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Firs't i like to apologize for me, arguing about Torn Sign Post and Melee Weapons. thoose who is offended by my action's in theese or other subject's please give me a Mail for personal apologizes. Ok, sometime ago I putted up a message "All My question's at once", this is a follow up, with more questions. (Last time I bringed my question's to public I reicived many answer's that said Differen't things... And I was fried in my city for bringing "to much rule changes at once".) FIRST PART: 1. First, the rules about Hand-Melee strikes. The JYHAD rulebook say this about melee weapon's: ¯¯¯¯¯ "You may only use hand damage modifiers on melee-type weapons (such as knives, clubs, etc.)." "+N Hand Damage: Adds to a minion's hand or melee weapon damage" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The V:Tes rulebook say this about melee weapon's: ¯¯¯¯¯ Basic Rules: "+N Hand damage: Add N points of damage to a minion's hand or melee weapon damage" Advanced Rules: ..."decides what his strike will be: an assault with an equipment card, An attack or combat manouver with a strike card, or a blow with his bare hand's." "Hand Damage Modifiers: Hand Damage modifiers may be added to the damage a minion causes with melee weapons (such as daggers, swords, or stakes). Hand damage modifier's may not be added to ranged weapons (such as firearm's or bow's)" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The rulegroup say this about melee weapon's ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ Strikes with melee weapon's are not hand strikes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now, finally... What is right or what is wrong. Both rule Book declare that I can use "HAND DAMAGE MODIFIER'S" to melee weapons. What's about the following (I wan't real answer's to theese) If I use Torn Signpost and bang Nakh: (Torn Signpost changes my HAND DAMAGE) Is my damage 5 or 3 If I Use Bastard Sword with Crusher: (Crusher have +1 HAND DAMAGE) Is my damage 2 or 3? If I use Scorpion Sting With Femur Of Tomler: (Scorpion Sting do not declare "Melee weapon", only hand damage) Is my damage 2 or 3 aggrevated? If I use Wolf Claws, is my Bang Nakh damage aggrevated? (Wolf Claws is an HAND DAMAGE MODIFIER and Bang Nakh is an MELEE WEAPON) If I use Immortal Grapple and Sengir Dagger, Is my damage aggrevated? (With immortal Grapple I can only use Hand Damage strikes, Sengir Dagger is an melle weapon changing my hand strikes into aggrevated). If I use a Kali's Fang and an Khabar Honor: (Khabar Honor just changes Hand Damage, kali's Fang is used as a strike) Is my damage 2 or 5? If I use a kali's Fang and an Lucky Blow: (Lucky Blow declare "use your MELEE WEAPON or Hand's at +1 damage", and Kali's Fang is still used as a strike), Is my damage 2 or 3? If I with Zack North AND Bang Nakh Bum's Rush someone with Uncontrollable Rage: (Uncontrollable Rage Inferior +1 aggrevated hand damage, Bang Nakh is melee weapon with +2 hand damage) Is my damage 5 aggrevated, or do I choose 3 aggrevated damage/4 normal damage? Werewolf Pack is attacked by KoKo with bastard Sword. KoKo strike with undead Strength and add his damage on bastard sword (werewolf Pack is not affected by melee weapon strikes) is the damage then: 1 damage : since undead strength was used to the melee weapon? 2 damage : Since he added his hand OR melee weapon damage with 1? My question's is following up in next message...

