weeny breed rush - is this tournament viable ?

Deck Name: brujah weeny rush Created by: seba Description: Breed rush. so far untested. any comments ? would this build be tournament viable ? far too many master cards but all seem neede pot master can always be discarded patheon to help as is heart can this work ? no stealth or intercept (ecept carlton) do i need change of target or something like that ? Crypt [12 vampires, average capacity: 4.42] 4x Rake PRE aus cel pot 6 Brujah:1 prince 4x Volker, The Puppet Prin CEL pot 5 Brujah:2 prince 1x Dre, Leader of the Cold cel pot 3 Brujah:1 1x Raziya Samater ani pot 3 Brujah:2 1x Lupo pot 2 Brujah:1 1x Hasina Kesi pot 1 Caitiff:1 Library [90 cards] Master [27] 1x Barrens, The 4x Blood Doll 4x Brujah Debate 2x Dreams of the Sphinx 7x Frontal Assault 3x Parthenon, The 5x Potence 1x Warzone Hunting Ground Action [10] 10x Third Tradition: Progeny Ally [2] 1x Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter) 1x Ossian Equipment [2] 2x Heart of Nizchetus Event [1] 1x Dragonbound Political Action [4] 4x Consanguineous Boon Reaction [4] 4x On the Qui Vive Combat [40] 10x Disarm 15x Immortal Grapple 15x Torn Signpost Crafted with: Anarch Revolt Deck Builder [Wed Jun 27 04:57:48 2007]

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:00:20 -0700, seba <regie...@gmx.de> wrote: >Deck Name: brujah weeny rush >Created by: seba >Description: Breed rush. so far untested. any comments ? would this >build be tournament viable ? There are ~15 similar decks, here: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/rgtcjdeckarchive/msearch?query=brujah+debate from which you might draw some inspiration. >far too many master cards but all seem >neede pot master can always be discarded patheon to help as is heart >can this work ? no stealth or intercept (ecept carlton) do i need >change of target or something like that ? I would be using long range strikes, and I would swap the number of Brujah Debates and Frontal Assaults. >Crypt [12 vampires, average capacity: 4.42] >4x Rake PRE aus cel pot 6 Brujah:1 prince >4x Volker, The Puppet Prin CEL pot 5 Brujah:2 prince >1x Dre, Leader of the Cold cel pot 3 Brujah:1 >1x Raziya Samater ani pot 3 Brujah:2 >1x Lupo pot 2 Brujah:1 >1x Hasina Kesi pot 1 Caitiff:1 Hasina gets no benefit from the Debates. She is the first to go. You must not play this deck without Keyser Söze (Hector Sosa), so swamp him in for Hasina. Slim down on the duplicates, and add Yuri the Talon. Consider Bianca and Anvil to replace some of the other duplicates. I would definitely not use more than 3 of each of the princes, and I personally would be inclined to use the Eurobrujah as well, but it will slow you down an extra turn to bring them out. >Library [90 cards] >Master [27] >1x Barrens, The >4x Blood Doll >4x Brujah Debate >2x Dreams of the Sphinx >7x Frontal Assault >3x Parthenon, The >5x Potence >1x Warzone Hunting Ground >Action [10] >10x Third Tradition: Progeny Embraces would be a better choice, as Rake will always be tapped on your turn. (If the Debates are working as you like.) >Ally [2] >1x Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter) >1x Ossian I don't know that Ossian fits here. >Equipment [2] >2x Heart of Nizchetus >Event [1] >1x Dragonbound You are likely to have many weenies in torpor and no way to rescue them with your current combat package. I would rethink this. >Political Action [4] >4x Consanguineous Boon >Reaction [4] >4x On the Qui Vive Second Tradition is a vastly superior choice, as Rake will be tapped for the Debates and you need to make use of him. >Combat [40] >10x Disarm >15x Immortal Grapple >15x Torn Signpost I would swap Pulled Fangs for half of the Disarms. Once you have Disarmed your prey's vampires, they can't be sent to torpor by a new Disarm, and your predator will spend a little time rescuing your prey's vampires just to slow you down.

[ quoted text not captured ] You want 15 Masters, since you will be discarding all of your Potence skill cards: 5 Brujah Debate 2 Fame 1 Blood Doll 2 Tributes 5 Potence >> Action [10] >> 10x Third Tradition: Progeny > > Embraces would be a better choice, as Rake will always be tapped on > your turn. (If the Debates are working as you like.) Too many, drop down to 7-8 > >> Ally [2] >> 1x Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter) >> 1x Ossian > > I don't know that Ossian fits here. Agreed. > >> Equipment [2] >> 2x Heart of Nizchetus You only need 1 or none. > >> Event [1] >> 1x Dragonbound > > You are likely to have many weenies in torpor and no way to rescue > them with your current combat package. I would rethink this. I would switch out for Anthelios. > >> Political Action [4] >> 4x Consanguineous Boon Choose Ancilla instead, you will much more likely pass it. > >> Reaction [4] >> 4x On the Qui Vive > > Second Tradition is a vastly superior choice, as Rake will be tapped > for the Debates and you need to make use of him. > >> Combat [40] >> 10x Disarm >> 15x Immortal Grapple >> 15x Torn Signpost > > I would swap Pulled Fangs for half of the Disarms. Once you have > Disarmed your prey's vampires, they can't be sent to torpor by a new > Disarm, and your predator will spend a little time rescuing your > prey's vampires just to slow you down. Cel Guns will kill you. Add a few Sewer Lids. The rest of the cards should either be bleed enhancers (retainers, laptops), or rush cards. best - chris -- Super Fun Cards http://stores.ebay.com/superfuncards/ auct...@superfuncards.com

