We seem to have a dilemna on the french forum concerning this card :
"OBE : take control of any ready tapped minon *until the end of the next
action*. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt."
So, is it HIS next action, the bleed, in which case I can bleed or act with
my minions, and THEN with this one, or is it until MY next action, in which
case if I bleed he goes right back to his controller ?
In message <9vi1hf$lii$1...@wanadoo.fr>, Orpheus <orph...@wanadoo.fr>
writes:
>"OBE : take control of any ready tapped minon *until the end of the next
>action*. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt."
>
>So, is it HIS next action, the bleed, in which case I can bleed or act with
>my minions, and THEN with this one, or is it until MY next action, in which
>case if I bleed he goes right back to his controller ?
It is the end of the next action after this one finishes.
The stolen vampire is given a mandatory action to perform, so they must
perform it. (Either that or they already have a mandatory action, from
the hunt.)
When that's over, it goes back.
--
James Coupe PGP 0x5D623D5D It's been a long road, getting from there to here
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA213D7E It's been a long time, and my time is finally near
668C3695D623D5D I will see my dream come alive at last, I will touch the sky
And they're not gonna hold me down no more, no they're not gonna change my mind
"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> a écrit dans le message news:
2oH5xrQ8...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk...
> In message <9vi1hf$lii$1...@wanadoo.fr>, Orpheus <orph...@wanadoo.fr>
> writes:
> >"OBE : take control of any ready tapped minon *until the end of the next
> >action*. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt."
> >
> >So, is it HIS next action, the bleed, in which case I can bleed or act
with
> >my minions, and THEN with this one, or is it until MY next action, in
which
> >case if I bleed he goes right back to his controller ?
>
> It is the end of the next action after this one finishes.
>
> The stolen vampire is given a mandatory action to perform, so they must
> perform it. (Either that or they already have a mandatory action, from
> the hunt.)
>
> When that's over, it goes back.
So, if I understand right, as soon as he gets controlled he'll have either
to hunt or to bleed, then he goes back ?
And does he go back tapped ?
--
Yours,
Orpheus, Prince of Nowhere
http://no.exit.free.fr (onlive novel)
http://cypheranima.free.fr (goth band)
news://news.zoo-logique.org/VTES-francophone
audio...@yahoogroups.com
In message <9vi4ag$ppg$1...@wanadoo.fr>, Orpheus <orph...@wanadoo.fr>
writes:
>> It is the end of the next action after this one finishes.
>>
>> The stolen vampire is given a mandatory action to perform, so they must
>> perform it. (Either that or they already have a mandatory action, from
>> the hunt.)
>>
>> When that's over, it goes back.>
>So, if I understand right, as soon as he gets controlled he'll have either
>to hunt or to bleed, then he goes back ?
For some values of "as soon as". You could use the inter-action period
for Heidelberg Castle, say.
However, you steal him. The next action you can and must take will be
the bleed or hunt, per card text.
(Or some other mandatory action, possibly - I can't think off the top of
my head how to achieve that one, but it's probably possible. Oh, okay,
maybe you manage to untap the acting vampire and they're empty and they
get a mandatory hunt action.)
Assuming no funny business, however, you'll have the stolen vampire with
a mandatory action which is the next action you'll have to take.
>And does he go back tapped ?
He'll go back in whatever form he's in at the end of the action. For
instance, if you play Daring the Dawn (assuming the right disciplines
etc.), he'll go back in torpor. If you desperately needed to cycle
Freak Drive, he'd go back untapped.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message
news:iKLc5IYO...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk...
> In message <9vi4ag$ppg$1...@wanadoo.fr>, Orpheus <orph...@wanadoo.fr>
> writes:
> >> It is the end of the next action after this one finishes.
> >>
> >> The stolen vampire is given a mandatory action to perform, so they must
> >> perform it. (Either that or they already have a mandatory action, from
> >> the hunt.)
(snip)
> However, you steal him. The next action you can and must take will be
> the bleed or hunt, per card text.
