[Prewiev] Hanging Fermata

Hanging Fermata Master Daughter of Cacophony Master: out-of-turn. Play during your influence phase. No Choir cards are burned during this influence phase. Not usable if you played a Hanging Fermate during your last turn. ----- Looks like someone guessed it. Nice addition for those DoC Choir decks.

And Maria Stone ADV is an Ahrimanes, so there we have our group 3 Ahrimanes... Her basic version does have totally differen disciplines, in fact she has neither animalism or presence, weird.

Nooooo. Maria Stone as an Arhimane *cries*

JH wrote: > Hanging Fermata > Master > Daughter of Cacophony > > Master: out-of-turn. > Play during your influence phase. No > Choir cards are burned during this > influence phase. Not usable if you played > a Hanging Fermate during your last turn. I have a question about the interaction of this with 1st Tradition. The wording on 1st Trad is "Skip a turn or pay 2 pool." Does the turn that is skipped (with no influence phase) count as a turn for the purposes of HF's restriction? Sounds silly, I know, but I just want confirmation that it doesn't so that there isn't a loophole to build the infinite choir deck, since it would not be hard to have a DoC deck calling 1st Trad. And if for some reason it does work, well I know what my first Choir deck is going to look like... Eric Simon Prince of Chicago

vol...@yahoo.com wrote: > I have a question about the interaction of this with 1st Tradition. > The wording on 1st Trad is "Skip a turn or pay 2 pool." Does the turn > that is skipped (with no influence phase) count as a turn for the > purposes of HF's restriction? Sounds silly, I know, but I just want > confirmation that it doesn't so that there isn't a loophole to build > the infinite choir deck, since it would not be hard to have a DoC deck > calling 1st Trad. And if for some reason it does work, well I know > what my first Choir deck is going to look like... Confirmed. Your last turn means your last turn. Similarly, if you Sudden your predator's Information Highway and then (on that same turn) she puts a First Tradition in play and you skip a few turns, you still loses a master phase action on your "next" turn (since you played a master: out-of-turn since your "last" turn"). See Lupus Australis's note to that effect in this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_frm/thread/498923709dfec5d

[ quoted text not captured ] > ----- [ quoted text not captured ] To be honest, I think this card makes "Choir Decks" worse. Before this card, the prey of the DoC player would not bother to block most of the inferior Choir actions, most of the time. Now, just because this card exists, it encourages the prey (and maybe predator) to attempt to block every single inferior action, so that it can't build up over 2 turns for a devastating effect. Which means that the Choir Deck needs to allocate more resources to getting successful actions through. And you can only Dare the Dawn so many times before your entire crypt is in torpor... On the other hand, I think this card encourages "casual Choirs" to be tossed in to a Daughter deck. 6-8 Choirs and 1 Hanging Fermata will be enough to add the extra "spice" to a Daughter Vote deck or whatnot... Just my opinion.

Maria Stoned ADV 5 cap Ahrimanes group 3 ANI cel FOR obf PRE pr SPI Sabbat: When Maria comes into play, she thinks for a moment she's this killer Ahrimanes vampire and immediately afterwards she loses ANI, PRE and SPI and she realises that she's actually a !Gangrel. Merge: If all Methuselahs are smoking pod, ignore Maria Stoned ADV text and then she really is this killer vampire!!!

Jozxyqk wrote: > JH <jNOhatt...@tenerdoplease.org> wrote: > > Hanging Fermata > > Master > > Daughter of Cacophony > > > Master: out-of-turn. > > Play during your influence phase. No > > Choir cards are burned during this > > influence phase. Not usable if you played > > a Hanging Fermate during your last turn. > > > ----- > > > Looks like someone guessed it. Nice addition for those DoC Choir decks. > > To be honest, I think this card makes "Choir Decks" worse. > Before this card, the prey of the DoC player would not bother to block > most of the inferior Choir actions, most of the time. > Now, just because this card exists, it encourages the prey (and maybe > predator) to attempt to block every single inferior action, so that it > can't build up over 2 turns for a devastating effect. But on the other hand, you'll get more mileage against casual blockers with Hanging Fermata. Last I've played a Choir deck, I'd usually have 4 Daughters ready at some point to strap a 6-point Choir. Preys with casual intercept either would save the intercept for the last Choir at superior, or if they think they don't have enough intercept to stop that, would use the few they have to stop one or two inferior Choirs by the [mel] Daughters to diminish the damage. In this situation, at best, the ideal Choir Damage would drop to 4 or even 2, at the expense of tapping all minions. At worst, the prey would succeed to block the last Choir, so no pool damage this turn. Hanging Fermata resolves both problems, making it worth the turn you've spent building inferior Choirs even if you think the last one will be blocked, or for wasting your prey's casual intercept and free yourself to burst through next round. As a side effect, it makes preys who can consistedly block Choir actions more aware that they should do so, but that's fine for me since it already happens somewhat anyway. Choirs do pool damage that's not bounceable or reduceable, and since most wall decks also pack some bounce or bleed reduction as defense, it's already crucial for them to block Choirs. > Which means that the Choir Deck needs to allocate more resources to > getting successful actions through. And you can only Dare the Dawn so > many times before your entire crypt is in torpor... I usually go for all that's possible to throw in to pass the actions anyway. I've even considered throwing in some Polaris Coach. > On the other hand, I think this card encourages "casual Choirs" to be > tossed in to a Daughter deck. 6-8 Choirs and 1 Hanging Fermata will be > enough to add the extra "spice" to a Daughter Vote deck or whatnot... I don't know if it's worth it with these particular numbers, though I agree with the general idea. Hanging Fermata only maintains the Choirs for a turn, so once you play it you'd still need to have at least 2 Choirs played *this turn* and draw at least 2 more in the next turn to be worth it (4 actions to remove 6 pool, instead of 4 bleeds for 1). 6-8 Choirs doesn't strike me as a good number to ensure you'll have/draw/play 4x of them in quick succession (2 turns). But adjusting the numbers, 2 Hanging Fermata could turn one's 12-14 Choirs useful; just tackle another strategy in it (political or not), and you're good to go. best, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo <fabio....@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't know if it's worth it with these particular numbers, though I > agree with the general idea. Hanging Fermata only maintains the Choirs > for a turn, so once you play it you'd still need to have at least 2 > Choirs played *this turn* and draw at least 2 more in the next turn to > be worth it (4 actions to remove 6 pool, instead of 4 bleeds for 1). Bleeds for 1 are at 0 stealth, and can be reduced or bounced. Even at its minimum effectiveness (2 +1 stealth actions for 2 pool damage), Choir has a slight advantage.