In article <1182913220....@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, seba <regie...@gmx.de> wrote: > 4x Rake PRE aus cel pot 6 Brujah:1 prince > 4x Volker, The Puppet Prin CEL pot 5 Brujah:2 prince > 1x Dre, Leader of the Cold cel pot 3 Brujah:1 > 1x Raziya Samater ani pot 3 Brujah:2 > 1x Lupo pot 2 Brujah:1 > 1x Hasina Kesi pot 1 Caitiff:1 If you are going to go with 4 each of two mid cap princes, you might as well go with 4 each of Constanza Vinti and Donnal O'Connor (i.e. the Euro Brujah) if you can get them. They also have Dominate, which I hear is good. > Library [90 cards] > > Master [27] > > 1x Barrens, The > 4x Blood Doll > 4x Brujah Debate > 2x Dreams of the Sphinx > 7x Frontal Assault > 3x Parthenon, The > 5x Potence > 1x Warzone Hunting Ground 27 masters is, as you note, way too many masters. And will get you killed. On the up side, the potence masters come out quickly. Maybe turn the 3 Parthenon, Barrens, 1 of the Blood Dolls, and Warzone Hunting Ground into something else (Taste of Vitae?), leaving you at 21 masters, of which 5 come out when you make kids. Also. having only Frontal Assault as your Rush is dubious--you can only get your prey, so you can defensively back rush. And if someone has a Sudden Reversal, you can't do anything that turn. You also have no Fame. Which is problematic in a deck like this. > > Action [10] > > 10x Third Tradition: Progeny > > Ally [2] > > 1x Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter) > 1x Ossian Ossian is probably not a good idea. > > Equipment [2] > > 2x Heart of Nizchetus > Event [1] > > 1x Dragonbound Dragonbound is just as likely to kill you as anyone else with all the weenie vampires. > Political Action [4] > > 4x Consanguineous Boon > > Reaction [4] > > 4x On the Qui Vive Without intercept or reaction, these are better off as Rush actions. Or Blood Hunt, so you can mark someone for mass rush abuse. > > Combat [40] > > 10x Disarm > 15x Immortal Grapple > 15x Torn Signpost Well, here is the thing. Assuming you run into no: -manevers -fortitude -guns You'll be sending folks to torpor, but they'll get back out quickly, as they are still going to have blood and you can't stop them from rescuing. You have reasonable ousting power from a lot of little guys, but limited defense. Anyone who has any sort of reasonable hit back combat defense (guns, animalism) is going to shut you down and anyone with reliable manuvers or fortitude is also going to shut you down. I like the idea in theory, but it has flaws. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html

Rake PRE aus cel pot 6 Brujah:1 Prince x3 Volker, The Puppet Prin CEL pot 5 Prince x3 Dre, Leader of the Cold cel pot 3 x1 Raziya Samater ani pot 3 x1 Lupo pot 2 x1 Uma Hatch pres cel 3 x1 Vasilis, 2 pres x1 Angel, cel 2 Master: WMRH Talk Radio x1 Celerity x4 Blood Doll x4 Brujah Debate x8 Parthenon, The x3 Channel 10 x1 Oxford University x2 Creep Show Casino x1 Political: KRC x4 Parity Shift x4 Desputed Terretory x2 Consagious Boon x2 Archon x2 Brujah Justicar x1 Praxis Seizure x5 Equipment: Sports Bike x2 Action Mod: Awe x4 Bewitching Orrintaion x4 Combat Psyche x7 Pursuit x8 Blur x6 Pulled Fangs x4 Reaction: 2nd Tradition x10 Event: Red Star x1 Total 90

