rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Ghoul Retainer Question

13 messages from 10 participants · 22 June 1996 – 02 July 1996
original thread on Google Groups

Harry Smith

If a vampires has a Ghoul Retainer (may use a weapon of the controling minion) and a Bang Nak - Tiger's Claws (minon does +2 hand damage with each strike), what happens if the Ghoul tries to use the Bang Nak? Just what is the Ghoul's hand damage? Or is the damage based on that of the vampire? In that case, would a Torn Signpost + Fists of Death used by the vampire allow the Ghoul to punch for 7 (assuming that the vampire has superior Potence)? Also, would a vampire with Wolf Claws use Bang Nak do 3 aggrivated damage? Basically, the question here is do you strike with the Bang Nak, or does the Bang Nak just function as a Fists of Death and give you +2 hand damage? -- Modest, industrious, benevolent, temperate: is that how you would have men? Good men? But to me that seems only the ideal slave, the slave of the future. Modesty, industiousness, benevolence, temperance are just so many hinderances to a sovereign disposition, great inventiveness, heroic purposefullness, noble being-for-oneself. --Friedrich Nietzsche, "The Will to Power" /------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | You don't get what you deserve, | Good people are good because they | | You get what you take. | are not strong enought to be evil.| |-----------------------------------+------------------------------------| | Conflicts between right and wrong | 'Conscience' is nothing more than | | are a sickness of the mind. | the fear of being caught. | \------------------------------------------------------------------------/

Rory

On 22 Jun 1996 06:11:52 GMT, hsm...@garfield.msms.doe.k12.ms.us (Harry Smith) wrote: Think of it as a tough sword. Ghoul does 1 hand damage (card text) Rory The Ref at refplace.best.com

Catwoman

Ghoul retainer is fun with vast wealth or arms dealers and such but I generally prefer Wolf Companions. ********************************************************************** "...I'm just a hard-working girl trying to make it in a man's world." -Catwoman (Issue #30) *************************************** Dharia McGrew damc...@mhc.mtholyoke.edu and of course.....(in other words, LOOK AT IT!!!!) http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~damcgrew **********************************************************************

eric liu

In article <4qg2r8$m...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>, Harry Smith <hsm...@garfield.msms.doe.k12.ms.us> wrote: > >Also, would a vampire with Wolf Claws use Bang Nak do 3 aggrivated >damage? Basically, the question here is do you strike with the Bang Nak, >or does the Bang Nak just function as a Fists of Death and give you +2 >hand damage? > This is a very interesting point that I would also request clarification on. What _is_ the effect of a melee weapon such as Bang Nakh? from the AH spoiler list for Bang Nakh: "Minion with this weapon inflicts +2 hand damage with each strike." Is a strike using the Bang Nakh (or any similar melee weapon) considered a HAND strike or a NON-HAND strike (melee weapon strike?)? The "+2 hand damage" text on Bang Nakh would suggest that a strike using this melee weapon is a hand strike. Is this the case? Is this effect _cumulative_? That is, since the Bang Nakh is non-unique would a minion "with" two Bang Nakhs do +4 hand damage with each strike? It would seem to me that a strike using the Bang Nakh should NOT be a hand strike and should NOT be cumulative with other Bang Nakhs on the minion. Similarly, I have heard (but have yet to see) that the V:TES version of Bastard Sword has been reworded to say "+1 hand damage" instead of "2 hand damage." If that is the case, the previous questions may also apply. ejl

Thomas R Wylie

Using Bang Nakh's ability is considered to be striking with a weapon, so it cannot be combined with other weapons. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Rory

On 28 Jun 1996 20:59:47 GMT, aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] How about with Wolf Claws? The Ref at refp...@best.com

Brian Kallenbach

[ quoted text not captured ] A Melee Weapon can only be used in combat if you say "My Strike is the weapon." To answer your questions, Bastard Sword and Bang Nakh are not hand strikes. The effect can't be cumulative, because you can only strike with one Bang Nakh at once. A Melee Weapon is also unaffected by cards such as Wolf Claws, and vampire's special abilities, such as Thetmes. The key rule to remember, you can't use a Melee Weapon unless you declare it as a strike, which means it is separate from you hand. -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Assamite | | (assa...@inlink.com) | +-------------------------------------------------------+ | http://www.angelfire.com/pages0/assamite/index.html | +-------------------------------------------------------+ | If there were a Cell Z, I'd be a member of it... | +-------------------------------------------------------+