"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> schreef in bericht news:eaOdnSgfv9M...@comcast.com... > JH <jNOhatt...@tenerdoplease.org> wrote: >> Hanging Fermata >> Master >> Daughter of Cacophony > >> Master: out-of-turn. >> Play during your influence phase. No >> Choir cards are burned during this >> influence phase. Not usable if you played >> a Hanging Fermate during your last turn. > >> ----- > >> Looks like someone guessed it. Nice addition for those DoC Choir decks. > > To be honest, I think this card makes "Choir Decks" worse. > > Before this card, the prey of the DoC player would not bother to block > most of the inferior Choir actions, most of the time. well, you can always try to get the superior choir through. If it fails, play the HF.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005, Jeroen Rombouts wrote: >> To be honest, I think this card makes "Choir Decks" worse. >> >> Before this card, the prey of the DoC player would not bother to block >> most of the inferior Choir actions, most of the time. Probably because Choir decks weren't very effective. Will this card change things? Hope so. Looks like it might. > well, you can always try to get the superior choir through. If it fails, > play the HF. And hope they don't have Suddens! Matt Morgan

[ quoted text not captured ] True, but in turn it requires you card slots, while single bleeds don't (not to mention permableed which require fewer card slots for a better result, now that Angela can get a Heart of City and such). About the stealth, no Choir deck I've seen so far relies on getting the actions through without a reasonable amount of extra stealth. So the deck will probably have some stealth to pass the bleeds anyway. Not to mention that without Hanging Fermata, you can have a turn like this: - tap all your minions for Choirs - get blocked at last Choir And your prey only needs one untapped minion to foil the whole turn of yours, who is tapped out by now for nothing. If you bled with all minions, your prey would have a harder time to block them all and/or have enough bounce or bleed reduction cards to make you waste your whole turn for naught. In the end, Choir is indeed better than plain regular bleeding, but only when the most successful scenarios are compared - and it has to be, because it involves way more potential for waste of resources with no gain at all. best, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

Jozxyqk wrote: > To be honest, I think this card makes "Choir Decks" worse. I don't know if it is fair to say it makes the "worse", but as cool as the card seems, I agree that it is probably not as good as one would initially think. Assuming you have 4 Daughters and no one blocks you on any of your Choir actions: -With Hanging, over 2 turns, you do (4 Choir +3 Choir+ Superior)14 pool damage. -Without Hanging, over 2 turns, you do (3 Choir + Superior + 3 Choir + Superior) 12 pool damage. Basically, you get to spend an MPA to do 2 extra pool damage. Which isn't that huge. What it strikes me as most useful for is having a couple in the deck just in case you try and top deck for another Choir to play at superior (i.e. you have 1 choir in your hand. Play it, and hope to draw another. If you do, play a second and try to draw a third, etc.), and if you don't, you can save them all till next turn. But in that instance, why not just replace the Hangings with more Choirs... -Peter

<pd...@lightlink.com> schreef in bericht news:1130430550.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] As I said above: I think the only use for Hangings is a as a fail safe. It means your turn of bringing out Choirs and then seeing your superior choir blocked is not completely lost. and maybe Sponteneous Power will add another vamp able to put the choirs into play. This might make the choir deck playable.

[ quoted text not captured ] I agree. I would call Hanging Fermata your "get out of jail free card." If your Superior Choir has been blocked, you don't lose the whole turn. Relying on it to combo two turns of Choirs together generally just isn't worth it. Over two turns, its only two more pool damage and if your superior Choir delivery method is Daring the Dawn, its one less trip to torpor, but since the first half can be lost by a Sudden Reversal, I don't think building a deck around Choirs over 2 turns is worth it. The only useable if you didn't play one last turn actually protects you from being an idiot and planning to string them together over several turns. If that were possible, you would get a good three turns of Choir together and then someone would Sudden Reverse your next Hanging Fermata and you'd lose it all. > and maybe Sponteneous Power will add another vamp able to put the choirs > into play. This might make the choir deck playable. I think it could be useful in a Daughters with Embrace and Sanguine Instruction deck going for the "ultimate" huge Choir. Previously, I think this deck would have a terrible time with jamming, getting Choirs early game when you want to be Embracing and Instructing, and then late game, drawing Embraces and SI when you are trying to string together a huge Choir. With Hanging Fermata, early game you can cycle Choirs by playing the 1 to 2 you have and then "saving them" for next turn and then during the following turn play another 1 or 2 at inferior and then superior Choir activating the 3 or 4 in play. Late game, you have the Hanging Fermata safety net in case your superior Choir is blocked (provided no Sudden Reversal) you don't lose the whole turn's worth of work. Later, ~Rehlow