rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Lots and lots of questions :P

17 messages from 9 participants · 07 January 2001 – 10 January 2001
original thread on Google Groups

cantila

1) Telepahtic Vote Counting vs Elder Kindred Network. Just to make sure, you can use the inferior to cancel the vote and get rid of EKN as EKN is played? 2) Charming Lobby - I think I read it before, but I need to refresh my memory. The vote that auto-passes can be called by any player, it's simply the *next* vote that is called that auto-passes, correct? 3) I saw a rule-change about GtU and that using the inf and sup counts against the NRA rule, why was this done? And is it the same for all types of cards (such as Enchant Kindred, Cat's Burglary, Distraction etc) or only GtU? Is attacking a minion through Haven Uncovered and then Bum's Rush also prohibited through NRA? 4) Psyche! vs Illusions of the Kindred. If my opponent plays IotK and I counter with Psyche! I get to restart the combat with the real vamp right? What if I play Psyche! after combat ends with the illusionary kindred? Does combat restart with the illusion, the original vamp or simply nothing at all happens/impossible to do? (the latter is my guess since the illusion is gone it would be as like playing Psyche! against a vamp who just got burnt in combat). 5) Does Black Metamorphosis count against additional strikes? (my guess is yes, since rules say you can only *gain* additional strieks once per round). 6) PB Madrid vs Bloodbath. Does the Bloodbathed vamp count as titled for PB Madrid? 7) Courier. Can you tap two Couriers on the same bleed to burn two blood? Can you look at the top card through Courier #1 and then tap it to burn it, and then use Courier #2 to look at the next card and then tap it to burn that second card? 8) What happens if you play Return to Innocence and then call a Dramatic Upheaval. Who takes the loss of the RtI in my next untap? 9) Taste of Vitae vs agg dmg. A vamp has 2 blood and I strike for 2 agg dmg sending it to torpor with one blood, then I play a ToV, do I gain one or two blood? (my guess is two, since you inflicted two dmg). 10) Rules say you cannot press against your own presses, does that cover a Trap played by me? Or does the press from the Trap count as an environmental press? 11) Camarilla Threats - do I pay 1 pool per card I discard in discard phase or just 1 pool to gain that phase? 12) Can you play two Freak Drives on the same minion after two subsequent actions? Can you play a Freak drive as you go in torpor? (my guess is no and yes) 13) Does Secure Haven prevent Kostantin from stealing equipment from a minion? Is the minion considered to be the target for the action? 14) Sleeping Mind - Can you play WWEF and then after combat, Cat's Guidance? 15) First Tradition: Masquerade - if I skip two turns and pay 2 pool on the third round is the Masquerade then burnt? (says effect is cumulative but I want ot eb sure this is what was meant). 16) Nobody has actually thought of this in our playgroup until now, but can you play two Skin of Rock to prevent 4 damage from a strike? 17) Memories of Mortality - does Carrior Crows and the like (such as Murder of Crows and Drawing out the Beast) do damage to the ally? 18) Can same action mod be played if inf and sup provides totally different effects? (such as Telepathic Vote Coutning, rules says only one action mod of the same type can be played) 19) Pentex Subversion - Who can block the action taken to burn it. Only the controller? So if I play it on my prey and he tries to brun it, can my grandprey not block it? What if someone else but my prey tries to burn it? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/

cantila

Correction: 7) Courier. Can you tap two Couriers on the same bleed to burn two blood? Can you look at the top card through Courier #1 and then tap it to burn it, and then use Courier #2 to look at the next card and then tap it to burn that second card? should read: /.../Can you tap two Couriers on the same bleed to burn two cards?/.../ [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra

In article <93a8fp$poi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote: > 1) Telepahtic Vote Counting vs Elder Kindred Network. > Just to make sure, you can use the inferior to cancel the vote > and get rid of EKN as EKN is played? Or after the EKN is played, or as the vote is about to fail. > 2) Charming Lobby - I think I read it before, but I need to refresh my > memory. The vote that auto-passes can be called by any player, it's > simply the *next* vote that is called that auto-passes, correct? Correct. > 3) I saw a rule-change about GtU and that using the inf and sup counts > against the NRA rule, why was this done? This was not a change. It has always been the case. Explain how taking the action "Govern the Unaligned" is different from taking the action "Govern the Unaligned". The inferior and superior are the same action, they simply have different results. > And is it the same for all types of cards (such as Enchant Kindred, > Cat's Burglary, Distraction etc) or only GtU? All action cards. > Is attacking a minion through Haven Uncovered and then Bum's Rush > also prohibited through NRA? No. [6.4.1 of the tournament rules] There is not an action type called "attack a minion" or "enter combat with a minion", so these actions are not prohibited by the NRA rule which prohibits repeating actions by "type". "The defined "action types" are the ones defined in the rulebook: bleed, hunt, equip, employ retainer, recruit ally, political action, leave torpor, rescue a vampire from torpor, and diablerize a vampire in torpor." > 4) Psyche! vs Illusions of the Kindred. If my opponent plays IotK > and I counter with Psyche! You cannot play Psyche! as another combat has been started by the Illusions of the Kindred. > I get to restart the combat with the real vamp right? No. > What if I play Psyche! after combat ends with the illusionary > kindred? You cannot, there is no opposing minion for you to restart combat with. > Does combat restart with the illusion, the original vamp or > simply nothing at all happens/impossible to do? It is impossible to do, you may not play Psyche! in these circumstances. > 5) Does Black Metamorphosis count against additional strikes? > (my guess is yes, since rules say you can only *gain* additional > strikes once per round). Yes, because the card text does not specify otherwise. So, even though you have BM in play, you will only be able to use one additional strike when using Arms of the Abyss. > 6) PB Madrid vs Bloodbath. Does the Bloodbathed vamp count as titled > for PB Madrid? No. Bloodbath does not grant a title, it simply grants a vote. > 7) Courier. Can you tap two Couriers on the same bleed to burn two > blood? What are you talking about? You tap the Courier to burn cards not blood. You may tap multiple Couriers to burn multiple cards. > Can you look at the top card through Courier #1 and then tap it > to burn it, and then use Courier #2 to look at the next card and then > tap it to burn that second card? Yes. > 8) What happens if you play Return to Innocence and then call a > Dramatic Upheaval. Who takes the loss of the RtI in my next untap? Whoever your prey is at the time of your untap. > 9) Taste of Vitae vs agg dmg. A vamp has 2 blood and I strike for > 2 agg dmg sending it to torpor with one blood, then I play a ToV, do > I gain one or two blood? One. "This vampire gains an amount of blood equal to the amount lost by the opposing vampire to damage during this round of combat." The opposing vampire lost one blood to damage, so you may only gain one by playing Taste of Vitae. > 10) Rules say you cannot press against your own presses, does that > cover a Trap played by me? The card text of Trap grants the press to the combat, not to either of the combatants. You may press to end against a Trap that you played. > Or does the press from the Trap count as an environmental press? It counts as the combat having a press, not as either minion having a press. > 11) Camarilla Threats - do I pay 1 pool per card I discard in discard > phase or just 1 pool to gain that phase? You always have the phase. You pay 1 pool if you discard any number of cards in that phase. "Each Methuselah discarding a card during his or her discard phase burns one pool." > 12) Can you play two Freak Drives on the same minion after two > subsequent actions? Yes. You may only play one action modifier by name per each action. There is no limit to the number of action modifiers you may play by name per round or per turn. > Can you play a Freak drive as you go in torpor? Yes. You may only play action modifiers from torpor when you are the acting minion, and you are the acting minion when you play Freak Drive. > 13) Does Secure Haven prevent Kostantin from stealing equipment from a > minion? Yes. Secure Haven prevents actions against the minion, not against cards on the minion. > Is the minion considered to be the target for the action? No, the equipment is the target. > 14) Sleeping Mind - Can you play WWEF and then after combat, Cat's > Guidance? Yes. You may not untap during that action. The Cats' Guidance is played after the action is concluded. > 15) First Tradition: Masquerade - if I skip two turns and pay 2 pool > on the third round is the Masquerade then burnt? No. You have not satisfied the conditions of burning the card. Either skip 3 rounds, or pay pool 3 times to burn the card. See the clarified online card text: http://www.white- wolf.com/vtes/Cardlist_F.html#First_Tradition_The_Masquerade > (says effect is cumulative but I want ot eb sure this is what > was meant). If there is more than one in play, you have to pay for both. > 16) Nobody has actually thought of this in our playgroup until now, > but can you play two Skin of Rock to prevent 4 damage from a strike? Yes. > 17) Memories of Mortality - does Carrior Crows and the like (such as > Murder of Crows and Drawing out the Beast) do damage to the ally? Yes. > 18) Can same action mod be played if inf and sup provides totally > different effects? No. >(such as Telepathic Vote Coutning, rules says only > one action mod of the same type can be played) The rules don't mention type, they mention name. You may only play one action modifier of the same name per minion per action. > 19) Pentex Subversion - Who can block the action taken to burn it. > Only the controller? Only the minions of the Methuselah who played the card, Anneke, and anyone playing superior Eagle's Sight may block the remove action. > So if I play it on my prey and he tries to brun it, can > my grandprey not block it? He cannot, unless he uses Anneke or Eagle's Sight. > What if someone else but my prey tries to burn it? Only the minions of the Methuselah who played the card, Anneke, and anyone playing superior Eagle's Sight may block the remove action. Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com http://vekn_clans.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra

In article <93aauq$rl0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > In article <93a8fp$poi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > > 13) Does Secure Haven prevent Kostantin from stealing equipment > > from a minion? > > Yes. > Secure Haven prevents actions against the minion, not against > cards on the minion. Sorry, that should have been NO. Kostantin acts against the equipment, not the minion. [ quoted text not captured ]

Derek Ray

On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 17:19:57 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote: >1) Telepahtic Vote Counting vs Elder Kindred Network. Just to make >sure, you can use the inferior to cancel the vote and get rid of EKN as >EKN is played? You can cancel the referendum at any time during the referendum. So someone drops an EKN, you suddenly decide that it's a bad idea to be there, and cancel the referendum to try again next turn. And yes, the EKN and any other vote modifiers played are lost. >2) Charming Lobby - I think I read it before, but I need to refresh my >memory. The vote that auto-passes can be called by any player, it's >simply the *next* vote that is called that auto-passes, correct? *nod* >3) I saw a rule-change about GtU and that using the inf and sup counts >against the NRA rule, why was this done? And is it the same for all >types of cards (such as Enchant Kindred, Cat's Burglary, Distraction >etc) or only GtU? Is attacking a minion through Haven Uncovered and >then Bum's Rush also prohibited through NRA? You can't use the same card twice, period, so yes, it covers all types of cards. You CAN use a Bum's Rush and Haven Uncovered, because "enter combat" is not listed in the rulebook as one of the 'basic actions'. It was probably done because "repeat" means "repeat", and using the same card twice is repeating the card. Not to mention that the Ventrue could get very ugly if all they needed was 20 Govern, 10 Bonding, 10 Change of Target, 10 Freak Drive, and miscellaneous other cards. >4) Psyche! vs Illusions of the Kindred. If my opponent plays IotK and I >counter with Psyche! I get to restart the combat with the real vamp >right? What if I play Psyche! after combat ends with the illusionary right. it restarts combat after a "Combat ends" effect, so the illusory vamp just dissolves. >kindred? Does combat restart with the illusion, the original vamp or >simply nothing at all happens/impossible to do? (the latter is my guess >since the illusion is gone it would be as like playing Psyche! against >a vamp who just got burnt in combat). It would be "impossible to do", as there would be no vampire there to restart combat with. >5) Does Black Metamorphosis count against additional strikes? (my guess >is yes, since rules say you can only *gain* additional strieks once per >round). from the rules, as you note: "a vampire may only gain additional strikes from one source per round." >6) PB Madrid vs Bloodbath. Does the Bloodbathed vamp count as titled >for PB Madrid? Since there's a ruling on Bloodbath indicating that "if the vampire gets a title later, he loses his extra vote from Bloodbath", then I would say NO, the Bloodbathed vampire has no title. >7) Courier. Can you tap two Couriers on the same bleed to burn two >blood? Can you look at the top card through Courier #1 and then tap it No, because Couriers don't burn blood. >to burn it, and then use Courier #2 to look at the next card and then >tap it to burn that second card? I *believe* you can. LSJ answered that question somewhere on the newsgroup recently, and I can't remember where, so i'd wait for him. >8) What happens if you play Return to Innocence and then call a >Dramatic Upheaval. Who takes the loss of the RtI in my next untap? Nobody, because Return to Innocence is banned and is a stupid card besides. (yes, i