new POT card idea

humble idea inspired by a recent thread about how potence sucks. Havoc! Type: Action Requires: Potence Cost: 1 blood pot: (D) Your prey burns 2 pool. No action modifiers can be played during this action. POT: As above, but your prey burns 3 pool. flavour text: Property damage is not violence. John Zerzan picture: A demolished office room, scared clerk is watching some Brujah bully tearing a document folder this action couldn't be stealthed through, this is both for balance issues and for theme issues - straightforward vandalism can be hardly done in a discreet way :) ..so it will only help decks actively seeking combat. I realize this card could still be broken, for example Toreador with Hand of Conrad and Grand Ball, or Tupdogs.. but anyway, i like the idea of a new ousting mechanism, similar to Enticement. what do you think?

[ quoted text not captured ] Honestly, i think this card has no future. :-( The reason is that has nothing to do with the Potence discipline. The action card should be something like this: Cost: 1 blood pot: (D) Enter combat with a younger vampire. If that vampire goes to torpor or is burned, its controller burns 1 pool. POT: As above, but the controller burns 2 pool. As an interesting alternative, the card could be a combo action modifier/reaction card: Only usable when a vampire you control enters combat with an opposing vampire. Cost: 1 blood pot: If that vampire goes to torpor or is burned, its controller burns 1 pool. POT: As above, but the controller burns 2 pool. Just my 2 cents...

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon napsal: > On Jan 4, 1:47 pm, "Alias" <ransom.st...@seznam.cz> wrote: > > humble idea inspired by a recent thread about how potence sucks. > > > > Havoc! > > Type: Action > > Requires: Potence > > Cost: 1 blood > > pot: (D) Your prey burns 2 pool. No action modifiers can be played > > during this action. > > POT: As above, but your prey burns 3 pool. > > > > flavour text: Property damage is not violence. John Zerzan > > picture: A demolished office room, scared clerk is watching some Brujah > > bully tearing a document folder > > > > this action couldn't be stealthed through, this is both for balance > > issues and for theme issues - straightforward vandalism can be hardly > > done in a discreet way :) ..so it will only help decks actively seeking > > combat. > > > > I realize this card could still be broken, for example Toreador with > > Hand of Conrad and Grand Ball, or Tupdogs.. but anyway, i like the idea > > of a new ousting mechanism, similar to Enticement. what do you think? > > Honestly, i think this card has no future. :-( > The reason is that has nothing to do with the Potence discipline. why not? it's not too abstract concept, is it? The methuselahs pool represents his influence, connections and material property. You can attack those things with subtle manipulations, lobbying, seducing, sabotages, etc. Bleed disciplines like presence, dementation, dominate help to accomplish this. Or you can take a large hammer, break enter to his secret weapons workshop/drug laboratory/blood bank/whatever a methuselah could own.. And simply demolish everything what's inside. Thats what I imagine this card would do in "real world". (my poor english prevents me from making a more sophisticated example :)) The effect is the same as the subtle ways above, but you can't get away with that so easily - but that is represented by the "no modifiers" limit. Or if you mean that is has nothing to do with game mechanics of the Potence discipline - well, Protean didn't have stealth until Sonar, Obfuscate didn't have bleed reduction until Confusion of the Eye, Obtenebration didn't have bloodgain until Descent into Darkness..what a discipline can or cannot do is certainly not written in stone. Only the basic overall balance should remain, i.e. Auspex should have the best intercept forever, Dominate the best bleed forever, Obfuscate the best stealth etc. And this card doesn't endanger it. > > The action card should be something like this: > Cost: 1 blood > pot: (D) Enter combat with a younger vampire. If that vampire goes to > torpor or is burned, its controller burns 1 pool. > POT: As above, but the controller burns 2 pool. > > As an interesting alternative, the card could be a combo action > modifier/reaction card: > Only usable when a vampire you control enters combat with an opposing > vampire. > Cost: 1 blood > pot: If that vampire goes to torpor or is burned, its controller burns > 1 pool. > POT: As above, but the controller burns 2 pool. > > Just my 2 cents... cool, but perhaps too strong, much stronger than my variant IMO

"Alias" <ransom...@seznam.cz> wrote in news:1167923931....@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > Or if you mean that is has nothing to do with game mechanics of the > Potence discipline - well, Protean didn't have stealth until Sonar, > Obfuscate didn't have bleed reduction until Confusion of the Eye, > Obtenebration didn't have bloodgain until Descent into Darkness..what > a discipline can or cannot do is certainly not written in stone. Only > the basic overall balance should remain, i.e. Auspex should have the > best intercept forever, Dominate the best bleed forever, Obfuscate the > best stealth etc. And this card doesn't endanger it. > > Ick, you really think it doesn't? Regardless of in-stealth-ability, this is an action-based pool loss equivalent to GtU. Its an Enticement which doesn't require that you first obtain the Edge... Consider, too, the possiblitiy of unblockablility (Sunrise Service, Concoction of Vitality, Flaming Candle via Nos with obf) The card above does, in fact, out-pace most other disiplines at attacking pool totals. It is over-powered (for Potence). Also, two of your three cited examples reference Protean and Obt, which are already "toolbox" disciplines... They therefore have less validity in justifying that its OK for other disciplines get more "out of scope" effects. DZ AW

[ quoted text not captured ] What do you think of a potence clone of heart in the city? One blood for one permanent strength, two blood for two permanent strength? That would be a nice permanent for potence, reducing the amount of cards you'd have to use to make it effective.