Well...
nothing says the stolen vampire has to bleed *right away*. (card text)
I think you can borrow a vampire, have it on your side to call a referendum
(ancient influence ? political stranglehold ?) with another of your
vampires -you can use the voice of the marionetted vamp'. Then after this
referendum is complete, the borrowed vampire goes back to his original
controller.
Am i wrong ?
reyda
>
> "OBE : take control of any ready tapped minon *until the end of the next
> action*. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt."
>
Can I bleed with the stolen vamp via Force of Will (if he/she has for,
obviously)?
In message <rX5T7.317014$sq5.15...@news.infostrada.it>,
"Cartman" <federi...@libero.it> mumbled something about:
[ quoted text not captured ]
True card text reads "take control of any ready UNTAPPED minion".
So nope, can't force of will.
--
"Grod come smash THAT vampire now."
Reyda wrote:
> Well...
> nothing says the stolen vampire has to bleed *right away*. (card text)
Not true. It says "must". Mandatory actions must be taken before non-mandatory
ones.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
> >> "OBE : take control of any ready tapped minon *until the end of the
next
> >> action*. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt."
> >>
> >Can I bleed with the stolen vamp via Force of Will (if he/she has for,
> >obviously)?
>
> True card text reads "take control of any ready UNTAPPED minion".
>
> So nope, can't force of will.
Except if you can tap him first with Jar the Soul... Can you do that on a
minion you control (it says "any ready minion") ?
[ quoted text not captured ]
"Orpheus" <orph...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:9vj296$gvp$1...@wanadoo.fr...
Re: Spirit Marionette
> > True card text reads "take control of any ready UNTAPPED minion".
> > So nope, can't force of will.> Except if you can tap him first with Jar the Soul... Can you do that on a
> minion you control (it says "any ready minion") ?
You can Jar the Soul on a minion you control, yes.
You cannot do that in the case of Spirit Marionette.
Pertinent card text:
"That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt."
Mandatory actions are ALWAYS taken before any other action can occur.
"The mandatory action must be taken before any non-mandatory
actions. [LSJ 20001127]"
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
http://www.TheLasombra.com
--
Posted from att-98-60-253.atl.mediaone.net [24.98.60.253]
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
In message <9vj296$gvp$1...@wanadoo.fr>,
"Orpheus" <orph...@wanadoo.fr> mumbled something about:
>> True card text reads "take control of any ready UNTAPPED minion".
>>
>> So nope, can't force of will.>
>Except if you can tap him first with Jar the Soul... Can you do that on a
>minion you control (it says "any ready minion") ?
Can't. The must-bleed is a mandatory action, and happens before you can
take any other actions with other vampires.
[ quoted text not captured ]
What happens if the stolen vampire is forbid from bleeding (say I
performed an enticement that turn, or I ousted my prey, and I take
control of one of my former grand prey, now mt prey). Can he then
perform another (non-bleed) action? or he'll just stay where he is
until I take another action? what if I don't take any more actions
this turn?
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:3C1CFFCF...@white-wolf.com...
> Reyda wrote:
> > Well...
> > nothing says the stolen vampire has to bleed *right away*. (card text)
>
> Not true. It says "must". Mandatory actions must be taken before
non-mandatory
> ones.
okay ! i was just guessing. It was no rule lawyering in any case. But i 'll
have to update my deck now... =)
reyda
[ quoted text not captured ]
In message <76rp1us5grt1hhehb...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray
<lor...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>Can I bleed with the stolen vamp via Force of Will (if he/she has for,
>>obviously)?>
>True card text reads "take control of any ready UNTAPPED minion".
Hmm... what happens if the targeted vampire taps during the action (e.g.
blocks and then the action is continued with Form of Mist)? My brain
isn't working fast enough at the moment.
[ quoted text not captured ]
> > Alright ; but can I tap the Heidelburgh before the bleed ?
>
> (Heidelberg) Yes.
Isn't Heidelburgh a much better name ? ;-)
> You can tap it between actions.
Thank you.
