Lords of the Night Spoilers on ebay

For thos with a dire need for spoilers: Search ebay for "vtes lords". You will find auctions with pictures for most of the cards. The scans are good, you will be able to read the texts. Kind regards, Marcus

Wow ! Nice stuff there. I'll just speak ot the cards I didn't see spoiled yet. I won't spoil the texts, just make comments and indicate the name, you're all free to go there and see by yourself !! ;-) - AK47 (already saw the spoiler but waited to B sure to talk about it) : well, it's a variant, but I prefer Assault Rifle in all the Cel decks : an additional will cause 4 more, so if the first strike is dodged it's 2 more, if it's not it's 4 more, with a Blur it's a sheer difference of 6... The only case where it's (marginally) better is in decks without the possiblity to do additionals and if you're afraid of dodges or prevent. - Bestow Vigor : Fortitude available to other vamps, ok... Wait, Fortitude available to ALLIES ?!?! For 2 turns !!! Harbinger Shamblings, here I come !!! - Black Throne is just EX-CELLENT for Assamites ! Just the kind of cards they needed. - Charigger is ok - Command the Legions : very nice, thanks to the superior effect ; of course you'll need to add stealth so it's not good in plain tap'n'bleed decks - Condemn the Sins of the Father : another Quietus useless piece of cardboard, great ! :-( - Conceal : toolbox warning included - Community Justice : mega-cornercase - Chair of Hades : more Imbued Hate !! :grin: At superior, it's also necro weenie-hate. Could be good to include 1-3 in a deck with strong recursive possibilities (Burn, Weenies, BUUUUUUUUUUUUURN !!!) - Eyes of Blades : there must be a few interesting uses with it, but the cases where it's better than a S:CE or a "real" strike will be few. - Fantasy World : a little expensive compared to the much better Sensory ; only really useful if you also need to pass a vote or a bleed you're afraid might be redirected. - Hard Case : and now an Obedience in For too ?! :O Ok, it requires blocking and costs a blood. Still... - Kumpania : not what I'd put in my usual Ravnos decks, but it's a nice addition for those who want to block (and fight !) - Lesser Boon : well, it's exactly what was announced : lesser ! lol So you have to be a blocker blocking a blocker ? Mmm... Not my cup blood. - Malajit whatever : nice indian cabby. And is he gets caught they take his license back ? eh. - Mirror's Visage : NIIIIIIIIIIIICE !! Especially at superior of course, but the inferior can come in handy sometimes (I'd put it only in decks where most can play it at sup though). But of course, the Chi stealth is still very costly, you'll need either the Path, this new equipment or Gabrin to play most of the cards !! - Mokole Blood : nice. FoS Tha > Magic of the Smith, anyone ? - Narrow Minds : WOW ! And of course that's a Rare... :-( - Powerbase Savannaj : nice illu ! Other than that, the requirement (tap another loc) + the "may steal" part don't make it likely to be in any of my decks (if I prepare myself to block, I usually have ways to resist - if not desire - combat) - Powerbase Zurich : Niiiiiiice ! Okay, midcap bleeders also have a cardless way to bloat now... And it's not like there's any chance it'll get stolen if you're sure to pass at least a bleed per turn. - Preternatural Strength : permanent Torn is nothing to scorn about !! Might even add a little Bruise to decks where you normally don't : now the Pot of the Giovanni or Lasombra might show up a little more (put, like, 4 in a deck...), that NICE !! Thanks for that card guys, you just de-cornercased a whole in-clan discipline for at least 2 clans !!! Ignazio or Baldesar striking for 4 all the time, and still the deck can be stealth-oriented... YEEEAH !!! - Resume the coil : bof... Another cornecase Nec card. - Retain the Quick Blood (didn't comment it yet) : not too bad, Assamites need blood. - Soul Feasting : How many marginally useful cards does Necro still need ? No, seriously... - Swiss Cut : Ah, the Swiss School is under Giovanni Gontrol !! BO) At last a card representing accurately the Giovanni investments. I like it, and there's certainly something to be done in conjonction with Alan Sovereign... Or Parthenon if you don't want to rely on corrupted Ventrue ! ;-) - Therbold Realty : nice for some decks (yes, including Slaughterhouses, as I've read somewhere)... - Tye Cooper : we now know that he's in perfect synergy with Charriger. - Kpist m/45 : ok, now there's no way this is better than the .44 in any way that would justify the +1 pool !! If AK-47 costs as much as Assault Rifle, this should cost 2, and I would still prefer .44 in most cases (see above). - Target Vitals : so it's not the bollocks. ;-) Still, nice. And you know what ? Shamblings can play it too... (+2, and no counter-pressing my Trap...). - Undying Tenacity : not bad if you have access to the superior. - Talith : dispensable. Ok, I'm done, now I'll go see the new Giovanni !! :-) -- "All Hail the Lords of the Night !" Orpheus

