The many masks of Dragos version 2 - rules question

Dragos has Chimerstry and the Infernal Familiar, and gets into combat. He plays Illusions of the Kindred and draws another Dragos. After combat, can he now use an untap [It would have to be Rutor's hand, i think], and then play a fast reaction or hidden lurker to enter combat with whoever his alter ego has just been fighting? I guess the question boils down to, is the Illusionary kindred actually the same minion as Dragos or not? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

In article <81baj4$pfr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > Dragos has Chimerstry and the Infernal Familiar, and gets into combat. He > plays Illusions of the Kindred and draws another Dragos. After combat, > can he now use an untap [It would have to be Rutor's hand, i think], and > then play a fast reaction or hidden lurker to enter combat with This does not work in either case. Illusions of the Kindred doesn't change anything, the acting minion is still the acting minion and the blocking minion is still the blocking minion. Hidden Lurker explicitly requires a minion which is not the acting minion, and Fast Reaction specifically requires a minion which is not the blocking minion. Nice try though. Stu -Your Friendly Neighborhood Camarilla Scholar. -Relavant Card Text Hidden Lurker Cardtype: {Action Modifier} Discipline: Obfuscate {Usable only by an untapped vampire other than the acting minion after the acting minion is blocked and combat is over. Tap this vampire. This vampire now enters combat with the blocking minion. The firs round of combat, the blocking minion cannot use any strikes. (S) As above, but with an optional press.} Fast Reaction Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Auspex Only usable after a blocking minion you control other than this vampire has just completed combat. Tap this vampire. This vampire now enters combat with the <acting> minion. The first round of this new combat, the <acting> minion cannot use any strikes. (S) As above, with an optional press. [ quoted text not captured ]

legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > Dragos has Chimerstry and the Infernal Familiar, and gets into combat. He > plays Illusions of the Kindred and draws another Dragos. After combat, > can he now use an untap [It would have to be Rutor's hand, i think], and > then play a fast reaction or hidden lurker to enter combat with whoever > his alter ego has just been fighting? I guess the question boils down > to, is the Illusionary kindred actually the same minion as Dragos or not? The illusionary vampire is not the acting vampire, so Fast Reaction cannot be used. Fast Reaction Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Auspex Only usable after a blocking minion you control other than this vampire has just completed combat. Tap this vampire. This vampire now enters combat with the <acting> minion. The first round of this new combat, the <acting> minion cannot use any strikes. (S) As above, with an optional press. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

LSJ wrote: > > legb...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > Dragos has Chimerstry and the Infernal Familiar, and gets into combat. He > > plays Illusions of the Kindred and draws another Dragos. After combat, > > can he now use an untap [It would have to be Rutor's hand, i think], and > > then play a fast reaction or hidden lurker to enter combat with whoever > > his alter ego has just been fighting? I guess the question boils down > > to, is the Illusionary kindred actually the same minion as Dragos or not? > > The illusionary vampire is not the acting vampire, so Fast Reaction cannot > be used. Sorry, the Rutor's Hand threw me off track. Rutor's Hand can only untap Dragos duing his controller's minion phase, so can't be used here (unless he was blocking a Malkavian acting on Dragos's controller's turn via Madness Network). The illusionary vampire is also not the blocking vampire, so Fast Reaction can not be used. [ quoted text not captured ]

Question 1: Society of Leopold: if the vamp it's played upon has 0 blood and the effect of the Society kicks in, what happens? Is he burned automatically or does he has the option to burn 1 blood (and fail to do so, of course) resulting in no effect? Question 2: Are Sabbat Vampires considered "Non-Camarilla" Vampires for purposes of cards like Camarilla Segregation? thx, Carl [ quoted text not captured ]

Gretings, noble children of Caine! A while ago I called you all to arms to take part in the European Championships 1999. Well, the EC has taken place, and it was a huge success! :) I'm proud to tell you all that there were 59 players. This also means that it is a new world record! :) There have been players from USA, France, Spain, Italy, Hungary, Slovakia and Czech Republic. Really good attendance. There has also been an official representative of WotC, who signed all the plaques for places 1 to 5. I guess he was really impressed with the show that we made. And a show it was with the help of live-roleplayers. The heroic, new European Champion is Martin Weinmayer, Austria. A guy from the days of good old Jyhad. In a truly epic struggle he won the race for the Sword of the Justicar. A full report will follow shortly, with pictures and deck-lists. It will be displayed on our EC homepage. I will post a message here as soon as it's done. [ quoted text not captured ]

Well done you guys. Glad to see things went your way. anam & ian

On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 chandler_...@my-deja.com wrote: > Question 1: > Society of Leopold: if the vamp it's played upon has 0 blood and the > effect of the Society kicks in, what happens? Is he burned automatically > or does he has the option to burn 1 blood (and fail to do so, of course) > resulting in no effect? Society of Leopold means he has to burn 1 blood or be burned. At 0 blood, he attempts to burn 1 blood. No blood is there to burn, so he hasn't burned 1 blood. So he is burned. > Question 2: > Are Sabbat Vampires considered "Non-Camarilla" Vampires for purposes of > cards like Camarilla Segregation? > Yes. Non-Camarilla means "not Camarilla" and Sabbat are not members of the Camarilla. So yes, Camarilla Segregation will work against a player controlling Sabbat vampires. -- James Coupe

In article <383A9380...@wizards.com>, LSJ <vte...@wizards.com> wrote: > James Coupe wrote: > > > > On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 chandler_...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Question 1: > > > Society of Leopold: if the vamp it's played upon has 0 blood and the > > > effect of the Society kicks in, what happens? Is he burned automatically > > > or does he has the option to burn 1 blood (and fail to do so, of course) > > > resulting in no effect? > > > > Society of Leopold means he has to burn 1 blood or be burned. At 0 blood, > > he attempts to burn 1 blood. No blood is there to burn, so he hasn't > > burned 1 blood. So he is burned. And what about the sentence "it's methuselahs choice"? Is it redundant? [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 chandler_...@my-deja.com wrote: > > > Society of Leopold means he has to burn 1 blood or be burned. At 0 > blood, > > > he attempts to burn 1 blood. No blood is there to burn, so he > hasn't > > > burned 1 blood. So he is burned. > > And what about the sentence "it's methuselahs choice"? Is it redundant? Not at all. In this case, however, the Methuselah cannot choose to burn 1 blood - there is no blood to be burned. Their hand is forced into burning it. Consider a real life example: I make a deal with you. You pay me $100 or I kick you. If you do not have 100 dollars to give me, I kick you. You have the choice to do it still, but you are forced into receiving the kick because you cannot fulfill my protection racket payment. The choice is not restricted. You just cannot fulfill one element of the choice, so have to 'choose' the other, in this instance. -- James Coupe