if shuffling is perfect, it's entirely
possible to get all your masters, followed by all your reactions,
followed by all your actions, followed by all your combat. They don't
know that yet.
Any VP split deal being made early on in the game is, as a result,
vaguely suspect.
> or is constantly
>asking for the deal and explaining it a sly way of getting closer to time?
Stalling is easily dealt with under the Cheating rules. Any player can
simply ask the judge if the other person is stalling.
[0] A player can have a table win with 2 VPs, but they have to have more
than everyone else also. This could happen on a table that split
2-1-1-1-0, for example. Or on a 4 player table.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
Lucky that my breasts are small and humble, EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2
So you don't confuse them with mountains. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D
"steven bergmann" <spook...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:<sWzEa.703$B_5....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au>...
> <snip>
>
> > Also, in some (most?) tournaments, if two combat decks sit down side
> > by side, they can deal to split the table... but since you, and other
> > Melbourne players don't like to deal, the combat decks are forced to
> > kill each other, rather than help each other. Yhat makes a big
> > difference, IMO, in how viable pure combat can be.
>
> hey us other melbourne players love to deal.
-SNIP- Hmm, I probably should have put that better: Melbourne players
don't like to deal where it comes to that specific issue (table
splits).
>
> did we figure out the legality of dealing to split the table.
-I printed off / brought in some stuff (lsj rulings, something from
the FAQ), including one that says that it is legal to honour a deal,
even if breaking it would get you more VP. For example, if you promise
to roll over once you have got 2 VP, then you could break the deal and
try to grab more VP, or you could honour it - it's up to you.
So, there is no penalty for honouring a deal in a way that costs you
VP's. All that matters is:
1) the deal itself cannot be naughty
- it can't be arranged before the game, for example.
2) It has to be strictly for in game, VP-grabbing reasons
- for example, you can't split the table with player Y just to prevent
player X getting into the final.
3) the deal has to get you more VP than you could reasonably have
expected to get without the deal
-I think it's this point that causes the most contention.
...that's my reading of the rules anyway.
These things are *not* in the rulebook, but have been covered by
various on-line rulings, which are a pain in the ass to put together.
Try searching for things like 'splitting' and author 'lsj'.
what about
> making that deal, two, three turns into the game? none of us can figure out
> how spliting a table 2/3 can be called maxamising your vps. or is constantly
> asking for the deal and explaining it a sly way of getting closer to time?
That soon into a game *is* pretty early. But I guess (for example) if
you were playing weenie vote, and your prey already had an atoned vamp
with a 44 Magnum, you might already be utterly hosed, unless you could
swing a deal that involved eliminationg that vampire.
If you are completely screwed (zero VP situation) then any deal that
gets you even 1 VP is maximising them, IMO. And here lies that
contentiousness -
Player A: I think I'm screwed here, I wanna make a deal with you.
Player B: hmm, interesting... (they propose a table-split)
Judge: No, player A, you can't make that deal. You have to prove that
you can't get a VP as it is.
Player A: OK then...
-five minutes later, all Player A's vamires are in torpor-
Player A: OK, I proved I can't go forward. How about that deal, then?
Player B: Hell, no! You no longer have anything to offer. Your vamps
are all in torpor, you idiot.
Judge: Yeah, suck my ass, player A. I bleed you for twelve.
> apart from that, day 2 was the better tourney. game 2 was the best ever.
> back to basics old skool jyhad. no deals, just doing. go forward, bust heads
> for the vp.
I never would have guessed you were an advocate of simple / old skool
play - you seem to love the wierd decks that get ousts almost as a
side-effect of whatever else they do :-)
"Hollowboy" <icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:614f2a39.03060...@posting.google.com...
snip
>
> I never would have guessed you were an advocate of simple / old skool
> play - you seem to love the wierd decks that get ousts almost as a
> side-effect of whatever else they do :-)
got me there. but i guess i proved on day one that wierd decks (my Chi Pre
deck)
don't play that well with with other tourney standard decks. i guess im
gunna
have to play more old skool to help get my love of the game back.
S.
Hollowboy wrote:
> -I printed off / brought in some stuff (lsj rulings, something from
> the FAQ), including one that says that it is legal to honour a deal,
> even if breaking it would get you more VP. For example, if you promise
> to roll over once you have got 2 VP, then you could break the deal and
> try to grab more VP, or you could honour it - it's up to you.
