[LSJ] Gehenna set card qns

Siphon: If you only choose target(s) controlled by one methuselah (not you), is it a directed action? Neighbourhood Watch Commander: If you can untap him after tapping him to inflict a damage (Babble springs to mind), can you tap him again to inflict a 2nd damage? his ability's text is sort of worded in the during x do y, except doesn't use the word 'during'.. Neighborhood Watch Commander (Hunter). Ally 2 blood. Mortal with 1 life. 1 Strength. 0 bleed. When an action taken by a vampire ends unsuccessfully, you may tap this card at the end of that action to inflict 1 damage on the acting vampire. Only 1 Neighborhood Watch Commander may tap to inflict damage each action. Becoming of Ennioa: requires at least two gehenna events in play controlled by _other_ methuselahs. surely the 'other' is a misprint? it's somewhat wallpaper with the 'other', unless you know everyone loves to play earthmeld decks. thanks, salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

salem wrote: > Siphon: > If you only choose target(s) controlled by one methuselah (not you), > is it a directed action? Yes. > Neighbourhood Watch Commander: > If you can untap him after tapping him to inflict a damage (Babble > springs to mind), can you tap him again to inflict a 2nd damage? his > ability's text is sort of worded in the during x do y, except doesn't > use the word 'during'.. Yes, but Babble won't do, since it isn't playable after the resolution of the action. > Neighborhood Watch Commander (Hunter). > Ally > 2 blood. > Mortal with 1 life. 1 Strength. 0 bleed. > When an action taken by a vampire ends unsuccessfully, you > may tap this card at the end of that action to inflict 1 damage > on the acting vampire. Only 1 Neighborhood Watch Commander > may tap to inflict damage each action. > > Becoming of Ennioa: > requires at least two gehenna events in play controlled by _other_ > methuselahs. surely the 'other' is a misprint? it's somewhat wallpaper > with the 'other', unless you know everyone loves to play earthmeld > decks. No misprint. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Mon, 17 May 2004 10:45:54 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >salem wrote: > >> Becoming of Ennioa: >> requires at least two gehenna events in play controlled by _other_ >> methuselahs. surely the 'other' is a misprint? it's somewhat wallpaper >> with the 'other', unless you know everyone loves to play earthmeld >> decks. > >No misprint. Is Becoming of Ennoia that good, compared to something like New Inquisition?

Not a rules question, but... How come Curmudgeon has the card text "you may tap this card to..." rather than the "Once per turn" text that, eg, Creep Show has? It's no big deal, but Corporal Reservoir has proven to really be an annoyance when it comes to keeping track of the tapped/untapped status of a card on a vampire... --Colin McGuigan

"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:Yuqdndiq7fg...@speakeasy.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Probably to limit its benefit to once per "round" of play, similar to Conniver. With current text, you basically can only use its ability once before your next untap phase. And with a Malk OOT deck, Conniver's going to see a lot of play. -- Mike Ooi "You have left the world. Click to continue."

UniqueMaster wrote: > Probably to limit its benefit to once per "round" of play, similar to > Conniver. With current text, you basically can only use its ability once > before your next untap phase. And with a Malk OOT deck, Conniver's going to > see a lot of play. But Curmudgeon already states on its card text that it only applies during your prey's turn ("During your prey's untap... If that minion is blocked *this turn*...") --Colin McGuigan

"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:WQ6dnXs3z7R...@speakeasy.net... [ quoted text not captured ] Freak drive superior - minion takes another action. You don't get another blood. [ quoted text not captured ]

Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote: > It's no big deal, but Corporal Reservoir has proven to really be an > annoyance when it comes to keeping track of the tapped/untapped status > of a card on a vampire... Really? We haven't had any difficulty with it. We just place it above the top of the card or below the bottom and tap it independently, like any other card. [ quoted text not captured ]