On 25 syys, 16:51, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: ... > - AK47 (already saw the spoiler but waited to B sure to talk about it) : > well, it's a variant, but I prefer Assault Rifle in all the Cel decks : an > additional will cause 4 more, so if the first strike is dodged it's 2 more, > if it's not it's 4 more, with a Blur it's a sheer difference of 6... Assault Rifle + Blur: 4+4+4=12 damage. AK 47+Blur: 2+2+2+2=8 damage, a difference of 4, not 6 damage? > only case where it's (marginally) better is in decks without the possiblity > to do additionals and if you're afraid of dodges or prevent. The additional strike from AK47 (and Kpist) should work well with ammo cards.

Wait, I just saw SPELL OF LIFE !!! Setite weenies + Mummies, here we go !! Lucky for us there are all those anti-allies cards now... Oh, and Luna Giovanni is great but why is she so UGLY, she ain't no Nosferatu !! Err, one thing... There is no Laibach Treaty on the checklist, so WTF ?!

>> - AK47 (already saw the spoiler but waited to B sure to talk about it) : >> well, it's a variant, but I prefer Assault Rifle in all the Cel decks : >> an >> additional will cause 4 more, so if the first strike is dodged it's 2 >> more, >> if it's not it's 4 more, with a Blur it's a sheer difference of 6... > > Assault Rifle + Blur: 4+4+4=12 damage. AK 47+Blur: 2+2+2+2=8 damage, a > difference of 4, not 6 damage? Yes, you're right, sorry. Did this too fast. Anyway, you got my meaning. >> only case where it's (marginally) better is in decks without the >> possiblity >> to do additionals and if you're afraid of dodges or prevent. > > The additional strike from AK47 (and Kpist) should work well with ammo > cards. Better than Assault (or .44) would ? And it's not like munitions have been deemed worth using in most Cel Guns decks... [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sep 25, 4:09 pm, unihiut...@gmail.com wrote: > On 25 syys, 16:51, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > ... > > > - AK47 (already saw the spoiler but waited to B sure to talk about it) : > > well, it's a variant, but I prefer Assault Rifle in all the Cel decks : an > > additional will cause 4 more, so if the first strike is dodged it's 2 more, > > if it's not it's 4 more, with a Blur it's a sheer difference of 6... > > Assault Rifle + Blur: 4+4+4=12 damage. AK 47+Blur: 2+2+2+2=8 damage, a > difference of 4, not 6 damage? > ... Note that AK47 and Kpist m/45 do not have the clause, "the additional strike does not count against the additional strike limit". Here the spoiler was wrong. Looks like a playtester spilled the beans... IMHO these two guns only make sense for decks without cel or additional strikes. Then the AK47 is better than an Assault Rifle for obvious reasons. Kine regards, Marcus

> Note that AK47 and Kpist m/45 do not have the clause, "the additional > strike does not count against the additional strike limit". Here the > spoiler was wrong. Looks like a playtester spilled the beans... Which makes the Kpist even worse. > IMHO these two guns only make sense for decks without cel or > additional strikes. Then the AK47 is better than an Assault Rifle for > obvious reasons. Yes, but Kpist is bad most of the time (if only because of the additional, uh, cost) ! [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sep 25, 5:42 pm, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > Yes, but Kpist is bad most of the time (if only because of the additional, > uh, cost) ! Yeah, doesn't seem very hot. Gun decks tend to have celerity, making this totally useless for them, and as for decks that use guns as combat defense / basic combat package... well, dunno. Sure, 1+1 damage is usually better than 2 in one strike, but it's still pretty borderline; paying 1 extra pool for that seems iffy. On the other hand, maybe a deck with lots of Manstopper Rounds (+ Magazine) could use this. Being able to do 2+2 damage, potentially on a permanent basis, starts to be good. Also, it kills pesky popular allies like Mylan and Carlton. Hmmm. Will have to wait and see. Generally, I'm really liking this set based on what I've read so far. Tons of cool cards that are screaming "build a deck around me!" :). Good job, design team. //Petri

