In article <1995Feb23.2...@cs.cornell.edu>
kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) writes:
>Huh? What if such action is blocked by Famous vampire?
>(I defend my Fame - and got squashed. You take 3.)
There are so many ways around fame that I dont worry about it anymore
lemme try to remeber a few I've used:
(1) contest famous vampire..not always possible, but it works
(2) paralyze famous vampire...it's not torpor, so what if you have
pack a few stakes or rowan rings?
(3) downright toast em. we're talking lotsa agg. damage so they get
ripped so bad they do not pass torpor, dont lose 3 pool
(4) dont block :( not quite as fun as the rest
(5) if Malkavian, dementia them. Bum's rush and a few presses, bam.
now *they* lose 3 pool and he goes to torpor, whoopie!
(6) Amaranth. 'nuff said.
(7) That one, minor boon I think it is. The one that keeps a vamp.
from going to torpor and it can no longer bleed you...handy.
(8) sudden reversal. again, not as fun.
(9) block, but dont strike. nowhere in the rules does it say you *must*
hit them, eh?
(10) this is my favorite. Fame your own vampire (pref. tremere) and then
use a card that agg. damages both of you (body of sun, burst of sunlight
etc.) "You can burn in hell with me, Methuselah scum! MUAHAHA"
(11) variation on 9. Block, but have some IR goggles ready. Flak jacket
resplendant protector, etc. also works. Just make sure that neither
of you takes damage. (dodge, etc.)
(12) make a pact with them (multi-player games only). "dont do anything
to me with that famous vampire and I'll give you 1 pool thru the
Succubus club each turn or something dumb like that."
(13) Oust the freak that used the cheesy card. Lotsa ways around this.
seduction, day operation, massive stealth, probably some others
I dont know about...etc.
There's probably some more, but those spring to mind.
Anyone that says Jyhad is unbalanced is messed in the head.
Every offense has at least 3 defenses (or such), it's just a matter
of packing the right defense for the game. (not so easy)
-Geo
Geoff Coovert (CLC...@ukcc.uky.edu) wrote:
: In article <1995Feb23.2...@cs.cornell.edu>: kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) writes:
:
: >Huh? What if such action is blocked by Famous vampire?
: >(I defend my Fame - and got squashed. You take 3.)
:
: There are so many ways around fame that I dont worry about it anymore
: lemme try to remeber a few I've used:: (4) dont block :( not quite as fun as the rest
But he may use it to block and screw you anyway.
: (5) if Malkavian, dementia them. Bum's rush and a few presses, bam.: now *they* lose 3 pool and he goes to torpor, whoopie!
But you will still lose the 1 per untap. Not a bad as 3 though/
: (7) That one, minor boon I think it is. The one that keeps a vamp.: from going to torpor and it can no longer bleed you...handy.
See response to #5.
: (9) block, but dont strike. nowhere in the rules does it say you *must*
: hit them, eh?
You must chose a strike whether it be dodge, weapon, or hand. It has been
ruled that you MUST declare some strike during that phase.
:
In article <1735CFA8FS...@ukcc.uky.edu> CLC...@ukcc.uky.edu (Geoff Coovert) writes:
>
>There's probably some more, but those spring to mind.
>Anyone that says Jyhad is unbalanced is messed in the head.
>Every offense has at least 3 defenses (or such), it's just a matter
>of packing the right defense for the game. (not so easy)
>
The above argument is fallacious.
Again, the "Elastic Iron Arms" example:
-------------------
Elastic Iron Arms
Potence, Combat, no blood cost
Strike: 6R
(Superior) Strike: 8R
-------------------
There are at least 4 defenses against the above:
(1) Dodge
(2) Majesty
(3) stealth
(4) Skin of Steel
Do you think Jyhad would still be balanced if the above card
exists?
The fact that "defenses" exists for every strategy does not
mean that the game is balanced. If this doesn't convince
you, consider "Elastic Red-Hot Iron Arms", which is the
same as above except that it does aggravated damage at
first strike. (The above 4 defenses still work perfectly.)
--
"Live Life with Heart."
Alan Kwan kw...@cs.cornell.edu
In article <1735CFA8FS...@ukcc.uky.edu>,
Geoff Coovert <CLC...@ukcc.uky.edu> wrote:
>In article <1995Feb23.2...@cs.cornell.edu>
>kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) writes:
>>>Huh? What if such action is blocked by Famous vampire?
>>(I defend my Fame - and got squashed. You take 3.)>
>There are so many ways around fame that I dont worry about it anymore
>lemme try to remeber a few I've used:>(2) paralyze famous vampire...it's not torpor, so what if you have
> pack a few stakes or rowan rings?
Paralyzed vampires are placed in torpor. [15.3] This will trigger Fame's
effect.