know that's only in tournaments, but I really despise the card and see no reason to encourage ANYONE to play with it.) >9) Taste of Vitae vs agg dmg. A vamp has 2 blood and I strike for 2 agg >dmg sending it to torpor with one blood, then I play a ToV, do I gain >one or two blood? (my guess is two, since you inflicted two dmg). From card text on Taste of Vitae: "This vampire gains an amount of blood equal to the amount lost by the opposing vampire to damage during this round of combat." Two agg makes them lose one blood; you gain 1 blood from a Taste. >10) Rules say you cannot press against your own presses, does that >cover a Trap played by me? Or does the press from the Trap count as an >environmental press? Trap provides a press from the Trap itself, so you can press-to-end your way out of it; you aren't cancelling your OWN press anymore. >11) Camarilla Threats - do I pay 1 pool per card I discard in discard >phase or just 1 pool to gain that phase? 1 pool (only) after you actually discard one or more cards. >12) Can you play two Freak Drives on the same minion after two >subsequent actions? Can you play a Freak drive as you go in torpor? (my >guess is no and yes) Yes. The "no repeat modifier" clause only applies to one action modifier playable PER ACTION; each Freak Drive is played after (and modifies) a different action, so it is legal. Yes, you can Freak Drive in torpor. >13) Does Secure Haven prevent Kostantin from stealing equipment from a >minion? Is the minion considered to be the target for the action? Kostantin's text says "As a (D) action..." ...and Secure Haven forbids (D) actions. This seems simple. >14) Sleeping Mind - Can you play WWEF and then after combat, Cat's >Guidance? You can always play Wake to beat the effects of superior Sleeping Mind. As far as Cat's Guidance, I would say that "after the block" is also "after the action", and so you can Cat's Guidance. >15) First Tradition: Masquerade - if I skip two turns and pay 2 pool on >the third round is the Masquerade then burnt? (says effect is >cumulative but I want ot eb sure this is what was meant). No. From the online card text: Burn this card when you have either skipped 3 turns or paid 6 pool in cumulative penalties. So you can skip two turns, then pay 4 pool, and the First Tradition will stick around for one more turn, and then it will burn since you MUST complete one of the clauses on the card. >16) Nobody has actually thought of this in our playgroup until now, but >can you play two Skin of Rock to prevent 4 damage from a strike? Sure. >17) Memories of Mortality - does Carrior Crows and the like (such as >Murder of Crows and Drawing out the Beast) do damage to the ally? Yes, as these kinds of damage are not "inflicted by the vampire", and are instead a form of environmental damage. >18) Can same action mod be played if inf and sup provides totally >different effects? (such as Telepathic Vote Coutning, rules says only >one action mod of the same type can be played) No. Same as the "NRA" ruling above. Technically, +1 stealth and +2 stealth are different effects, so you could play Lost in Crowds at inferior AND superior if this were true. If you use TVC to cancel someone else's votes, you can't use TVC to bail out of the referendum. >19) Pentex Subversion - Who can block the action taken to burn it. Only >the controller? So if I play it on my prey and he tries to brun it, can >my grandprey not block it? What if someone else but my prey tries to >burn it? Master cards are controlled by the person who played them, so the (D) action to remove the card is directed at the person who played the Pentex in the first place. Anyone who tries to burn the card is taking a (D) action against you. -- Derek Goon-of-the-Month club member "In a MAN's game, you tap things that block." -- F. Scott, 2001