> > Generally, I'm really liking this set based on what I've read so far. > Tons of cool cards that are screaming "build a deck around me!" :). > Good job, design team. > > //Petri agreed. this set impresses me as an overall effort to concentrate the game on Vampires and their Eternal Struggle again. not allies, not equipment and locations, not events, and perhaps most importantly, not time-outs (though we will have to wait and see what develops in the metagame.) it gives much-needed boosts to assamites, anti-weenie tech, and trophy decks. i tend to agree that Set gained like a banditdeity, but the chemical-testing hole in the roof of my mouth tells me that's a good thing.... ssssss.... (near-spoiler) i also saw a new deck type in Precision, with Revelations or Owls. or it could be a sidelight for someone like stanislava. but this card could cause problems. how Precise must the user be? is leaving a "the" off the card's name a failure? i would assume so... anyway, it looks like a lot of fun. glad the print run was good. can't wait for them to arrive. - sporemage37 1/37 = 3cubed/10cubed + 3cubed/100cubed + 3cubed/1000cubed + ... 3x37 = 111 3x37x7x13 = 10101 many simple patterns on a standard 9-digit number-pad divide evenly by 37. the fear of 666 is just a by-product of the coolness of 37.

On 25 Sep, 15:54, Petri Wessman <or...@orava.org> wrote: > Yeah, doesn't seem very hot. Gun decks tend to have celerity, making > this totally useless for them, and as for decks that use guns as > combat defense / basic combat package... well, dunno. Sure, 1+1 damage > is usually better than 2 in one strike, but it's still pretty > borderline; paying 1 extra pool for that seems iffy. > > On the other hand, maybe a deck with lots of Manstopper Rounds (+ > Magazine) could use this. Being able to do 2+2 damage, potentially on > a permanent basis, starts to be good. Also, it kills pesky popular > allies like Mylan and Carlton. > > Hmmm. Will have to wait and see. In addition to a Mylan & Carlton killer, the Kpist is also ideal for killing retainers. Bye bye birdies! Not to mention it can be brutal with Imbued. Shoot with Kpist and Strike with Conviction, use the additional strike to shoot again and use another Strike with Conviction. Nice being able to do 4 damage in a single round! On a different note, does anyone else absolutely LOVE the art for Street Cred? Die, War Ghoul, die!

On Sep 25, 5:32 pm, "echiang...@yahoo.com" <echiang...@yahoo.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Add in Manstopper rounds. Maybe an aim card on each strike. You can probably do a ton of damage with that kind of tech. > On a different note, does anyone else absolutely LOVE the art for > Street Cred? Die, War Ghoul, die! Gimme some knuckle. witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] I've zipped all the Ebay images and uploaded them here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8HCM20KG . Looks like a good set, but a lot of power creep. Assies got better quietus stuff, but I didn't see anything in quietus to help make their combat top tier. Cheers, Dai

[ quoted text not captured ] > witness1- Piilota siteerattu teksti - > > - Näytä siteerattu teksti - You don't think kpist is useless anymore after Smudge aims your vitals twice with manstopper rounds with it. :) Thats 8 damage in a round from a 1 cap with no discplines and 3 combat cards so qualifies for short chain combat.

On Sep 26, 1:33 am, Dai <kakitada...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I've zipped all the Ebay images and uploaded them here: > > http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8HCM20KG. > > Looks like a good set, but a lot of power creep. Assies got better > quietus stuff, but I didn't see anything in quietus to help make their > combat top tier. > > Cheers, > > Dai Now that's a great idea. Thanks a lot! Kine regards, Marcus