>> But Curmudgeon already states on its card text that it only applies >> during your prey's turn ("During your prey's untap... If that >> minion is blocked *this turn*...") > >Freak drive superior - minion takes another action. You don't get another >blood. Wouldn't it still be limited to "During X do Y"? Halcyan 2

>> It's no big deal, but Corporal Reservoir has proven to really be an >> annoyance when it comes to keeping track of the tapped/untapped status >> of a card on a vampire... > >Really? > >We haven't had any difficulty with it. We just place it above the top >of the card or below the bottom and tap it independently, like any >other card. I suppose it might be problematic if you don't have much playing space. But then again, retainers (with their life) and cards like the Seal (which has its own counters) also fit into the same category. Also, last I checked, Deckbot had some problems with tapping cards that were attached to other cards. On the flipside, in the past, I've seen plenty of players "tap" their Hunting Ground when using it, so some players might find tapping to be an intuitive effect (in which case tapping for the Archetype is a *good* thing). Halcyan 2

UniqueMaster wrote: > Freak drive superior - minion takes another action. You don't get another > blood. Yes, but, back to the original post, why not just say, "Once per turn..." as, eg, Creepshow does, instead of tapping the card? --Colin McGuigan

LSJ wrote: > Really? > > We haven't had any difficulty with it. We just place it above the top > of the card or below the bottom and tap it independently, like any > other card. It's common (here in Chicago) to place a card "on a minion" underneath that minion, and I've seen more than one player who has mistakenly done this with their reservoirs. As for keeping the cards seperate from the minion card, it starts developing a space issue when you have 12+ reservoirs out. Also starts the possibility that it could be mistakenly confused which reservoir goes with which minion. Not saying I have a better method for the reservoir, but I was curious why the tapping mechanism was used on Curmudgeon. --Colin McGuigan

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20040517135445...@mb-m10.aol.com... [Colin McGuigan wrote] > >> But Curmudgeon already states on its card text that it only applies > >> during your prey's turn ("During your prey's untap... If that > >> minion is blocked *this turn*...") [Mike Ooi wrote] > >Freak drive superior - minion takes another action. You don't get another > >blood. > > Wouldn't it still be limited to "During X do Y"? No, since the "gain blood" effect isn't written with the During X template - it's the vampire-choosing part that is "During your prey's untap phase, you may choose a minion controlled by your prey." But I think Colin is still correct that the phrasing "Once this turn, if that minion is blocked" would exactly echo the "tap" functionality of the card. Except! If you could *untap* the Curmudgeon card during your prey's turn somehow, *and* that chosen minion is blocked a second time on the same turn, you can get a second blood by tapping Curmudgeon again. Clearly this added functionality must have been the reason for the use of the "tap" mechanic for this archetype. :-) Josh had a very antisocial group of vampires yesterday (two curmudgeons, one loner)

"Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> wrote in message news:2gsfgaF...@uni-berlin.de... [ quoted text not captured ] If they're paying WotC for the use of the tap mechanic, might as well get your money's worth. Also adds to the # of cards that Remover can target! [ quoted text not captured ]

"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:LdWcnXL5idl...@speakeasy.net... [ quoted text not captured ] "Once per turn" is passive. It's boring. "Tapping" is active. It's exciting and genitally stimulating. [ quoted text not captured ]

> Yes, but, back to the original post, why not just say, "Once per > turn..." as, eg, Creepshow does, instead of tapping the card? > Because sometimes you oust your prey during his turn. They wanted to limit it to once per round.

"shawn stanley" <sta...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:oh7ha0t8ikng0o8p6...@4ax.com... [ quoted text not captured ] New Inquisition has an inherent "call a vote to burn this card" action. If I remember right, Becoming of Ennoia has no inherent method for removal. Josh and it might make you become annoyed, indeed...