In article <1735CFA8FS...@ukcc.uky.edu>,
Geoff Coovert <CLC...@ukcc.uky.edu> wrote:
>(9) block, but dont strike. nowhere in the rules does it say you *must*
> hit them, eh?>(11) variation on 9. Block, but have some IR goggles ready. Flak jacket> resplendant protector, etc. also works. Just make sure that neither
> of you takes damage. (dodge, etc.)
(9) won't work. The DTR has said that you can't choose no
strike as your strike. You have to choose something. (11) works fine.
| If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--*
| PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu
| ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** |
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------
"Carnivores, oy!" -- Timon, TLK
or, rticle <3jpo1n$i...@crl.crl.com>
lsc...@crl.com (L. Scott Johnson) writes:
>Paralyzed vampires are placed in torpor. [15.3] This will trigger Fame's
>effect.
You sure about this? I seem to remember seeing somewhere that
paralyzation was *like* torpor, but it cost no pool to bring out,
and the torporized vamp couldnt bring itself out, but I may be wrong.
Anyone? That'll ruin a perfectly good stragety :)
And I dont agree with the "must strike" ruling, neither does my group,
so we dont use it so there :-0
-Geo
>
> And I dont agree with the "must strike" ruling, neither does my group,
> so we dont use it so there :-0
> -Geo
>>>>>
Nothing personal Geo, and I don't want to rain on your parade, but if you don't use the "must strike" ruling you are TOTALLY changing
the face of the game. Of course they have to strike and do at least their one point. Otherwise, I can think of at least a dozen cards that
are no longer useful.
In article <3jvgtb$o...@mars.earthlink.net>, <kha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> And I dont agree with the "must strike" ruling, neither does my group,
>> so we dont use it so there :-0>>Nothing personal Geo, and I don't want to rain on your parade, but if you don't use the "must strike" ruling you are TOTALLY changing
>the face of the game. Of course they have to strike and do at least their one point. Otherwise, I can think of at least a dozen cards that
>are no longer useful.
Hey, I've got no problem with *anyone* using house rules, as
long as they know that they're house rules. If they know the official
rules, then we'll be able to play each other fine.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Geoff Coovert (CLC...@ukcc.uky.edu) wrote:
: lsc...@crl.com (L. Scott Johnson) writes:
:
: >Paralyzed vampires are placed in torpor. [15.3] This will trigger Fame's
: >effect.
:
: You sure about this? I seem to remember seeing somewhere that
: paralyzation was *like* torpor, but it cost no pool to bring out,
: and the torporized vamp couldnt bring itself out, but I may be wrong.
When in doubt, trust Scott. He keep careful tabs on DTRs and anything
Tom has said. Personally, I'll back him up here - he vampire is _in_
the torpor AREA, even if they are not in true 'torpor'. Simply being in
this area of the playing field is enough to trigger a Fame.
: And I dont agree with the "must strike" ruling, neither does my group,: so we dont use it so there :-0
That's fine to not agree with it (although I agree with another poster
that it completely changes much of the game) BUT you presented your house
rule as though it was a fact, and probably confused a few mewbies in the
process. Posting house rules is fine, and even welcomed - AS LONG AS
there is osmething that identifies them as a variant of the 'official' rules.
Shane Travis | A fanatic is someone who redoubles his effort
sht...@duke.usask.ca | when he has forgotten his aim.
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- George Santayana
In article <1995Mar10.0...@cs.cornell.edu>
kw...@cs.cornell.edu (Alan Kwan) writes:
>Again, the "Elastic Iron Arms" example:>Do you think Jyhad would still be balanced if the above card
>exists?
Yes...even if (somehow) it required no discipline, cost no blood,
and was a common, there are ways around it, part of an integral
part in planning deck design. The red hot iron arms allows
just another defense (Rotschreck) so no matter how
good the card is (those *F*ing Garous for one)
there is always a counter a drawback (they do cost 5 blood, ya know)
-Geo
In article <3jvgtb$o...@mars.earthlink.net> kha...@earthlink.net writes:
>>>
>> And I dont agree with the "must strike" ruling, neither does my group,
>> so we dont use it so there :-0
>>>>Nothing personal Geo, and I don't want to rain on your parade, but if you don't use the "must strike" ruling you are TOTALLY changing
>the face of the game. Of course they have to strike and do at least their one point. Otherwise, I can think of at least a dozen cards that
>are no longer useful.
I'd like to see a list of those. Fame? and what? I hope
you're not giving me a list of the most annoying cards
in the game.
It is possible that they designed Fame with no `must strike'
rule in mind, and (as usual) also `forgetting' to consider
combos such as Day Operation and Talbot's Chainsaw.
[ quoted text not captured ]