More cards seen (mostly Family...) : - Shroud of Night : what do you think ? Another way to cycle for Giovanni isn't bad, is it ? Only usable on Nec or Gio actions doesn't make it too strong... - False Resonance : expensive, and I'd prefer other Chi stealth cards in most cases, but OTOH counter a +2 Intercept or a Misdirection is nothing to scorn at... This being said, this set seems to confirm that the Path of Paradox (or that new equipment) is a must-play in Ravnos decks. - Diego Giovanni : All the in-clan for 8, a nice special, that's already worth playing him. Of course if you find a way to use Ani or if you want a Dom / Chi crypt (or even for just a few handy Sensories in your Gio deck...) go ahead !! So many things in one nicely priced package can't be bad. - Francis Milliner : no Dom makes him an intruder in the clan, fat chances I'll play him anytime soon. - Gianmaria Giovanni : isn't that a boy's name ? Anyway, I've been hoping a long time for a possible mix between Lasombra (or Kyasid) and Giovanni, it might not be the most optimized available tech but it's at least possible now, so I'm glad ! :-) Too bad Ian Forrestal isn't there to see that... - Guillaume Giovanni : one more ObteGio. Nice specials. And CEL might hurt, if he gets friends to play with... - Kay Polerno : strange... More Pro is nice, without Pot it might not be as effective, but... Has to be tried out. At least it looks life Pro and Obt are the new Gio out-of-clans ! - Paolo Sardenzo : Nice special, thematic weakness, and two nice out-of-clans. Inf Dom makes him a less-than-average choice for bleed decks, but for the rest he's quite nice. - Luna : the head of the Necrobters. A strange special for one with just 1 vote, maybe they thought it would have been too strong to give her 2 ?! Anyway there must be a few things to try out with her... Now, why in hell did they make her so ugly ?!? - Primo Giovanni : as much as I dislike Meyer's work pre LotN or on Francis Milliner, I gotta say that one's great ! Other than that, Primo is a standard family 4-Cap. - Stephen Milliner : strange mix of disciplines, maybe to play with some Ishtarri ? Or in a Nec/Pre vote deck. - Will-o'-the-Wisp : enormous ! The Ravnos don't even need Obfuscate for their bleeding hordes (with a small "h")... - Gramle : lol the name ! As for the effect, in disciplineless this is plain monstruous !! Ok, I think I'm done now. And this makes me want to : a) make and keep 4-5 different Giovanni decks (possible to vary more now, thanks DT for that !!) b) update the Necrosite, although some vampires are so particular in their specials / discipline spreads that I might want a few months before rating / commenting them... [ quoted text not captured ]

> I've zipped all the Ebay images and uploaded them here: > > http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8HCM20KG . Thanks for that. > Looks like a good set, but a lot of power creep. What do you mean, that they are good or not ? > Assies got better > quietus stuff, but I didn't see anything in quietus to help make their > combat top tier. Among combat of course ? Well, looks like the best stuff they got in this set isn't Quietus (either Cel or clan), and the best new Qui cards ain't combat, so you'll have to make do with it (and not be top tier whatever). [ quoted text not captured ]

On Sep 25, 10:17 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > Wait, I just sawSPELLOFLIFE!!! Setite weenies + Mummies, here we go !! > Lucky for us there are all those anti-allies cards now... This card is horribly overpowered, even with only being able to play one per turn. Team it up with Mesu Bedshet to move your crypt into your inactive region and once the Spell goes off, you have 5 minions that go into play all at once and who can immediately act. Even with the new anti-ally, they are going to be harder to kill off because they have life equal to the capacity of the vamp. Unless you just happen to have, say, Autonomic Mastery in hand, once the mummies hit the table, there is very likely going to be a few vamps going to be taking a dirt nap. Either that or an easy bleed of 5 *right away*. A 5 minion swing is huge. And the fact that they can immediately act once put in play is, IMO, a real problem. Sorrow

On Sep 27, 4:20 pm, Christoph <christoph.bo...@gmail.com> wrote: > This card is horribly overpowered, ... > A 5 minion swing is huge. And the fact that they can immediately act > once put in play is, IMO, a real problem. > > Sorrow Well, on the other hand you can see it coming from miles away, it's not like those 5 minions come out of nowhere without warning. I don't see this as all that different from the various "breeder" decks out there, just with a slightly different focus and mechanic. In other words, I'm not too worried. Cool card. //Petri

[ quoted text not captured ] If you want to see broken, look at the draft text. You only need 2 spells of life. Matt Morgan demonstrated how bad it could be at the NAC in a release event draft. -John P.