Derek Ray

(Correction) On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:37:43 -0500, Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: >On Sun, 07 Jan 2001 17:19:57 GMT, cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> >wrote: >>4) Psyche! vs Illusions of the Kindred. If my opponent plays IotK and I >>counter with Psyche! I get to restart the combat with the real vamp >>right? What if I play Psyche! after combat ends with the illusionary > >right. it restarts combat after a "Combat ends" effect, so the >illusory vamp just dissolves. From the rulings: There is no room to play Psyche (superior) between the time Illusions of Kindred ends combat and when the new combat begins. So, when you play Illusions of Kindred, Psyche cannot be played. [LSJ 19971003] Forgot to look... oops. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Lasombra is correct in all his answers except the following: The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote: > cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote: > > 13) Does Secure Haven prevent Kostantin from stealing equipment > > from a minion? > Yes. > Secure Haven prevents actions against the minion, not against > cards on the minion. As Lasombra already noted - he meant "no" above; the reasoning he gives below is correct. > > Is the minion considered to be the target for the action? > No, the equipment is the target. > > > 14) Sleeping Mind - Can you play WWEF and then after combat, Cat's > > Guidance? > > Yes. > You may not untap during that action. > The Cats' Guidance is played after the action is concluded. No. Both Action Modifiers and Reaction cards can only be played during actions. So the restriction against untapping will prevent the use of inferior Cat's Guidance (as well as preventing the acting minion from using Freak Drive). > > 17) Memories of Mortality - does Carrior Crows and the like (such as > > Murder of Crows and Drawing out the Beast) do damage to the ally? > > Yes. Correct enough, but note that Drawing Out the Beast has no effect on allies, Memories of Mortality or no. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

Derek is correct in all his answers except the following: Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote: > cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote: > >4) Psyche! vs Illusions of the Kindred. If my opponent plays IotK and > >I counter with Psyche! I get to restart the combat with the real vamp > >right? What if I play Psyche! after combat ends with the illusionary > > right. it restarts combat after a "Combat ends" effect, so the > illusory vamp just dissolves. No. The combat with the Illusionary vamp precludes the possibility of "squeezing in" a Psyche! after the initial combat: * There is no room to play Psyche (superior) between the time Illusions of Kindred ends combat and when the new combat begins. So, when you play Illusions of Kindred, Psyche cannot be played. [LSJ 03-OCT-1997] > >13) Does Secure Haven prevent Kostantin from stealing equipment > >from a minion? Is the minion considered to be the target for the > >action? > > Kostantin's text says "As a (D) action..." > ...and Secure Haven forbids (D) actions. This seems simple. Secure Haven only forbids (D) actions targeting the secured vampire. Other actions, including those that target cards on the secured vampire, are not prohibited. > >14) Sleeping Mind - Can you play WWEF and then after combat, Cat's > >Guidance? > > You can always play Wake to beat the effects of superior Sleeping > Mind. As far as Cat's Guidance, I would say that "after the block" is > also "after the action", and so you can Cat's Guidance. "After the action" would preclude playing Cat's Guidance - reaction cards must be played during an action. Cat's Guidance cannot untap a vampire during a Sleeping Mind modified action. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

