[LSJ] Questions that came up yesterday

* A vamp in torpor can't get blood from a Hunting Ground, correct? * Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from a successful block? I seem to remember that it is played after the combat, but I couldn't find any reference to that. * Mask 1k Faces - Jost Werner bleeds at +1 stealth (as per his special). Prey declines to block because they don't have the requisite intercept. Dimple then Masks the (now successful bleed) action. Is this legal? If so, can the Prey attempt to block now that the action is at 0 stealth? Sorrow --- I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am anymore |-------------------------------- I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...? anymore | you never seen anyone try to I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Sorrow" <cbo...@apdi.net> wrote: > * A vamp in torpor can't get blood from a Hunting Ground, correct? Correct. A vampire in torpor is not "ready", and HGs only feed "ready" vampires, by card text. > * Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from > a successful block? > I seem to remember that it is played after the combat, but I couldn't > find any reference to that. Inferior: after, yes. > * Mask 1k Faces - Jost Werner bleeds at +1 stealth (as per his special). > Prey declines to block because they don't have the requisite intercept. > Dimple then Masks the (now successful bleed) action. > Is this legal? Yes. > If so, can the Prey attempt to block now that the action > is at 0 stealth? No, since she has already declined to block and Mask doesn't create another block-opportunity-window. -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Sorrow wrote: > * A vamp in torpor can't get blood from a Hunting Ground, correct? Correct. I believe the text states 'ready' vampire. Torporized vamps aren't ready. > > > * Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from > a successful block? > I seem to remember that it is played after the combat, but I couldn't > find any reference to that. > I have always played if directly after the block succeeds (before combat), as a minion has to be untapped to play a reaction card (unless the card states...). So I would assume the reacting vampire, if successful in blocking, plays the Cat's Guidance and untaps. Then he enters combat with the acting minion untapped. > * Mask 1k Faces - Jost Werner bleeds at +1 stealth (as per his special). > Prey declines to block because they don't have the requisite intercept. > Dimple then Masks the (now successful bleed) action. > Is this legal? If so, can the Prey attempt to block now that the action > is > at 0 stealth? > That's a tough one. Does the original action, which was at +1 stealth, continue at +1 stealth? Either way, I'd say the Prey can't block because he/she has already declined. The Mask would be like a Bonding or other modifier that was added after the Prey declined. Hope I got all that correct, p.

>> * Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from >> a successful block? >> I seem to remember that it is played after the combat, but I couldn't >> find any reference to that. >Inferior: after, yes. The card text is ambigous. It only states 'after the block'. Where can I find reference that you use the card after combat? I tried your site, but it seems to be having problems. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:19:49 GMT, vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote: >> * Mask 1k Faces - Jost Werner bleeds at +1 stealth (as per his special). >> Prey declines to block because they don't have the requisite intercept. >> Dimple then Masks the (now successful bleed) action. >> Is this legal? > >Yes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Mask illegal since Dimple couldn't have begun a bleed action at +1 stealth? Of course, if he just say "I don't block", it doesn't matter, but couldn't phrasing change that around, ie. "i try and fail to block" guaranteeing you couldn't Mask it over to dimple? -- Derek (replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)

LSJ wrote: > > * Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from > > a successful block? > > I seem to remember that it is played after the combat, but I couldn't > > find any reference to that. > > Inferior: after, yes. Is this just a special case for Cat's Guidance? I thought a minion had to be untapped, unless the card states, to play a reaction. If there's something listed in the card errata, I probably just missed it.p.

In article <36ED7ABF...@alpinetaxi.com>, Patrick Harris <alp...@alpinetaxi.com> writes >> Inferior: after, yes. > >Is this just a special case for Cat's Guidance? I thought a minion had to be >untapped, unless the card states, to play a reaction. Cat's Guidance does, by implication. It's after the block, so after the tapping part, I presume. -- James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England) Vampire: Elder Kindred Network http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk

In article <9fdH2.48$r8....@monger.newsread.com>, "AgentZero" <agen...@my-dejanews.com> wrote: > >> * Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from > >> a successful block? > >> I seem to remember that it is played after the combat, but I couldn't > >> find any reference to that. > >Inferior: after, yes. > > The card text is ambigous. It only states 'after the block'. Where can > I find reference that you use the card after combat? I tried your site, > but it seems to be having problems. ? You just quoted a reference. For further clarification/ruling: The combat resulting from a block is part of the block. "After block" is after that combat. The Rulemonger site is mirrored in two places. If one of the mirrors is down, try another: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/9876/ [ quoted text not captured ]

lor...@nospam.nineball.org (Derek S. Ray) wrote: > On Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:19:49 GMT, vte...@wizards.com (LSJ) wrote: > > >> * Mask 1k Faces - Jost Werner bleeds at +1 stealth (as per his special). > >> Prey declines to block because they don't have the requisite intercept. > >> Dimple then Masks the (now successful bleed) action. > >> Is this legal? > > > >Yes. > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Mask illegal since Dimple > couldn't have begun a bleed action at +1 stealth? The action is not "bleed at +1 stealth", it is "bleed". Dimple could've begun such an action. Likewise, if Ozmo begins a bleed action, the action will have +1 bleed (Ozmo's bonus). Dimple may Mask that action, as well. > Of course, if he > just say "I don't block", it doesn't matter, but couldn't phrasing > change that around, ie. "i try and fail to block" guaranteeing you > couldn't Mask it over to dimple? No. A failed attempt to block does not preclude the use of Mask. [ quoted text not captured ]

Patrick Harris <alp...@alpinetaxi.com> wrote: > LSJ wrote: > > > * Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from > > > a successful block? > > > I seem to remember that it is played after the combat, but I couldn't > > > find any reference to that. > > > > Inferior: after, yes. > > Is this just a special case for Cat's Guidance? I thought a minion had to be > untapped, unless the card states, to play a reaction. If there's something > listed in the card errata, I probably just missed it.p. Cat's guidance effect is to untap this vampire. As such, it is worthless if the vampire has to be untapped to play it in the first place. Errata was issued to correct that problem. [LSJ 09-JUL-1998] [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ wrote: > Patrick Harris <alp...@alpinetaxi.com> wrote: > > LSJ wrote: > > > > * Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from > > > > a successful block? > > > > I seem to remember that it is played after the combat, but I couldn't > > > > find any reference to that. > > > > > > Inferior: after, yes. > > > > Is this just a special case for Cat's Guidance? I thought a minion had to be > > untapped, unless the card states, to play a reaction. If there's something > > listed in the card errata, I probably just missed it.p. > > Cat's guidance effect is to untap this vampire. As such, it is worthless if > the vampire has to be untapped to play it in the first place. Errata was > issued to correct that problem. [LSJ 09-JUL-1998] > I was thinking along the lines of Obedience, where the vampire untaps just as he taps to enter combat. He's not really tapped yet, but...you know what I mean. Thanks for the clarification though. The "ensuing combat is part of the block" cinched it for me. p.

> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Mask illegal since Dimple > > couldn't have begun a bleed action at +1 stealth? > The action is not "bleed at +1 stealth", it is "bleed". > Dimple could've begun such an action. So if Arika began a bleed (which, if successful, would be for 3), Dimple could Mask? What if Arika's prey attempted to block and Arika threw down Lost in Crowds (at superior) for +2 stealth, could Dimple then Mask the 3 bleed at +2 stealth? a0 [ quoted text not captured ]

agen...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Mask illegal since Dimple > > > couldn't have begun a bleed action at +1 stealth? > > The action is not "bleed at +1 stealth", it is "bleed". > > Dimple could've begun such an action. > > So if Arika began a bleed (which, if successful, would be for 3), > Dimple could Mask? What if Arika's prey attempted to block and Yes. He would then be bleeding for 1. > Arika threw down Lost in Crowds (at superior) for +2 stealth, > could Dimple then Mask the 3 bleed at +2 stealth? Not unless he has superior Obfuscate: Mask of 1000 Faces - Action Modifier (obf) * Mask cannot be used to mask an action if the Masking vampire is not capable of taking that action, nor if any action modifiers have been played on this action that could not have been played if the Masking vampire were the acting minion. (Not counting blood that has already been spent.) [RTR 980623] -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- [ quoted text not captured ]

>>Is this just a special case for Cat's Guidance? I thought a minion had to be >>untapped, unless the card states, to play a reaction. > >Cat's Guidance does, by implication. > >It's after the block, so after the tapping part, I presume. Combat/block is considerd part of the action. Cat's Guidance is used after the block. Ergo Cat's Guidance is played after combat has finished, if there is a combat. James Floate Vying for control of Sydney

In article <7cj9t0$rt6$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, cbo...@apdi.net says... > >* A vamp in torpor can't get blood from a Hunting Ground, correct? It is a ready vampire so I don't see why not? >* Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from > a successful block? I always play it after combat-but technically I guess by following card text you could play it prior to combat >* Mask 1k Faces - Jost Werner bleeds at +1 stealth (as per his special). > Prey declines to block because they don't have the requisite intercept. > Dimple then Masks the (now successful bleed) action. That can be done but the special +1 stealth would go and since dimple doesn't have sup Obfuscate the action would be at 0 stealth and your prey could try to block Jus tryin to help