[ quoted text not captured ] Boy, I'm tired. A clone of heart in the city would be 2 blood either way for one strength at inferior and two strength at superior.

I always wanted one that was Protection Money Type: Action Requires: Potence Cost: 2 blood +1 stealth action pot: (D) Enter combat with a ready minion controlled by your prey and put this card on that minion. This acting vampire may enter combat with the minion with this card as a +1 stealth (D) action. During any combat between the acting vampire and targetted minion, your prey may pay you 1 pool before range is determined to untap the acting minion and cancel the combat. POT: As above, but your prey pays you 2 pool. You may bash my idea now... =/ [ quoted text not captured ]

"Nosferatu_3" <bowl...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1167929660....@6g2000cwy.googlegroups.com: > Boy, I'm tired. A clone of heart in the city would be 2 blood either > way for one strength at inferior and two strength at superior. > > Re: "Fist of the City" That's definitely more in keeping with what I'd expect Potence to be good at. I'd at least playtest the card, if'n I were the Man in Charge. DZ AW

Alias wrote: > humble idea inspired by a recent thread about how potence sucks. > I think Pot needs a maneuver. Where Do You Think You're Going? Combat. Grapple. [pot] Press. [POT] Maneuver.

librarian wrote: > I think Pot needs a maneuver. Thrown Gate

LSJ kirjoitti: > librarian wrote: > > I think Pot needs a maneuver. > > Thrown Gate I think he meant that potence needs a maneuver without a built in strike.

On 4 Jan 2007 11:00:56 -0800, "librarian" <ino...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] I think the Maneuver should be "Maneuver, only useable to go to close.". It'd fit in more with the thematic, and be restrictive enough (less versatility) to not weaken Pot/Cel combat, but be more than useful for those clans without access to Cel. Morgan Vening

[ quoted text not captured ] Or, perhaps more interestingly: Strongarm Tactics Combat. Grapple. [pot] Press. [POT] [REFLEX] Cancel a maneuver played by the opposing minion. A use for Reflex cards outside Abombwe! (Alternatively, that could read [POT]: Maneuver, only usable if the opposing minion has used a maneuver this round. But I liked the possibility of seeing more Reflex cards. The Reflex could be trouble, though, as it's unclear to me whether it'd cancel, say, a Thrown Gate entirely, or just the maneuver part...) - D.J.

kula...@gmail.com wrote: > I always wanted one that was > > Protection Money > Type: Action > Requires: Potence > Cost: 2 blood > +1 stealth action > pot: (D) Enter combat with a ready minion controlled by your prey and > put this card on that minion. This acting vampire may enter combat with > the minion with this card as a +1 stealth (D) action. During any > combat between the acting vampire and targetted minion, your prey may > pay you 1 pool before range is determined to untap the acting minion > and cancel the combat. > POT: As above, but your prey pays you 2 pool. I like it. Reminds me of when Succubus Club was used for extortion. "Give me 3 pool or your minion gets rushed"

Bulling the Weak. Combat Cost: 1 blood Usable only in combat with a younger vampire or ally. Only usable before range is chosen. [pot] This vampire has +1 strength for the remainder of combat, with an optional press [POT] As above, with an optional maneuver. Flying Tackle Combat. Grapple [pot] Maneuver, only usable to maneuver close. [POT] Strike: make a hand or melee weapon strike at +1 damage, with an optional maneuver. [ quoted text not captured ]

Potence already has a manuever, its called Fake Out. kula...@gmail.com kirjoitti: [ quoted text not captured ]

Don't be silly... I can think of 3 Generic manuevers. 2 that goes to long, and 1 that you can't replace till after combat. Why isn't there a generic manuever to move close? In a combat deck, card flow in combat is very important. [ quoted text not captured ]

Alias skrev: > humble idea inspired by a recent thread about how potence sucks. > > Havoc! > Type: Action > Requires: Potence > Cost: 1 blood > pot: (D) Your prey burns 2 pool. No action modifiers can be played > during this action. > POT: As above, but your prey burns 3 pool. I see no real problems with this card, at least not as first glance. It´s no more non-Potence-ish then Rampage. Maybe a bit too strong, as it cannot be bounced.