UniqueMaster wrote: > "Once per turn" is passive. It's boring. > > "Tapping" is active. It's exciting and genitally stimulating. At least one of the Gehenna packs I opened during the draft had its cards all stuck together. I believe this answers why quite neatly. --Colin McGuigan

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: > Because sometimes you oust your prey during his turn. They wanted to limit > it to once per round. If I ousted my prey on his turn, then the named vampire would also be ousted; as far as the choosing iself, the choosing during untap is already limited by the "During X do Y" template. --Colin McGuigan

> > Because sometimes you oust your prey during his turn. They wanted to limit > > it to once per round. > > If I ousted my prey on his turn, then the named vampire would also be > ousted; as far as the choosing iself, the choosing during untap is > already limited by the "During X do Y" template. > Yes, and during your new prey's turn, you may choose a new minion controlled by your new prey.

On Mon, 17 May 2004 17:03:25 -0400, "Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Becoming of Ennoia, they get to choose where to put the damage. New Inquisition you get to choose where to put the damage - a significant benefit. New Inquisition only takes 1 Gehenna card in play. If Becoming of Ennoia took just 2 Gehenna cards in play instead of 2 controlled by other Methuselahs I would consider it to be a) unbroken and b) playable

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: > Yes, and during your new prey's turn, you may choose a new minion > controlled by your new prey. Hmmm. Conceded. --Colin McGuigan

"shawn stanley" <sta...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ceija0l1ef5udhkru...@4ax.com... > On Mon, 17 May 2004 17:03:25 -0400, "Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> > wrote: > > >New Inquisition has an inherent "call a vote to burn this card" action. > >If I remember right, Becoming of Ennoia has no inherent method for > >removal. > > Becoming of Ennoia, they get to choose where to put the damage. New > Inquisition you get to choose where to put the damage - a significant > benefit. True, each turn, the active Meth gets to choose one of his or her prey's vampires to damage with New Inquisition, whereas with Becoming of Ennoia, each Meth chooses one of his or her *own* minions to damage during his or her untap. But either one of those effects is quite strong when it remains in play for an extended period, because a point of damage on *every Methuselah's turn* adds up to a lot of damage. Combined with, say, Torpid Blood, they could hurt all the vampires on the table quite a bit. > New Inquisition only takes 1 Gehenna card in play. If > Becoming of Ennoia took just 2 Gehenna cards in play instead of 2 > controlled by other Methuselahs I would consider it to be a) unbroken > and b) playable But the combination of both of them at once increases the strength of each effect - they have good synergy in damaging all the vampires in the game. It makes sense to me that the one that can't be gotten rid of would be harder to play (even if its damage-causing effect isn't quite as nasty as the one that can be burned by a vote). If you want to find out if it would indeed not be broken with just a "2 Gehenna cards in play" requirement, though, I recommend trying it out that way with your group. See what happens. :-) Josh and feel free to use proxies too ;-)

On Tue, 18 May 2004 08:19:26 -0500, Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> scrawled: >Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: >> Yes, and during your new prey's turn, you may choose a new minion >> controlled by your new prey. > >Hmmm. Conceded. yeah, it'd be so totally broken if you could do that. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email) "I like to play the field"-LSJ

In article <ceija0l1ef5udhkru...@4ax.com>, shawn stanley says... > Becoming of Ennoia, they get to choose where to put the damage. New > Inquisition you get to choose where to put the damage - a significant > benefit. New Inquisition only takes 1 Gehenna card in play. If > Becoming of Ennoia took just 2 Gehenna cards in play instead of 2 > controlled by other Methuselahs I would consider it to be a) unbroken > and b) playable On the other hand, with NI, your predator chooses which of your vamps he wants to nuke on his turn, while with BoE, you choose which of your vamps takes the damage. There's also the fact that NI doesn't get replaced until a titled vamp goes to torpor, while BoE gets replaced on your next discard phase. Each card has its ups and downs. And for the foreseeable future, there's going to be a lot of players putting Gehenna cards into play (new set and all), so I don't anticipate BoE's opportunity cost to be that bad. -- -Snapcase