jeroen rombouts

"The Lasombra" <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:93aauq$rl0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article <93a8fp$poi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, > cantila <rogc...@student.luth.se> wrote: <snip> > > > > 15) First Tradition: Masquerade - if I skip two turns and pay 2 pool > > on the third round is the Masquerade then burnt? > > No. > You have not satisfied the conditions of burning the card. > Either skip 3 rounds, or pay pool 3 times to burn the card. > See the clarified online card text: > > http://www.white- > wolf.com/vtes/Cardlist_F.html#First_Tradition_The_Masquerade wich reads: The First Tradition: The Masquerade [Jyhad, V:TES] Cardtype: Political Action Political Card-Worth 1 Vote. Called by any Prince or Justicar at +1 stealth. Successful <referendum> means each Methuselah must skip a turn or burn 2 pool. Burn this card when you have either skipped 3 turns or paid 6 pool in cumulative penalties. Question: the 'you' in the last sentence, to who does it refer to? Can only the Methuselah who played the card burn it or is this card burned by the firdt Methuselah to satisfy the conditions? (Probably a stupid question, but I'm puzzled) > > > > (says effect is cumulative but I want ot eb sure this is what > > was meant). > > If there is more than one in play, you have to pay for both. > > > Carpe Noctem. > > Lasombra > > http://lasombra.tripod.com > http://legbiter.tripod.com > http://vekn_clans.tripod.com > > > Sent via Deja.com > http://www.deja.com/ Jeroen

LSJ

"jeroen rombouts" <jeroen....@pandora.be> wrote: > pool. Burn this card when you have either skipped 3 turns or paid 6 > pool in cumulative penalties. > > Question: the 'you' in the last sentence, to who does it refer to? > Can only the Methuselah who played the card burn it or is this card > burned by the firdt Methuselah to satisfy the conditions? (Probably a > stupid question, but I'm puzzled) "you" always refers to the controller of the card. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

take...@my-deja.com

> > > > > 14) Sleeping Mind - Can you play WWEF and then after combat, Cat's > > > Guidance? > > > > Yes. > > You may not untap during that action. > > The Cats' Guidance is played after the action is concluded. > > No. Both Action Modifiers and Reaction cards can only be played > during actions. So the restriction against untapping will prevent > the use of inferior Cat's Guidance (as well as preventing the > acting minion from using Freak Drive). Why you cannot is Freak drive?? take [ quoted text not captured ]

Ivan Lerth

In article <93dl30$ile$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, take...@my-deja.com wrote: > No. Both Action Modifiers and Reaction cards can only be played > during actions. So the restriction against untapping will prevent > the use of inferior Cat's Guidance (as well as preventing the > acting minion from using Freak Drive). > > Why you cannot is Freak drive?? Freak Drive ------- Type(s): Action Modifier Card Text: Only usable immediately after this vampire performs an action that is not blocked. Untap this vampire. SUP: As above, but usable even if the action is blocked Sleeping Mind, The -------- Type(s): Action Modifier Card Text: Only usable when the acting vampire's action is announced. Choose a tapped vampire. The chosen vampire cannot attempt to block this action. SUP: Only usable when the acting vampire's action is announced. Minions cannot untap during this action, and tapped minions cannot block this action. Freak Drive works as an action modifier for the non-blocked action (at inferior, or any if at sup), and if that action was modified previously by Sleeping Mind at sup, minions (*any* minion, since the card text don't specify otherwise) still cannot untap. Ivan Lerth, [ quoted text not captured ]

gray...@my-deja.com

> > 19) Pentex Subversion - Who can block the action taken to burn it. > > Only the controller? > > Only the minions of the Methuselah who played the card, Anneke, and > anyone playing superior Eagle's Sight may block the remove action. > > > So if I play it on my prey and he tries to brun it, can > > my grandprey not block it? > > He cannot, unless he uses Anneke or Eagle's Sight. > > > What if someone else but my prey tries to burn it? > > Only the minions of the Methuselah who played the card, Anneke, and > anyone playing superior Eagle's Sight may block the remove action. In general, how do you know if a card's controller changes? Is it only when an effect has the words "steal" or "take control". If you play a card on another minion that has "may take a (D) action" is that action directed at the controller of the card? If I play a card that says "Any minion may burn this card as an action" and suchlike I gather that if the minion taking the action is not my predator or prey I cannont normally block it, even if I played the card. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