On Sep 27, 8:20 am, Christoph <christoph.bo...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sep 25, 10:17 am, "Orpheus" <orpheus...@free.fr> wrote: > > > Wait, I just sawSPELLOFLIFE!!! Setite weenies + Mummies, here we go !! > > Lucky for us there are all those anti-allies cards now... > > This card is horribly overpowered, even with only being able to play > one per turn. Team it up with Mesu Bedshet to move your crypt into > your inactive region and once the Spell goes off, you have 5 minions > that go into play all at once and who can immediately act. Even with > the new anti-ally, they are going to be harder to kill off because > they have life equal to the capacity of the vamp. Unless you just > happen to have, say, Autonomic Mastery in hand, once the mummies hit > the table, there is very likely going to be a few vamps going to be > taking a dirt nap. Either that or an easy bleed of 5 *right away*. > A weenie with inferior dominate can bleed for 5 on the second turn of the game. At earliest this will happen on turn 6. > A 5 minion swing is huge. And the fact that they can immediately act > once put in play is, IMO, a real problem. > You have to carefully construct your crypt (the mummies are unique) so that you can actually get 5 into play. You have to put way more than 5 Spell of Life in your deck so that you always have one to play each turn and you need to make sure your Spell of Life isn't blocked. Its pretty crazy in draft, I don't think it will be in constructed. Later, ~Rehlow

> > A 5 minion swing is huge. And the fact that they can immediately act > > once put in play is, IMO, a real problem. > You have to carefully construct your crypt (the mummies are unique) so > that you can actually get 5 into play. You have to put way more than 5 > Spell of Life in your deck so that you always have one to play each > turn and you need to make sure your Spell of Lifeisn't blocked. Umm, obfuscate? It's one of the FoS inclans, you know. > Its pretty crazy in draft, I don't think it will be in constructed. You can go ahead and say that now. I challenge you to build a deck around it to see if it performs as you expect it to (ie, not crazy). Sorrow

[ quoted text not captured ] Rather than Rehlow trying to prove a negative, why don't you build the deck that will be crazy? The mummies can use no discipline so their combat is pretty much no maneuver, hands for two. Ideally you want 5+ very large seties so that your deck is not hamstrung by no setites in the opening hand. This will cause you crypt issues as if all you are doing is getting Spells of life your defense and offense will suffer. To do more than just get spells of life you need smaller vampires -> smaller mummies. It will be good, but not game breaking. And just think about the table hate that 3-4 spells of life on the table will bring. No secrets and a gun will kill mummies dead, as will countless other tech. -John P.

On Sep 27, 3:39 pm, "John P." <jtpat...@mts.net> wrote: > No secrets and a gun will kill mummies dead, as will countless > other tech. ? No Secrets doesn't work on allies. And setites have obf, so using it to block the Spell of Life action isn't always going to work out either. witness1

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:22:25 -0000, Christoph <christo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > A 5 minion swing is huge. And the fact that they can immediately act >> > once put in play is, IMO, a real problem. >> You have to carefully construct your crypt (the mummies are unique) so >> that you can actually get 5 into play. You have to put way more than 5 >> Spell of Life in your deck so that you always have one to play each >> turn and you need to make sure your Spell of Lifeisn't blocked. > > Umm, obfuscate? It's one of the FoS inclans, you know. Obfuscate is good. But it's not like Obfuscate = all actions auto-succeed. Far from it! >> Its pretty crazy in draft, I don't think it will be in constructed. > > You can go ahead and say that now. I challenge you to build a deck > around it to see if it performs as you expect it to (ie, not crazy). Though this remark wasn't directed at me, I'm pretty sure that the testing would be more meaningful the other way around - e.g. if you think the card is broken, and overpowered, you could demonstrate that by constructing a deck that illustrates this. I'm unconvinced that this card would be overpowered. In fact, I don't think that building a deck around it is worth it. Spending a whole lot of delivery mechanism and deck tech on getting 5 mummies in play - not sure it's that much stronger than playing, say, Waters of Duat. It's definitely cool, and worth a shot, because it's completely different than other Followers decks, but for competitive play I'd stick to bleeding, tempting or corrupting. -- Regards, Daneel