... only if making the deal in the first place was legal. That is: at the
time the deal was made, you had no reasonable chance to accumulate more
than 2VP (as you note later in your post - I just wanted to emphasize that
point closer to this context).
>>making that deal, two, three turns into the game? none of us can figure out
>>how spliting a table 2/3 can be called maxamising your vps. or is constantly
>>asking for the deal and explaining it a sly way of getting closer to time?>
> That soon into a game *is* pretty early. But I guess (for example) if
> you were playing weenie vote, and your prey already had an atoned vamp
> with a 44 Magnum, you might already be utterly hosed, unless you could
> swing a deal that involved eliminationg that vampire.
Even then, it would have to involve looking at the whole table and determining
that no one (notably your prey's prey) would bother removing the Atonement
without a "rollover" deal. It is very difficult to be in a position so "lost"
so early in ("two or three turns") that making a "rollover" deal is legal.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:12:48 -0400, LSJ wrote:
> Hollowboy wrote:>> -I printed off / brought in some stuff (lsj rulings, something from
>> the FAQ), including one that says that it is legal to honour a deal,
>> even if breaking it would get you more VP. For example, if you promise
>> to roll over once you have got 2 VP, then you could break the deal and
>> try to grab more VP, or you could honour it - it's up to you.>
> ... only if making the deal in the first place was legal. That is: at the
> time the deal was made, you had no reasonable chance to accumulate more
> than 2VP (as you note later in your post - I just wanted to emphasize that
> point closer to this context).
>>>>making that deal, two, three turns into the game? none of us can figure out
>>>how spliting a table 2/3 can be called maxamising your vps. or is constantly
>>>asking for the deal and explaining it a sly way of getting closer to time?>>
>> That soon into a game *is* pretty early. But I guess (for example) if
>> you were playing weenie vote, and your prey already had an atoned vamp
>> with a 44 Magnum, you might already be utterly hosed, unless you could
>> swing a deal that involved eliminationg that vampire.>
> Even then, it would have to involve looking at the whole table and determining
> that no one (notably your prey's prey) would bother removing the Atonement
> without a "rollover" deal. It is very difficult to be in a position so "lost"
> so early in ("two or three turns") that making a "rollover" deal is legal.
Is your GPrey allowed to refuse to remove the Atoned one in order to make
such a deal legal? It certianly fits playing to win for him -the deal gives
him GW which killing the atoned one might not.
Great, thanks for replying!
I liked this:
"... only if making the deal in the first place was legal. That is: at
the
time the deal was made, you had no reasonable chance to accumulate
more
than 2VP (as you note later in your post - I just wanted to emphasize
that
point closer to this context)."
...because it annoys me when people do fail to notice this sort of
thing, that the point they are making has already been made further
down in the post they are replying to. It annoys me lots. Grr.
Since you didn't correct me, may I take it that (keeping your
clarifications in mind), the points I made *are* a correct reading of
the current rules?
> > than 2VP (as you note later in your post - I just wanted to emphasize
> > that point closer to this context)."
>
> ...because it annoys me when people do fail to notice this sort of
> thing, that the point they are making has already been made further
> down in the post they are replying to. It annoys me lots. Grr.
Ho-hum.
>> That soon into a game *is* pretty early. But I guess (for example) if
>> you were playing weenie vote, and your prey already had an atoned vamp
>> with a 44 Magnum, you might already be utterly hosed, unless you could
>> swing a deal that involved eliminationg that vampire.>
>Even then, it would have to involve looking at the whole table and
>determining
>that no one (notably your prey's prey) would bother removing the Atonement
>without a "rollover" deal. It is very difficult to be in a position so "lost"
>so early in ("two or three turns") that making a "rollover" deal is legal.
Another good example might be the case of Aranthebes the Immortal. If you're
playing weenies (say pot or tha weenies) and don't have any + bleed and was
hoping to oust with bleeds of one, it is theroetically possible that you won't
be able to do much against your prey without some cross-table help. (Example:
you can use your 2, 3, and 4-cap weenies to pound your prey's vampires into
torpor, but there's no way for you to bleed him or get rid of Aranthebes so you
need to make a deal to do that).
Halcyan 2