[LSJ] Fizzling and Failing

If an unblocked action fizzles at resolution, due to the acting minion's inability to pay the cost of the action or target eligibility changing before resolution, is the action considered to have failed for the purposes of cards and effects which trigger off of failed actions? Or is a fizzled action analogous to a bleed which has been reduced to zero, in that the action is successful but its effects are not? Thanks. John Eno

On 16 nov, 20:13, Kushiel <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: > If an unblocked action fizzles at resolution, due to the acting > minion's inability to pay the cost of the action or target eligibility > changing before resolution, is the action considered to have failed > for the purposes of cards and effects which trigger off of failed > actions? It fizzles. 1 -If not blocked, then the action is successful. 2 - Then, check if the target (if any) is still valid. 3 - Then try to pay. 4 - Then finish resolving the action. If 2, 3, or 4 can't happen, or can't be fullfilled, the action fizzles. Failed actions are usually unsuccessful. > Or is a fizzled action analogous to a bleed which has been > reduced to zero, in that the action is successful but its effects are > not? Thanks. > > John Eno Even though a bleed for 0 isn't a successful bleed, the action is still successful and the bleed's effects were applied (i.e. the target lost 0 pool to the bleed).

On Nov 16, 2:34 pm, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 16 nov, 20:13, Kushiel <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > If an unblocked action fizzles at resolution, due to the acting > > minion's inability to pay the cost of the action or target eligibility > > changing before resolution, is the action considered to have failed > > for the purposes of cards and effects which trigger off of failed > > actions? > > It fizzles. > 1 -If not blocked, then the action is successful. > 2 - Then, check if the target (if any) is still valid. > 3 - Then try to pay. > 4 - Then finish resolving the action. > If 2, 3, or 4 can't happen, or can't be fullfilled, the action > fizzles. > > Failed actions are usually unsuccessful. Will Perfectionist trigger on a fizzled action if no reaction cards were played? Can a Neighborhood Watch Commander inflict a damage on an unblocked, fizzled action? > Even though a bleed for 0 isn't a successful bleed, the action is > still successful and the bleed's effects were applied (i.e. the target > lost 0 pool to the bleed). Yeah, bad analogy on my part. Couldn't think of anything else remotely parallel, though. John Eno

On 16 nov, 21:17, Kushiel <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Nov 16, 2:34 pm, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On 16 nov, 20:13, Kushiel <invisibleking...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > If an unblocked action fizzles at resolution, due to the acting > > > minion's inability to pay the cost of the action or target eligibility > > > changing before resolution, is the action considered to have failed > > > for the purposes of cards and effects which trigger off of failed > > > actions? > > > It fizzles. > > 1 -If not blocked, then the action is successful. > > 2 - Then, check if the target (if any) is still valid. > > 3 - Then try to pay. > > 4 - Then finish resolving the action. > > If 2, 3, or 4 can't happen, or can't be fullfilled, the action > > fizzles. > > > Failed actions are usually unsuccessful. > > Will Perfectionist trigger on a fizzled action if no reaction cards > were played? Sure. https://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2413eb58f02b8ebd The action is successful and no reaction cards were played. > Can a Neighborhood Watch Commander inflict a damage on an unblocked, > fizzled action? Only successful actions can fizzle. The fizzling part is determined after all blocks are declined, when the action is successful. So, no.

[ quoted text not captured ] My thoughts, they are provoked. Is fizzling a useful distinction? Any good reason such actions shouldn't simply fail? There are many implications but off the top of my head I can't think of any problem cases. -- John McGlynn

On Nov 17, 1:04 pm, John McGlynn <john.mcgl...@gmail.com> wrote: > My thoughts, they are provoked. Is fizzling a useful distinction? > Any good reason such actions shouldn't simply fail? There are many > implications but off the top of my head I can't think of any problem > cases. I don't see any need to change the rule, given how rarely it comes up in play and that it's not really disruptive when it does. It is a bit annoying that, like "impulse," it only appears in the VTES Shadow Codex rather than the actual rulebook. John Eno

[ quoted text not captured ] Impulse is completely described in the rules under sequencing. Albeit without using that shorthand. The rules also don't use the "albeit" shorthand (or bounce or any number of other shorthands you might find on this group).