[ quoted text not captured ] Okay, I don't play No Secrets enough. My bad. I was looking at it to block the mummies 0 stealth actions. Blocking the Setites -> Acknowledged to be difficult Killing the mummies -> Not terribly difficult for a combat deck or a deck with guns. I really do not think a deck built around mummies doing anything other than combat/trap will be all that effective, and I think that the mummies will prove to be fragile unless you manage what Matt pulled off in the LoN/KMW draft: a crypt full of 9/10 caps, and enough spells of Life to do it twice. (=4 in draft). Its interesting to note that although Matt got the Spell off in both draft games they did not help him on the second table, where he was ganged up on and ousted IIRC. In a constructed game where its tougher to protect the Setites I think the Spell of Life will be helpful but not overpowering. John P.

[ quoted text not captured ] I am mostly seeing Spell of life in Conjunction With Naktorheb as the main vamp, each turn spelling and mesuing. Or spelling and Water of duating. Once the mummies come into play, make them rush enough, and hard enough that they die pretty fast. Maybe using aim/trap/wws with them could be useful. Its when they burn that i think you can abuse it, by eternal masking the aforementioned waters into nice, big, juicy 10 caps....

killing 10 life is not so easy - it is very card intensive best way to make it work 3xNakhthorheb 2xHalim Bey 1xBelle Equitone 1xReverend Djoser Jones 5xSetite fatties and lots of 4 pool - move 5 pool on 9+cap setite and minion taps(with splash khobar towers tech) or simply all fatties and Halim Bey

On Sep 28, 6:27 am, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I am mostly seeing Spell of life in Conjunction With Naktorheb as the > main vamp, each turn spelling and mesuing. Or spelling and Water of > duating. Once the mummies come into play, make them rush enough, and > hard enough that they die pretty fast. Maybe using aim/trap/wws with > them could be useful. Its when they burn that i think you can abuse > it, by eternal masking the aforementioned waters into nice, big, juicy > 10 caps I was thinking of Naktorheb spelling and Bedshet-ing at the start. When the mummies come into play, Naktorheb starts to do Dream world superior, untap and then the mummies (who are now at + 1 bleed) start bleeding with Naktorheb using Veil the Legions superior. We could also do Cave of Apples and have the mummies start giving out corruption tokens?

Sorry for the post so fast after my previous, but I got thinking, Does the blood on the uncontrolled vamps go to the bank, your pool or to Golconda when you Spell of Life? I assume the Bank... Jeffrey Sheriff of Singapore... (I think..)

JJeff wrote: > Sorry for the post so fast after my previous, but I got thinking, > > Does the blood on the uncontrolled vamps go to the bank, your pool or > to Golconda when you Spell of Life? I assume the Bank... Correct. Same as with merging. Contrast card text on Chain of Command.

Salem wrote: > Rehlow wrote: > >> You have to carefully construct your crypt (the mummies are unique) so >> that you can actually get 5 into play. > > Yeah they're unique. But how does one define which other one's they'd > contest? By name. > Does a mummy made with Dedefra contest an _actual_ vampire copy of Dedefra? Yes.

[ quoted text not captured ] What happens when you make mummys(-ies?) out of Aabbts? I think, their special/text of "not unique" do not apply, and so Mummy Aabbts contests each other, but not the Vampire Aabbts. I hope I'm wrong. (That they are all non-unique.)

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. http://presence.vekn.org/viewtopic.php?p=15808#15808

LSJ wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] > http://presence.vekn.org/viewtopic.php?p=15808#15808- Too bad :) Thanks!

On Sep 27, 5:27 pm, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > I am mostly seeing Spell of life in Conjunction With Naktorheb as the > main vamp, each turn spelling and mesuing. Or spelling and Water of > duating. Once the mummies come into play, make them rush enough, and > hard enough that they die pretty fast. Maybe using aim/trap/wws with > them could be useful. Its when they burn that i think you can abuse > it, by eternal masking the aforementioned waters into nice, big, juicy > 10 caps... I remember the gist of Eternal mask, anybody have the actual card text handy? That could be pretty sweet. -John P.