Beware, Marionettes !!! :-)
In message <VR6hvAGK...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>,
James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> mumbled something about:
>In message <76rp1us5grt1hhehb...@4ax.com>, Derek Ray
><lor...@yahoo.com> writes:>>>Can I bleed with the stolen vamp via Force of Will (if he/she has for,
>>>obviously)?>>
>>True card text reads "take control of any ready UNTAPPED minion".>
>Hmm... what happens if the targeted vampire taps during the action (e.g.
>blocks and then the action is continued with Form of Mist)? My brain
>isn't working fast enough at the moment.
No card text specifying "untap this minion", so you would get control of
a tapped minion, who would then be forced to bleed if possible. You
could, theoretically, then Force of Will with that minion, but not do
anything else -- and so you would just get a tapped minion for the next
action. If you didn't have any minions left who could take actions, I
suppose it would return to the controller after the next action taken by
anyone.
Conveniently, this is sufficiently corner-case that it is unlikely to
arise. :)
[ quoted text not captured ]
>>Hmm... what happens if the targeted vampire taps during the action (e.g.
>>blocks and then the action is continued with Form of Mist)? My brain
>>isn't working fast enough at the moment.>
>No card text specifying "untap this minion", so you would get control of
>a tapped minion, who would then be forced to bleed if possible. You
>could, theoretically, then Force of Will with that minion, but not do
>anything else -- and so you would just get a tapped minion for the next
>action. If you didn't have any minions left who could take actions, I
>suppose it would return to the controller after the next action taken by
>anyone.
Really? I got the impression that the action fizzles, since the target is no
longer valid. (Just like stealing a Bomb which is used in the ensuring combat,
and is then Form of Mist'ed, or stealing a Retainer that is killed in the
blocking combat before the action is continued). Since the target is no longer
ready *and* untapped, nothing happens.
Halcyan 2
In message <3C1DD5F0...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white-
wolf.com> writes:
<target vampire tapping during a Spirit Marionette action>
>> Really? I got the impression that the action fizzles, since the target is no
>> longer valid. (Just like stealing a Bomb which is used in the ensuring combat,
>> and is then Form of Mist'ed, or stealing a Retainer that is killed in the
>> blocking combat before the action is continued). Since the target is no longer
>> ready *and* untapped, nothing happens.>
>Correct.
Cool, that's what my very slow brain was telling me.
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]
But the card text says, "until the end of the next action". To me
that says that no matter who takes the next action, you only get the
stolen minion until the end of the next action. It doesn't say,
"until the end of THIS minion's next action".
>Mandatory actions are ALWAYS taken before any other action can occur.
>"The mandatory action must be taken before any non-mandatory
>actions. [LSJ 20001127]"
True, but I don't really think it matters much if this minion's action
is maditory or not. You only get him/her until the end of the next
action. If you don't take the next action with the stolen minion you
will not get the act with that minion....
Am I interpreting that line of text wrong?
[ quoted text not captured ]
He's just stuck in limbo. Happens all the time. An empty vampire who hunts
(gains one) and then Freak Drives is untapped and stuck in limbo. An empty
vampire with a Reality cannot do anything, etc. Must do something and cannot do
that something means he just does nothing.
Halcyan 2
Tobias Loehr wrote:
> >Mandatory actions are ALWAYS taken before any other action can occur.
> >"The mandatory action must be taken before any non-mandatory
> >actions. [LSJ 20001127]"
>
> True, but I don't really think it matters much if this minion's action
> is maditory or not. You only get him/her until the end of the next
> action. If you don't take the next action with the stolen minion you
> will not get the act with that minion....
>
> Am I interpreting that line of text wrong?
No. But your next action *will* be that mandatory action unless you
have somehow managed to come up with another mandatory action since
the "Spirit Marionette" action (a non-mandatory action itself).
It could be done, but it isn't likely.
[ quoted text not captured ]
>No. But your next action *will* be that mandatory action unless you
>have somehow managed to come up with another mandatory action since
>the "Spirit Marionette" action (a non-mandatory action itself).
>
>It could be done, but it isn't likely.
Well, if the vampire who plays the Spirit Marionette plays a Freak Drive (or
untaps after needing to use blood to gain stealth) and is now empty, he needs
to hunt...
Halcyan 2