atomweaver napsal: > "Alias" <ransom...@seznam.cz> wrote in > news:1167923931....@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > > > Or if you mean that is has nothing to do with game mechanics of the > > Potence discipline - well, Protean didn't have stealth until Sonar, > > Obfuscate didn't have bleed reduction until Confusion of the Eye, > > Obtenebration didn't have bloodgain until Descent into Darkness..what > > a discipline can or cannot do is certainly not written in stone. Only > > the basic overall balance should remain, i.e. Auspex should have the > > best intercept forever, Dominate the best bleed forever, Obfuscate the > > best stealth etc. And this card doesn't endanger it. > > > > > > Ick, you really think it doesn't? Regardless of in-stealth-ability, this is > an action-based pool loss equivalent to GtU. Its an Enticement which doesn't GtU can be modified by a bleed modifier. or a stealth modifier. > require that you first obtain the Edge... Consider, too, the possiblitiy of how many Enticements do you see passing without added stealth? > unblockablility (Sunrise Service, Concoction of Vitality, Flaming Candle via > Nos with obf) The card above does, in fact, out-pace most other disiplines hardly a base for a game breaking combo. you are looking for two actions, costing you trip to torpor+blood/blood+pool/2 blood to inflict 2-3 pool damage.. I would rather Computer Hack twice. i would be more afraid of that Anson with Hand of Conrad and Grand Ball, but that's just because Anson is broken anyway :) > at attacking pool totals. It is over-powered (for Potence). > > Also, two of your three cited examples reference Protean and Obt, which are > already "toolbox" disciplines... They therefore have less validity in > justifying that its OK for other disciplines get more "out of scope" effects. > > DZ > AW I see it basically as a rush card with an added bonus (enter combat with me or lose pool), which is I think completely "inside" the theme of Potence

kula...@gmail.com wrote: > Why isn't there a generic > manuever to move close? Because it would be a shitty card: See Open Grate. Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

"Alias" <ransom...@seznam.cz> wrote in news:1167991001.7...@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: > > atomweaver napsal: >> "Alias" <ransom...@seznam.cz> wrote in >> news:1167923931....@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >> >> > Or if you mean that is has nothing to do with game mechanics of the >> > Potence discipline - well, Protean didn't have stealth until Sonar, >> > Obfuscate didn't have bleed reduction until Confusion of the Eye, >> > Obtenebration didn't have bloodgain until Descent into >> > Darkness..what a discipline can or cannot do is certainly not >> > written in stone. Only the basic overall balance should remain, >> > i.e. Auspex should have the best intercept forever, Dominate the >> > best bleed forever, Obfuscate the best stealth etc. And this card >> > doesn't endanger it. >> > >> > >> >> Ick, you really think it doesn't? Regardless of in-stealth-ability, >> this is an action-based pool loss equivalent to GtU. Its an >> Enticement which doesn't > > GtU can be modified by a bleed modifier. or a stealth modifier. > A non-sequitur. The proposed card would give potence a card with pool loss potential equivalent to that of the most effective cards in the game (GtU, KRC, etc). The potential for three pool loss in a single action is big, in and of itself... Thats all I'm trying to say here. That kind of effect doesn't need to be paired up with the most deadly combat capabilities in the game. The combination of the two just makes a pairing almost as bad as "mondo-bleed plus bleed bounce" in Dominate. The game doesn't need any more of those mono-discipline pairings... > I see it basically as a rush card with an added bonus (enter combat > with me or lose pool), which is I think completely "inside" the theme > of Potence > Then write it as such. Your Money, or Your Life? 1 blood Potence Action Modifier pot: After combat ends, the minion opposing this minion in combat takes an additional point of damage. POT: During combat, if a minion uses a strike: combat ends or strike: dodge, the controller of that minion loses one pool. You get to the fight with a Rush card (blocked or not, YMoYL effect is in place). If they wuss out in the resulting combat, there is an additional consequence. I tried to phrase this as an "During X do Y", to limit it to one pool loss per combat, but I think I might have nerfed the phrasology a bit. DaveZ Atom Weaver

librarian schrieb: [ quoted text not captured ] I don´t think Pot needs any maneuvers. It´s one of the weaknesses of Pot that it has problems with heavy maneuvers and this weakness keeps it balanced in combat, it´s allready one of the two best combat disciplines. Celerity is stronger when set-up with guns, but it needs combos/actions to get those guns and they cost pool. There are ways to get around the lacking maneuvers, Earthshock and Sewer Lids have good mileage or you just go ahead and team it with Ani, Cailean or something else. But that usually means sacrificing the weenie aspect of the deck which is a good thing, because a weenie deck should be very limited in its options. -- johannes walch

Protection Racket Master Put this card in play. Any vampire you control with Potence may take a (D) action to steal one pool from your prey and add a counter to Protection Racket. No action modifiers may be played during this action. You may use a Master Phase Action to move all counters from Protection Racket into your own pool. This card may be burned by any minion as a (D) action. Action can't be stealthed, card needs to be protected [by threats] but I think it fits the Potence theme quite well. It's basically a bleed, with some extra sweetener if you protect the card from being burned.

nood...@iprimus.com.au wrote: > Protection Racket > Master > Put this card in play. Any vampire you control with Potence may take a > (D) action to steal one pool from your prey and add a counter to > Protection Racket. No action modifiers may be played during this > action. You may use a Master Phase Action to move all counters from > Protection Racket into your own pool. This card may be burned by any > minion as a (D) action. > > Action can't be stealthed, ... Nosferatu with Labyrinth. And others of course. If you do not want it stealthed look for different text like: This action is a zero stealth action and stealth cannot be added during the action. However that still leaves -1 intercept reactions and fortitude reactions like day operation to make it unblockable. hmmmm. -John P.