[ quoted text not captured ] Ouch. from Eternal Mask: "Move a unique vampire from any ash heap" You do have to get SER on the Waters but that is pretty nice. Even nicer I think you can Khobar Towers the Eternal Mask vampire. Thats just Nasty. Spell of Life 5 10-caps. Get them killed. 2 Waters Eternal mask the 10 caps 1 per turn you gain 10 pool as the 10 caps go poof? I feel sick. Other than stealth, serpentis skill cards for the waters, this looks really vomit-inducing. I'm begining to think a table without combat decks will blow up quickly. John P.

The other alternative is of course Nefertiti, many Aabt, and skill cards. The aabt Mesu bedshet, then Nefertiti Chain of Commands all the weenies into play to bleed, gaining fairly large pool in the process (the bleed is actually immaterial) and then use waters for even more Aabts...

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm not sure how this gains you pool. Could you explain? witness1

[ quoted text not captured ] Me neither. Brain fart.... Kaymakli nightmares might be good if your crypt is large enough...

> Ouch. > from Eternal Mask: "Move a unique vampire from any ash heap" > You do have to get SER on the Waters but that is pretty nice. > > Even nicer I think you can Khobar Towers the Eternal Mask > vampire. Thats just Nasty. > Spell of Life > 5 10-caps. Get them killed. > 2 Waters Eternal mask the 10 caps > 1 per turn you gain 10 pool as the 10 caps go poof? > > I feel sick. Other than stealth, serpentis skill > cards for the waters, this looks really vomit-inducing. > > I'm begining to think a table without combat decks > will blow up quickly. > > John P. How does the burn effect of Eternal Mask work with Khobar Towers? If you burn the 10 cap with the Towers, can you still burn the card off the vamp who played it if the vamp you brought into play is no longer burnable as well? Here is the relevant card text from The Eternal Mask: "You may burn this card and the chosen vampire during any untap phase." Is the burning of the vampire you brought into play with The Eternal Mask required to burn the card off the vamp who played it?

On Sep 28, 12:35 pm, Rhavas <Anthony.Lun...@gmail.com> wrote: > "You may burn this card and the chosen vampire during any untap > phase." > > Is the burning of the vampire you brought into play with The Eternal > Mask required to burn the card off the vamp who played it?- Hide quoted text - The wording suggests you can just burn the Eternal Mask as it a) is still on your vampire and b) it says burn this card and chosen vamp (worded as an effect) rather than burn the chosen vampire to burn the eternal mask (worded as a cost). But hey, IANLSJ John P.

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:Zz4Li.1771$P21....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net... [ quoted text not captured ] So I'm confused? Why does Ally(Mummy) Dedefra contest with Vampire Dedefra? They are Not the same card by a long shot. Raille

On Sep 28, 12:54 pm, "Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote: > "LSJ" <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message [ quoted text not captured ] Unique contests by card name, not what they are. So Dedefra the mummy contests with all other cards named Dedefra. This was confirmed during the week of Nightmares. John P.

John P. wrote: > On Sep 28, 12:54 pm, "Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Why does Ally(Mummy) Dedefra contest with Vampire Dedefra? >> They are Not the same card by a long shot. > > Unique contests by card name, not what they are. ... and they are the same card, too. At least, as much as vampire Dedefra and a second copy of vampire Dedefra would be the same card (for the normal contesting case). Which is slightly more "the same card" than Lucita and Lucita advanced are to each other, for example.

Rhavas wrote: > How does the burn effect of Eternal Mask work with Khobar Towers? If > you burn the 10 cap with the Towers, can you still burn the card off > the vamp who played it if the vamp you brought into play is no longer > burnable as well? No. > Here is the relevant card text from The Eternal Mask: > > "You may burn this card and the chosen vampire during any untap > phase." > > Is the burning of the vampire you brought into play with The Eternal > Mask required to burn the card off the vamp who played it? Yes, by the targeting rule. If the target isn't there, you cannot use the effect. The violation of this general rule by the current ruling for Bauble is what puts the Bauble ruling on the list for RT review: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2d9b67dd8962822c

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes. Use Cleansing Ritual. Two Undirected Actions to gain 10 pool is pretty sweet. -- - Gregory Stuart Pettigrew

[ quoted text not captured ] > the Bauble ruling on the list for RT review:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2d9b... I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, but I'm more than okay with it. The bauble rule is still valid though? (Barring newer RT decisions) The gun stays in play after the bauble is burned while the vampire with the gun is banished? So (back to the eternal mask) you can burn the Eternal Masked 10 capacity vampire but it will leave your small vampire forever unable to act, react, etc? And if say an embrace with SERP Eternally Masks as Queen Anne and Queen Anne is burned in combat, the embrace is affected by the Eternal Mask for the remainder of the game as Queen Anne cannot be burned a second time? John P.