Colin Gunning) wrote: > >* A vamp in torpor can't get blood from a Hunting Ground, correct? > It is a ready vampire so I don't see why not? Incorrect. A vampire in torpor is "controlled" but not "ready". Noal -- "Excuse me. Are you a yuppie?" -woman at a gas station in Detroit [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <7cp9in$r33$5...@news.netusa1.net>, ml...@netusa1.net (Colin Gunning) wrote: > >* A vamp in torpor can't get blood from a Hunting Ground, correct? > It is a ready vampire so I don't see why not? Actually, a vampire in torpor is controlled but not ready. So they cannot get the blood from the HG. Kinda makes sense when you think that they are sort of comatose and can't make it to the pub for a pint of O+ . ;-) > >* Cat's Guidance - is it played before or after resulting combat from > > a successful block? > I always play it after combat-but technically I guess by following card text > you could play it prior to combat Again, not quite correct. Cat's Guidance and Freak Drive are played after the combat resulting from a block (if any) are concluded. (http://deckserver.net/cgi- deckserver/rulemonger?page=searchresults&keywords=guidance&d=&cl=j&cl=ds&cl=a h&c l=sab&l=4&l=3&l=2&l=1&l=D&fmt=full&id=c&sort=&per=1&first=2) > >* Mask 1k Faces - Jost Werner bleeds at +1 stealth (as per his special). > > Prey declines to block because they don't have the requisite intercept. > > Dimple then Masks the (now successful bleed) action. > That can be done but the special +1 stealth would go and since dimple doesn't > have sup Obfuscate the action would be at 0 stealth and your prey could try to > block Unfortunately, again, not quite correct. As the question was posed, his "Prey declines to block" so there is no block attempt. After the mask the action is at 0 stealth, but his Prey has already declined to block the action and cannot choose to attempt to block at this time. If, like a sensible player, his prey had attempted to block with someone and failed because his minion did not have the appropriate intercept, I do believe that the action would be blocked. However, this is an interesting question since the minion who was attempting to block has failed in his attempt before the mask is played. I assume that the Mask re-evaluates the block attempt (if any) while not allowing for a new attempt to block. From LSJ - 'A minion attempting to block before the Mask was played is still attempting to block after the Mask is played'-(http://deckserver.net/cgi- deckserver/rulemonger?page=searchresults&keywords=mask&d=&cl=j&cl=ds&cl=ah&cl =sa b&l=4&l=3&l=2&l=1&l=D&fmt=full&id=c&sort=&per=1&first=9) > Jus tryin to help Ditto, Stu -Your Friendly Neighborhood Camarilla Scholar [ quoted text not captured ]

pie...@my-dejanews.com wrote: > In article <7cp9in$r33$5...@news.netusa1.net>, ml...@netusa1.net (Colin Gunning) > wrote: > > >* Mask 1k Faces - Jost Werner bleeds at +1 stealth (as per his special). > > > Prey declines to block because they don't have the requisite intercept. > > > Dimple then Masks the (now successful bleed) action. > > That can be done but the special +1 stealth would go and since dimple doesn't > > have sup Obfuscate the action would be at 0 stealth and your prey could try > to > > block > > Unfortunately, again, not quite correct. As the question was posed, his > "Prey declines to block" so there is no block attempt. After the mask the > action is at 0 stealth, but his Prey has already declined to block the action > and cannot choose to attempt to block at this time. If, like a sensible > player, his prey had attempted to block with someone and failed because his > minion did not have the appropriate intercept, I do believe that the action > would be blocked. However, this is an interesting question since the minion > who was attempting to block has failed in his attempt before the mask is > played. I assume that the Mask re-evaluates the block attempt (if any) while > not allowing for a new attempt to block. No. That previous block attempt is no longer "in progress" - once the Meth. declined to block (for lack of intercept, for instance), then there are no blocks in progress and no further blocks to be considered. > From LSJ - 'A minion attempting to > block before the Mask was played is still attempting to block after the Mask > is played'-(http://deckserver.net/cgi- > deckserver/rulemonger?page=searchresults&keywords=mask&d=&cl=j&cl=ds&cl=ah&cl > =sa b&l=4&l=3&l=2&l=1&l=D&fmt=full&id=c&sort=&per=1&first=9) That applies if the Mask is played after the attempt to block is declared and before the Meth declares "no block." [ quoted text not captured ]