Staffans specific questions were: "If I use Torn Signpost and bang Nakh: (Torn Signpost changes my HAND DAMAGE) Is my damage 5 or 3" 5 if vamp has Superior Pot. "If I Use Bastard Sword with Crusher: (Crusher have +1 HAND DAMAGE) Is my damage 2 or 3?" 3 (1 hand damage, +1 hand damage, +1 from sword) "If I use Scorpion Sting With Femur Of Tomler: (Scorpion Sting do not declare "Melee weapon", only hand damage) Is my damage 2 or 3 aggrevated?" 2, as Scorpion Sting may not be used with melee weapons. "If I use Wolf Claws, is my Bang Nakh damage aggrevated? (Wolf Claws is an HAND DAMAGE MODIFIER and Bang Nakh is an MELEE WEAPON)" No, as Bang Nakh is not a hand strike or hand damage. It is a weapon strike that does weapon damage. "If I use Immortal Grapple and Sengir Dagger, Is my damage aggrevated? (With immortal Grapple I can only use Hand Damage strikes, Sengir Dagger is an melle weapon changing my hand strikes into aggrevated)." You may not use Sengir Dagger while Immortally Grappled. Sengir Dagger is a melee weapon strike, not a hand strike. "If I use a Kali's Fang and an Khabar Honor: (Khabar Honor just changes Hand Damage, kali's Fang is used as a strike) Is my damage 2 or 5?" Don't know. I don't remember what Khabar says. :-( "If I use a kali's Fang and an Lucky Blow: (Lucky Blow declare "use your MELEE WEAPON or Hand's at +1 damage", and Kali's Fang is still used as a strike), Is my damage 2 or 3?" 3, as Lucky Blow adds to hand or melee weapon strikes. "If I with Zack North AND Bang Nakh Bum's Rush someone with Uncontrollable Rage: (Uncontrollable Rage Inferior +1 aggrevated hand damage, Bang Nakh is melee weapon with +2 hand damage) Is my damage 5 aggrevated, or do I choose 3 aggrevated damage/4 normal damage?" Zack may not do agravated damage with the Bang Nakh, so I would say either 4 regular with the Bang Nakh or 3 aggro with his hands. "Werewolf Pack is attacked by KoKo with bastard Sword. KoKo strike with undead Strength and add his damage on bastard sword (werewolf Pack is not affected by melee weapon strikes) is the damage then: 1 damage : since undead strength was used to the melee weapon? 2 damage : Since he added his hand OR melee weapon damage with 1?" 0, as KoKo is making a melee weapon strike, and Werewolf Pack is immune to melee weapons. KoKo should use his hand instead. Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "Now, maybe there will be some peace and quiet in this place." -Yojimbo

Staffan wrote: "If I use Torn Signpost and bang Nakh: (Torn Signpost changes my HAND DAMAGE) Is my damage 5 or 3" Here is the long theory of melee weapons: Melee weapons do damage that is based on a vampires hand damage, but are not a hand strike. For instance, a Bastard Sword does +1 hand damage. If you choose to use the Bastard Sword for your strike, then it will do damage equal to the vampires hand damage +1, but again, this is a weapon strike, not a hand strike. Here are examples of various vampires using a Bastard Sword: -Zack North (+1 hand damage) will hit for 3 points (1 hand+1 hand+1 Sword). -KoKo using Torn Signpost will hit for 3 points (2 hand +1 sword). -Hector Sosa (Sup POT) using Torn Signpost and Undead Strength and the Bastard Sword will hit for 6 points (3 hand+2 US+1 Sword). -Hector Sosa using Fists of Death and a Bang Nakh will hit for 5 points (1 hand+2 FoD+2 Bang Nakh). As Torn Signpost increases a vampires hand damage, it also increases the amount of damage that vampire does with melee weapons. Fists of Death does the same thing. Undead Strength, as it specifically says that it can be "used with hand or melee strikes" also increases melee weapon strikes. A vampire with superior POT could play Torn Signpost, Fists of Death, and use Undead Strength to strike with a Bang Nakh and hit for 9 damage. Strike cards that do not say "useable with melee weapons" MAY NOT be used with melee weapons. You cannot use Scorpion Sting to augment a melee weapon, as you need to pick one strike, not two. Undead Strength works because the card says it will. Striking with a weapon is the vampires one allowed strike per strike phase. A vampire may not use 2 strikes at once. Undead Strength, Growing Fury, and Lucky Blow are exeptions to this, as they say they are. Claws of the Dead will not work with melee weapon