John P. wrote: > On Sep 28, 2:00 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: >> Rhavas wrote: >>> How does the burn effect of Eternal Mask work with Khobar Towers? If >>> you burn the 10 cap with the Towers, can you still burn the card off >>> the vamp who played it if the vamp you brought into play is no longer >>> burnable as well? >> No. >> >>> Here is the relevant card text from The Eternal Mask: >>> "You may burn this card and the chosen vampire during any untap >>> phase." >>> Is the burning of the vampire you brought into play with The Eternal >>> Mask required to burn the card off the vamp who played it? >> Yes, by the targeting rule. If the target isn't there, you cannot use the effect. >> >> The violation of this general rule by the current ruling for Bauble is what puts >> the Bauble ruling on the list for RT review:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2d9b... > > I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, > but I'm more than okay with it. Reasoning: You cannot invoke the effect to burn the chosen vampire if the chosen vampire is not in play (i.e., is not a legal target). > The bauble rule is still valid though? (Barring newer RT > decisions) The gun stays in play after the bauble is burned while the > vampire with the gun is banished? Yes, but the RT ruling is more for "can I burn the Bauble after the gun is destroyed with Shattering Blow?" Current answer is yes. If the Bauble ruling is overturned and made to follow the general ruling, then the answer would be no. > So (back to the eternal mask) you can burn the > Eternal Masked 10 capacity vampire but it > will leave your small vampire forever unable to > act, react, etc? Yes, as long as the Eternal Mask stays on him. > And if say an embrace with SERP Eternally Masks as Queen Anne > and Queen Anne is burned in combat, the embrace is affected > by the Eternal Mask for the remainder of the game as Queen > Anne cannot be burned a second time? Correct, unless the Eternal Mask is removed by some other means.

On Sep 28, 3:37 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > John P. wrote: > > So (back to the eternal mask) you can burn the > > Eternal Masked 10 capacity vampire but it > > will leave your small vampire forever unable to > > act, react, etc? > > Yes, as long as the Eternal Mask stays on him. Time to get Callirus a Book Of Going Forth By Night! :-) - D.J.

[ quoted text not captured ] Combos nicely with Goodnight, Sweet Prince. [ quoted text not captured ]

Blooded Sand <sand...@gmail.com> wrote: > I am mostly seeing Spell of life in Conjunction With Naktorheb as the > main vamp, each turn spelling and mesuing. Or spelling and Water of > duating. Once the mummies come into play, make them rush enough, and > hard enough that they die pretty fast. Maybe using aim/trap/wws with > them could be useful. Its when they burn that i think you can abuse > it, by eternal masking the aforementioned waters into nice, big, juicy > 10 caps.... ...or you could just bleed at stealth, and win. ;) Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

> >> Why does Ally(Mummy) Dedefra contest with Vampire Dedefra? > >> They are Not the same card by a long shot. > > > Unique contests by card name, not what they are. > > ... and they are the same card, too. > > At least, as much as vampire Dedefra and a second copy of vampire Dedefra would > be the same card (for the normal contesting case). Which is slightly more "the > same card" than Lucita and Lucita advanced are to each other, for example. So is this ruling the same with Absimillard's Army? If I put an Ivory Bow into play as a ghoul, and someone already has an Ivory Bow, do they contest? They both have the name "Ivory Bow", just that one is now a ghoul, the other a weapon. Seems a bit odd if that were the case. --> J grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com

[ quoted text not captured ] Except Absimiliard's Army isn't explicitly putting the cards into play as Unique Ghouls. They're just Ghouls. -- salem (replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)

[ quoted text not captured ] > Correct. But if, for example, Absimilard's Army turns a Blood Doll into a Ghoul, can I burn that Blood Doll with Vessel?

[ quoted text not captured ] No. It's not a Blood Doll. It's just a ghoul. The name doesn't stick (it isn't unique, so the name doesn't show through). If you like, you can turn the card upside down to represent the ghoul to reinforce this idea.