PDB6

I assume that this all means that both Bastard Sword and Bang Nakh are unusable when Immortally Grappled. Is this the case? Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "Some of you are going to die Martyrs of course to the freedom I shall provide." -Genesis

Thomas R Wylie

PDB6 <pd...@aol.com> wrote: >I assume that this all means that both Bastard Sword and Bang Nakh are >unusable when Immortally Grappled. Is this the case? Yes. [ quoted text not captured ]

L. Scott Johnson

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: >PDB6 <pd...@aol.com> wrote: >>I assume that this all means that both Bastard Sword and Bang Nakh are >>unusable when Immortally Grappled. Is this the case? >Yes. The template used by Bang Nakh ("inflicts +2 hand damage with each strike") suggests that, while you are striking with a weapon (and only one weapon may be chosen for a strike), the strike is a hand strike, and therefore usable even if grappled. If this is not the case, why the contorted template? (Instead of the standard melee weapon text: "Strike: +2 Hand Damage") -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | I am Barney of Borg. http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | You will be nauseated. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

Zaphod Beeblebrox

: The template used by Bang Nakh ("inflicts +2 hand damage with each strike") : suggests that, while you are striking with a weapon (and only one weapon : may be chosen for a strike), the strike is a hand strike, and therefore : usable even if grappled. : If this is not the case, why the contorted template? : (Instead of the standard melee weapon text: "Strike: +2 Hand Damage") : -- : L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | I am Barney of Borg. : http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | You will be nauseated. : Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. | Consider the wording as the weapon inflicts two more than your current hand damage. There is an implication that this would be a hand strike, but no explicit statement of that, only that the weapon does damage which is two more than the damage done by your bare hand. Looking at the phrase that way clears up all the problems. Since it is not a hand strike, you cannot strike with it if Immortally Grappled, and it would not be modified by cards such as Wolf Claws or effects such as Basilla's hand damage, only by cards which modify melee weapon damage explicitly. -Wallpaper Paste for all those useless cards

L. Scott Johnson

dc...@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Zaphod Beeblebrox) writes: >: The template used by Bang Nakh ("inflicts +2 hand damage with each strike") >: suggests that, while you are striking with a weapon (and only one weapon >: may be chosen for a strike), the strike is a hand strike, and therefore >: usable even if grappled. >: If this is not the case, why the contorted template? >: (Instead of the standard melee weapon text: "Strike: +2 Hand Damage") >Consider the wording as the weapon inflicts two more than your >current hand damage. There is an implication that this would >be a hand strike, but no explicit statement of that, only that >the weapon does damage which is two more than the damage done >by your bare hand. Looking at the phrase that way clears up >all the problems. Since it is not a hand strike, you cannot >strike with it if Immortally Grappled, and it would not be >modified by cards such as Wolf Claws or effects such as >Basilla's hand damage, only by cards which modify melee weapon >damage explicitly. I understand the ruling, I was asking about the reason that the template was changed in such a way as to imply something other than the ruling. Anyone have any insight into the template change as opposed to the ruling? [ quoted text not captured ]

J. Andrew Lipscomb

In article <4r8ict$3...@redwood.cs.sc.edu>, sjoh...@math.scarolina.edu (L. Scott Johnson) wrote: > aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: > > >PDB6 <pd...@aol.com> wrote: > >>I assume that this all means that both Bastard Sword and Bang Nakh are > >>unusable when Immortally Grappled. Is this the case? > > >Yes. > > The template used by Bang Nakh ("inflicts +2 hand damage with each strike") > suggests that, while you are striking with a weapon (and only one weapon > may be chosen for a strike), the strike is a hand strike, and therefore > usable even if grappled. > > If this is not the case, why the contorted template? > (Instead of the standard melee weapon text: "Strike: +2 Hand Damage") Think about what it is--it's Oriental brass knuckles. The fact that you're wrestling doesn't mean you can't punch a guy, brass knuckles or no. J. Andrew Lipscomb <ew...@chattanooga.net, them...@delphi.com> PGP keys by request