gray...@my-deja.com wrote: > In general, how do you know if a card's controller changes? Is it only > when an effect has the words "steal" or "take control". Or other indicative card text, yes. > If you play a card on another minion that has "may take a (D) action" > is that action directed at the controller of the card? If the action targets the card (to steal or burn or something), then it is directed at the controller of the card, yes. > If I play a card that says "Any minion may burn this card as an > action" and suchlike I gather that if the minion taking the action > is not my predator or prey I cannont normally block it, even if I > played the card. If you control the card, then you (and only you) can block the action to burn it, since such an action would be directed at you. [6.2.2.1] -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ [ quoted text not captured ]

Noal McDonald

> Sleeping Mind, The > -------- > Type(s): Action Modifier > Card Text: Only usable when the acting vampire's action is announced. > Choose a tapped vampire. The chosen vampire cannot attempt to block > this action. > SUP: Only usable when the acting vampire's action is announced. > Minions cannot untap during this action, and tapped minions cannot > block this action. > > Freak Drive works as an action modifier for the non-blocked action (at > inferior, or any if at sup), and if that action was modified > previously by Sleeping Mind at sup, minions (*any* minion, since the > card text don't specify otherwise) still cannot untap. *nods* Sleeping Mind is one of the cards that you'd have to be insane to use the superior of. Because it was ruled that WWEF and FA can be used to attempt to block (never mind that the vampires using those cards are still tapped, regardless of what the Wake says) the card is only useful when 2nd Tradition, Eternal Vigilance, Guard Dogs and Rats Warning are likely to be used by multiple vampires. Since WWEF and FA are much more common, I prefer the inferior text. It's like a Seduction for a tapped vampire and all the Wakes in the world won't help them block. If you're planning on using Freak Drive, the inferior text doesn't prevent it. Regards, Noal -- "I was probably pretty young, when I realised that I had come from what you might call a family, a clan, a race, maybe even a species, of pure sons of bitches." --Faulkner, "The Mansion" [ quoted text not captured ]

gray...@my-deja.com

In article <93f10g$i85$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > gray...@my-deja.com wrote: > > In general, how do you know if a card's controller changes? Is it only > > when an effect has the words "steal" or "take control". > > Or other indicative card text, yes. > > > If you play a card on another minion that has "may take a (D) action" > > is that action directed at the controller of the card? > > If the action targets the card (to steal or burn or something), then > it is directed at the controller of the card, yes. > > > If I play a card that says "Any minion may burn this card as an > > action" and suchlike I gather that if the minion taking the action > > is not my predator or prey I cannont normally block it, even if I > > played the card. > > If you control the card, then you (and only you) can block the action > to burn it, since such an action would be directed at you. [6.2.2.1] Going by that, if I play a card on another Methusela's minion and a 3rd Methusela takes an action to burn the card, only I can block it and not the Methusela whose minion it is on. [ quoted text not captured ]

The Lasombra

In article <93gih1$pd3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, gray...@my-deja.com wrote: > Going by that, if I play a card on another Methusela's minion and > a 3rd Methusela takes an action to burn the card, only I can block it > and not the Methusela whose minion it is on. If you still control the card, yes. If Methuselah #2 controls the card, only Methuselah #2's minions can block. In general, you control the master cards you play, even when you play them on some one else's minions. In general, the controller of the minion controls minion cards on that minion. To find the exceptions, look for words like "take control" or "gains control" or "controls". Carpe Noctem. Lasombra http://lasombra.tripod.com http://legbiter.tripod.com http://vekn_clans.tripod.com [ quoted text not captured ]