Mass Debaters (Sorry about the doubling up) Here is a Varity of a Brujah debate deck that has done well for me in our meta group. Maybe some of these ideas may be of use for you. I found I only really needed 2-3 debates in play to be effective. The deck holds it own against other combat decks. Of course there are combat decks that could/will trump this deck, this is why I went the celerity angle as you can be more defensive when other combat....but hey thats vtes, no one deck can guard against all others obviously. Once set up it usually has had enough intercept to discourage and defend the burning of Bru/Debates, and if they do get burnt it's not so bad if you have the Anthelios in play, you can get the debate or any master you want in your discard pile back if you need to, also good for cycling masters. Oxford Uni is obviously for vote pushing but it's also useful when your prey/pred have pool under yours and you want to parity shift, call a KRC or some other vote that is not a parity shift burn the required pool to add votes, then your next vote can be a parity. I placed pulled fangs in there to KEEP vamps in torpor seem to work better than disarms I had in there. Originally I had 4-6 Tastes of Vitae, but I increased the amount of blood dolls as I found this worked better and is more useful when parity shifting. Crypt:- 3 Rake 3 Volker 1 Dre 1 Raziya Samater 1 Lupo 1 Uma Hatch 1 Vasilis 1 Angel Master (24) 1 WMRH Talk Radio 4 Celerity 5 Blood Doll 7 Brujah Debate 3 Parthenon 1 Channel 10 2 Oxford University 1 Creep Show Casino Political (17) 4 KRC 4 Parity Shift 1 Disputed Territory 1 Consag Boon 1 Archon 1 Brujah Justicar 5 Various Praxis Seizures Equipment(2) 2 Sports Bike Action Mod(7) 4 Awe 3 Bewitching Orientation Combat(28) 7 Psyche 8 Pursuit 6 Side Strike 3 Stunt Cycle 4 Pulled Fangs Reaction (10) 10 Second Tradition Event (2) 2 Anthelios (the red star)

Small Gangrel Embrace Gangrel Revel Frontal Assault All your weenies hit for 2 and FAR, FAR, FAR less moving parts?

[ quoted text not captured ] Far, far, far less oomph, also. "All your weenies hit for 2" is a lot less power than "All your weenies hit for 4 with three optional maneuvers per combat." (Brujah Debates stack, if you'd missed that.) - D.J.

On Jun 28, 2:45 pm, Meej <d...@comcast.net> wrote: > > Far, far, far less oomph, also. "All your weenies hit for 2" is a lot > less power than "All your weenies hit for 4 with three optional > maneuvers per combat." > > (Brujah Debates stack, if you'd missed that.) > > - D.J. I missed nothing. The point was; a tradeoff for less effective individual weenies vs more weenies earlier... (g revel doesn't tap your vampires, meaning they keep breeding)

On Jun 28, 10:05 am, rdcot...@gmail.com wrote: > I missed nothing. > > The point was; a tradeoff for less effective individual weenies vs > more weenies earlier... > > (g revel doesn't tap your vampires, meaning they keep breeding) Gotcha. Hadn't quite followed your point; apologies. I thought you were suggesting it as a somewhat-more-equal alternative. I can see the increase in weenie turnout, it just seems like it'd be too easily foiled by, say, a single permanent maneuver. I'm also not seeing the huge difference in "moving parts" - BD leaves you with one less minion, and encourages Parthenons and things, but the supplemental stuff isn't core function. Could be something I'm missing in this, though. The Gangrel version might be interesting to try to work with, though - unlike Debating Team decks, I don't know that I've seen one based on the Revel before. - D.J.

hey i myselfe missed that brujah debate stack :) good to know will rework deck based on that :). do i have to tap only the one with the biggerst cap with multible debates ? greatings from germany - seba

seba wrote: > hey > > i myselfe missed that brujah debate stack :) good to know will rework > deck based on that :). do i have to tap only the one with the biggerst > cap with multible debates ? Only the one, yes.

thx for the offical statement of on that ... now who want to give me some 10 or so embraces for free :P :P :P :P :P

seba wrote: > > Description: Breed rush. so far untested. any comments ? would this > build be tournament viable ? far too many master cards but all seem > neede pot master can always be discarded patheon to help as is heart > can this work ? no stealth or intercept (ecept carlton) do i need > change of target or something like that ? Sorry for changing the theme from your deck idea to another, but from my experience the *best* breed rush is a Create Gargoyle. Something like this: Deck Name: Gargoyles_v20 Created By: Ilya Ginsburg (Ector) Description: Breed, Rush & Bleed Crypt: (15 cards, Min: 4, Max: 20, Avg: 2,6) -------------------------------------------- 3 Pugfar aus for vis POT 5 Gargoyle 6 Tupdog POT VIS 1 Gargoyle 1 Ember Wright aus dom 3 Tremere Antitribu 2 Brooke dom tha 3 Tremere Antitribu 1 Kurt Strauss aus tha DOM 5 Tremere Antitribu 1 Heinrick Schlempt tha 2 Tremere Antitribu 1 Jacob THA 2 Tremere Antitribu Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (17 cards) 5 Blood Doll 1 Hungry Coyote, The 4 Potence 1 Fame 2 Haven Uncovered 1 University Hunting Ground 1 Frontal Assault 2 Dreams of the Sphinx Action (23 cards) 5 Games of Instinct 10 Create Gargoyle 3 Graverobbing 1 Defender of the Haven 4 Rumble Reaction (5 cards) 5 Deflection Combat (44 cards) 6 Crawling Chamber 4 Roll 12 Immortal Grapple 10 Raking Talons 6 Pounce 6 Stonestrength Equipment (1 cards) 1 Hand of Conrad Believe me, your progeny with inferior Potence is completely inferior to the 3-cap Gargoyle with Potence, Visceratika and Flight. My Gargoyles usually play aggropoke, so I need just two cards to torporize: Raking Talons and Immortal Grapple. Besides, the Sabbat rush cards (Games of Instinct and Rumble) are better than the "default" ones. Yours, Ector