Q: Camarilla title and Fall of the Camarilla

Hi all, I've been searching and can't find any explicit ruling on this. What happens to Camarilla titles when Fall of the Camarilla is played? We were confused over the weekend as to whether the titles go inert but are still on the vamps with them therefore preventing them going Anarch or if they are totally dropped and they are free to go Anarch. Our role playing arguments were that the princes are all still running around saying, "But I'm the prince! (in a whiny voice)" or they're all running around screaming, "Game Over Man! Game Over!" So are Camarilla/Sabbat titled vamps able to go Anarch without Anarch Seccession after their relevant sect has fallen? Thanks

> So are Camarilla/Sabbat titled vamps able to go Anarch without Anarch > Seccession after their relevant sect has fallen? > Fall of the Camarilla, Event Gehenna. Do not replace as long as this card is in play. Requires at least three other Gehenna cards in play. There is no Camarilla. ***** Any Camarilla vampire is considered Independent instead. ***** >From the Rulebook 10.1 Only Camarilla vampires can hold the Camarilla titles primogen, prince, justicar and Inner Circle member. Therefore, when Fall of the Camarilla is played all Camarilla vampires become independant, and thus are unable to hold the titles primogen, prince, justicar or inner circle. As they are now no longer titled, they are free to go anarch. As they meet the requirement set in the Rulebook 10.5 "An untitled non-anarch vampire can become an anarch as a +1 stealth action that costs 2 blood (or 1 blood if the controller controls at least 1 other ready anarch)." Likewise, they now meet the requirement for the cards that can turn vamps anarch - Galaric's Legacy, Seattle Commitee and Go Anarch Galaric`s Legacy, Master, Master. Trifle. Put this card on a ready non-titled, non-anarch vampire you control. The vampire with this card is considered anarch (and independent). If this vampire changes sects, burn this card. Seattle Committee, Master, Unique master. Put this card in play. During your master phase, you may tap this card to put an anarch counter on a ready non-titled, non- anarch vampire you control. A vampire with an anarch counter is considered anarch (and independent) even if this card leaves play. If a vampire with an anarch counter changes sects, burn the counter. Go Anarch, Action, Non-titled, Non-Anarch +1 stealth action. Requires a ready non-titled, non-anarch vampire. Put this card on the acting vampire and untap this vampire. This vampire is considered anarch (and independent). If this vampire changes sects, burn this card. --> J grail_pbem "at" hotmail.com

In message <1171240848....@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, Benird <ben...@gmail.com> writes: >Hi all, > >I've been searching and can't find any explicit ruling on this. > >What happens to Camarilla titles when Fall of the Camarilla is played? They go inert. If Fall of the Camarilla is burned later, the Camarilla is restored and they get their sect and title back. If, in the meantime, they've changed sect themselves, they'll stay that sect. If they've gained a new title, any inert title was permanently yielded at that point. e.g. if Arika becomes Liaison from Rise of the Nephtali while Fall of the Camarilla is in play, her Inner Circle title is permanently gone and isn't coming back. >We were confused over the weekend as to whether the titles go inert >but are still on the vamps with them therefore preventing them going >Anarch or if they are totally dropped and they are free to go Anarch. They're inert. Inert titles are only noticed by two things: gaining a new title (the inert one is dropped entirely), or the title being contested e.g. my copy of Francois Villon is Clan Impersonating Ravnos, and therefore has an inert Prince title. Your copy of Tarbaby Jack has a Writ of Acceptance and plays Praxis Seizure: Paris. Instead of contesting the title, Francois yields it immediately (because it's inert), and Tarbaby gets to be Prince of Paris immediately (without contesting). >Our role playing arguments were that the princes are all still running >around saying, "But I'm the prince! (in a whiny voice)" or they're all >running around screaming, "Game Over Man! Game Over!" It's worth ignoring any and all role-playing arguments for the purposes of working out what cards do. The RPG inspires cards - it doesn't set the rules once card text has been decided. >So are Camarilla/Sabbat titled vamps able to go Anarch without Anarch >Seccession after their relevant sect has fallen? Yes. Whether they'll want to rather depends on whether you think you'll be able to get rid of the Fall of the X card any time soon. (Ousting the player, Black Hand Ritual, a new card from Sword of Caine apparently deals with events, and so on.) -- James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR. EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

James Coupe schrieb: > In message <1171240848....@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, > Benird <ben...@gmail.com> writes: >> Hi all, >> >> I've been searching and can't find any explicit ruling on this. >> >> What happens to Camarilla titles when Fall of the Camarilla is played? > > They go inert. If Fall of the Camarilla is burned later, the Camarilla > is restored and they get their sect and title back. What happens if the vampire has gone Anarch in the meanwhile? -- johannes walch

[ quoted text not captured ] He remains independent and anarch.

Benird <ben...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > I've been searching and can't find any explicit ruling on this. > What happens to Camarilla titles when Fall of the Camarilla is played? > We were confused over the weekend as to whether the titles go inert > but are still on the vamps with them therefore preventing them going > Anarch or if they are totally dropped and they are free to go Anarch. So what you're saying is, Fall of the Camarilla actually got played in a game, and had a significant effect? Bravo! Note though, that if the Camarilla Falls, Mata Hari and Kemintiri-merged can still use minion cards that require Camarilla (or a Justicar, in Kemintiri's case). (And if, somehow, the even-less-playable Fall of the Sabbat is played, Gratiano still has the one-and-only Priscus vote)

Jozxyqk schrieb: > (And if, somehow, the even-less-playable Fall of the Sabbat is played, > Gratiano still has the one-and-only Priscus vote) While I searched the rules if this is actually true (yes it is, the Prisci-Block section doesn´t even mention Sabbat) I found some very interesting fact I (personally) did not know before so I thought I share: Section 10.2 "The regent counts as cardinal by cards and other effects, but has an additional vote as well." I knew this was stated on the Regent master card, but I did not know it was actually true for Sha-Ennu. Go Sha-Ennu! -- johannes walch

[ quoted text not captured ] It was quite and interesting game which caused the falls to have an impact for the player's grand prey. I was playing an anarch do nothing deck (I play a lot of them and I was just seeing if it would work) and my predator was playing an Anarch Gehenna deck, he'd fallen both the Sabbat and the Camarilla and had 3 Anarch revolts out. My prey was playing a Toreador title deck but I didn't see any votes so I'm not sure what it did. We weren't sure if inert titles still prevented you from going Anarch so we decided to keep it as the titles are still there preventing you since you are titled even if it has no effect until we got confirmation on this group. In the end I could easily oust my prey but his titles having no effective votes and therefore the Anarch revolts couldn't be burnned. (The was enough votes to keep them around). It turns out that our collective decision was incorrect but at least we've now got it clarrified and the same problem won't occur again. Thanks all for your input.