strikes, as Claws of the Dead only makes hand strikes agrivated, not weapon damage. If you strike with a Bastard Sword and then try to use Claws of the Dead, you will do 2 non agrivated damage, as you are using a weapon strike, not a hand strike. Now keep in mind that any strike that uses a weapon is not a hand strike, but is a weapon strike. Thus, no weapons may be used while Immortally Grappled, as a weapon strike is not a hand strike. Regardless of what kind of damage the weapon does, it cannot be used while Immortally Grappled, as it is a weapon. If you are Immortally Grappled, you may not use a Bastard Sword or Brass Knuckles or the Sengir Dagger, as they are weapons. No weapons. The Sengir Dagger, for instance, makes a vampires hand damage agrivated, but it is still a weapon strike, as it uses a weapon (the Sengir Dagger), thus you may not use a Sengir Dagger while Immortally Grappled. Hope this helps. [ quoted text not captured ]

staffan....@mailbox.swipnet.se (staffan.bengtsson) writes: >So now, finally... What is right or what is wrong. Both rule Book declare >that I can use "HAND DAMAGE MODIFIER'S" to melee weapons. Hand damage modifiers change your basic hand damage. Melee weapons generally do damage based on your basic hand damage. Thus, changing basic hand damage (amount) will change the amount of damage done by the melee weapon. However, some modifiers (notably Claws) modify the nature of damage done by a hand strike, *not* the basic hand damage of a vampire. This change will *not* carry over to a melee weapon. >What's about the following (I wan't real answer's to theese) >If I use Torn Signpost and bang Nakh: (Torn Signpost changes my HAND DAMAGE) >Is my damage 5 or 3 (assume superior): 5 >If I Use Bastard Sword with Crusher: (Crusher have +1 HAND DAMAGE) >Is my damage 2 or 3? 3 >If I use Scorpion Sting With Femur Of Tomler: (Scorpion Sting do not declare >"Melee weapon", only hand damage) >Is my damage 2 or 3 aggrevated? You cannot use a non-melee weapon strike (Scorpion Strike) with a melee weapon. So, you can't play Scorpion Strike (and you do 2 agg). Strike cards can modify a melee weapon strike only if they say so (like Undead Strength). >If I use Wolf Claws, is my Bang Nakh damage aggrevated? (Wolf Claws is an >HAND DAMAGE MODIFIER and Bang Nakh is an MELEE WEAPON) No. >If I use Immortal Grapple and Sengir Dagger, Is my damage aggrevated? >(With immortal Grapple I can only use Hand Damage strikes, Sengir Dagger >is an melle weapon changing my hand strikes into aggrevated). You cannot use Sengir Dagger, since it is not a hand strike. So "no". >If I use a Kali's Fang and an Khabar Honor: (Khabar Honor just changes Hand >Damage, kali's Fang is used as a strike) >Is my damage 2 or 5? 2, since you cannot use a strike card to modify a melee weapon strike unless the strike card says so. >If I use a kali's Fang and an Lucky Blow: (Lucky Blow declare "use your >MELEE WEAPON or Hand's at +1 damage", and Kali's Fang is still used as a strike), >Is my damage 2 or 3? 3 (aggravated) >If I with Zack North AND Bang Nakh Bum's Rush someone with Uncontrollable Rage: >(Uncontrollable Rage Inferior +1 aggrevated hand damage, Bang Nakh is melee >weapon with +2 hand damage) >Is my damage 5 aggrevated, or do I choose 3 aggrevated damage/4 normal damage? Zack: +1 Bang: melee strike at +2 Rage: +1 agg. (This is debatable - wait for the Rules Team before proclaiming anything:) The melee strike does damage based on the amount (not nature) of the basic hand strike's damage. So, Zack could wield the Bang Nakh for 5 (non-agg), or use hands for 3 agg. >Werewolf Pack is attacked by KoKo with bastard Sword. KoKo strike with undead >Strength and add his damage on bastard sword (werewolf Pack is not affected by >melee weapon strikes) is the damage then: >1 damage : since undead strength was used to the melee weapon? >2 damage : Since he added his hand OR melee weapon damage with 1? 2, but the Pack is unaffected by it (so it may as well been 10 or 0, there's simply no effect). Koko is better off not using the Sword and just striking hands (for 2, using undead strength). -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Eschew http://www.math.sc.edu/cgi-bin/sjohnson/home | Obfuscation Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |