cancelled/repeat actions

I looked at the DCI no-repeat-actions rule, and I cannot determine if a "cancelled" action (Delaying Tactics, Change of Target) is considered to have been taken for the purposes of the DCI rule. Can a minion that called Kine Resources Contested and had that vote cancelled by Delaying Tactics then go ahead and call Disputed Territory instead? Depends on the definition of cancelled... --- Eric Pettersen pett "at" cgl "dot" ucsf "dot" edu (NeXTmail capable)

Eric Pettersen wrote: > > I looked at the DCI no-repeat-actions rule, and I cannot determine if a > "cancelled" action (Delaying Tactics, Change of Target) is considered to > have been taken for the purposes of the DCI rule. Can a minion that called > Kine Resources Contested and had that vote cancelled by Delaying Tactics > then go ahead and call Disputed Territory instead? > > Depends on the definition of cancelled... No. Canceling an action doesn't make it so that the action never happened. [RTR 30-JUN-1997] The No Repeat Actions rule marks the acting vampire as unable to take the same type of action again this turn. That mark is applied when the action resolves (blocked or not). Canceling the action *card* that would have been used to take an action (via Direct Intervention) won't prevent the would-be acting vampire from attempting the same action again. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

In article <8p3tpl$d83f$1...@cgl.ucsf.edu>, pe...@address.is.in.sig (Eric Pettersen) wrote: > I looked at the DCI no-repeat-actions rule, and I cannot determine if a > "cancelled" action (Delaying Tactics, Change of Target) is considered to > have been taken for the purposes of the DCI rule. Can a minion that called > Kine Resources Contested and had that vote cancelled by Delaying Tactics > then go ahead and call Disputed Territory instead? > > Depends on the definition of cancelled... This has come up before... "Delaying Tactics Type: Reaction Card Text: Any vampire. Only usable during a political action. The political action is cancelled. Untap the acting vampire. The controller of the acting minion takes the political card if any back into his or her hand, and his or her minions cannot take the same political action this turn." You can call a different vote as per card text on Delaying Tactics, so you can call a Domain Challenge if you tryed to call a Kine Resources Contested. Furthermore, you could call a Praxis Seizure: Monaco if you tried to call a Praxis Seizure: Berlin, as long as it is not the same _type_ of vote - different Praxis Seizures and Crusades count as different types of vote. "Change of Target Type: Action Modifier Card Text: Only usable when this action minion is blocked. Untap the acting and blocking minions and cancel the current action and combat. If you do a second action with this minion this turn, it cannot be the same action." With Change of Target, the card text prevents you doing the same action again. However, the No Repeat Action tenet means that this is also applicable for any other second action - Freak Drives, Rutors Hand, anyone who has been untapped by (say for example) Alexandra (Toreador Inner Circle member and her special), etc. Bleeding - You cannot bleed again. This also applies to different bleed cards - e.g If you tried to Social Charm someone, you cannot attempt to bleed again, even with a Legal Manipulations because it is a bleeding action. Voting - Much the same as the rulings for Delaying Tactics when voting (not the same vote). Action cards - By the card. e.g. You can play Bums Rush, then Change of Target / Freak Drive, and then play Ambush (if the vampire is tapped). However, you cannot play 2 consecutive Bums Rushes or 2 Ambushes. Hunting - No repeat. Recruiting / Equipping - This I am not sure about. I suspect if you cannot attempt to call retainers or allies if you have done it once. Any ideas LSJ / Coupe / Others? Best regards David Hammond UGPOW Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Oops! Looks like I'm well off target, and the person who told me this is too. DH [ quoted text not captured ]

hamd...@my-deja.com wrote: > Recruiting / Equipping - This I am not sure about. I suspect if you > cannot attempt to call retainers or allies if you have done it once. > Any ideas LSJ / Coupe / Others? The defined "action types" are the ones defined in the rulebook: bleed, hunt, equip, employ retainer, recruit ally, political action, leave torpor, rescue a vampire from torpor, and diablerize a vampire in torpor. [VEKN 6.4.1] So you cannot attempt to "employ" a retainer if you have taken the "employ retainer" action already. Likewise, you cannot attempt to "recruit" an ally if you have taken the"recruit ally" action already. [ quoted text not captured ]

What effect does Change of Target have on Force of Will? I play Force of Will. I am blocked. I play Change of Target. ?: 1.) I untap as per Change of Target and untap the blocking minion. Since the action was cancelled, I do not take damage from Force of Will. 2.) I do not untap but untap the blocking minion. Since the action was cancelled, I do not take damage from Force of Will. 3.) I untap as per Change of Target and untap the blocking minion. Even though the action was cancelled, I take damage from Force of Will because it had to be blocked to allow me to play Change of Target. 4.) I do not untap but untap the blocking minion. Even though the action was cancelled, I take damage from Force of Will because it had to be blocked to allow me to play Change of Target. 5.) I set fire to the table as per the Voices.

Mike Ooi wrote: > What effect does Change of Target have on Force of Will? > I play Force of Will. I am blocked. I play Change of Target. > > 3.) I untap as per Change of Target and untap the blocking minion. Even > though the action was cancelled, I take damage from Force of Will because it > had to be blocked to allow me to play Change of Target. Close enough. You untap per Change of Target. You take damage from Force of Will because that damage is not a part of the action's resolution. Likewise for an action with Daring the Dawn that gets blocked by an ally and subsequently canceled by a Change of Target. On a similar note, if you call a vote and use Daring the Dawn or Day Operation, but the vote is hit with Delaying Tactics or inferior Telepathic Vote Counting: you still suffer aggravated damage or get sent to torpor by the Dare/Day. [ quoted text not captured ]

On Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:52:38 -0700, "Mike Ooi" <sh...@texas.net> wrote: >What effect does Change of Target have on Force of Will? > >I play Force of Will. I am blocked. I play Change of Target. > >5.) I set fire to the table as per the Voices. This satisfies both card text on Change of Target (untap acting vampire), and on Force of Will (table takes one point of unpreventable aggravated damage after this action is complete). I like it. -- Derek Jack-Booted Thug of Atlanta

In article <39B7C79C...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > Mike Ooi wrote: > > What effect does Change of Target have on Force of Will? > > I play Force of Will. I am blocked. I play Change of Target. > > > > 3.) I untap as per Change of Target and untap the blocking minion. Even > > though the action was cancelled, I take damage from Force of Will because it > > had to be blocked to allow me to play Change of Target. > > Close enough. You untap per Change of Target. You take damage from Force of > Will because that damage is not a part of the action's resolution. > > Likewise for an action with Daring the Dawn that gets blocked by an ally > and subsequently canceled by a Change of Target. > > On a similar note, if you call a vote and use Daring the Dawn or Day Operation, > but the vote is hit with Delaying Tactics or inferior Telepathic Vote Counting: > you still suffer aggravated damage or get sent to torpor by the Dare/Day. > what happens if i day op a force of will? do i burn blood to prevent destruction because the day op has already sent me to torpor? [ quoted text not captured ]

theve...@my-deja.com wrote: > what happens if i day op a force of will? do i burn blood to prevent > destruction because the day op has already sent me to torpor? Both events ("go to torpor" and "take 2/1 agg damage") are to occur in the same time frame ("after the action"), so you can order them however you like. If you choose to resolve the "go to torpor" effect first, then you'll have to burn blood for each point of agg damage done by the other effect in order to prevent destruction. If you choose to resolve the agg damage first, then the "go to torpor" effect won't do anything - you'll already be in torpor. [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <8p9j36$9dq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, theve...@my-deja.com writes >what happens if i day op a force of will? do i burn blood to prevent >destruction because the day op has already sent me to torpor? A vampire in torpor is considered wounded. So, yes, since Day Op has put you in torpor, Force of Will will deal you aggravated damage which must be dealt with by burning a blood to prevent destruction. -- James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D | ja...@zephyr.org.uk (New e-mail) "Who'd have ever predicted the moment would come when I find myself grateful they've kept women dumb? She's an innocent maiden but then so am I, that's why it's possible I could get by."

LSJ wrote: " If you choose to resolve the agg damage first, then the "go to torpor" effect won't do anything - you'll already be in torpor." It sounds a bit unfair !! so you can have an unblockable bleed for free ! Fortitude wasn't strong enough... Damn those gangrels ! reyda

[ quoted text not captured ] Oh no! The Gangrel are going to bleed me for 3 and make it unblockable! Whatever shall I do? Drat! I must play a Deflection and watch as my predator's vampire goes to torpor while bleeding my prey. Or I must take the bleed for 3 and intercept the Rapid Healing action to forestall any further stunts like this. Then again, there's always plain old diablerie - especially if my grand-predator has some votes, since I bet he'll support his prey's vamps getting eaten. Day Op: ONLY good when you're sure someone is going to try to block you, and ONLY good if you're going to oust someone if it goes through. -- Derek "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - C. Darwin, 1871

Bleed bounce, deflection, redirection, i know all that... I was just joking, ya know =) I just looked at the cards and... Gangrel may be nice guys fighting for nature's sake, healing wounded birds or swimming amongst gentle wolves, smelling red roses... Maybe i'll even try to build my own gangrel deck... That could happen someday... reyda gangrel ally (?)